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Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11675 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember 4 months ago, when everyone was going apeshit over BvS (Whether it will make enough money, it's quality, who's fault it was, whether the DCEU would continue, if it was overhated) and everyone seem to put the blame on Snyder. I (along with a few others) knew better, and knew all along from the beginning that this was the result of the horrible management at WB. I also predicted that the UC would be drastically better , and that unless WB get's their crap together, the exact same thing would happen to SS. But no, I was hounded at, and called a "Snyder fanboy" & was told that "SS would be the next Deadpool or GotG (a relatively small, unknown property [well, Deadpool isn't really unknown, but just roll with it], that would be a fun watch, wouldn't take itself too seriously, and would ultimately receive praise from critics and fans as the "savior of the DCEU).

Fast forward 3 months later, and what happened? UC was released, and received far better reception from fans and critics alike (though there are still those who dislike it for reasons like "too dark", trying too much to be "edgy", not "fun" enough, not my Batman or not my Superman, etc.). The narrative was drastically better, the character development felt complete, and it actually felt like Batman v. Superman, not Batman ft. Superman. It also seems like it will make a killing in Blu-Ray sales.

Fast forward another month to now, and what happened? The complete incompetence of WB, and knee jerk reaction they had over BvS prompted them to cut out 30 minutes of the film, reshoot more "funny" moments, and re-edit the entirety of the film. You know what that resulted in? Critics trashing the crap out of the film. Granted, the film might benefit from being a fun movie, which audiences seem to take more of a liking to, and can still make a killing at the Box Office (Just see IM2, Thor: the Dark World, and IM 2. Granted, IM3 was better received by fans than IM2 and Thor, but it was nothing spectacular); "fun" movies, no matter how trashy they are, will always receive better fan reception than "non fun" movies. For some reason people in general seem to be more forgiving of a movie's flaws if you inject a little humor into it and the characters' don't seem to take too much seriously. It's why some people legitimately think IM3 is a superior film to MoS.

Now what does this all mean? Firstly, you all should listen to me more (lol, jk). Secondly, Snyder is not the problem with the DCEU, it's WB who keeps shooting themselves in the foot. Lastly, there's still hope that SS makes money because it's "fun".

At the end of the day, unless WB let their directors do their job, WHICH IS DIRECT, then we'll keep getting the same result.

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#1 Posted by darkdetective27 (7953 posts) - - Show Bio

I still feel Snyder is a bad director and poor decision to be directing these movies. Though it is clear WB really isnt helping matters. The DCEU is dead and they just need to bury it.

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#2 Edited by jumpstart55 (11025 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope it is fun like Thor; The Dark World, and Ironman 2 and 3..Because ive always had an affinity for fun generic action movies and those types of movies have the best rewatchability especially on TNT and FX lmao...But If Suicide Squad is virtually joyless like BVS it wont just be getting bad reviews from critics and fans alike it will be getting scorched to a crisp and burned at the stake.

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#3 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio

I still feel Snyder is a bad director and poor decision to be directing these movies. Though it is clear WB really isnt helping matters. The DCEU is dead and they just need to bury it.

As long it's making cash DCEU isn't stopping.

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#4 Posted by darkdetective27 (7953 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman3000: Yeah and it will likely get to a point where it does stop making money with all the bad buzz.

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#5 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkdetective27: Well to be fair Transformers movies are still happening and Michael Bay's still helming the series.

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#7 Posted by Mr___death (273 posts) - - Show Bio

He's still a bad director none of his movie even has 80 % score in rotten tomatoes..

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/zack_snyder/

The sooner he's gone the better for dceu

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#8 Edited by Heatforce (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimately I think it comes down to WB wanting to rush out the door and catch up with Marvel. I'm not saying they had to come out with several solo movies and then a team up movie but BvS IMO came too early. As great as the BvS ultimate edition is, the fact that it had to be cut down for theatres tells me that BvS should have had a batman movie come before it. And because they rushed BvS out the door and cut out important plot details, the critics slammed it. Then WB knee-jerked and edited Suicide Squad to death apparently. DCEU fans shouldn't petition to shut down Rotten Tomatoes. Yes, a lot of the critics have very superficial tastes when it comes to Superhero films IMO but they aren't the problem, WB is. The next petition should be to have WB leave Patty Jenkins alone for the sake of Wonder Woman.

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#9 Edited by darkdetective27 (7953 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman3000: The Transformers movies are extremely popular in China and continue to make more there. If you look domestically those movies make less with the recent installments. The DC movies dont have quite as much international appeal as those or the Marvel movies.

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#10 Posted by Farkam (12036 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude, we get it you hate Marvel but the passive aggressiveness you keep showing doesn't support your argument. Marvel, for whatever faults you may have with them, are pretty good at getting the general audience to like their films and CARE (for the love of god that's so important) about their characters. DC still haven't made a film where the characters are universally loved. Suicide Squad may change that and people loved Wondy and Bats. Once they get that down it'll be fine.

No, you, and anyone who likes MCU, is just a brain dead sheep. :)

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#11 Posted by Heatforce (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr___death: That means nothing look at the audience score of his films. It's clearly obvious that critics hate Snyder and to use that against him is pretty ridiculous.

@soldierofel:He just stated that he dislikes Ironman 3. I dislike Ironman 2 myself and I enjoy Ironman 3. I just didn't enjoy how AoU magically made Tony's impressive decision disappear.

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#12 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkdetective27: Fair. Although even though it's a bit unfair since I'm comparing Hulk and Iron Man to Batman and Superman BvS alone made more than Marvel's first 2 outing =s combined (Incredible Hulk 263.4 + Iron Man 588.2 = 848.6 mil and BvS made 870 something mil.) Again I know it's Batman and Superman but BvS was still under the pressure of very negative and harsh reviews whereas IH was considered average and IM was a huge success critically. That's a pretty big financial success.

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#13 Posted by darkdetective27 (7953 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman3000: It is extremely unfair especially since there was almost no hype around Marvel's movies and MoS and BvS had massive hype and opening weekends then quickly dropped at the box office. Had they been good they could have made so much more money.

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#14 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11675 posts) - - Show Bio

@soldierofel said:

Dude, we get it you hate Marvel but the passive aggressiveness you keep showing doesn't support your argument. Marvel, for whatever faults you may have with them, are pretty good at getting the general audience to like their films and CARE (for the love of god that's so important) about their characters. DC still haven't made a film where the characters are universally loved. Suicide Squad may change that and people loved Wondy and Bats. Once they get that down it'll be fine.

Did you even read the post????? Where did I say I hate Marvel? I love Marvel, Spideman is my favorite character, I thought IM and TWS were phenomenal films, about 60% of my comic inventory is Marvel, half of my 10 favorite Comic Characters are from Marvel! Besides IM 2, 3, and Thor 2, when did I even make mention of Marvel. I spent the majority of the post criticizing WB and pointing out how you all were wrong. I didn't even criticize the MCU as a whole, only a select few of their films.

Maybe instead of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "Marvel hater", you should read next time before responding.

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#15 Posted by Mike_Fowler (5085 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering my problems with BvS ranged more from story elements than editing issues, I blame both of them

Online
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#16 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman v. Superman, not Batman ft. Superman

Lol

I agree. although I blamed Snyder as well at first, I saw it wasn't his fault when the UC came out. Poor dude.

Also, Fuq Warner Bros. Money hungry bastards

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#17 Posted by youknowwhattodo (2196 posts) - - Show Bio

It is true that WB has completely bungled the DC Cinematic Universe, but studio interference doesn't absolve blame for Zack Snyder. Sure, the extended cut of Batman V. Superman was more coherent, it was still a dreary, boring three hours. Nowhere near the quality necessary for the film to establish positive momentum for DCEU. There are a plethora of problems with the DCEU and Zack Synder is still one of them.

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#18 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Edited by Saint_Sophie (7263 posts) - - Show Bio

What does UC stand for? Sorry I don't really know.. and if it's something obvious then well haha on me.

xoxo, -Saint Sophie

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#20 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11675 posts) - - Show Bio

What does UC stand for? Sorry I don't really know.. and if it's something obvious then well haha on me.

xoxo, -Saint Sophie

Ultimate Cut. Some call it Directors Cut, Ultimate Edition, or Extended Cut.

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#21 Posted by SanoHibiki (3425 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Snyder directed two out of three my favorite cbm films - Watchmen and MoS and it's true that B v S UC is better, more coherent movie than Theatrical Cut, but still...

As MoS fan, I feel like B v S dumped on DCEU Superman, and Snyder is major part of it. H...ll, he suggested Knightmare scene - Rao, how I hate it (and that not even mentioning many other issues).

Then again, WB isn't helping at all and its stupid to blame Snyder alone (guy may become scapegoat at this rate).

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#22 Posted by DarthAznable (16928 posts) - - Show Bio

Snyder still isnt a great story teller tho.

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#23 Posted by deactivated-5c9535a734784 (2578 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:
@soldierofel said:

Dude, we get it you hate Marvel but the passive aggressiveness you keep showing doesn't support your argument. Marvel, for whatever faults you may have with them, are pretty good at getting the general audience to like their films and CARE (for the love of god that's so important) about their characters. DC still haven't made a film where the characters are universally loved. Suicide Squad may change that and people loved Wondy and Bats. Once they get that down it'll be fine.

No, you, and anyone who likes MCU, is just a brain dead sheep. :)

I'll have you know, I'm a goat. So take that, sir!

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#24 Posted by Jgames (8191 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL, having humor does not make a movie betrer, is succesfully inserting it like Ant-Man. A stupid fun movie, is hreat if the humor is great, it just seem like the op is just not a fan of the humor, which is okay, but saying that MoS is superior to Iron Mam 3 because it is seem to be irrational. Well whatever I somewhat agree overall, as I did like BvS UC, granted if I have to watch a three hour Snyder movie, I rather rewatch Watchmen.

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#25 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (12493 posts) - - Show Bio

Geoff Johns is the only possible savior of the DCEU

~MiB

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#26 Posted by deactivated-5c9535a734784 (2578 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Re-read. Sorry, went a bit gungho. I agree with what you're saying, my personal distaste of Snyder and his films aside, but WB need to stop interfering. Granted it's a lot of damn money to let someone go full tilt and risk losing everything but they need to have faith. Something the MCU seems to be able to do.

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#27 Edited by Petey_is_Spidey (11675 posts) - - Show Bio

@soldierofel said:

@petey_is_spidey: Re-read. Sorry, went a bit gungho. I agree with what you're saying, my personal distaste of Snyder and his films aside, but WB need to stop interfering. Granted it's a lot of damn money to let someone go full tilt and risk losing everything but they need to have faith. Something the MCU seems to be able to do.

No Caption Provided

But yeah, this will continue to happen until WB decide to let their director's direct. After all that BS about "letting the directors have the control" and "the tone depending on who's directing it".

I can say all I want about the MCU, but at least they know what they're doing (well, for the most part).

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5c9535a734784 (2578 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey:

Agreed. You could argue that they're trying to protect their investment but making two different cuts, one made by a trailer company and one by the actual director is pretty shady.
Agreed. You could argue that they're trying to protect their investment but making two different cuts, one made by a trailer company and one by the actual director is pretty shady.

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#29 Posted by mindleech (742 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I think that DCEU got a much better start than the MCU .

I mean .. movies like Cap : The First Avenger, Thor movies (lol) , and the Hulk movies (and yes Iron Man 3)(also Iron Man 2 kinda) are far worse than MoS and BvS .

Then again Marvel was first to start the universe and DC got to look and learn from the mistakes...

But I am really pleased with the DCEU right now. The hate is nonsense. It's like people are asking for perfection from the first step forward.

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#30 Posted by Saint_Sophie (7263 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_sophie said:

What does UC stand for? Sorry I don't really know.. and if it's something obvious then well haha on me.

xoxo, -Saint Sophie

Ultimate Cut. Some call it Directors Cut, Ultimate Edition, or Extended Cut.

Okay. I always called it Directors Cut so that's probably why. Thank you!

xoxo, -Saint Sophie

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#31 Posted by deactivated-5a0c8d423f980 (1863 posts) - - Show Bio

We all know it's great and we're going to love it no matter what the critics say so can't we just move on

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#32 Posted by iknowwhoyouare (1631 posts) - - Show Bio

You were right. I was wrong. I'm willing to admit I had that thought despite having no memory of posting such on this site.

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#33 Posted by TheAmazingSpidey (17664 posts) - - Show Bio

I still feel Snyder is a bad director and poor decision to be directing these movies. Though it is clear WB really isnt helping matters. The DCEU is dead and they just need to bury it.

The DCeU is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.

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#34 Posted by ScouterV (7764 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman3000: Yeah and it will likely get to a point where it does stop making money with all the bad buzz.

If they make money despite bad reviews, that sounds more a point to ignore critics and just go see the film yourself if people are willing to support it.

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#35 Posted by CaptainMarvel4Ever (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkdetective27 said:

I still feel Snyder is a bad director and poor decision to be directing these movies. Though it is clear WB really isnt helping matters. The DCEU is dead and they just need to bury it.

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#36 Edited by The_Kidd (12178 posts) - - Show Bio

I knew this would a DCEU thread just from the title alone.

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#37 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by KrleAvenger (26081 posts) - - Show Bio

Snyder made some solid movies and we see he is a comic book fan. He has the potential but studios suck.

Still we have Doomsday, unneeded death, Batkiller, Non-Superman Superman, Lois Lane who does nothing in the movie, too many plots, stupid Lex Luthor and MARTHA.

But when you look at toher movies Snyder directed it is not his fault really but it totally looks like Warner Bros shit.

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#39 Posted by Mfundroid (2916 posts) - - Show Bio

More like the DC Extended Cut Universe, amirite?! I'll show myself out now.

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#40 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11675 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Lois Lane who does nothing in the movie

Except ground Clark in humanity, show how badass of a reporter she is, and figuring out that Lex Luthor was responsible for the Africa attack. What more do you want her to do?

At least she's not like the Donner Lois Lane who's a moron and has the spelling of a 5 year old child.

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#41 Posted by TOATOAA (1195 posts) - - Show Bio

ok hold up you guy's i just watched the ultimate cut of BvS

i really enjoyed it i didnt expected to be that good all my problems with the original cut were fixed superman had more screen time the action scenes were fantastic and overall this ultimate cut really showed me that snyder is more than just a decent director

i did at first put the blame on him when i first saw BvS original cut but after watching this and like you said it was the poor management at the WB studios

next time Warner bros should let snyder actually do his JOB

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#42 Posted by KrleAvenger (26081 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Her role is pointless. It's all about one bullet. We could easily find out Lex is a bad guy. I think they just tried to give Lois a role to play but more or less it was making the movie longer without allowing greater plot for Superman or Batman or something else. And there is that unneeded scene with her almost drowning by trying to take the spear. I don't know it just looks like they tried so hard to give her a role. Not only that her detective work was boring to watch but it was totally unneeded for the plot IMO.

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#43 Edited by PeterParkerJr (6767 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey said:

Fast forward another month to now, and what happened? The complete incompetence of WB, and knee jerk reaction they had over BvS prompted them to cut out 30 minutes of the film, reshoot more "funny" moments, and re-edit the entirety of the film. You know what that resulted in? Critics trashing the crap out of the film. Granted, the film might benefit from being a fun movie, which audiences seem to take more of a liking to, and can still make a killing at the Box Office (Just see IM2, Thor: the Dark World, and IM 2. Granted, IM3 was better received by fans than IM2 and Thor, but it was nothing spectacular); "fun" movies, no matter how trashy they are, will always receive better fan reception than "non fun" movies. For some reason people in general seem to be more forgiving of a movie's flaws if you inject a little humor into it and the characters' don't seem to take too much seriously. It's why some people legitimately think IM3 is a superior film to MoS.

Smh. This bugs me so much. I like fun movies myself, but we've reached a point where it's like nothing can be serious anymore. If something is too serious; "It's too dark!" "It's not FUN enough!" While "Fun" movies can get away with a lot of stupid BS as long as there's plenty humor and light-heartedness in it.

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#44 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (11675 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Her role is pointless. It's all about one bullet. We could easily find out Lex is a bad guy. I think they just tried to give Lois a role to play but more or less it was making the movie longer without allowing greater plot for Superman or Batman or something else. And there is that unneeded scene with her almost drowning by trying to take the spear. I don't know it just looks like they tried so hard to give her a role. Not only that her detective work was boring to watch but it was totally unneeded for the plot IMO.

She still plays a big part in grounding Clark to humanity and also is a huge role in Clark's personal life. Without her, we wouldn't know much about Clark's life, and without her Clark wouldn't have anyone close to him (he'd still have Martha but she's hundreds of miles away). She's a big part of his mythos and to not include her in the plot would be like to exclude Aunt May in Spiderman movies, or exclude Alfred in a Batman movie, since both of those characters don't particularly do anything that is needed for the plot. However, if Snyder didn't that, he'd get huge waves of hate and criticism.

You can't exclude somebody like Lois from the Superman mythos, and Snyder has done a far better job at handling her than pretty much any other live action version.

You can't blame Snyder for Superman's mythos....

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#45 Posted by Dewin50 (1453 posts) - - Show Bio

SS was good tough, compared to what most of all the reviewers say. Not great but good.

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#46 Posted by KrleAvenger (26081 posts) - - Show Bio

@petey_is_spidey: Neither am I blaming Snyder neither did I say we should remove Lois. All I said is that her plot in the movie (minus their relationship) was shitty.