History of Marvel Cinematic Univers/DC Cinematic Universe (ROTTEN TOMATO DEBACLE) #1

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cortomaltese

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Edited By cortomaltese

I felt inspired to write this blog following debacle of "Suicide Squad" on Rotten Tomatoes. In this blog I will not try to explain to you how said site functions (works) nor will I criticize it. The point of this blog is to address said situation and try to answer the question of why the problem happened at all. I read a comments and blogs of various forums and sites, including this one about biased critics and some absurd plots to destroy DC. Let me tell you off the bat WE as the human beings are all in some way biased towards something WE all have opinion about everything, heck even not having opinion about something is an opinion in some way (i know it sounds paradoxical and stupid but if you really think about it it's like that). It's just our human nature and we don't need to hide it or try to conceal it the difference is some people are more biased and some less. Of course we all expect of critics to be less biased and give us objective view on something. Ok that was intro now on to the real thing.

So after watching each Marvel movie that came to the big screen couple of times I will say to you that even those with high ratings aren't as good as ratings show them to be. I will be as much as objective as I can while I explain this to you. The thing that Marvel started, the big Cinematic Universe is hands down one of the most ambitious projects in movie history, to put all those beloved characters and stories on screen and try to connect all the dots in one big series is very risky and ballsy effort. But if you look at the history of film nobody tried something like that already, which some will say even magnifies their bravery but just hear me out. Right in the beginning Marvel didn't have any competition to compare it's work to. Please don't mention old X-Men or F4 because if you know anything about movies you can see they weren't filmed with much planing, they didn't have the idea, ground or the material to do the whole universe. That could be explained with the fact that they are actually only a portion of the original Marvel universe. Now that we established that...I will repeat: "Right in the beginning Marvel didn't have any competition to compare it's work to". So if Marvel didn't have any competition their work would probably looked better then it really was. What I'm trying to say is, we all wanted something like this to happen and we were all so hyped we didn't want it to fail...and luckily it didn't fail but i want to show you that it didn't came out as strong as we are telling ourselves when we compare it to the DCEU start. We are going to compare MCU start to DCEU start so from Marvels side I am only going to talk about PHASE ONE. Marvel started strong, IRON MAN was a great film, in my opinion it is a best Marvel film before Captain America Winter Solider came out. But (there is always a but) thing got a little flimsy after that, neither of the next films up to Avengers was as good as Iron Man, even if you don't compare them to Iron Man those movies where mediocre at best (the movies I am talking about are "The Incredible Hulk", "Iron Man 2", "Thor" and "Captain America the first Avenger"). Truth to be told those movies had to happen because they were a set up to much bigger story, maybe origins is a better word than a set up. Now lets go to DCEU. DCEU started things with Man of Steel. Man of Steel is a very good movie, I would say not as good and balanced as Iron Man but a vg movie nonetheless. But Man of Steel had a obstacle that Iron Man didn't have. Iron Man didn't have big appearance on the big screen before 2008 and Man of Steel had to live up to the legacy of the classic superman movies. Most of those movies weren't that good and were really cheesy but they had great Christopher Reeve. His legacy was not easy to take on and his portrayal of Superman is probably still considered as greatest Superman portrayal ever. (I'm not undermining Henry Cavill with this sentence) So in the beginning MoS had two rivals to top which was not easy and seemingly it flopped with the critics. But it shouldn't have, it's one of those movies that deserve much bigger credit than critics gave it. It got rates that it did, not because of its quality but because it was compared to movies it didn't have to be compared with.

This is the first part of the blog. I had in plan to write all in one text but i fell tired as hell because it's 2:35 am in the morning where I live. I will probably finish this tomorrow with the text about the same size. Next up I will try to explain Avengers, Dawn of Justice and in the end Suicide Squad. I hope you'll like it give me your feedback please comment on text and my writing, I would appreciate it, even the critics. I am aware it's a long read but it's a heated subject and I am giving all my efforts to show you different side of the problem.

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MAZAHS117

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#1 MAZAHS117  Online

Oh boy

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deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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Critic

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@cortomaltese: congratulations on repeating what people have been saying for the last year. Bravo to you!

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from_beyond

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So after watching each Marvel movie that came to the big screen couple of times I will say to you that even those with high ratings aren't as good as ratings show them to be.

I think some Marvel movies don't deserve the ratings that they have. For example, BVS is not worse than Ironman 2 and still BVS only got 29% on RT whereas Ironman 2 has 72%. Movies like Antman and Thor 2 don't deserve the high ratings they got especially considering the low ratings of MOS and BVS. But I disagree with you that in general Marvel movies with high ratings aren't as good as ratings show them to be. In my opinion Winter Soldier and Civil War were great movies, one of the best in comic book movie genre. They deserve every praise they got.

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cortomaltese

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@from_beyond: Maybe i wasn't clear enough...probably wasn't, I wanted to cover a lot of ground in little number of words ended up doing quite the opposite, I wanted to do this blog as a practice on something else so I am glad you found my clumsiness.
You said "In my opinion Winter Soldier and Civil War were great movies, one of the best in comic book movie genre. They deserve every praise they got." these two are probably the best Marvel movies by now, alongside Iron Man, and I have nothing against them, I absolutely love them. I wanted to compare those first phase Marvel movies to DCEU first three movies, WS and CW are phase 2 and 3 so they won't be in this blog. I won't even include GotG in this blog even though a lot of people compare it to Suicide Squad. Why is that? well because Marvel started things in 2008 and WS, CW, GotG are movies made 6, 8 years later. It's not fair to compare DC movies which didn't made ground to the universe yet to movies that have a big head start before them.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say because English is not my native and I am clumsy when it comes to expressing my opinions in big texts...that is one of the reasons I am doing this...for practice...Thanks for your comment :)


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cortomaltese

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@critic: I am doing this as a exercise for something else I agree I could have found subject more original (probably will later on, that is the whole point of this) but the thing is this is the first subject that popped to my mind, second was "Can petunias think for themselves?"... would you like to read that? :P Writing helps me blow off some steam and trust me this helped me a lot, hope you understand that.

P.S. Hope I'll write something later on that interests you more, but first I am going to finish this blog because I don't like leaving things unfinished.

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from_beyond

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@cortomaltese:Your English is pretty good. I will ask you though, why can't we compare Marvel phase 2 to DC phase 1? You said,

"It's not fair to compare DC movies which didn't made ground to the universe yet to movies that have a big head start before them."

I don't think that's a valid point. GOTG didn't have any head start. Yes, the movie existed in Marvel universe but it's not like other movies prepared any ground for it. The same can be said about Ironman 1 that you acknowledge. If you look outside the Marvel studios, movies such as X-men 1, Spiderman 1 or even Baman Begins didn't have any head start and yet they were fantastic. People criticize DCU because they haven't made even ONE movie that received wide acclaim like the ones that I mentioned. They have made three movies and none of them belong to the same league as other top notch movies.Had they made even one movie that was as well received as the other top movies, people will view DCU in a positive light. But they made flawed movies with poor story telling, choppy editing and poor direction. Even though many DCU fans find these movies enjoyable, they aren't as widely liked by critics and general public as other top movies.

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Jgames

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#8  Edited By Jgames

Interesting, in other news water is wet. Seriously thought, most people already came with the conclusion that the superhero craze has cause people to have higher expectation. I mean granted yeah BvS theatrical cut sort of deserved the rating with the atrocious editing and being hype as hell. Don't worry BvS UC I still love you even though I rather see Watchmen.

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cruelwinter

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Some people here sigh

It's not like you haven't reiterated something before: be it that Jared Leto's Joker design sucks, BvS is a disappointment, Civil War is a great film, Kanye West is a gay fish etc. If you don't appreciate the user's comment, move on, but don't pretend like you have anything more valuable to say.

Hell, I see people reiterating things that were already said in this thread.

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cortomaltese

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@jgames:Yeah main problem that is primarily DCs fault is editing and if they don't do something about it Justice League will probably have a similar problem. I wanted to get into that in second part.

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cortomaltese

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@from_beyond: Guardians of the Galaxy were made about a group of superheroes a lot of people didn't even know about, they were filmed when Marvel saw that even their lets say "misses" got solid critic acclaim. It was worth a risk from the begging and after 10 movies they kinda new what people want to watch. It was not such a brave effort as lets say Avengers Phase One. I will point out my main problem with DCEU in the next part, I don't want it to look like I am just thrashing Marvel, because it's not about that. Subjectively I like most of their movies but when I look beyond my love for comicbook movies I see problems in them. I won't praise DC movies and try to put them on high pedestal I just want to show that they don't need to be compared to some movies and they don't deserve to be thrashed.
Honestly I am not a DC guy I am not a Marvel guy I love them both really, for example I can't wait to see Valiant try on a big screen. I really appreciate what these publishers are doing on a big screen.

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cortomaltese

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@cruelwinter: Kanye West is A RECOVERING gay fish please check your facts before writing these things :P
I wouldn't say Leto design sucks, I didn't like it also but it works with a movie.
But that Alex Ross reference boy oh boy :D

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cruelwinter

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@cruelwinter: Kanye West is A RECOVERING gay fish please check your facts before writing these things :P

I wouldn't say Leto design sucks, I didn't like it also but it works with a movie.

But that Alex Ross reference boy oh boy :D

That Alex Ross easter egg was a tease for a movie we didn't get. Pleasent, but I didn't feel good afterwards.

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darkdetective27

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DC probably would have been more successful had they started first, but Id say if the MCU followed they will still be able to take the cbm throne. DC's movies are really bad on a fundamental level and there seems to be no hope for them.

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Mfundroid

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1) Okay, whose alt account is this?

2) Haven't we been through this already?

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cortomaltese

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@mfundroid: Its not an alt account (I bet that would any alt account say hmmmm).
If you don't want to read it then by all means don't.