How fast is Superman (DCEU)?

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buildhare

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Just because there seems to be a lack of consensus now, how fast is he?

This guy
This guy

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webinyoureye11

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Here’s a calc that puts his travel speed at > Mach 3000

the world engine flight was at least Mach 900 imo

and he’s at least Mach 22 just going by the red aura he has in some of his flights

as for combat speed, that’s a whole other subject

by feats, blitzing casual bullet timers

with guidebooks and scaling, faster than light

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TheKinfing

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In combat? Easily Hypersonic, somewhere in the low-mid double digit mach.

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RBT

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I think almost everyone agrees that he's at least supersonic. Possibly even hypersonic.

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CCThor

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A little below dceu flash.

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Worldofthunder

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On-screen by feats: casually hypersonic in every area and has triple digit mach flight speed. And fast enough to make MCU fans salty.

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macleen

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On-screen by feats: casually hypersonic in every area and has triple digit mach flight speed. And fast enough to make MCU fans salty.

lol and in complete denial

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deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15

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In combat? Easily Hypersonic, somewhere in the low-mid double digit mach.

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ANTHP2000

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He's at least as fast as Wonder Woman in combat and he's about as fast as the Flash in travel speed, so pretty exceptionally fast.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@anthp2000: he’s much much faster than WW in combat.

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ANTHP2000

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rogueshadow

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#12  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

He has extremely OP speed. Far faster than the usual suspects he's put against in my opinion. That Diana didn't even have a clue what was going on when he fought Barry says it all. This is a woman who can slap mach 2.5 bullets out of the air for fun, by all logic, Diana should be a couple of mach higher than that when going all out given how easily she's accomplished her feats. Just based on that Clark would have to be massively hypersonic.

Factor in how heavily implied it is that he can fly as fast as Barry can run at the end of JL, and that he was able to perceive Barry running in an intense situation where he'd be going all out to save his team, his combat, travel and reaction-speeds are definitely through the roof.

FOX Silver Surfer, Routh Superman and Dr. Manhattan (based on some of the things he states) are probably some CBM character in recent(ish) years I can think of that are faster.

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jashugan

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Don't entertain vs battles wiki or people that post them.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@anthp2000: him and Flash interacted for about 30 seconds in their perspective before WW even knew it happened. Superman was in combat mode when that occurred.

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deltahuman

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#15  Edited By deltahuman

Top calculated speed in MoS was Mach 3000.

I don't think he has surpassed that in the subsequent movies.

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xzone

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MarvelandDCfan24

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Hypersonic if you say otherwise your just a hater

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ANTHP2000

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@anthp2000: him and Flash interacted for about 30 seconds in their perspective before WW even knew it happened. Superman was in combat mode when that occurred.

Are you talking about when she was falling? Because she wasn't in combat mode.

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Ready_4_Madness

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#19  Edited By Ready_4_Madness

@anthp2000: if she was even close to Superman’s speed, she would at least be able to move her limbs in somewhat comparable speed. Not only that when she tried to slam her brackets together and Superman dashed forward, their was nothing she can do because of the gap in speed. She’s not comparable in any category, she only surpasses him in skill which doesn’t matter.

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ANTHP2000

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@anthp2000: if she was even close to Superman’s speed, she would at least be able to move her limbs in somewhat comparable speed. Not only that when she tried to slam her brackets together and Superman dashed forward, their was nothing she can do because of the gap in speed. She’s not comparable in any category, she only surpasses him in skill which doesn’t matter.

No, this is just trying to oversell Superman as always. When someone if falling, it's not combat speed, she never tried to move her limbs in "comparable speeds" not even close.

As for the other instance, I don't think we've seen enough from this to suggest he's faster than her based on it. She specifically stated how she didn't want to fight him plenty of times in the scene, and at that very moment she said "please don't make me do this", while he was pissed off.

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deltahuman

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@xzone:

Oh yeah.. It's Mach 3000.

The Canadian Arctic to Mouth Kilimanjaro flight in MoS.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@anthp2000: loool just because she doesn’t want to fight it doesn’t mean she has to be slower than him combat, Superman didn’t want to fight Batman but was still fast enough to react to everything he was dishing out. I don’t know how to prove to you that Superman is much faster, his scene with Flash is enough evidence for me. WW hasn’t done anything remotely close to that, and she was fairly even with Steppenwolf in combat speed, Clark saw this guy in slow motion and fought him with a smile on his face.

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KrleAvenger

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#23  Edited By KrleAvenger

Traveling speed wise, not sure. Like hypersonic or something. It's pretty decent. Reaction time speed wise, I guess supersonic. Not sure tho because I don't remember him reacting a lot, mostly just flat out moving and fighting. Combat speed wise, unless I missed something from MoS and BvS, there is not enough evidence or source material for us to known exactly how fast he is. Although I haven't seen anything from him to prove his combat/movements speed is above sound level. Or even on that level.

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mega6382

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@ccthor said:

A little below dceu flash.

Not really, the jury is still out on that, cause they raced at the end and we don't have the results yet.

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mega6382

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@anthp2000: him and Flash interacted for about 30 seconds in their perspective before WW even knew it happened. Superman was in combat mode when that occurred.

true

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MethoKi

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Mach 90 at best.

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TheKinfing

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Traveling speed wise, not sure. Like hypersonic or something. It's pretty decent. Reaction time speed wise, I guess supersonic. Not sure tho because I don't remember him reacting a lot, mostly just flat out moving and fighting. Combat speed wise, unless I missed something from MoS and BvS, there is not enough evidence or source material for us to known exactly how fast he is. Although I haven't seen anything from him to prove his combat/movements speed is above sound level. Or even on that level.

1) His fight with Zod, they where making sonic booms while fighting.

2) His fight with Flash.

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KrleAvenger

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@thekinfing:

1) His fight with Zod, they where making sonic booms while fighting.

Pretty sure they were making sonic booms with blows, and weren't actually fighting at those speeds.

2) His fight with Flash.

We have no idea how fast they were moving in that fight. No sonic booms were broken there so no evidence to prove they were faster than sound. And the reason why it is incredibly overhyped and not coming close to being as impressive is because while everything else was kinda frozen, Barry and Clark were still moving in slow motion. I can move my head to the side in portion of a second, and Clark needed several seconds to do it from our perspective. And when he threw Diana to the side and she was flying, speed of her being thrown and Barry's and Clark's own speed weren't that far apart. People say how Diana was frozen to him but in truth, we never see that. We just see him being frozen compared to Barry, and then just moving his head to the side in slow motion from our perspective and then threw them to the side. As far as we know, if we were to look at it with human perception, Clark just moved his head pretty quickly and threw Diana and everyone to the side. We never see Diana herself failing to react to Clark or overall being frozen to him, because she wasn't even trying to move when he did. She was thrown and wasn't in control of her own movement.

And again, we don't see how fast Flash was moving and again, they were still in slow motion. It's not like they were moving at normal speed even when everything seems slower. They were moving pretty fast but we don't know how much because we have nothing to compare it to nor do we have measurements. To be perfectly honest, that feat is as overhyped as Doctor Manhattan being Multiversal.

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TheKinfing

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#29  Edited By TheKinfing

@krleavenger: It seems you're overanalyzing the feat to, the intent seemed clear enough. Superman & Flash where fast enough to have a decently long fight while all the members of the JL, including Supersonic+ Diana where nigh frozen in place.

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KrleAvenger

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@thekinfing: You call it over-analyzing on my part. That's respectable. I call it oversimplification on Vine's part. We never see anyone being frozen to him due to their own lack of speed. Ironically, even after they were thrown and started flying, which isn't really that fast, they still weren't frozen. Clark and Barry were just a little bit faster. That's my point. And I have yet to actually see why Diana is that fast.

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webinyoureye11

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KrleAvenger

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@webinyoureye11: Well Clark should be faster than Diana obviously. But saying she's a statue to him and that she would never react to him? That fight doesn't really prove it. At best you can say Clark can move his head to the side before Diana can react. We never see her failing to move. She was held in place by him, he moved his head and he threw her. She had no control over herself.

Clark hasn't done anything to prove Diana can be frozen to him. He is just faster than her by a noticeable margin.

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webinyoureye11

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@webinyoureye11: Well Clark should be faster than Diana obviously. But saying she's a statue to him and that she would never react to him? That fight doesn't really prove it. At best you can say Clark can move his head to the side before Diana can react. We never see her failing to move. She was held in place by him, he moved his head and he threw her. She had no control over herself.

Clark hasn't done anything to prove Diana can be frozen to him. He is just faster than her by a noticeable margin.

I wasn’t saying she is frozen, you can see in my gif she’s not frozen while he’s blitzing. But she did block heat vision

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Which went to space in about 3 seconds of screen time making that Mach 874 at least.

Superman blitzed her from a similar distance.

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SupremeGeneration

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From this CaV of mine:

Is Superman THAT Fast?

Viners... just keep an open mind. I know most of you love your oh-so precious S T A T U E making Kryptonian so much that he could never ever lose a battle and he'd stomp TOAA but seriously, read this carefully.

This doesn't seem to be the case. If he's WW level with the amp (and given his best feat is identical to hers, it seems he is) and the hurricane isn't helping, the boost from the water needs to be gigantic. Because without it he's in exactly the same spot as she was when she had to fight Clark;

No Caption Provided

If and when these two fight it's not going to be close.

Oh well here goes my chance to fight against the statue-force meme. Gosh I was dreading this...

  • For starters, Diana is suspended in the air unable to move. The idea that Clark and Barry made a casual bullet timer frozen/a statue is wrong at it's core. You and I, BuildHare, have apparently discussed this at length in the past. You seemed convinced that she could move her arms or head in the air and since given that I didn't respond, I became convinced as well. However, there's actually a much more reliable and, in my opinion, plausible explanation. The reason she couldn't move isn't because she was made a statue by two speedsters (considering she has moved at Flash level speed in the past; third bullet point) but because she had just been thrown by freaking Superman. The strength at which he could throw anyone would likely be enough to make sure they can't move in mid-air, especially when the camera is going in super slow-motion (last bullet point)
    • Let's be completely honest here, if you replace Diana being thrown with Barry being thrown, he'd also be frozen. The moment he pushed Clark and he lost his footing, he was no longer moving at high speeds. Being thrown by Superman is something no one ever bothered to apply. In reality, it's a big factor. Being unable to move not just because you're in mid-air but because the throw is that freaking strong is extremely important to note.
  • Combat speed =/= reaction speed. Just because Diana is capable of deflecting all those bullets in the hostage scene doesn't mean that her combat speed is up to par. We clearly see this in the very same hostage situation, where she displays amazing reactions but iffy combat speed (for a high tier). One could argue holding back because humans but there was a timer on the bomb and multiple hostages, there's no way in hell she was going slower than damn near her absolute best.
  • Wonder Woman has technically shown Flash-level speed in the past. When he gave her back the sword, she moved her fingers to grab it. I've seen the argument that the sword wasn't moving at Flash-level speed, but we clearly see her falling at the same rate she was before Barry touched the sword, and we see the sword moving way faster than the usual slo-mo that everything else was at. Furthermore, we're still in Barry's perspective even shortly after she grabs the sword.
  • People have also tried to argue in the past that the fight isn't in a speedster's perspective, but that the camera itself was in slow-motion due to facial expressions also being in what appears to be in slow motion. Superman and Flash's movements did appear to be moving in some slow motion, for example:
No Caption Provided

Look at that. From the throwing of the three heroes to the punch against Barry, Clark most certainly (visually) moves faster than that when the camera isn't in slow motion. To also further my first bullet point using this GIF you'll note that immediately after letting go of Diana, she's still moving. If he'd made her a genuine statue, she would've been frozen the moment he let go of her. Furthermore, even in the GIF you posted, Aquaman (who he threw with one arm just like he did Diana) is actually moving just ever slightly. So is Diana, but a little less than Arthur. Given that Diana's reacted at actual Flash-level in the past, it makes much more sense that the camera was simply in slow-motion. Another instance to further showcase this, let's look at how fast Superman turns his head:

No Caption Provided

For reference, I deleted all the scenes with Barry in them because it got annoying and it was hard to tell when the GIF started otherwise. Anyways if we look at the GIF, we realize how freaking long it took Superman to turn his head. He's definitely not trying to intimidate Barry, he could sense heartbeats as Cyborg pointed out to Arthur, he knew Barry was already scared. The only reason Superman would be turning his head that freaking slow would be if the camera were in slow-motion, which I hopefully proved it was.

Ultimately, while the feat is impressive, the Vine tends to overrate it a duck ton. What Diana would need in order to move is combat speed, not reaction speed, and given that her combat speed in that same movie wasn't anything impressive, even if Clark had made that a statue, it wouldn't have been as impressive as people say it is. Given that his throwing her meant she couldn't move if she wanted to, he actually didn't make her frozen (in the way everyone implies), especially given that she's reacted at Flash-level speeds before. Lastly, the feat is diminished when you realize that the camera was going in slo mo.

Not sure why I even typed that out since we established that Thor would be Percy's main opponent... Still important for the voters to note and I spent literally all of a day typing and thinking that out. It goes to show that Superman can be a bit overrated. He's definitely fast but between being nowhere near as fast as people think he is and Percy being WAYfaster than the Diana that Superman fought (to the point where it's almost laughable given she wasn't in 'God Mode'), I think Percy should be able to contend with Superman just fine. Worst case scenario, he's slightly slower, but I shall maintain that he's not supremely outclassed.

==================================================================================

I didn't give a clear number, but Clark never made a supersonic character frozen (especially one that had already moved near Flash level speeds) and the camera was in so much slow motion that we don't know squat about the actual speed.

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SupremeGeneration

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Ready_4_Madness

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@supremegeneration: even if Wonder Woman was stuck in air her speed still isn’t comparable, her and Steppenwolf were basically equals in the combat speed department, Superman saw Steppenwolf in slow motion.

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ANTHP2000

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@anthp2000: @rogueshadow: @ready_4_madness:

The above post might interest you.

Interesting. I had a discussion regarding the matter a while ago, and my stance uasnr changed. I don't think we've seen enough from Superman to put him above Wonder Woman combat speed-wise, which in turn would only make him supersonic-low hypersonic. To me, the movie clearly portrayed them as equally capable, but ever since them fans have been overhyping him.

That said, I disgaree with the distinction between combat and reaction speed, strictly on Diana and Clark's cases, as we've seen them blitzing people as well as moving their entire bodies around in extreme speeds.

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mega6382

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#39  Edited By mega6382

He has super-speed, its a speed that's named after him, that should give you some idea.

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rem

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#40  Edited By rem

@anthp2000 said:
@ready_4_madness said:

@anthp2000: if she was even close to Superman’s speed, she would at least be able to move her limbs in somewhat comparable speed. Not only that when she tried to slam her brackets together and Superman dashed forward, their was nothing she can do because of the gap in speed. She’s not comparable in any category, she only surpasses him in skill which doesn’t matter.

No, this is just trying to oversell Superman as always. When someone if falling, it's not combat speed, she never tried to move her limbs in "comparable speeds" not even close.

As for the other instance, I don't think we've seen enough from this to suggest he's faster than her based on it. She specifically stated how she didn't want to fight him plenty of times in the scene, and at that very moment she said "please don't make me do this", while he was pissed off.

I think it’s actually possible she could be faster in the future, considering she’s about to fight someone based on comics, possibly cheetah going FTL

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mega6382

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ANTHP2000

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@mega6382: @rem: she'll need quite an amp herself to be that fast.

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DrPepperMan

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Low hypersonic combat speed, MHS travel speed, idk reactions.

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Mr_Shazam0920

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Mach 3000? I thought he was calced at Mach 900?

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buildhare

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@rogueshadow:

He has extremely OP speed. Far faster than the usual suspects he's put against in my opinion. That Diana didn't even have a clue what was going on when he fought Barry says it all. This is a woman who can slap mach 2.5 bullets out of the air for fun, by all logic, Diana should be a couple of mach higher than that when going all out given how easily she's accomplished her feats. Just based on that Clark would have to be massively hypersonic.

What do you think about this mid air stuff?

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macleen

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@supremegeneration: @anthp2000: Not in the mood for some long rebuttals but I got a couple of common sense scenes that prove SM is faster regardless of what you guys think.

In the tunnel we saw Flash running circles around what appears to be a frozen WW until he reached her and slowed down based off the silly smile he had on his face and pushed her sword back to her, even then she grabbed the sword in slow-mo relative to Flash. SW is also another character who WW completely failed to dominate and she got tagged repeatedly yet the same SW couldn't land a hit on SM and he too was in slow-mo compared to a smiling SM(holding back ) far from the murderous look he had when taking on Bary.

Finally no matter how many debunks you can come up with, when you're in an arm lock with your opponent and he suddenly turns his head ninety degrees to the right you will also but WW just like AM and Cyborg never did add in the fct that before SM went into superspeed you could see the back and forth struggle between the four but the trio all went limp( her hands actually slip from his) even though she had them firmly gripped.

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Chimeroid

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@krleavenger said:

@webinyoureye11: Well Clark should be faster than Diana obviously. But saying she's a statue to him and that she would never react to him? That fight doesn't really prove it. At best you can say Clark can move his head to the side before Diana can react. We never see her failing to move. She was held in place by him, he moved his head and he threw her. She had no control over herself.

Clark hasn't done anything to prove Diana can be frozen to him. He is just faster than her by a noticeable margin.

I wasn’t saying she is frozen, you can see in my gif she’s not frozen while he’s blitzing. But she did block heat vision

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Which went to space in about 3 seconds of screen time making that Mach 874 at least.

Superman blitzed her from a similar distance.

Actually, heat vision gets to space in under a second in the Doomsday showing. You don't properly see the beginning or the beam, but you do see the end. And, naturally, the end travels at the same speed the beginning does. You can clearly see the beam disappear in under a second.

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ANTHP2000

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@macleen:

Steppenwolf is far from a consistent combatant. Like I said, I don't know how I feel about his standing in the Battle Forums.

Just like I mentioned in the thread I linked, when Diana used her combat/movement speed on Barry's perception in the tunner scene, she could move just as fast as Clark was moving in his respective sequence with Barry. When she was falling, of course she wouldn't move at the same speeds as an actively running Flash. You guys still want to mess combat speed up with falling speed.

Why would she turn her head? Why would any of them do?

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macleen

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@anthp2000:

Steppenwolf is far from a consistent combatant. Like I said, I don't know how I feel about his standing in the Battle Forums.

It happened throughout the whole movie making it as consistent as it gets.

Just like I mentioned in the thread I linked, when Diana used her combat/movement speed on Barry's perception in the tunner scene, she could move just as fast as Clark was moving in his respective sequence with Barry. When she was falling, of course she wouldn't move at the same speeds as an actively running Flash. You guys still want to mess combat speed up with falling speed.

Her Reaction/movement/perception have always worked in perfect sync when she deals with bullet(supersonic projectiles that she can tag), so that excuse doesn't hold. If she had a moment where a gun was fired and she couldn't block because she couldn't move her whole body then your argument would make sense but she has blocked without moving her whole body. Secondly she is much slower than SM her gripping the sword is slower that Superman swing his whole arm, not to mention once again Barry had to slow down for it to work.

Why would she turn her head? Why would any of them do?

Because she did the same thing when SM blitzed DD from space in BvS. Because her opponent just abruptly turned, it may looked slow to SM and Flash but relative to real time SM turned his head at at least supersonic speeds implying something spooked him. As a warrior you have to be aware of your surroundings, never let your guard down. WW would be doing the opposite of those too if what you're trying to prove is true.

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ANTHP2000

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@macleen:

Steppenwolf was fighting Diana and the Parademons in the background were moving at the exact same speeds. He got restrained by a handful of Amazons similarly to how Doomsday was restrained by Diana, and yet she somehow could not restrain him. I'm not convinced they were being truthful to Wonder Woman's consistent, pre-established threat level during her fights with him. To put it another way, she was clearly nerfed for plot demands.

What? She wasn't trying to block, react to or do anything other than... fall. There's no excuse, that's exactly what happened. She was falling and she was frozen to Barry at that moment, but when she actually used her combat speed she moved just as fast as Clark was moving to his perception.

That's pretty headcanonish and based on nothing. First off, we don't even know if Clark's grip would allow her to turn, and second, there's no need to turn, Barry was attacking Superman not her or the League.