Honestly what is the point of even debating Star Wars vs other universes?

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Dmnb2wavy

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Star Wars is so inconsistent across the board that in movies/tv shows darth Vader seems like he could barely beat characters like pain or even kisame but with comic interpretations he is apparently a god who would treat pain like he is fodder.

Force users don’t even seem like the same characters depending on whether or not if they are in a tv show, movie or comic

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WarStars1977

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#2  Edited By WarStars1977

@dmnb2wavy: There doesn’t seem to be a point of debating Star Wars in-verse either. Users here seem to think that Sidious, Vader, and Luke in the OT are stomp gap above the Force users in the PT.

Star Wars is boring both on battle forums and in real life.

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AbstractRApeal

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#3  Edited By AbstractRApeal

During the comics, we are talking about a Vader who recently became Vader after the Galactic Empire's formation, which means it was even before Rogue One, at that time, Luke was still a toddler, in New Hope, Luke was 19 years old, during Luke's first 10 years age, Vader was sent to different solo expeditions and those were his prime times as Darth Vader.

But I do believe that those crossovers aren't nice, and let's be honest, the Force is pretty OP, what is gonna do an overpowered Ninja with Chakra against the Force?

This matchup doesn't even have anything to do with feats, when Darth Vader can telepathically crush the spine of these individuals and goodbye, I mean the force makes a practitioner sense the presence around without having to even see...

So what?

You tell me, alright let's bring a Genjutsu practitioner, so I do say, 50%-50%, if Vader falls, it's loss, if Vader doesn't and has the intuition snaps their opponent's spine, he wins. So it's a hella boring matchup.

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Wolfrazer

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#4  Edited By Wolfrazer

@warstars1977: It's only boring, if you ignore basically the setting as a whole and just focus on the same characters over and over again, there's more to Star Wars than just a handful of characters and a lot more than just the movies and TV shows.

Granted Disney hasn't exactly given much and they're 10+ years in at this point.

But there's some 30+ years of SW material before Disney that one can look at, you'll find a ton of stuff.

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WarStars1977

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@warstars1977: It's only boring, if you ignore basically the setting as a whole and just focus on the same characters over and over again, there's more to Star Wars than just a handful of characters and a lot more than just the movies and TV shows.

Granted Disney hasn't exactly given much and they're 10+ years in at this point.

But there's some 30+ years of SW material before Disney that one can look at, you'll find a ton of stuff.

I’ve always been a canon fan. It’s hard to be interested in a story that doesn’t matter. I don’t care for overpowered characters generally, but I especially don’t like them in Star Wars, and I know they are prevalent in the EU, too.

I’ve really enjoyed the HR. It’s nice to see the Jedi fighting galaxy regulars, instead of pulling ships out of the sky and crushing skyscrapers. I know those stories appeal to some, though. The Clone Wars show was particularly good at regulating Force users.

Disney content is incredibly hit or miss.

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takenstew22

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#6  Edited By takenstew22  Moderator
@dmnb2wavy said:

Star Wars is so inconsistent across the board that in movies/tv shows darth Vader seems like he could barely beat characters like pain or even kisame but with comic interpretations he is apparently a god who would treat pain like he is fodder.

Force users don’t even seem like the same characters depending on whether or not if they are in a tv show, movie or comic

Which is why people specify which versions they're using in battles...

This seems like a non-issue. Different variations of fictional characters will look more impressive than their other variations, whether through scaling or feats they preform in their own continuity.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#7  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@abstractrapeal:

This is all just headcanon tho besides that yoda and sidous are much older than Vader and still do similar feats of moving mountains in comics. The truth of the matter is the way characters like Vader are written in the comics is to be op as possible which makes their on screen interpretations look like different characters which again begs my question why even debate Star Wars?

Also what your saying lies an issue with the force. the force is op yes……. when it isn’t getting plagued down by inconsistencies and plot. You would think based of the description of a force user they would be able to easily beat anyone that is a non user but even obi wan and anakin struggled immensely with non force users

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Dmnb2wavy

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#8  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@takenstew22: except they don’t? The only versions I hear people use is either legends or Canon Vader which includes the comics, tv shows, movies, ext

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takenstew22

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#9 takenstew22  Moderator

@takenstew22: except they don’t? The only versions I hear people use is either legends or Canon Vader which includes the comics, tv shows, movies, ext

You just mentioned 2 different versions.

My point.

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AbstractRApeal

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#10  Edited By AbstractRApeal

@dmnb2wavy: The thing is that, the Force is OP, but if you put Superman or Thor, would you think the Force would be able to snap their spines? The answer is no, as long you introduce a matchup with super strength, enough to no sell it, it becomes a mismatch immediately, but as far as it is a match with lower stats on such, it becomes a mismatch in favor of the Force users, like it's either black or white.

While I do agree, the comics are more savage than irl Star Wars, ya, I get you.

PS:

If Luke can squeeze iron like nothing like what happened in the Mandalorian against those robots, what's a spine? nothings...

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Eredin12

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#11  Edited By Eredin12

Honestly what is this even? What is point of debating any one universe vs another unvierse? For me it is fun, and same is with SW. Yes SW characters in comics and such often have much better showings than in live action. And at same time over 90% of feats and appearances Vader has in canon come from comics. Tbh, I just have no idea what is even point here, if you want to just focus on live action for some reason, you can specify that in OP of the thread you make.

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DerTilt

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Well,Disney SW is dogshit.A small butterknife is more deadly as a lightsaber for them lol

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mutantheroic

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#13  Edited By mutantheroic
@dmnb2wavy said:

Star Wars is so inconsistent across the board that in movies/tv shows darth Vader seems like he could barely beat characters like pain or even kisame but with comic interpretations he is apparently a god who would treat pain like he is fodder.

Force users don’t even seem like the same characters depending on whether or not if they are in a tv show, movie or comic

If Star Wars shouldn't be debated because of inconsistency across all its multi-authorial media, this sets a precedent that we should bar DC and Marvel from being debated on Comicvine as well, because they are infinitely far more inconsistent compared to Star Wars, and yet DC/Marvel is the biggest cornerstone of debating on Comicvine, essentially killing the backbone of activity on this site.

If you want to remove Star Wars, you have to set that example and convince the DC and Marvel debaters to move on to something actually substantially more consistent, which can't happen.

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WarStars1977

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@dertilt said:

Well,Disney SW is dogshit.A small butterknife is more deadly as a lightsaber for them lol

Haha. So true.

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Wolfrazer

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#15  Edited By Wolfrazer

@warstars1977: I mean that's fair you do you, I was just bringing up that there's a huge swath of SW material even before Disney, that can be looked at for stories, characters and so on. I feel the problem is now, there isn't really a hard focus on other characters, at least compared to more the well known ones IE: Basically the movies or TCW characters and even then it's further focused on specific characters such as Luke, Sidious or Vader.

Though at least I guess the HR is getting a bit of focus, but I don't really see much talk about the characters, in fact what I've heard, the HR is kinda tanking with sales.

Of course I also feel like people are exaggerating things with "Force Users moving mountains" and all that nonsense. Yeah, there's perhaps Yoda's instance, but let's be real...this isn't even consistent among Force Users even with the upper echelons as that's really been the only time. Sure Force Users in Canon have shown to throw around large ships and the like, but these showings vs others are few and far between and only really relating to certain characters, even within the upper echelons of them.

There are big Force feats done in the HR as well, though these have context/circumstances with them, which I feel people don't take into account either. In fact I feel the biggest problem is not looking at the context/circumstance of a feat if there is any.

Now the EU, sure it's a little more crazy because for a certain time, The Force was treated more like a DnD style of magic system and even very basic Force Users could get crazy powerful, either through scaling or feats, but even there I feel people exaggerated a little too much(as far as the BIG feats that only the upper echelons could do) and casting a blanket over it, when in reality it's really just the more powerful Force Users and not just a generalized thing.

Of course "being powerful" is perhaps a relative term within the setting, a basic Force User could be crazy powerful, but then this just means the bigger characters themselves are just moreso.

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Straight-Fire

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They shouldn't be debated against other universes because they get dragged. No matter what the wankers say, the characters ain't as powerful as some want them to be.

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rajjarsalt

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Get them Star Warriors!!!

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calclord

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You do realize that you could say the same about any universe, right? And you also realize that if you don't want to debate Star Wars, you can simply not engage with those threads, right?

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dark_globe

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#19  Edited By dark_globe
@warstars1977 said:

@dmnb2wavy: There doesn’t seem to be a point of debating Star Wars in-verse either. Users here seem to think that Sidious, Vader, and Luke in the OT are stomp gap above the Force users in the PT.

not all of them think like this .

but yes a few "influential" users and the majority of their "followers"
are pushing this agenda at the moment .
some of them do so just because it is "trendy" right now
so they say it although i suspect not all of them
really mean it 100% ,
they just want to appear as "credible" and on point with disney "canon".

needless to say it is really boring .
and also ridiculous in my opinion .
and although me and a few others are being mocked for not jumping on this band wagon
i will continue to deliver a reality check here and there .

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anderioan

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Star Wars is very fun to debate, but it I agree it gets ridiculous when people start quoting obscure and ridiculous feats from novel adaptations when those feats are effectively voided by the canon source material being live action. There are no FTL combat feats in star wars.

I think it would be best if all SW feats were universally reigned in across the board on Comic Vine with one of KFV Anakin's more grounded feats being the cap of what is possible in universe. I'm thinking along the lines of what he can accomplish in Battlefront II (2017).

The Jedi aren't comic book level superheroes, they're humans with psychic powers that allow them to enhance their bodies, minds, and (at the highest levels) other people and objects. Along the lines of low- to mid-level psykers from 40k.

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Steve40L

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During the comics, we are talking about a Vader who recently became Vader after the Galactic Empire's formation, which means it was even before Rogue One, at that time, Luke was still a toddler, in New Hope, Luke was 19 years old, during Luke's first 10 years age, Vader was sent to different solo expeditions and those were his prime times as Darth Vader.

But I do believe that those crossovers aren't nice, and let's be honest, the Force is pretty OP, what is gonna do an overpowered Ninja with Chakra against the Force?

This matchup doesn't even have anything to do with feats, when Darth Vader can telepathically crush the spine of these individuals and goodbye, I mean the force makes a practitioner sense the presence around without having to even see...

So what?

You tell me, alright let's bring a Genjutsu practitioner, so I do say, 50%-50%, if Vader falls, it's loss, if Vader doesn't and has the intuition snaps their opponent's spine, he wins. So it's a hella boring matchup.

It's telekinetically. Telepathically is like Dr. Xavier

sorry. I don't know why I had to point that out ._.

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AbstractRApeal

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@steve40l said:
@abstractrapeal said:

During the comics, we are talking about a Vader who recently became Vader after the Galactic Empire's formation, which means it was even before Rogue One, at that time, Luke was still a toddler, in New Hope, Luke was 19 years old, during Luke's first 10 years age, Vader was sent to different solo expeditions and those were his prime times as Darth Vader.

But I do believe that those crossovers aren't nice, and let's be honest, the Force is pretty OP, what is gonna do an overpowered Ninja with Chakra against the Force?

This matchup doesn't even have anything to do with feats, when Darth Vader can telepathically crush the spine of these individuals and goodbye, I mean the force makes a practitioner sense the presence around without having to even see...

So what?

You tell me, alright let's bring a Genjutsu practitioner, so I do say, 50%-50%, if Vader falls, it's loss, if Vader doesn't and has the intuition snaps their opponent's spine, he wins. So it's a hella boring matchup.

It's telekinetically. Telepathically is like Dr. Xavier

sorry. I don't know why I had to point that out ._.

Thumbs up Steve, totally the right definition! Thanks !

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Reaper4

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#23  Edited By Reaper4

I feel likes theres no point in debating vs fiction in general. Its just fun (At least not when people are calling me stupid or being toxic or just being insane😭)