Goku Falters As a Superman Analogy

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HighAccuser

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#1  Edited By HighAccuser

Often times I've found myself asking a small question at the back of my mind. Sometimes I rarely ponder on it, but here I think its finally time to bring some light to it. Where did the Goku and Superman rivalry start and why did the flames of it spread so quick and far to the corners of the Internet? I mean I at best I never considered a character who is inspired by another to have battles and rivalries with their inspiration. It just seems tacky, because of the vast amount of influence that Superman has on Goku.

Let me explain.

Everybody knows the the story of Superman. Its a huge part of pop culture and ingrained into the minds of generations for decades. The sole survivor of an advanced race, shipped off to another planet before his people's untimely demise.

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And this is a great mythos! It is excellent worldbuilding and solidifies the protagonist that is Superman as the sole survivor of his race, a pioneer and legacy of his people and the hopes of a race that he can aspire to do great things.

Toriyama also took inspiration from this origin and had Goku as an alien boy sent off to Earth before the planets destruction. And the inspiration and resemblance is so uncanny.

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However we should also take heed to notice some very striking differences and the circumstances of which both heroes were sent to Earth and their respective reasons.

Superman was sent to the planet Earth, not just to survive the upcoming cataclysm, but to be an inspiration and an ideal among the planets populace. A humble, endearing and charismatic figure who would guide mankind with a helping hand.

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You can feel the air of power and presence that Superman commands. He transcends the simple ideas and notions of just being a costumed "superhero" and embodies all the best traits that mankind can offer to one another. To grow, to love, to build a lasting foundation and to go to new heights.

For Goku however I must feel that he is sorely lacking in that regard. Which may have been intentional, yet seems completely contradictory when you consider how much he borrows from the classic Superman. As the series of Dragonball progresses we later find out that Goku was sent to Earth from a violent race of warlords who send their infants to conquer inhabited worlds. All Saiyan young are extremely aggressive, agitated, and have a cold disposition which would ensure that the planets they conquer could easily fall under their sway. Notice the contrasting difference between both races the Kryptonians and Saiyans.

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And as later shown in the series, contrary to his humble, warm upbringing Goku proceeded to attack his adoptive father the moment he emerged out of his pod. I dare say, that Grandpa Gohan would have been killed had Goku not fallen down the ravine. And ironically Goku did proceed to kill his Grandpa Gohan.

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I feel that the irony of Goku not being sent to Earth to help its people, but rather ensure their extinction down the line was a bit of a flaw when you consider that his origins has a heavy parallel in regards to Superman. And while we can certainly say that Goku becomes a hero and a protagonist down the line can we really say that hes "man of the people" or "man of tomorrow" like Superman is? Allow me to elaborate.

Superman is known for wanting to go out and do good. He has an altruistic desire to help others and he can't just idly sit by and watch helplessly when he knows that with his great power, he can do so much more. Supermans entire creed and reasons for being who he is, is that no matter what may come his way or whatever trials come to him, that he will always fight for those in need.

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Goku is known many times throughout the series of Dragon Ball to fight for selfish reasons, sorely for himself only to instill a sense of rivalry for himself without regard to the safety of others nor the ramifcations of those who who have suffered because of it. A striking moment here, is when Goku let Vegeta go, so he could fight him again....but Vegeta had just killed most of the friends he grew up with and fought alongside?!

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And again we see that happen many times throughout the series. Goku gives the mass murderer of thousands of humans and a being who has antagonized his friends and family, and would even vow to destroy more lives...a senzu bean? And he also could've defeated the demon known as Majin Buu much earlier throughout the series, only changing his mind because he felt that the next generation should be given the chance...and at the expense of millions potentially billions?

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When you consider these alarming factors into play the hurtful irony is apparent that while Goku may draw heavily from Superman, he embodies nothing from him. I can say as a fan of both, I would be hard pressed to see Superman do the same thing in these situations. Despite Goku being a selfish protagonist and even with his immense power I feel that he would do a disservice even as an inspiration of Superman which would be completely contradictory given his conception.

Superman is also known for wanting to live among people while he continues to help them out. He has responsibilities a job, a family, and manages his heroic life with that of a human life. As seen by a quote from him to Wonder Woman in Spirit of Truth.

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Superman as a protagonist has an extensive life to uphold and one that he wants to do. Its not just about being "super" its about being human which Superman considers himself to be. Superman considers himself human because of the love his parents gave him and the personality he has. In retrospects, Goku has never had a real job, no education to his name, and is known for being callously irresponsible with how he manages his family life and his...well love of fighting as referenced earlier. Goku doesn't actively seek to go out into the world or even greater universe and help the human race. Despite being on a loose affiliation of associates called the "Z Warriors" could we really say that they uphold the desire, code and drive that the Justice League of America has? It pains me to say that is not the case for the ensemble cast of Dragon Ball.

Even with these striking parallels, inspirations and influence Goku draws from Superman I feel that is ironic that he fails to live up to anything that his predecessor embodies. Which isn't to say that all inspirations should be like their counterparts...but Superman is so much more than a character in a comic or a superhero....he is the true and endearing embodiment that will last generations and continue to uphold all that is good and everlasting about humanity. Would it be accurate to say, that Goku doesn't do a disservice to a character, but to an ideal that is intrinsic to what is morally good about the human race? Would that be even a greater crime? In truth it is a matter left up to you as the readers and fans of the characters.

I thank you if you have taken the time to read this. As we are all here to get more exposition on why and how these elements of pop culture may stand as they do now.

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Goldchamp101

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Perfect analysis. Preach the truth!

Quote if you agree.

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Thedarkpaladin

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HighAccuser

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dernman

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Shouldn't the title be Superman falters as a Goku inspiration?

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HighAccuser

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#8  Edited By HighAccuser

@dernman said:

Shouldn't the title be Superman falters as a Goku inspiration?

edited the title.

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DarthAznable

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Oh lord.

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Green_Tea

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HighAccuser

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buttersdaman000

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#14  Edited By buttersdaman000

Nice write up, but Goku was never intended to embody the same ideals Superman does. He was always intended to just be a selfish, light hearted good guy who likes to fight. To say that Superman serves as an inspiration for his character, while not completely untrue, would be like saying Batman inspired Spider-Man simply because they both were driven by the lost of parents (or a parental figure) to fight crime. The surface level similarities are there, but that's about it. As to why the flame wars started? Superman is the standard of comics. Goku is the standard of manga. It was inevitable.

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Omega_kai

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StardustCrusader

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@buttersdaman000:

Goku is the standard of manga.

I promise you it's not that low.

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Lvenger

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@buttersdaman000: What about the dialogue that the English dub companies changed when DBZ was first English dubbed? Stuff like Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and Goku's Super Saiyan speech about being the hope of the universe, the light in the darkness and ally to good was basically making him sound like Superman. But you're right, Superman being the icon of comics and Goku the icon of manga is why these two have such an intense rivalry amongst their fandom and on battle board debates.

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Lvenger

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#19  Edited By Lvenger

But even though Super Saiyan God Goku can walk all over Superman now, Superman's always been the much better and thought provoking character. That's why the end of the Death Battle rematch between Goku and Superman pi$$ed me off so much because they made Superman sound like a boring goody two shoes whereas they implied Goku's journey to be the strongest fighter made for better character development.

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PrinceAragorn1

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Rofl, well played.

A bit too long though.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@lvenger: that's how it is though, stay mad :p

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DarthAznable

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#22  Edited By DarthAznable

@lvenger: That was just for the English dub tho. Same with the new soundtrack.

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Corvin123

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@nerevarine_11: Next time simply write: "I hate Goku because I am a Superman fan" and do not try to pack it in some fake sentimentalism.

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buttersdaman000

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#24  Edited By buttersdaman000

@lvenger said:

@buttersdaman000: What about the dialogue that the English dub companies changed when DBZ was first English dubbed? Stuff like Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and Goku's Super Saiyan speech about being the hope of the universe, the light in the darkness and ally to good was basically making him sound like Superman. But you're right, Superman being the icon of comics and Goku the icon of manga is why these two have such an intense rivalry amongst their fandom and on battle board debates.

Like you said, that stuff was changed. That was never the original intent. Also, Bardock was always just a warrior.....I don't remember the english dub ever saying he was a scientist.

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DeathWingTerminatorT1000

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Nice write up, but Goku was never intended to embody the same ideals Superman does. He was always intended to just be a selfish, light hearted good guy who likes to fight. To say that Superman serves as an inspiration for his character, while not completely untrue, would be like saying Batman inspired Spider-Man simply because they both were driven by the lost of parents (or a parental figure) to fight crime. The surface level similarities are there, but that's about it. As to why the flame wars started? Superman is the standard of comics. Goku is the standard of manga. It was inevitable.

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Lvenger

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@lvenger said:

@buttersdaman000: What about the dialogue that the English dub companies changed when DBZ was first English dubbed? Stuff like Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and Goku's Super Saiyan speech about being the hope of the universe, the light in the darkness and ally to good was basically making him sound like Superman. But you're right, Superman being the icon of comics and Goku the icon of manga is why these two have such an intense rivalry amongst their fandom and on battle board debates.

Like you said, that stuff was changed. That was never the original intent. Also, Bardock was always just a warrior.....I don't remember the english dub ever saying he was a scientist.

Ah that was because it was in the Ocean dub of Dragon Ball Z, the same dub that popularised the Over 9,000 meme. Here's the video.

Loading Video...

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Lvenger

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#28  Edited By zaied

@buttersdaman000 said:

Like you said, that stuff was changed. That was never the original intent. Also, Bardock was always just a warrior.....I don't remember the english dub ever saying he was a scientist.

I believe it was Vegeta in the Ocean Dub that referred to Bardock as a scientist.

Edit: Never mind, video was posted above.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@lvenger:

"Superman's power is limitless though."

Like his blandness.

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Lvenger

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Sy8000

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Superman is a far better character.

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Darth_Nimrod

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Nice analysis.

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PrinceAragorn1

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@lvenger: still better than keeling over just by looking at a rock.

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IndomitableRegal

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I'm going to back out of this because I honestly feel like I'd end up debating damn near every user here. For me, Goku>Superman in every way. Goku was more inspired by the Monkey King anyway. Other than a few surface details, Goku wasn't meant to be like Superman, and I don't see how you can call the parts that make him a different character altogether "flaws". But I've already said too much so...

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buttersdaman000

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I'm going to back out of this because I honestly feel like I'd end up debating damn near every user here. For me, Goku>Superman in every way. Goku was more inspired by the Monkey King anyway. Other than a few surface details, Goku wasn't meant to be like Superman, and I don't see how you can call the parts that make him a different character altogether "flaws". But I've already said too much so...

This seems a little disingenuous to be honest....you don't have to reply, I just wanted to point that out

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#37 emperorthanos-  Moderator

Nice write up, but Goku was never intended to embody the same ideals Superman does. He was always intended to just be a selfish, light hearted good guy who likes to fight. To say that Superman serves as an inspiration for his character, while not completely untrue, would be like saying Batman inspired Spider-Man simply because they both were driven by the lost of parents (or a parental figure) to fight crime. The surface level similarities are there, but that's about it. As to why the flame wars started? Superman is the standard of comics. Goku is the standard of manga. It was inevitable.

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#39 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lvenger: The english dub specifically made him more like Superman. Goku was always selfish and fought for his own entertainment and Bardock was always a warrior. It's because the english dub version of Goku is the probably the most well known version of him, so he seemed based of Superman. DB super really shows the Goku that Akira really wanted to write about, a dumb idiot who only cares about fighting a pretty much nothing else.

I mean the fact that Goku and the Z fighters only really faced threats they themselves were responsible for.

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ScouterV

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@lvenger: The english dub specifically made him more like Superman. Goku was always selfish and fought for his own entertainment and Bardock was always a warrior. It's because the english dub version of Goku is the probably the most well known version of him, so he seemed based of Superman. DB super really shows the Goku that Akira really wanted to write about, a dumb idiot who only cares about fighting a pretty much nothing else.

I mean the fact that Goku and the Z fighters only really faced threats they themselves were responsible for.

To be fair, most threats in DB were either in Goku's way of collecting the Dragon Balls, but were probably already on the road to mayhem. Either that, or they were just opponents from the tournaments.

From DBZ, the Saiyans and Frieza started off the series. Raditz attacked Goku, Piccolo killed him, but it sounds like Vegeta and Nappa were pretty interested in the Dragonballs regardless. Frieza and his forces were already on Namek before the Z-Crew.

The Androids and Gero were a retcon, but again, they were already bad before Goku made them his enemies.

Majin Buu was going to be released regardless, since that was Babidi's mission--unleash Buu. If anything, it was good the Z-Fighters were there.

The Oracle fish told Beerus about the Super Saiyan God.

I disagree that they were responsible, unless you wanna go with the whole "if Goku never landed on Earth" argument.

@lvenger said:

But even though Super Saiyan God Goku can walk all over Superman now, Superman's always been the much better and thought provoking character. That's why the end of the Death Battle rematch between Goku and Superman pi$$ed me off so much because they made Superman sound like a boring goody two shoes whereas they implied Goku's journey to be the strongest fighter made for better character development.

For what it's worth, Superman is also a much older character than Goku. And Gokus' original background as a being based on Son Wukong strikes me as an already solid difference.

And I'll give the side stories with Bardock a lot of leeway, but Bardock was not a scientist. He was maybe an expert at combat, and arguably the second strongest--(possibly third) Saiyan alive at the time, but he was no scientist. Even if I buy he created the Power Ball, that again, leans more towards an expected skill at combat.

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Light1150

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Like butters said goku was and never will be how I will put "the Japanese superman" sure Toriyama said that some of his organization was like superman, but only the dieing planet part and even then it was meniscule detail in his mind. Goku also is never ment to be Clark, he is suppose to be a modern day version of Sun Wukong. Son Goku literally means Sun Wukong in Japanese. Goku likes to fight, selfish, kind, light hearted, and tends to get violent and his power stems from raw emotion. Superman is selfless, does not like violence or to fight and is very tempered and kind. Goku kills regularly if he deems it necessary, Superman only uses it as an extreme last resort. The only reason they are brought up together in battle is because of fanboys.

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deactivated-5a853424245e3

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@solid_snake97 and @cruelestashley what are your thoughts my fellow Viner associates?

A fine ode to the Man of Tomorrow. Toriyama himself has gone on record and stated Goku's "not such a good a guy", or something to that effect, only further evidencing what a volatilely inept role model he is--ill fit to for children to look up to just beneath the crest of self-awareness. A shame that he even as an idiot savant, hailed as a martial expert, doesn't even stack up the likes of Silver Age Dick Grayson on a bad day. God form or otherwise, his feats are lacking and it's clear he would not only succumb to mighty Kryptonian laser beams, but the heel of Diana's boot as well.

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HighAccuser

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@nerevarine_11: Next time simply write: "I hate Goku because I am a Superman fan" and do not try to pack it in some fake sentimentalism.

Did you even read the analysis or did you just simply skip to accusations and ad-hominem? I don't see why you'd attribute something a person wrote as "fake sentimentalism" unless thats your own insecurities over an opinion piece. At least read what somebody typed instead of dismissing it because you skimmed through it.

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HighAccuser

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#45 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@scouterv: maybe I worded it incorrectly. It's not that they were directly at fault but the threats were there because of them. They all had some connection to the z fighters. Atleast DBZ onwards

Raditz came to earth because of Goku. And after Piccolo killed them the other saiyains arrived because of this. They wouldn't have come if Raditz's wasn't killed.

Frieza and his army would probably have never come to Earth. It was Gohan and Krillin who went to Namek. Where Vegeta joined forces with them which eventually led to Piccolo and Goku joining the battle.

Frieza then came to earth to destroy the plaent until trunks killed. He would come back again even stronger just to kill Goku.

Cell and the Androids were pretty much created to kill Goku. Then Vegeta even helped Cell achieve his perfect form.

Majin Buu only got unleashed because of the Z fighters having the energy to revive him. On top of that, they could have ended the whole on multiple occasions but Vegeta let himself become a majin just to fight Goku, Goku didn't want to beat Majin Buu as an SSJ3.

Beerus came to Earth because of the saiyans.

Frieza came back for revenge.

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EdBeatle

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While Goku does have some inspiration from Superman, he's mostly based on Journey to the West, it's the english dub that marked Goku as the Japanese Superman.

Good analysis tho, but all in the table, this is more like a comparison between the both, not really an analogy or inspiration but good job regardless

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ScouterV

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@emperorthanos: You make it sound like Goku chose to go to Earth. He was sent there as a baby. By that logic, Bardock is the one at fault.

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#48  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@scouterv: I said he wasn't directly at fault. But he is the reason the threats came to Earth. And those are the only threats he dealt with.

He is not some superhero fighting crime. The threats he dealt with were somehow related to him.

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MetalJimmor

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Nice comparison. I always felt Gohan was shaping up to be a much more Superman-esque figure than his father was with the whole Saiyaman arc. He's the one who genuinely cares about saving people. He's only ever fought out of necessity and to save the Earth.

I really wish Toriyama had kept to that set up. Gohan taking on the mantle of protector of Earth would've been such a natural progression of the story of Dragonball. Alas it was not meant to be.

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buttersdaman000

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@buttersdaman000: Can't help but ask, how could it seem disingenuous?

I know everybody has their own personal taste, and Goku is one of my favorite characters, but saying that Goku is superior to Superman in every way, in this context, would be like saying Grown Ups 2 is superior to The Dark Knight in every way.

IMO

I mean, to put it in perspective, just last week Goku was weirded out by a kiss....his character has actually been regressing into something shamefully simplistic. Superman, however, is just objectively better written and more fleshed out.

That's just the one area where I think a lot of DBZ fans have a big chip on their shoulder about lol