How is Superman able to use the cosmic treadmill?(Action Comics 992)

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GXrevs06

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#1  Edited By GXrevs06

I have read my fair share of Flash comics and I was always under the distinct impression that the treadmill operated by harnessing Flash's SF energy. After all, it's the SF itself that allows to speedsters to travel through the time stream. The treadmill simply acts as a sort of conduit and allows a specific time and date to be chosen. How is that Clark can tap into the speed force?

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KanyeCosby

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I’m really not sure. I’m probably wrong, but it could be that the cosmic treadmill runs mainly on kinetic energy, rather than that of the speed force itself.

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buttersdaman000

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#3  Edited By buttersdaman000

You just have to be fast enough to use the Cosmic Treadmill. It has nothing to do with the speed force.

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Thats pretty cool seeing Superman use the treadmill

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Marishtar

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I’m really not sure. I’m probably wrong, but it could be that the cosmic treadmill runs mainly on kinetic energy, rather than that of the speed force itself.

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KanyeCosby

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@buttersdaman000: How impressive of a feat would you say this is for Rebirth Superman?

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MightyKalEl

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@kanyecosby: Does one have to move FTL to time travel using cosmic treadmill? Do you know?

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KanyeCosby

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@mightykalel: I don’t know much about the cosmic treadmill, so I couldn’t say for certain, but I’m assuming yes.

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deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00

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You don't necessarily have to be connected to the speed force in order for the treadmill to work, you just have to be extremely fast.

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MightyKalEl

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#10  Edited By MightyKalEl
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Eto

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#11  Edited By Eto

You just have to be fast enough to use the Cosmic Treadmill. It has nothing to do with the speed force.

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blackagar

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Cuz he Fast AF

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Black_Arrow

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#13  Edited By Black_Arrow

@buttersdaman000 said:

You just have to be fast enough to use the Cosmic Treadmill. It has nothing to do with the speed force.

This. The whole you need the Speedforce thing (for Time travel) comes from the TV show.

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Lord_Spectrum

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#14  Edited By Lord_Spectrum

@mightykalel said:

@kanyecosby: Does one have to move FTL to time travel using cosmic treadmill? Do you know?

Not really, the reason Flashes use treadmill is that so they don't have go FTL or Lightspeed, or above their standart speed to accomplish same results as well as the machine allows them to travel through time with proper accurasy. Basically it doesn't matter how fast you run (even Mach 100 or below would be enough) since the kinetic energy of speedster (either Supes or Flash) is merely an activation method as well at the vibration generator, the main source of energy for that machine are cosmic rays cascading from Earth's atmoshpere. So it is not really a speed feat, anyone who can run faster than sound can activate it, since it is not the speed/kinetic force that powers it, it is just activating it basically like a light switch. The slowest character (to my knowledge) who activated it was Jay Garrick and he was running on his regular average speed and wasn't even straining (because higher speeds strain his body and can cause a heart attack, and death) which means he was operating on Mach 300 - 5000 speeds, since it is is regular speed he can use on consistent basis without straining his body too much.

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Lvenger

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I always understood that just pure speed was necessary to use the Cosmic Treadmill. Being connected to the Speed Force only comes from the CW show. Also it's a nice reference to the Silver Age comics when Superman & Superboy used to travel through time for adventures.

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#16  Edited By KrleAvenger

One thing a lot of people don't know is the fact that originally, the Speed Force wasn't a source of power for the Speedsters in the DCU. Actually it was, but we as a reader weren't aware of it because the Speed Force was never seen or mentioned at any point in time Pre-Crisis, until Max Mercury brought it up in Mark Waid's The Flash Vol. 2 #91, a comic that came out in June 1994. However Barry Allen first appeared in Showcase #4 (which came out in October 1956) and he didn't have his own serious until DC reintroduced the character in the original Flash series, Flash Vol. 1 #105 to be exact. That comic came out in March 1959. And the Cosmic Treadmill first appeared in Flash Vol. 1 #125 which came out in December 1961. THIRTY THREE AND A HALF YEARS AFTER THE CONCEPT OF THE SPEED FORCE WAS EVEN BROUGHT UP. And it wasn't even strait up introduced until Flash Vol. 2 #100 (April 1995).

Until Max Mercury showed up, there were no signs of any special source of energy or dimension that gives speedsters their power. They only had increased metabolism because of the accidents (Jay, Barry, Wally...). Or so they believed, until Max told them they are all powered by the Speed Force (even tho not all of them had a direct connection to it, not even Wally until issue 100). And yet, the Cosmic Treadmill was used by Barry numerous times even before Spider-man became a thing. In short, connection to the Speed Force has nothing to do with the Cosmic Treadmill. The only thing you need is super speed. Even Jay Garrick and Kid Flash Wally West activated the Treadmill by running, and neither of them were able to tap into the Speed Force. For the record, New Earth Superman and Earth 2 Superman were able to activate it as well in Crisis of Infinite Earths #11 with Jay and Wally, and they are not fast enough to tap into the Speed Force as stated by Superboy Prime in Infinite Crisis #6, and obviously they don't have any connection to it either.

While New 52 and Rebirth gives a little bit of a retcon (since Barry was aware that the Speed Force gives him and the others their speed, even tho originally he wasn't aware of it until he died in Crisis on Infinite Earths #8), I don't remember anyone retconning the original events by saying that you need connection to the Speed Force in order to use the Cosmic Treadmill to travel through time and dimensions (even tho Barry could vibrate through dimensions as show in everybody's favorite The Flash Vol. 1 #123 - Flash of Two Worlds comic so what the hell). Because if it happened in Rebirth then this instance doesn't make any sense. If nobody retconned anything then Superman should be capable of using it, since he is almost as fast if not as fast as Jay Garrick based on their race in DC's 1st: Superman - Flash #1 comic.

I'm still not quite sure why the Flashes even rely on Cosmic Treadmill in the first place, since pretty much anyone who showed the ability to tap into the Speed Force also showed the ability to time travel. Jay Garrick did that at least twice (in both of those instances he was amped by Black Adam's speed). Max Mercury did that probably more times than any other speedster in DC. Barry Allen, Wally West, too many instances to name. All without Cosmic Treadmill. So like what the hell? My guess is that they are afraid to tap into the Speed Force because they don't want to get stuck there and, well die. Maybe someone explained why they rely on Cosmic Treadmill instead but I don't remember that ever happening.

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Life_Without_Progress

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@krleavenger: ... Wait, most people didn't know that The Speed Force wasn't a thing until the "Terminal Velocity" arc? Since WHEN?

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Lord_Spectrum

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#19  Edited By Lord_Spectrum

@krleavenger said:

I'm still not quite sure why the Flashes even rely on Cosmic Treadmill in the first place, since pretty much anyone who showed the ability to tap into the Speed Force also showed the ability to use time travel. Jay Garrick did that at least twice (in both of those instances he was amped by Black Adam's speed). Max Mercury did that probably more times than any other speedster in DC. Barry Allen, Wally West, too many instances to name. All without Cosmic Treadmill. So like what the hell? My guess is that they are afraid to tap into the Speed Force because they don't want to get stuck there and, well die. Maybe someone explained why they rely on time travel instead but I don't remember that ever happening.

The answer is simple, using CT allows them to time travel more precisely, as well as doesn't tax their speed since they don't need to move fast to travel through time with it even Jay while running at average speeds without straining his body could activate it, since it is not speed which powers the treadmill, but the cosmic rays. Basically they can move at speed around mach 5000 (even below the speed of sound if they want) and handilly time travel with proper precision. It is basically the econom version of their time travel abilities.

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In fact the slowest character to activate the treadmill is the goddamn Batman in Metal tie-in Red Death with his Batmobile upgraded with Cosmic Treadmill technology while driving below the speed of sound and he broke the speed force barrier (which is harder to break than Time barrier) and used Barry so that he could steal his connection of SF, since he couldn't force SF to give him power, the main reason he chained Barry on top of batmobile.

The speed is needed for different reason, it was stated in Blue Beetle #13 by Terri Magnus (Flash of the Future, has Speed Force powers, slower than Mach 10.000, can't time travel on her own speed) that super speed is used to super-speed treadmill to maximum chronosity (Batman did the same with below speed of sound batmobile :D), and the cosmic rays (or other form of energy, in this instance it was Blue Beetle's scarab) push the tachyon level to the limit, which creates high-frequency vibrations inside them and makes them travel through time.

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Sly_141

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#20  Edited By Sly_141

He fast af boi.

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@lord_spectrum:

The answer is simple, using CT allows them to time travel more precisely, as well as doesn't tax their speed since they don't need to move fast to travel through time with it even Jay while running at average speeds without straining his body could activate it, since it is not speed which powers the treadmill, but the cosmic rays. Basically they can move at speed around mach 5000 (even below the speed of sound if they want) and handilly time travel with proper precision. It is basically the econom version of their time travel abilities.

That's a pretty logical yet weird explanation to be honest. Not only most speedsters can casually break the light barrier but they had no problem travelling through time back to the exact same day they wanted to. Hell even Jay Garrick had no problem coming back to the right time period in JSA Vol. 1 #22 (although he amped his speed with Adam's). Honestly, the only reason why it is useful (in my opinion at least) is because some speedsters can't tap into the Speed Force without amps. That being Jay Garrick.

In fact the slowest character to activate the treadmill is the goddamn Batman in Metal tie-in Red Death with his Batmobile upgraded with Cosmic Treadmill technology while driving below the speed of sound and he broke the speed force barrier (which is harder to break than Time barrier) and used Barry so that he could steal his connection of SF, since he couldn't force SF to give him power, the main reason he chained Barry on top of batmobile.

I am not a fan of using instances that happened in an alternate reality, but I guess this kinda gives people the idea of how much speed is (not) required for the treadmill to be used.

The speed is needed for different reason, it was stated in Blue Beetle #13 by Terri Magnus (Flash of the Future, has Speed Force powers, slower than Mach 10.000, can't time travel on her own speed) that super speed is used to super-speed treadmill to maximum chronosity (Batman did the same with below speed of sound batmobile :D), and the cosmic rays (or other form of energy, in this instance it was Blue Beetle's scarab) push the tachyon level to the limit, which creates high-frequency vibrations inside them and makes them travel through time.

I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for that.

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Lord_Spectrum

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@krleavenger:

That's a pretty logical yet weird explanation to be honest.

True. Basically if the speedster is below MFTL or lazy as hell, he/she can use the treadmill. :D

Not only most speedsters can casually break the light barrier but they had no problem travelling through time back to the exact same day they wanted to. Hell even Jay Garrick had no problem coming back to the right time period in JSA Vol. 1 #22 (although he amped his speed with Adam's).

I agree. But the problem with Jay is that travelling near-lightspeed/lighspeed/FTL causes huge strain to his body and can cause a heart attack and death. The others have a risk to get sucked to Speed Force if they don't have a lightning rod, so still risky in both ways.

But as stated previously CT is just used for precision and is more safer to use, rememmber when Wally first time travelled he didn't know how to do that properly with precision he couldn't get back to his needed time and was constantly travelling through different periods of DC timeline till he got to present.

Honestly, the only reason why it is useful (in my opinion at least) is because some speedsters can't tap into the Speed Force without amps.

More or less, but logically speaking it is more usefull because it is safer, doesn't require straining from person or any high-level insane speed to perform time travel (somewhat faster than sound is enough IMO), since kinetic energy just activates the machine's chronosity and the energy inside treadmill does the main job (all that tachyon mumbo jumbo).

That being Jay Garrick.

He is a different case though, CT is usefull for him, because it doesn't even strain his body in slightest, thus he can travel through time while running at Mach speeds and way way below lightspeed, since the cosmic rays power the time travelling unlike their standart SF based time travel.

I am not a fan of using instances that happened in an alternate reality, but I guess this kinda gives people the idea of how much speed is (not) required for the treadmill to be used.

Same. But the point here is that Speed Force and timelines work the same way everywhere in DC, since they are multiversal constants and even in universes such as these those constants remain the same way, Speed Force literally flows through entirety of DC multiverse, Dark Multiverse is merely a backstage/shadow of the known prime multiverse, it still follows the same rules but is just a darker/more evil place, so basically Speed Force from let's say Earth 2 would still be the same as Speed Force from Prime Earth. Laws of SF remain the same no matter the universe or timeline, unless obviously those laws were changed due to some plot reason.

I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for that.

You are welcome. ^_^

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GXrevs06

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#23  Edited By GXrevs06

@black_arrow said:
@buttersdaman000 said:

You just have to be fast enough to use the Cosmic Treadmill. It has nothing to do with the speed force.

This. The whole you need the Speedforce thing (for Time travel) comes from the TV show.

But Flash has used the speedforce for time travel numerous times over the years. The CT just allows him to do it with precision. Time Travel is a speed force abilitiy

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Black_Arrow

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@gxrevs06 said:
@black_arrow said:
@buttersdaman000 said:

You just have to be fast enough to use the Cosmic Treadmill. It has nothing to do with the speed force.

This. The whole you need the Speedforce thing (for Time travel) comes from the TV show.

But Flash has used the speedforce for time travel numerous times over the years. The CT just allows him to do it with precision. Time Travel is a speed force abilitiy

The Flash uses the Speedforce for time travel in the sense that the Speedforce gives him the speed necessary to break the time barrier. If any other character had the speed necessary to break the time barrier they could also travel through time.

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KrleAvenger

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@lord_spectrum:

I agree. But the problem with Jay is that travelling near-lightspeed/lighspeed/FTL causes huge strain to his body and can cause a heart attack and death. The others have a risk to get sucked to Speed Force if they don't have a lightning rod, so still risky in both ways.

I know that. And I mentioned that being a possibility on my first post.

But as stated previously CT is just used for precision and is more safer to use, rememmber when Wally first time travelled he didn't know how to do that properly with precision he couldn't get back to his needed time and was constantly travelling through different periods of DC timeline till he got to present.

Are you talking about the events of Race Against Time? I remember that. While there are a lot of instances where the speedsters came back to their own timeline or visited the timeline they wanted on their first try by themselves (like Wally West did in Flash Vol. 2 #95 after the events of issue 0) there are still a lot of inconsistencies with Time Travel, like that story in particular. So I guess that can also be the reason for using the treadmill instead. Although it would be better if someone destroys it. That way it will be risky and more interesting.

He is a different case though, CT is usefull for him, because it doesn't even strain his body in slightest, thus he can travel through time while running at Mach speeds and way way below lightspeed, since the cosmic rays power the time travelling unlike their standart SF based time travel.

Yeah I kinda said that by stating that the Treadmill is useful for him.

Same. But the point here is that Speed Force and timelines work the same way everywhere in DC, since they are multiversal constants and even in universes such as these those constants remain the same way, Speed Force literally flows through entirety of DC multiverse, Dark Multiverse is merely a backstage/shadow of the known prime multiverse, it still follows the same rules but is just a darker/more evil place, so basically Speed Force from let's say Earth 2 would still be the same as Speed Force from Prime Earth. Laws of SF remain the same no matter the universe or timeline, unless obviously those laws were changed due to some plot reason.

True (it has been shown multiple times yes, without PIS and WIS) but the problem with stories that take place in an alternate reality is, most writers have freedom to do anything without affecting the main continuity, and therefor can disregard facts from the main DC Universe despite the fact that some concepts they use affect the entire Multiverse, like the Speed Force. Therefor, writers can find themselves in a situation where their stories are still full of WIS because of the fact that they are not aware of the fact that some things they are using in their stories can't be changed because same rules apply to other realities as well. So because of that, we can disregard those stories/statements/instances if they contradict information already provided to us from non retconned issues set in the main continuity. Not saying that one in particular contradicts anything. I'm talking about alternate realities overall.

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#26  Edited By KrleAvenger

@black_arrow: Entering the Speed Force requires MFTL travel, but it also gives you time traveling powers. It is not the same as when someone who does not have connection to the Speed Force moves fast enough to break the time barrier. For example, when Wally was travelling back into his own time stream in The Flash #95 - Terminal Velocity Mach One: The Dead Yet Live, he was also able to see his future clearly like he is watching a movie while running back into his own time period. That is not something anyone who just has enough speed to break the time barrier can do. And it has been stated multiple times that speedsters' ability to time travel and/or manipulate time comes directly from the Speed Force, instead of just FTL speed given to them by the Speed Force.

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Supermanforever

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#27  Edited By Supermanforever

Dont think you need conection to speed force to use Cosmic treadmill. I think beeing fast enough is fine. I believe in flashpoint barry said Superman could tap into time travel or whatever that was, dont remember exaclty.

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Lord_Spectrum

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#28  Edited By Lord_Spectrum

@krleavenger:

I know that. And I mentioned that being a possibility on my first post.

Ahhhh......i see..

Are you talking about the events of Race Against Time? I remember that. While there are a lot of instances where the speedsters came back to their own timeline or visited the timeline they wanted on their first try by themselves (like Wally West did in Flash Vol. 2 #95 after the events of issue 0) there are still a lot of inconsistencies with Time Travel, like that story in particular.

Yep. Time travel is huge mess though. And to be fair Wally has somewhat mastered time travelling, Barry on the other hand is still rather new to it though (thus he uses the treadmill more often than Wally), but when it comes to time travel Eobard beats them all hands down, he is literally leagues above them in this regard.

So I guess that can also be the reason for using the treadmill instead. Although it would be better if someone destroys it. That way it will be risky and more interesting.

True dat.

But it will not end well, might as well create another Hunter Zolomon....

Yeah I kinda said that by stating that the Treadmill is useful for him.

I see. :)

True (it has been shown multiple times yes, without PIS and WIS) but the problem with stories that take place in an alternate reality is, most writers have freedom to do anything without affecting the main continuity,

True, but when they do that, we actually see the noticeable differences or they get outright stated how stuff works there, for example in recent Nightwing: New World Order (an elseworld story), Dick used tech that produced specific energy beyond EM spectrum and it bypassed John Stewart's defences, in cannon GL comics, energies beyond EM spectrum don't do that to GLs.

and therefor can disregard facts from the main DC Universe despite the fact that some concepts they use affect the entire Multiverse, like the Speed Force. Therefor, writers can find themselves in a situation where their stories are still full of WIS because of the fact that they are not aware of the fact that some things they are using in their stories can't be changed because same rules apply to other realities as well. So because of that, we can disregard those stories/statements/instances if they contradict information already provided to us from non retconned issues set in the main continuity.

Somewhat true, but as mentioned previously we actually see the noticeable differences when such cases happen, so far none of that was presented or stated in that Metal tie-in overall. SF was still SF, there is only Speed Force, one place where all who break the barrier go, no matter the universe or timeline, that law is constant, plus Bats couldn't force SF to connect with him which is also somewhat true with cannon comics, so far it seemed just your standart SF rules.

The only iffy thing with it is that he drived below speed of sound to activate the treadmill, which so far didn't happen till Terri Magnus, she is the slowest of the Flashes featwise, and she didn't even try that hard to do so and was clearly below the speed of sound (scans in previous posts), so that is a point more or less as well. Overall you don't need to be insanely fast to activate it, any average speedster pretty much can do that IMO.

So because of that, we can disregard those stories/statements/instances if they contradict information already provided to us from non retconned issues set in the main continuity.

I agree and disagree at the same time. While what you say is right when alt reality disregards already estabilished laws (ala Dick and Green Lantern), but when it doesn't showcase such thing, then the instance is usable enough.

And given that we don't really argue about some strength feats or biological organisms (characters having different powers in different realities and etc... which is always the case with alt realities) or laws of physics (some alt realities have different laws than cannon reality) from those universes, we argue about the Laws of Speed Force across the entirety of Multiverse, and so far I didn't notice any contradicting statement or scan showcasing conradiction to cannon instances of SF, thus Speed Force's laws still remain a multiversal constant, untill we see a contradiction.

But to be fair, i'll rather ignore this instance for a while, since Metal and its tie-ins haven't finished yet, i suggest to return to that later, when Metal with all its tie-ins end so we can properly analyze whether they screwed with SF's laws or not, if yes the instance is ignored, if not...well you know the rest.

Not saying that one in particular contradicts anything. I'm talking about alternate realities overall.

Understandable. Though i gave my point of view above, thus no repetitiveness.

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@lord_spectrum:

Yep. Time travel is huge mess though. And to be fair Wally has somewhat mastered time travelling, Barry on the other hand is still rather new to it though (thus he uses the treadmill more often than Wally), but when it comes to time travel Eobard beats them all hands down, he is literally leagues above them in this regard.

It's funny how New 52 Barry Allen is more impressive than Post-Crisis Barry when it comes to time travel. Post-Crisis Barry has trouble travelling to certain points in time while New 52 Barry can repair drastic damage to the timeline and the Speed Force even tho he has zero experience. Also yeah, Eobard is the most skilled time traveler. He is a genius after all.

True dat.

But it will not end well, might as well create another Hunter Zolomon....

Or bring back the original.

True, but when they do that, we actually see the noticeable differences or they get outright stated how stuff works there, for example in recent Nightwing: New World Order (an elseworld story), Dick used tech that produced specific energy beyond EM spectrum and it bypassed John Stewart's defences, in cannon GL comics, energies beyond EM spectrum don't do that to GLs.

LOL.

I'm not gonna reply to the rest because the only thing I would say is alright/ok.

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Lord_Spectrum

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@krleavenger:

It's funny how New 52 Barry Allen is more impressive than Post-Crisis Barry when it comes to time travel. Post-Crisis Barry has trouble travelling to certain points in time while New 52 Barry can repair drastic damage to the timeline and the Speed Force even tho he has zero experience.

True dat.

Even though he has 10 years of less experience but does some insane stuff, not that i have a problem with that, he might as well unconsiously rememmber he had some experience with time related abilities, so that may be the case.

Also yeah, Eobard is the most skilled time traveler. He is a genius after all.

Yep and given that Barry lost 10 years of experience, while Eobard didn't and is one complex time paradox, he has all his memories, all the experience and the same body, thus his speed remained the same, while Barry because of that 10 year gap lost experience, and as we know more experience with SF = more faster you become, thus Barry became slower and Eobard gained huge advantage, once his equal now his superior. And to be fair that should stay that way for a while till Barry gains more experience and skills to finally match Eobard. It would finally force Barry to train with SF to find new creative ways of using his powers.

Or bring back the original.

I agree.

And given that because of Dr. M messing with time, all of the bad things that happened in his life which defined him are now erased, he can just regain the memories of his post-crisis self, regain his powers, but in the still fail changing what would happen, with good writer and artist, it would be tragic and sad, and as bonus it would be a good story.

LOL.

I'm not gonna reply to the rest because the only thing I would say is alright/ok.

Understandable, this was fun though, arguing the concepts and how they work within those universe is much more interesting than another battle forum debate.

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@lord_spectrum:

Even though he has 10 years of less experience but does some insane stuff, not that i have a problem with that, he might as well unconsiously rememmber he had some experience with time related abilities, so that may be the case.

Interesting theory.

Yep and given that Barry lost 10 years of experience, while Eobard didn't and is one complex time paradox, he has all his memories, all the experience and the same body, thus his speed remained the same, while Barry because of that 10 year gap lost experience, and as we know more experience with SF = more faster you become, thus Barry became slower and Eobard gained huge advantage, once his equal now his superior. And to be fair that should stay that way for a while till Barry gains more experience and skills to finally match Eobard. It would finally force Barry to train with SF to find new creative ways of using his powers.

Like the gab between their power wasn't large enough LOL.

I agree.

And given that because of Dr. M messing with time, all of the bad things that happened in his life which defined him are now erased, he can just regain the memories of his post-crisis self, regain his powers, but in the still fail changing what would happen, with good writer and artist, it would be tragic and sad, and as bonus it would be a good story.

Not a lot of writers can make it look good IMO.

Understandable, this was fun though, arguing the concepts and how they work within those universe is much more interesting than another battle forum debate.

Ugh, I gave up on that forum two months ago. Unfortunately I still have to read it in order to post them on the Daily Debater. So yeah, it's way better.

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Lord_Spectrum

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#32  Edited By Lord_Spectrum

@krleavenger:

Interesting theory.

Well, that's the way i see it, the only logical conclusion i could come up with.

Like the gab between their power wasn't large enough LOL.

It should be large, unlike Barry, Thawne was studying SF all the time, he knows all pros and cons of Speed Force, he is walking SF encyclopedia, the guy even created his own variation of Speed Force, the Negative SF, though IMO it was useless and rather a cheap concept, but it could have gotten some standing point if it acted as the multiversal constant of the Dark Multiverse from Metal event but that's just a dream now, but anyways Eobard by default deserves his status as the better one he worked hard as hell to gain all of that unlike Barry who was somehow matching him time and time again...., and honestly the power gap should stay that way for a while till Barry trains and studies SF and becomes competent enough with it to finally challenge Thawne as his equal (no need of making Barry superior it would somewhat cheapen the concept of his main bad guy).

Not a lot of writers can make it look good IMO.

True dat.

The question is who is competent enough to pull it off?

Ugh, I gave up on that forum two months ago.

That's totally understandable.

Unfortunately I still have to read it in order to post them on the Daily Debater.

You mean you read WALLS OF TEXTS for that? Wow.......now that's admirable.

So yeah, it's way better.

Cool. :)

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KrleAvenger

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@lord_spectrum:

It should be large, unlike Barry, Thawne was studying SF all the time, he knows all pros and cons of Speed Force, he is walking SF encyclopedia, the guy even created his own variation of Speed Force, the Negative SF, though IMO it was useless and rather a cheap concept, but it could have gotten some standing point if it acted as the multiversal constant of the Dark Multiverse from Metal event but that's just a dream now, but anyways Eobard by default deserves his status as the better one he worked hard as hell to gain all of that unlike Barry who was somehow matching him time and time again...., and honestly the power gap should stay that way for a while till Barry trains and studies SF and becomes competent enough with it to finally challenge Thawne as his equal (no need of making Barry superior it would somewhat cheapen the concept of his main bad guy).

Yes of course.

The question is who is competent enough to pull it off?

Geoff Johns I think.

You mean you read WALLS OF TEXTS for that? Wow.......now that's admirable.

It's tedious, but thanks. Anyway, we are kinda going off topic here.

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TheWatcherKing

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#34  Edited By TheWatcherKing

You just have to have genuine superspeed to use it.

@mightykalel said:

@kanyecosby: Does one have to move FTL to time travel using cosmic treadmill? Do you know?

No, I recall Jay Garrick,Jessie Quick, and Bart Allen using it once and none of them were FTL at the time.

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@buttersdaman000 said:

You just have to be fast enough to use the Cosmic Treadmill. It has nothing to do with the speed force.

This. The whole you need the Speedforce thing (for Time travel) comes from the TV show.

@lvenger said:

I always understood that just pure speed was necessary to use the Cosmic Treadmill. Being connected to the Speed Force only comes from the CW show. Also it's a nice reference to the Silver Age comics when Superman & Superboy used to travel through time for adventures.

When was that ever stated in the flash?

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YouSmokeWeed

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Guess Supes speed is just as good as Barry's, now no one can argue Flash > Supes