Genjutsu Requires Chakra to Function and Here's Why

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UltimateSage

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#101  Edited By UltimateSage

I tried lmao, like you can't get more ignorant than that smh

And now tailed beasts have a chakra network

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Anomalous

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@azureus said:

@anomalous:

Of course. The scans of Neji and Kidomaru "without chakra" are from the very beginning of the fight. To say that they're chakraless in those scans is no different than saying Neji is an absolute idiot who can't do very simple prep (infusing chakra) for a an extremely predictable battle (they were chasing the sound 4; obviously a confrontation was in their near future). Give Neji more credit than that lol. All those scans are showing is that there is more chakra activity in areas of the body where a stronger technique is about to be used. We can see in the scan of Neji that he "doesn't have chakra" in his arms right? Except he 100% does as that's what he was using to cut Kidomaru's webs

  1. The problem is no one said they were chakra-less.
  2. What was instead said is that chakra exclusively flows to where the jutsu is being used. None of these examples contradict that.
  1. That's exactly what was said when those scans were brought up by @adi_frost. That they're supposed to be evidence of no chakra in their bodies lmao.
  2. What they show is the difference between passive chakra flow and active chakra flow where a jutsu is about to be used. You can see the difference between passive chakra flow and no chakra flow courtesy of @ultimatesage
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@azureus said:

Do these characters assume that someone is dead/dying because of their lack of "stamina" or "energies"?Is the possibility that they just ran out of chakra completely and aren't infusing more ever considered? NO. Chakra is always present in living humans. Cling to your simplified graph though.

Sorry to jump in midway like this, but none of these examples support that. No one here is dying of Chakra loss, but because of other reasons. Its only because they die their chakra is also fading. The ones who can't infuse more...die because there's nothing to infuse. Its even noted in one of your scans where Kakashi dies from using Kamui.

The point is that sensory-types assumed, with no information other than lack of chakra, that the people were dead. They equate no chakra to death; how the person was actually dying is irrelevant to my argument.

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Anomalous

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I tried lmao, like you can't get more ignorant than that smh

And now tailed beasts have a chakra network

That's ok turn tail like you always do when I respond to you in a debate. You had to tag people who you knew disagreed with me so you could get some validation for that meme of a comment

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100% identical amirite? :^)

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SuperiorSGBeast

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@anomalous: Sasuke genjustued manda the snake who is a sage creature.

Sage creatures don’t have chakra

You have debunked nothing

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Anomalous

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@anomalous: Sasuke genjustued manda the snake who is a sage creature.

Sage creatures don’t have chakra

You have debunked nothing

This has already been discussed man. Sage animals do have chakra

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Azureus

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@anomalous:

That's exactly what was said when those scans were brought up by.... That they're supposed to be evidence of no chakra in their bodies lmao.

Usually when I say "no one" I speak for myself, I'm not aware they said that.
What they show is the difference between passive chakra flow and active chakra flow where a jutsu is about to be used. You can see the difference between passive chakra flow and no chakra flow courtesy of...

Which example is the passive and which one is the active? There's Chakra flow in both.

The point is that sensory-types assumed, with no information other than lack of chakra, that the people were dead. hey equate no chakra to death; how the person was actually dying is irrelevant to my argument.
The problem is that these assertions are usually incorrect since they vary depending on context. None of the situations you posted are the same. Madara sees the chakra fading in Guy's last tenketsu and determines the end is near for him. Karin panics because Sasuke's chakra suddenly disappears in the reverse summoning. In the third Naruto has to ask whether Kakashi is present in the village or not. In the Last one, Karin feels Sasuke's chakra fading.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I don't see what this has to do with anything beyond this.

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JOVIOLMA

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''At least my son don't cry because of fictional characters death, right dear ? ''

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UltimateSage

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I'm sorry if this SIMPLIFIED chart debunks you 2 year old headcanon.

It must suck when even the official raw manga scans disagrees with your claims

Sealed Chakra network:

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Normal Chakra network:

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Seriously wondering how you think naruto is alive if his chakra network is cut off and he doesn't have/can't produce chakra at the time..........

1) Chakra Depletion:

We've all read the same manga(....I hope). Chakra production is a learnt skill, people who don’t have chakra are still alive because they have stamina, likewise when ninjas use up all their chakra either in real combat or training, they don’t die because they still have stamina to keep them alive. Stamina being physical and spiritual energy, this is what flows through the body.

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^ As the above chart(don't know how many times you've seen this lol) shows. You start with 100% Stamina/ or Physical and Spiritual energy, no chakra, no ninjutsu, no taijutsu. When naruto takes out 30% of that stamina and turns into chakra, he still be alive even when that 30% made chakra runs out because he still has 70% stamina still left. Chakra Depletion is when stamina, therefore physical and spiritual energy, therefore the things that make up chakra are zero......equaling zero chakra.

^Naruto out of chakra. Why still alive? Because he still has stamina
^Naruto out of chakra. Why still alive? Because he still has stamina
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^Bee, Gai, and Kakashi are all drained of chakra. Why still alive? Because they still have stamina.

2)Creating Chakra on the fly......lol:

Hey @azureus, what I think he's trying to say is "why would neji or any other ninja not have chakra already prepared before going into battle"...as a way to rebuttal your "chakra isn't always constant" claim.....which I absolutely facepalm to lmao. I truly feel as though people just skim through the pages.

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We are told by Kakashi himself that they do on the fly^^

3)Chakra Flow:

As we know, there is the chakra network system. OP says there's always chakra flow through every single network, meaning Genjutsus blah blah blah.......which we know isn't the case because only the needed networks required for a jutsu gets chakra flowing through it. Observe⬇️⬇️:

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Chunin exam, naruto gets his chakra network sealed off, therefore no chakra flowing anywhere. And we get to see a chakra network system sealed.

we have seen that there is no difference whatsoever between Naruto's chakra network when it was sealed and all the other shown chakra networks :

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^we can see that only the parts of the chakra network Kidomaru needs for his jutsu is lighting up as it is getting the needed chakra. We can compare with how Naruto's chakra is lighting up his own chakra network and the sealed networks that don't have any chakra.

(I don't know if you realized this, but if what you said about genjutsu being reliant on there being an constant chakra flow throughout the chakra network system Is plausible........then naruto at that point in time should be completely be immune to Genjutsu lol)

Your "Naruto's network is darker, while kidomaru's is lighter" counter is some top tier reaching tho. Naruto's sealed network is the same shade as his body, it's empty, Neji sees straight through it. Kidomaru's empty network is the same shade as his body because Neji sees straight through it. It's not his chakra being lighter, it's neji being able to see through his empty tubes.

Simipified:

Naruto's body is a dark shade - empty network = Neji sees naruto's darker body

Kidomaru's body is "lighter" than narutos - empty network + netwotk filled with chakra = Neji see Kido's lighter body - he can't see through the networks filled with chakra therefore only sees the chakra

And you have the Bijuus, who are just made out of chakra, they don't have a chakra network system

thanks a bunch @joviolma!!!!! i found the scans lol

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SuperiorSGBeast

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#109  Edited By SuperiorSGBeast

@anomalous: They never received chakra from the fruit or kaguya herself or even her sons.

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SuperiorSGBeast

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Daruma

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So it's pretty much confirmed this thread is wrong to much evidence contradicted the OP's post

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LeoTheGreatest

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Regular Genjitsu affects the already working Chakra system.

Dojutsu Genjutsu injects the users chakra into the victim.

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Daruma

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@leothegreatest: Do you have the novel page for that feat? I used to have it but can't find it.

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LeoTheGreatest

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#114  Edited By LeoTheGreatest  Online
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Daruma

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@leothegreatest: Thanks man.

OT: that settles that it works like I've been saying other Genjutsu may be different but the main form of Genjutsu works via injecting chakra into the victum.

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LeoTheGreatest

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#116  Edited By LeoTheGreatest  Online

I’m generous and go with the notion it would work outside of the verse but it does seem that the target has to have a chakra system in place to manipulate them regardless of wether you’re controlling their flow of chakra or the chakra you injected in them.

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Setrakian

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I’m generous and go with the notion it would work outside of the verse but it does seem that the target has to have a chakra system in place to manipulate them regardless of wether you’re controlling their flow of chakra or the chakra you injected in them.

This seems the most logical

Either way i don't see why it matters. You don't and shouldn't restrict an ability like that in a crossverse battle cuz of some technicality.

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Heatforce

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#118  Edited By Heatforce

@setrakian said:
@leothegreatest said:

I’m generous and go with the notion it would work outside of the verse but it does seem that the target has to have a chakra system in place to manipulate them regardless of wether you’re controlling their flow of chakra or the chakra you injected in them.

This seems the most logical

Either way i don't see why it matters. You don't and shouldn't restrict an ability like that in a crossverse battle cuz of some technicality.

I agree for the most part i.e. Unless a verse has some kinda spiritual awareness, they would be at the mercy of Bleach 🤷‍♂️

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Anomalous

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@ultimatesage:

You can still see the difference in those colored scans. It's even more obvious actually... Take a minute and really look at these comparisons with an objective eye:

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^ Naruto's body and chakra network are completely dark with no activity going on

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^ Unsealed networks are more lit up (not pure white) with those ripple-like things coming off of every part of their body. This shows that, while chakra isn't flowing in great abundance like water through a pipe as if they were gathering it up to use a flashy jutsu, there is chakra present throughout their entire body. I mean what else could it possibly be showing us? You call it "2 year old head canon", but it's confirmed by this:

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^ Neji is in gentle fist stance ready to fight and he 100% needs chakra in his hands to use gentle fist. Why isn't there chakra visibly flowing through his network you ask? Because gentle first doesn't require much chakra like a rasengan or Kidomaru's webs. The passive amount is enough.