Goku doesn't use skill ?

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midnightdragon18

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People say dbz is just fast punches and explosions.

People say goku use skill to beat his opponents.

How exactly would goku use skill to beat majin buu, someone with nigh infinite regeneration. How would he use his skill to beat cell, who can also regenerate?

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JuzaCloud

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@midnightdragon18: DBZ characters are amongst the most skilled martial artist in comics/manga. The fast punches and kicks animations are there to remind us they are fighting really fast. As you can see, in between those rapid attacks they have certain instances where they show proper martial arts punches, kicks, counters, blocks etc.

When characters fight at these MFTL speeds it may look like wild dog fights, but it isn't. This is the same for most fast fighting anime characters.

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AkshSarpanch

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Goku is one of best martial arts in comics and manga. Same applies to Vegeta and other z fighters.

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The_New_Avenger

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They are really skilled in H2h but they don't need it if the character is weaker than them because they can just blast them.

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BlackWind

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The outcomes of those fights didn't come down to skill. It just needed to end by completely blowing up the enemy so there was nothing left to regenerate.

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Ki manipulation is a skill. They have to train to be able to do that. Ki manipulation is also responsible for their physical strength and durability too. Beyond basic Saiyan physical stats, everything past that point, is from skill.

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Blade_R

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@midnightdragon18: DBZ characters are amongst the most skilled martial artist in comics/manga. The fast punches and kicks animations are there to remind us they are fighting really fast. As you can see, in between those rapid attacks they have certain instances where they show proper martial arts punches, kicks, counters, blocks etc.

When characters fight at these MFTL speeds it may look like wild dog fights, but it isn't. This is the same for most fast fighting anime characters.

Bam! This ^ nailed it.

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Chazz85

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Goku did use skill against Buu and cell a lot early on which is why they get blown in half a lot and i mean a lot. You also see when he fights freeza his actual martial arts training was keeping him alive before he went SSJ. When he fights up until the freeza battle he focuses heavily on skill. it just seems less relevant due to regeneration. Then by the time beerus showed up a there fighting so fast you don't notice.

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Heatforce

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yes goku uses skill but IMO the fight choreography isn't as cool as I'd like it to be. When they do fast punches H2H and quick ki blasts is always more enjoyable than long, drawn out special moves that should honestly get them speed-blitzed.

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never give up

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Goku vs Cell is a perfect example of Goku's skills and abilities in a fight.

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TheDeathstar

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#11  Edited By TheDeathstar

Anyone who watched Dragon Ball would know that Goku is leagues above these guys let alone anyone else. He uses his skills in every fight even the guys like Master Roshi who lived for more than 350+ years claim themselves that his skills are far beyond them and is one the best Martial Artist in fiction. He can even go toe to toe against a God who uses Hapkido as a base and have combat experience of more than 100 millions years. Not only that he trained his entire life perfecting MMA to a Godly degree but is known as the Bruce Lee of Dragon Ball.

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Here's what even bias Screwattack had to say on this (from their Deathbattle): "Goku might just be the best Martial Artist in fiction"

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Just_Banter

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They're skilled, but I'm unconvinced that they're amongst the most skilled in fiction. If you brought all stats on the level, I'd be interested to see what they could do against Kenshin, Batman, or someone else along those lines. They're nowhere near the most skilled either, but I don't think DBZ characters have skill feats better than them.

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micah007123

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#13  Edited By micah007123

No one seriously doubts their skill. The DB Earth has world famous martial arts schools out the woodwork. Several of which have produced fighters like Roshi (known as the "God of Martial Arts"), Tien, Tao, Yamcha (Yes early DB Wolf Fang Fist was a powerful technique), ect. And these are just the main examples, not including the numerous martial arts eluded to and showcased in the series such as Drunken Fist, Kenpo, Shaolin Kung Fu, and more recently Wing Chun. In fact the simple act of mastering Ki itself is a "skill". Goku mastering his Kamehameha on the first try and being able to just about spam it like he does now is something that took Roshi most of his life to do. Yes most of this goes out the window when your opponent can literally nuke a planet, but to say Goku doesn't use any skill in fights would be false. Even recently his universe at stake fight against Beerus devolved into h2h frenzy once the type of fight changed. Even if you wish to maintain someone like Goku just uses the "basics" at his more powered up levels, you cannot forget that those same basics are what he's been practicing for nearly his whole life day after day.

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TheDeathstar

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No one seriously doubts their skill. The DB Earth has world famous martial arts schools out the woodwork. Several of which have produced fighters like Roshi (known as the "God of Martial Arts"), Tien, Tao, Yamcha (Yes early DB Wolf Fang Fist was a powerful technique), ect. And these are just the main examples, not including the numerous martial arts eluded to and showcased in the series such as Drunken Fist, Kenpo, Shaolin Kung Fu, and more recently Wing Chun. In fact the simple act of mastering Ki itself is a "skill". Goku mastering his Kamehameha on the first try and being able to just about spam it like he does now is something that took Roshi most of his life to do. Yes most of this goes out the window when your opponent can literally nuke a planet, but to say Goku doesn't use any skill in fights would be false. Even recently his universe at stake fight against Beerus devolved into h2h frenzy once the type of fight changed.

Yea and Beerus lived for more than 100 millions years

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Stahlflamme

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No one seriously doubts their skill. The DB Earth has world famous martial arts schools out the woodwork. Several of which have produced fighters like Roshi (known as the "God of Martial Arts"), Tien, Tao, Yamcha (Yes early DB Wolf Fang Fist was a powerful technique), ect. And these are just the main examples, not including the numerous martial arts eluded to and showcased in the series such as Drunken Fist, Kenpo, Shaolin Kung Fu, and more recently Wing Chun. In fact the simple act of mastering Ki itself is a "skill". Goku mastering his Kamehameha on the first try and being able to just about spam it like he does now is something that took Roshi most of his life to do. Yes most of this goes out the window when your opponent can literally nuke a planet, but to say Goku doesn't use any skill in fights would be false. Even recently his universe at stake fight against Beerus devolved into h2h frenzy once the type of fight changed. Even if you wish to maintain someone like Goku just uses the "basics" at his more powered up levels, you cannot forget that those same basics are what he's been practicing for nearly his whole life day after day.

When Roshi fought krillin one of his techniques was literally spitting at Krillin so that he dodged back in disgust. Roshis training also consisted of making his students more physically impressive, then telling them fighting is just the application of those stats. One of Gokus opponents after the training notes how Gokus stance is full of holes and weaknesses, but gets stomped because Gokus is to fast. Mr Satan, who despite his comedy relief status, has fought and defeated dozens world class martial artists who do not have superhuman stats notes again before the cell games that Gokus stance has no actual tactical advantage. As a matter of fact dragonball was a parody, it purposefully pointed out how pointless skill was when an manga was about characters that could just stand in an explosion unharmed or toss a car. With world class martial artists including a dragon whose snot could tie someone up and a man that was stinking.

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TheDeathstar

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#16  Edited By TheDeathstar

People tend to forget that Goku was trained in martial arts by his Grandpa Gohan since he was first found

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flashback0180

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Because they are idiotic hipsters who don't remember how epic the verse was .

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ad-arts

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deactivated-5a794b61068b8

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It's not like they don't have SOME skill, but they're definitely not the most skilled martial artists in fiction. DB is all about increasing stats, not improving technique. All of goku's training throughout DB and Z was about that. Roshi taught goku how to do chores (that increased his stats); I don't remember what Kami and popo taught him; King Kai taught him how to chase a monkey, abuse a grasshopper with a mallet, and surprise surprise a technique to multiply his stats; and on the way to namek he trained under 100x earth's gravity; etc. It's just a little annoying when people act as though DB has the greatest martial artists in all of fiction. They don't. If you took away their stat edge and put them up against some true fictional martial artists, they wouldn't fair so well imo.

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TheDeathstar

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#20  Edited By TheDeathstar

Goku definitely is lmao even bias ScrewAttack have to agree on that

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Khael

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Everything relevant in a fight = ki

#DBZLogic

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TheDeathstar

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#22  Edited By TheDeathstar

You live=ki

Ki Manipulation can only be achieved by Strong Mind (Mental), Body (Physical) and Soul (Spiritual)

Even mastering it alone is a skill in itself

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@never_give_up said:

Goku vs Cell is a perfect example of Goku's skills and abilities in a fight.

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Thedarkpaladin

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It's not like they don't have SOME skill, but they're definitely not the most skilled martial artists in fiction. DB is all about increasing stats, not improving technique. All of goku's training throughout DB and Z was about that. Roshi taught goku how to do chores (that increased his stats); I don't remember what Kami and popo taught him; King Kai taught him how to chase a monkey, abuse a grasshopper with a mallet, and surprise surprise a technique to multiply his stats; and on the way to namek he trained under 100x earth's gravity; etc. It's just a little annoying when people act as though DB has the greatest martial artists in all of fiction. They don't. If you took away their stat edge and put them up against some true fictional martial artists, they wouldn't fair so well imo.

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NewBatman

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Yes he does use his skill.

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TheDeathstar

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SpitfirePanda

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Goku is incredibly skilled. So are all the Z Fighters.

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never give up

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@midnightdragon18: DBZ characters are amongst the most skilled martial artist in comics/manga. The fast punches and kicks animations are there to remind us they are fighting really fast. As you can see, in between those rapid attacks they have certain instances where they show proper martial arts punches, kicks, counters, blocks etc.

When characters fight at these MFTL speeds it may look like wild dog fights, but it isn't. This is the same for most fast fighting anime characters.

You need to read more anime/manga.

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MajinBlackheart

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#29 MajinBlackheart  Moderator

Just because there isn't real life technical skill being shown, it's quite apparent by narrative that he, and other DB characters, are the most skilled fighters in their universe. Not sure how anyone could deny that.

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never give up

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Anyone who watched Dragon Ball would know that Goku is leagues above these guys let alone anyone else. He uses his skills in every fight even the guys like Master Roshi who lived for more than 350+ years claim themselves that his skills are far beyond them and is one the best Martial Artist in fiction. He can even go toe to toe against a God who uses Hapkido as a base and have combat experience of more than 100 millions years. Not only that he trained his entire life perfecting MMA to a Godly degree but is known as the Bruce Lee of Dragon Ball.

No Caption Provided

Here's what even bias Screwattack had to say on this (from their Deathbattle): "Goku might just be the best Martial Artist in fiction"

You say ScrewAttack is ignorant but once they say something good about Goku you agree with it. I hope you see where you went wrong. DB thinks Goku will never defeat Superman I hope you realize that. You say they're all ignorant and they come to this conclusion and you agree in a heartbeat.

I'm just pointing out the flaw in your logic.

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speckoh

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Goku is an extremely gifted fighter as recently displayed when he fought against Hit. Hit could stop time for a split second and eventually more but goku was able to counteract that by figuring out Hit's fighting pattern and predict his next moves.

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Straja

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In pure skill goku is indeed the most powerful character in fiction hands down...he learned from best human martial artist,after him even better master Korin,after him even better master kami and it goes on till Whis...he can fight in every way imaginable...Someone said earlier Batman has skill or is better than Goku,just wanted to say yeah keep dreaming they are worlds apart in pure fighting skill...

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deactivated-5a2b0053414c5

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Goku is very skilled, which is consistently shown through early Dragonball. Though, as it progressed to Z it became kind of harder to tell because it does seem like they're just rapidly throwing punches at each other mixed with energy attacks.

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mysticmedivh

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Just because there isn't real life technical skill being shown, it's quite apparent by narrative that he, and other DB characters, are the most skilled fighters in their universe. Not sure how anyone could deny that.

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Jgames

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He has use his skill to adapt people fighting style like he did with Hit time skip. That being said, skill matter less when your opponent is vastly stronger just like in real life how someone who is a heavy weight will most likely beat a lightweight not because of skill, but because of difference in mass.

That being said Goku master SSJ Blue energy efficiently to not lose enegry rapidly, unlike Frieza who only thought of raw power.Trunks and Goten had problem with Frieza minion in the ova not bc they were weaker, but they forgot their basic. So skill helps.

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never give up

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@jgames: I like how Goku was owning Hit in the manga. It reminded me of how Floyd Mayweather reads his opponents any minor move and he's outta there!

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MetalJimmor

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It isn't that the Z fighters aren't incredibly skilled martial artists in their own right, it's the idea that they are the most skilled fighters in all of fiction that I disagree with, and this is because of the way fights play out in the manga/anime.

Early in Dragonball Master Roshi made it very clear that it is not the most technically skilled fighter that wins, it's the one who is the fastest and the strongest. He trained them to enhance their physicals, and this idea that you win fights through raw stats became the staple of the entire franchise, coming to a peak once it got to the Z era and power levels were introduced. When two Dragonball characters fight it's nearly always the more powerful character that wins, and the weaker character can at best hold out for a while using clever tactics.

The best example of what I am talking about is Frieza. He was the best fighter in the galaxy (Aside from maybe his father) at the time and ruled with an iron fist. No one even approached him in terms of combat ability. And yet he never trained a single day in his life. He was the best fighter because he had grossly superior stats to everyone else. I would never rank Frieza among the most skilled martial artists even in Dragonball, much less all of fiction. And yet he could hang with the vastly more skilled Goku purely based on his superior stats until Goku went Super Saiyan.

But compared to any setting in which fights are purely determined by martial skill like Rurouni Kenshin or Samurai Champloo? Settings where being the best fighter means having the highest degree of technical skill in the world? These characters should rightfully be higher on the "who is the best martial artist in all of fiction?" scale than the Dragonball roster just because skill is much, much more important to their world than it is to Dragonball.

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TheDeathstar

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Black says Goku's fighting style has been "engraved" into his body, which will make his strength even more perfect

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TheDeathstar

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#39  Edited By TheDeathstar

@never_give_up said:
@thedeathstar said:

Anyone who watched Dragon Ball would know that Goku is leagues above these guys let alone anyone else. He uses his skills in every fight even the guys like Master Roshi who lived for more than 350+ years claim themselves that his skills are far beyond them and is one the best Martial Artist in fiction. He can even go toe to toe against a God who uses Hapkido as a base and have combat experience of more than 100 millions years. Not only that he trained his entire life perfecting MMA to a Godly degree but is known as the Bruce Lee of Dragon Ball.

No Caption Provided

Here's what even bias Screwattack had to say on this (from their Deathbattle): "Goku might just be the best Martial Artist in fiction"

You say ScrewAttack is ignorant but once they say something good about Goku you agree with it. I hope you see where you went wrong. DB thinks Goku will never defeat Superman I hope you realize that. You say they're all ignorant and they come to this conclusion and you agree in a heartbeat.

I'm just pointing out the flaw in your logic.

"Bias Screwattack" but according to you I said "Ignorant" nice logic. They are horrible superman debaters cause of them people can see true form of Superman fandom "Limitless New 52 superman" lmao. While I can disagree to 95 percent of their utterly wrong limitless debate I can also agree to few 5 percent (Mostly from Chad) and it seems like you are having hard time with that

You know "Logic" is a funny word especially coming from you

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never give up

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@thedeathstar: Yea "logic" is a funny word coming from me. But yet when I made my CAV counter you were so worried about the outcome of the CAV you ran in to defend Hit. Additionally, this was after you knew the rules of CAVs. But so much for logic right.

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HighAccuser

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I'm pretty sure he does

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StormShadow_X

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Of course he does, it's just not easy to because its a balance with his stats and abilites. Like Wonder Woman, sometimes it's hard to tell when she's using skill when she's brawling pretty hard against someone like Superman or someone like that.

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Khael

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#43  Edited By Khael
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midnightdragon18

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@metaljimmor: thats not really a good example since Roshi beat Goku with skill, not stats

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dngn4774

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#45  Edited By dngn4774

It isn't that the Z fighters aren't incredibly skilled martial artists in their own right, it's the idea that they are the most skilled fighters in all of fiction that I disagree with, and this is because of the way fights play out in the manga/anime.

Early in Dragonball Master Roshi made it very clear that it is not the most technically skilled fighter that wins, it's the one who is the fastest and the strongest. He trained them to enhance their physicals, and this idea that you win fights through raw stats became the staple of the entire franchise, coming to a peak once it got to the Z era and power levels were introduced. When two Dragonball characters fight it's nearly always the more powerful character that wins, and the weaker character can at best hold out for a while using clever tactics.

The best example of what I am talking about is Frieza. He was the best fighter in the galaxy (Aside from maybe his father) at the time and ruled with an iron fist. No one even approached him in terms of combat ability. And yet he never trained a single day in his life. He was the best fighter because he had grossly superior stats to everyone else. I would never rank Frieza among the most skilled martial artists even in Dragonball, much less all of fiction. And yet he could hang with the vastly more skilled Goku purely based on his superior stats until Goku went Super Saiyan.

But compared to any setting in which fights are purely determined by martial skill like Rurouni Kenshin or Samurai Champloo? Settings where being the best fighter means having the highest degree of technical skill in the world? These characters should rightfully be higher on the "who is the best martial artist in all of fiction?" scale than the Dragonball roster just because skill is much, much more important to their world than it is to Dragonball.

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Barodas

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#46  Edited By Barodas

Goku does use skill but he isn't the most skilled martial artist, the whole Dragon Ball Universe certainly has martial arts skill and they are by no means weak but not the same level as fictional works that specialize in martial arts like The God of Highscool,Kenichi the Mightiest Disciple,Rurouni Kenshin, etc. Dragon Ball chose a different route compared to those examples I gave.

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buttersdaman000

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@dngn4774 said:
@metaljimmor said:

It isn't that the Z fighters aren't incredibly skilled martial artists in their own right, it's the idea that they are the most skilled fighters in all of fiction that I disagree with, and this is because of the way fights play out in the manga/anime.

Early in Dragonball Master Roshi made it very clear that it is not the most technically skilled fighter that wins, it's the one who is the fastest and the strongest. He trained them to enhance their physicals, and this idea that you win fights through raw stats became the staple of the entire franchise, coming to a peak once it got to the Z era and power levels were introduced. When two Dragonball characters fight it's nearly always the more powerful character that wins, and the weaker character can at best hold out for a while using clever tactics.

The best example of what I am talking about is Frieza. He was the best fighter in the galaxy (Aside from maybe his father) at the time and ruled with an iron fist. No one even approached him in terms of combat ability. And yet he never trained a single day in his life. He was the best fighter because he had grossly superior stats to everyone else. I would never rank Frieza among the most skilled martial artists even in Dragonball, much less all of fiction. And yet he could hang with the vastly more skilled Goku purely based on his superior stats until Goku went Super Saiyan.

But compared to any setting in which fights are purely determined by martial skill like Rurouni Kenshin or Samurai Champloo? Settings where being the best fighter means having the highest degree of technical skill in the world? These characters should rightfully be higher on the "who is the best martial artist in all of fiction?" scale than the Dragonball roster just because skill is much, much more important to their world than it is to Dragonball.

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@dngn4774 said:
@metaljimmor said:

It isn't that the Z fighters aren't incredibly skilled martial artists in their own right, it's the idea that they are the most skilled fighters in all of fiction that I disagree with, and this is because of the way fights play out in the manga/anime.

Early in Dragonball Master Roshi made it very clear that it is not the most technically skilled fighter that wins, it's the one who is the fastest and the strongest. He trained them to enhance their physicals, and this idea that you win fights through raw stats became the staple of the entire franchise, coming to a peak once it got to the Z era and power levels were introduced. When two Dragonball characters fight it's nearly always the more powerful character that wins, and the weaker character can at best hold out for a while using clever tactics.

The best example of what I am talking about is Frieza. He was the best fighter in the galaxy (Aside from maybe his father) at the time and ruled with an iron fist. No one even approached him in terms of combat ability. And yet he never trained a single day in his life. He was the best fighter because he had grossly superior stats to everyone else. I would never rank Frieza among the most skilled martial artists even in Dragonball, much less all of fiction. And yet he could hang with the vastly more skilled Goku purely based on his superior stats until Goku went Super Saiyan.

But compared to any setting in which fights are purely determined by martial skill like Rurouni Kenshin or Samurai Champloo? Settings where being the best fighter means having the highest degree of technical skill in the world? These characters should rightfully be higher on the "who is the best martial artist in all of fiction?" scale than the Dragonball roster just because skill is much, much more important to their world than it is to Dragonball.

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JohnCena69swag

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I think a majority of the people who say dragon ball is all about strength rather than skill have only watched dbz. Classic db and super have everything to do with skill.

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MetalJimmor

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@midnightdragon18:

I did say NEARLY always. Besides, Roshi admitted that he only won because his leg was longer than Goku's, letting the full force of his kick connect before Goku's did. Which is a stat advantage.

I'm not saying the Dragonball characters aren't skilled. I just don't view them as the MOST skilled. Fiction is a very, very, VERY broad range of stories and characters. The idea of saying any single franchise has the best martial artists in fiction is absurd. But the franchises that focus solely on skill should take precedent over franchises that focus more on raw power were one to make such a list.