Pre-healed Caitlin was pretty OP(able to travel fast as flash while creating ice-road, insta-freeze almost anything from inside to out, able to control ice for torture, regen, etc)
@miraclecomeback: Or Black Flash didn’t avoid it because he was focused on the speedster in front of him? From what I remember, he was primal, purely focused on his target while chasing
@miraclecomeback: Or Black Flash didn’t avoid it because he was focused on the speedster in front of him? From what I remember, he was primal, purely focused on his target while chasing
nah, he clearly reacts to attacks. here he catches arrow and thrown blade with ease
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
before she got heavily nerfed in s4, she was keeping up with Barry
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
before she got heavily nerfed in s4, she was keeping up with Barry
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He was moving about 4-5 times as much distance as she was in the same amount of time.
For most of it all she was seeing was his "lightning". He was actively trying to make her see that to block her path and bring her back towards Cisco who was supposed to knock her out, but froze....No pun intended. I like Killer Frost, but she is nowhere near as fast as any of the Flash's.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
Frost is pretty fast but keep in mind that Black Flash lacks any of the skill or smarts that Zoom had, so much so RF could trap him in a vault with bait.
He's a mindless beast at the mercy of the Speedforce, basically.
Well, if we're to take the feat seriously, and the statement of the feat seriously, it should be about Mach 5 or so. By Season 1, Episode 8, Cisco told Diggle that Barry could move (about 600 mph). In the premiere episode, he moved above 700 mph if memory serves. I forget if Barry got significantly more faster than that by the end of the season (probably so), but going just off that math, Barry would be moving at Mach 1 speeds and Black Flash would be moving at Mach 4. So Killer Frost's reaction speed would probably ballpark in the Mach 5-7 range, depending on how much faster Barry got throughout the season. I would imagine no more than Mach 10.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
The first one she wasn't aiming for Barry, she was trying to hit Joe but Barry shielded him. The second one while impressive all she did was froze the ground where Barry was going to be, she didn't target him specifically.
Well, if we're to take the feat seriously, and the statement of the feat seriously, it should be about Mach 5 or so. By Season 1, Episode 8, Cisco told Diggle that Barry could move (about 600 mph). In the premiere episode, he moved above 700 mph if memory serves. I forget if Barry got significantly more faster than that by the end of the season (probably so), but going just off that math, Barry would be moving at Mach 1 speeds and Black Flash would be moving at Mach 4. So Killer Frost's reaction speed would probably ballpark in the Mach 5-7 range, depending on how much faster Barry got throughout the season. I would imagine no more than Mach 10.
If we are going by statement Barry is faster then light.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
I forgot entirely about the first one, however at normal levels Barry Isn't moving anywhere near as fast as Black Flash, at least in S3.
After that she was continuously attacking him while he was moving!
It wasn't like he was still using his super speed. After he was initially hit he just fell, you can even see that his lightning wasn't present indicating he was using his super speed.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
I forgot entirely about the first one, however at normal levels Barry Isn't moving anywhere near as fast as Black Flash, at least in S3.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
I forgot entirely about the first one, however at normal levels Barry Isn't moving anywhere near as fast as Black Flash, at least in S3.
How is normal level Barry << black flash?
You think black Flash is slower than Flash? In S3? He has no feats to suggest he could cover 200-400 ft. before Reverse Flash can cover 5 ft. unless I'm forgetting something.
@thewatcherking: How do you know that Black Flash didn’t start running a moment before Eobard did? That instance doesn’t provide a clear speed for Black Flash. He did fight evenly with Flash though, and while you can say that the speedforce was testing him, Black Flash did beat Barry at the end and started his life sucking thing. If Black Flash could easily take Barry down all that time, why didn’t he? I’d put Black Flash at Mach 14, on par with S3 Flash, Savitar, and Zoom.
How do you know that Black Flash didn’t start running a moment before Eobard did?
Well there is no evidence that suggests otherwise, but even so based on how the scene was set up I think they started running at around the same time. We don't here the sound effect for speedster lightning until we see Reverse Flash trying to get away and by then Black Flash covers the distance and kills Eobard. Even if we say that Black Flash started a second before Eobard he would still have to be many times faster to do what he did against Reverse Flash, so it doesn't matter either way.
That instance doesn’t provide a clear speed for Black Flash.
Even so it's a really good speed feat, and it's one I don't see Flash replicating with S3 feats.
He did fight evenly with Flash though, and while you can say that the speedforce was testing him, Black Flash did beat Barry at the end and started his life sucking thing
That was apart of the test, if Black Flash wanted to he could have done that the second he pinned Barry down but he didn't.
. If Black Flash could easily take Barry down all that time, why didn’t he?
It was apart of a test, he does whatever the speed force wants him to do and the speed force wasn't actively trying to kill Barry. It was merely testing him, as you brought up already.
I’d put Black Flash at Mach 14, on par with S3 Flash, Savitar, and Zoom.
His speed is hard to quantify, and he doesn't have a lot of appearances so I can see him being as fast as those speedster at the very least, although I do think he is faster than Zoom or Flash.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
I forgot entirely about the first one, however at normal levels Barry Isn't moving anywhere near as fast as Black Flash, at least in S3.
How is normal level Barry << black flash?
You think black Flash is slower than Flash? In S3?
At the end of the season, yes.
Since Barry got considerably faster over the season
He has no feats to suggest he could cover 200-400 ft. before Reverse Flash can cover 5 ft.
Well there is no evidence that suggests otherwise,
Right, but we assume innocent until proven guilty, inability until proven ability. I can say that FOX adamantium can withstand planetary attacks, and there is also no evidence to suggest otherwise, but we both know that that is not how it works.
but even so based on how the scene was set up I think they started running at around the same time. We don't here the sound effect for speedster lightning until we see Reverse Flash trying to get away and by then Black Flash covers the distance and kills Eobard. Even if we say that Black Flash started a second before Eobard he would still have to be many times faster to do what he did against Reverse Flash, so it doesn't matter either way.
How so? Given how fast the speedsters are, even a fraction of a second can make the entire difference. Like Black Flash stared at Sara at the end of the scene, he could have ran up to Eobard, who freaked and ran, but it was already too late.
Even so it's a really good speed feat, and it's one I don't see Flash replicating with S3 feats.
And why is that? Barry is three times faster than that Eobard, so even if he is still 15 feet away when Eobard starts running, he will catch up.
In reality, I just don't believe that a distance calc is concrete evidence of Black Flash being 40 times faster than Eobard.
That was apart of the test, if Black Flash wanted to he could have done that the second he pinned Barry down but he didn't.
It was apart of a test, he does whatever the speed force wants him to do and the speed force wasn't actively trying to kill Barry. It was merely testing him, as you brought up already.
I brought up "testing" because I knew you're going to say that. It doesn't make sense though: speedforce Ronnie wanted to talk to Barry. That wouldn't have been possible if Barry was running around fighting Black Flash. Black Flash specifically had to pin Barry, and he tried, but failed at first. The wiki supports this:
"The Speed Force refused to let him do so and unleashed the Black Flash against him. The demonic speedster viciously battled the Flash throughout the Speed Force version of Star Labs during which Barry attempted to escape in an elevator. The Black Flash grabbed Barry before he could and hurled him back out, pinning him to the ground."
Please note that "the Speed Force refused to let him do so" and "the demonic speedster viciously battled the Flash"
His speed is hard to quantify, and he doesn't have a lot of appearances so I can see him being as fast as those speedster at the very least, although I do think he is faster than Zoom or Flash.
I'd say he's a tad faster than Zoom but not faster than Flash, as Barry did have some time to improve his speed in S3, even if he was training Wally. Even so, the difference is insignificant.
It's PIS, Killer Frost has no other feats besides this putting her speed at bullet timing, let alone on a level that suggests she can react to a speddster of Black Flash's caliber.
I forgot entirely about the first one, however at normal levels Barry Isn't moving anywhere near as fast as Black Flash, at least in S3.
How is normal level Barry << black flash?
You think black Flash is slower than Flash? In S3?
At the end of the season, yes.
Since Barry got considerably faster over the season
He has no feats to suggest he could cover 200-400 ft. before Reverse Flash can cover 5 ft.
What logic is this?
unless I'm forgetting something.
I don't understand ur logic.
What logic is asking is Flash could replicate Black Flash's speed feats?
Right, but we assume innocent until proven guilty, inability until proven ability. I can say that FOX adamantium can withstand planetary attacks, and there is also no evidence to suggest otherwise, but we both know that that is not how it works.
I'm not sure how this makes sense when we do in fact see Black Flash blitz Reverse Flash despite being far away at the same time RF starts running or after. If there is no evidence suggesting something that goes against what is shown, why would it make sense to go against what is established?
How so? Given how fast the speedsters are, even a fraction of a second can make the entire difference. Like Black Flash stared at Sara at the end of the scene, he could have ran up to Eobard, who freaked and ran, but it was already too late.
The way the scene is set up makes it seem more likely that they started running at roughly the same time, but like I said if that's not the case it wouldn't matter. Even if Black Flash did run a fraction he would still have to be many times faster to cover over 200 ft. before Eobard can even cover 20 ft.
And why is that? Barry is three times faster than that Eobard, so even if he is still 15 feet away when Eobard starts running, he will catch up.
In reality, I just don't believe that a distance calc is concrete evidence of Black Flash being 40 times faster than Eobard.
What exactly makes Barry 3x faster? And anyway being three times faster wouldn't allow Barry to replicate the feat since Black Flash was way more than 15 ft away, he was easily more than 100 ft. away if not more.
I brought up "testing" because I knew you're going to say that. It doesn't make sense though: speedforce Ronnie wanted to talk to Barry. That wouldn't have been possible if Barry was running around fighting Black Flash.
I don't see why the speed force couldn't talk to Barry while he was pinned down by Black Flash, like how it actually happened.
Black Flash specifically had to pin Barry, and he tried, but failed at first. The wiki supports this:Please note that "the Speed Force refused to let him do so" and "the demonic speedster viciously battled the Flash"
I'm not really sure what this is supposed to prove, if Black Flash was specifically trying to pin down Barry then it supports the fact that it was a test and that is why he didn't try to kill Barry.
I'm not sure how this makes sense when we do in fact see Black Flash blitz Reverse Flash despite being far away at the same time RF starts running or after. If there is no evidence suggesting something that goes against what is shown, why would it make sense to go against what is established?
We are trying to analyze one specific feat here. We don't know how impressive it is, because at most, Black Flash is 40 times faster than Thawne, and at worst, he is just a little faster. Any speed from about Mach 5 to Mach 200 is valid based on this one feat.
However, this isn't Black Flash's only feat, as he also fought Flash. If his fight with Flash is indeed evidence that he's about as S3 speedsters, then his feat against Thawne doesn't contradict it, because Mach 14 (the speed of S3 speedsters), falls into the range mentioned previously.
The way the scene is set up makes it seem more likely that they started running at roughly the same time, but like I said if that's not the case it wouldn't matter. Even if Black Flash did run a fraction he would still have to be many times faster to cover over 200 ft. before Eobard can even cover 20 ft.
Sure it would. Let's say that Black Flash is Mach 14 (4800 m/s), and he started running a 1/200 of a second before Reverse Flash did. By the time Eobard starts to run, Black Flash is already right next to him, meaning that he doesn't have to be that much faster than Eobard to catch him. That 1/200th second headstart made a huge difference because it is a speedster that we're talking about.
What exactly makes Barry 3x faster? And anyway being three times faster wouldn't allow Barry to replicate the feat since Black Flash was way more than 15 ft away, he was easily more than 100 ft. away if not more.
S3 Barry is Mach 14. The Eobard from an earlier timeline was a bit faster than Flash who was Mach 3.2 at the time. After Barry defeated him, Eobard went back to the future and continued time travelling back to the 21st century on occasion. After finding out that Flash was Barry Allen, he decided to go back in time once more to kill Barry's mom. However, S2 finale Flash stopped him from doing that in the altered timeline, dragging Eobard into Flashpoint. After Eobard was released, he found himself pursued by Black Flash, and joined the Legend side of the Arrowverse.
Eobard could have gotten faster during his time in the future, but there is no evidence of that. Therefore, we assume that his speed remained the same, at about Mach 3.5. Nearly 4 times slower than Mach 14 Barry.
And anyway being three times faster wouldn't allow Barry to replicate the feat since Black Flash was way more than 15 ft away, he was easily more than 100 ft. away if not more.
Already explained that.
I don't see why the speed force couldn't talk to Barry while he was pinned down by Black Flash, like how it actually happened.
Uh? It could and it did. But Black Flash had to pin Barry down first, which he struggled to do.
I'm not really sure what this is supposed to prove, if Black Flash was specifically trying to pin down Barry then it supports the fact that it was a test and that is why he didn't try to kill Barry.
Of course Black Flash didn't try to kill Barry, but he did need to pin him down so that a) The speedforce can talk to him and b) Barry has a chance to prove himself by escaping the death touch by severing his path out of the speedforce
If Black Flash was that much faster than Barry, then do you really think this would happen?
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