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Posted by Life_Without_Progress (24020 posts) 1 year, 11 months ago

Poll: "Hail Hydra." or "Gorr was right.": Which line ruined an iconic Marvel character more? (92 votes)

Captain America's "Hail Hydra." 43%
Thor's "Gorr was right." 57%
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#1 Posted by kyrees (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

"gorr was right" basically made thor a weak minded god.

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#2 Posted by Rubear (4643 posts) - - Show Bio

@kyrees said:

"gorr was right" basically made thor a weak minded god.

Like spineless weakling without any semblense of strong will.

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#3 Posted by LordWhiskers (731 posts) - - Show Bio

Both were horrible, but the Gorr one takes the cake. Thor doubts himself from a genocidal maniac despite overcoming previous odds even Gorr's own philosophy in the same comic. Bullshit straight to the core.

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#4 Posted by Thatlyn Yoaeg'ill'rymmin (4187 posts) - - Show Bio

The real lines that have ruined comics book world coming everyday from the so called "Fans"...

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#5 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio

Hail Hydra ruined Cap and his history, from what I here Unworthy Thor was a good book and Gorr was right was only a dumb plot device.

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#8 Posted by Buckwheat (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't Cap brainwashed when he said that?

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#9 Posted by BullPR (5841 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

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#10 Posted by Battle123axe (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@rubear said:
@kyrees said:

"gorr was right" basically made thor a weak minded god.

Like spineless weakling without any semblense of strong will.

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#11 Posted by SpitfirePanda (2573 posts) - - Show Bio

I really enjoyed the Godbomb run. It's the only Thor run I've read, and I was going to use it and Secret Wars to really get into Marvel. "Gorr was right" is just dumb, though. How is it that Thor spends years in his youth as a slave of Gorr, and hundreds of years as Old King Thor fighting against Gorr and he still isn't convinced of Gorr's side? Heck, mortals can be awful, too. Gorr is a prime example of that! Yet a simple whisper from Fury makes Thor think "Huh, maybe Gorr was right!" How? If we're going to make the argument that Thor secretly believed this himself after his encounter with Gorr, wouldn't he be unworthy before the whisper? Then we see that he was worthy again just before fighting the Beyonders alongside Hyperion. Where in that scene did he suddenly think "Huh, I'm worthy now"? I really want to like Thor, both the male and female versions, but I can't. The writing is too poor.

As for Hydra Cap, as I understand it this is the new normal for him. He's a villain now and will be going forward. It's dumb, but at least it's funny. Hopefully we get some good memes out of Thor's stupidity.

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#12 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (17940 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither are irreversible as this is comics but id i had to choose, it'd be the Thor one. It's implying that this is who he truly is and always has been whereas with Cap is just the victim of KobiKS reality warps/Red Skull's latest schemes

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#13 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (17940 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat: yes and no. Kobik altered reality/history so that Cap was a Hydra agent since his youth.

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#14 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12310 posts) - - Show Bio

Gorr. I'm thinking "The Whisper" was something that unlocks the secrets of the Multiverse...when low and behold it was some sh!t I could've told Thor. I'm not too angry about as I half expected it to be something idiotic anyways ­čÖä­čśĆ

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#15 Posted by RabumAlal (4866 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't remember a Cap comic being remotely interesting before Spencer so Thor by default.

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#16 Posted by Eto (5221 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (45774 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabumalal: Then you've never read a Cap comic before Spencer.

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#19 Posted by Warlockmage (9039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Eto (5221 posts) - - Show Bio

The real lines that have ruined comics book world coming everyday from the so called "Fans"...

Yeah....

Just no

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#21 Edited by laughingbatman (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

@eto said:
@thatlyn_yoaeg_ill_rymmin said:

The real lines that have ruined comics book world coming everyday from the so called "Fans"...

Yeah....

Just no

I thought the same thing.

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#22 Posted by Aros001 (3607 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have to go with Gorr. While people don't like the Captain Hydra concept, it at least has an explanation fr it that makes sense. Thor becoming unworthy because of Fury saying Gorr was right not only contradicts so much of what came before but is a completely unsatisfying answer to the question Marvel hid and danced around for years.

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#23 Posted by Green_Tea (10402 posts) - - Show Bio

It's amazing how one single line can actually ruin what was a pretty nice mini series, no really, all that build up and he never uses the hammer to fight off Thanos and his minions, anti climatic as hell. How the hell do we go from the amazing God Bomb arc to something like this?

"Gorr was right" eat a bag of shit Jason.

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#24 Posted by EarthsMightiest (2765 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither was ruined, it's just a comic chill man.

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#26 Posted by IceDemonKing (9982 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked unworthy thor, it for me was good. The whisper was kind of predictable but that didn't bother me. Didn't read the comic were cap says hail hyrda so can't speak for that.

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#27 Posted by uugieboogie (13023 posts) - - Show Bio

Both lines equally pissed me off and ruined both characters for me. But seeing Captain America saying "Hail Hydra" is just wrong on so many levels.

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#28 Edited by Asgaard (4370 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordwhiskers said:

Both were horrible, but the Gorr one takes the cake. Thor doubts himself from a genocidal maniac despite overcoming previous odds even Gorr's own philosophy in the same comic. Bullshit straight to the core.

Yes... Here is a scan from Uncanny Avengers vol 1, that i would like people to see so they could understand better who is Thor and the other Asgardians... They are very different from the characters that Aaron currently portrays...

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#29 Posted by Grayhold (122 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is butchered beyond oblivion.

Aaron needs to stop torturing Thor.

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#30 Posted by youmessinwithme (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap had been mind controlled/ fundamentally altered by Reality warping when he said that and went all Evil. Thor was just being a wiener. That's definitely worse.

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#31 Edited by Thor_Parker82 (15972 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason Aaron is the worst thing that has happened to Thor, not only was the whisper complete bullshit, but it also doesn┬┤t even make sense, someone isn┬┤t worthy based on what he thinks of himself, it┬┤s the enchantment that judges, so even if someone thinks he isn┬┤t worthy but the hammer decides otherwise, he┬┤d be able to lift it.

Both are horrible though.

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#32 Edited by Yassassin (7636 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, Captain is just a pretty hero gone bad story, but otherwise, it's pretty harmless all things considered.

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#33 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15349 posts) - - Show Bio

Hail Hydra is so iconic. I just found out about Thor's line now.

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#34 Posted by kgb725 (18354 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: Hydra Cao is great not sure what you're talking about and second did you ever think k that Thor lost faith in the gods .

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#35 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (15972 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@thor_parker82: Hydra Cao is great not sure what you're talking about and second did you ever think k that Thor lost faith in the gods .

Hydra Cap is not great in universe, it┬┤s a good story and very well written but what it┬┤s doing to Captain America┬┤s character will be very hard to come back from, if this was an alternate universe story I┬┤d be praising the hell out of it, because it is good, but what it will mean to the character in the long run will be more bad than good.

As for Thor, it doesn┬┤t matter what he thinks, the enchantment has never worked on people believing in themselves, the enchantment on the hammer decides if you are worthy regardless of what you may think, for example, Captain America thought he was unworthy and he was still able to lift it.

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#36 Posted by kgb725 (18354 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: People say that about alot of things like Secret Wars.

Losing faith in everything you believe in would cause you to become unworthy. Also it's never been said what makes someone worthy or not BRB lost his hammer when he thought he was doing the right thing

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#37 Posted by Mutant1230 (6374 posts) - - Show Bio

Hail Hydra.

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#38 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (15972 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@thor_parker82: People say that about alot of things like Secret Wars.

Losing faith in everything you believe in would cause you to become unworthy. Also it's never been said what makes someone worthy or not BRB lost his hammer when he thought he was doing the right thing

The difference is that the majority likes SW.

No, it wouldn┬┤t, you are not worthy based on what you think of yourself, you are worthy based on your values and beliefs and the enchantment placed by Odin decides that, not the characters┬┤ thoughts.

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#39 Posted by kgb725 (18354 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: Most people hated hydra cap before the story went anywhere with it. Being reactionary doesn't help

You're literally forgetting the part where I said everything he believed in is probably a lie to him now

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#40 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (15972 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@thor_parker82: Most people hated hydra cap before the story went anywhere with it. Being reactionary doesn't help

You're literally forgetting the part where I said everything he believed in is probably a lie to him now

Well, I can┬┤t argue that, but the concept itself is trash so people had a right to be reactionary.

Not really, he already questioned whether what Gorr said was right or not before in Aaron┬┤s own story arc and he didn┬┤t become unworthy because of it.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

See for yourself.

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#41 Posted by OneWithReason (775 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Edited by LordWhiskers (731 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

@thor_parker82: Most people hated hydra cap before the story went anywhere with it. Being reactionary doesn't help

You're literally forgetting the part where I said everything he believed in is probably a lie to him now

People hated Hydra Cap because literally years after having the serum gone from his body and being an old man, they finally bring back Steve only to introduce some petty shock value at the expense of long time readers. Hydra Cap makes little to no sense, because as an Irish American character whos fought tyrannical organizations at the expense of his own life and made by Jewish creators its an immense disrespect and 180 to his character. It was done purely to garner book sales like 3/4 of Marvel's gimmicks and asspulls in the last 2-3 years. Thats why people are upset. Not to mention having Falcon randomly adopt the Captain America name out of nowhere. Still wondering what was going through Marvels head with that inorganic exchange.

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#43 Posted by APEX_pretador (19655 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos is dying!!!

Seriously though, Gorr is right takes the win. It is a complete ridiculous idea.

Jason Aaron is the worst thing that has happened to Thor, not only was the whisper complete bullshit, but it also doesn┬┤t even make sense, someone isn┬┤t worthy based on what he thinks of himself, it┬┤s the enchantment that judges, so even if someone thinks he isn┬┤t worthy but the hammer decides otherwise, he┬┤d be able to lift it.

Both are horrible though.

Yep

Online
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#44 Posted by MOWJACK (1270 posts) - - Show Bio

Aaron is making bendis look nice.

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#45 Edited by lettsplay10 (20589 posts) - - Show Bio

Hail Hydra

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#46 Posted by Buckwheat (2259 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat: yes and no. Kobik altered reality/history so that Cap was a Hydra agent since his youth.

So perhaps once the idea gets boring they will get Kobik, or some other reality warper, to alter history again and make things as always. Isn't that a realistic possibility?

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#47 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (17940 posts) - - Show Bio

@buckwheat: yup yup. I'm pretty sure that's what's gonna happen.

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#48 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12469 posts) - - Show Bio

Both were horrible, but the Gorr one takes the cake. Thor doubts himself from a genocidal maniac despite overcoming previous odds even Gorr's own philosophy in the same comic. Bullshit straight to the core.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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#49 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

Hail Hydra was symbolically worse, it destroys the character's legacy to it's fundamentals. On the other hand, "gorr was right" shows off how bad an idea can be conceived, and how badly it can be executed.

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#50 Posted by Jbourne_32 (2224 posts) - - Show Bio

Ruined the character in the sense that Thor is really weak now. But I thought the whisper was pretty clever, now he just needs to make thor take action, like rebel against all gods and fight alongside the mortals against them. If he doesn't build on it becomes pretty dumb