Gender Swap or Race Bend ??

Probably the gender being changed.

Mainly because the race swapping usually doesn't entail anything beyond "whitey bad, make whitey character brown person now"

Probably race-bending, I'm fine with some of them at least.

95% of the times am in the neither category. If the character was good enough to garner attention to be adapted in live action, maybe,..... just maybe, keeping all their key components ie race, sex, personality traits, mannerisms etc.

Feel free to play around with the story within reason but for the love of God stop butchering beloved characters.

Plus, race bending and gender bending just seems like a cheap gimmick to generate buzz. A classic example of the "there is no such thing as bad press" and it also hints at how uncreative the studio or writer is being

Also, also it always affects interesting/major characters. If some barely recognized side character was race or gender bent who gives a shit. It would still serve your alleged purpose of "diversifying" the cast.

Gender swap if the new version is cute. There I said it.

I honestly don't care, as long as it goes both ways. Like black characters can turn into white characters and white characters can turn into black characters. Same goes with gender. Just make it go both ways. I say that because these days you can turn a white character into a black character and it's totally fine, but if you do it the other way around, it's "whitewashing". To me, that's hypocritical. And people may try to justify it using mental gymnastics, but everybody knows the real reason they're ok with it.

Btw I'm not white so don't try to say I'm a just a bigoted "CiS wHiTe MaLe".

Yeah. Cast hot actresses in male roles. Idc.

Gender swap works in some cases, like depicting the Christian God as a woman in some fiction, but often feels cheap and forced. Race bend often feels cheap and disrespectful to non-white actors and actresses, who should get to play refreshing original characters. That said, sometimes that change is great (e.g. casting Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury). Both work, depending on the circumstances.

@breakofdawn: Hahahaha, now that I think about it, if the Christian God was officially recognised as a woman, there would be A LOT less followers today. Some men just could not accept a supreme creator being female.

Gender swapping tends to be a bit better than race bending in most cases I've seen, i.e. Stormfront

Nothing is a problem. The only problem is idiots online complaining about a movie changing a character.

I'm glad Neither is winning. There are smart people in the world. Way I see it if you're going to do an adaptation off a comic, game whatever do it right and stick to the damn source material, otherwise you're not doing an actual adaptation or don't do it at all. My view on it and both DC and Marvel are guilty of this.

Doesn't matter. And if you step away from the internet, you'll see real life people don't care either.

@ghostodoofus2: A lot of it is inherent misogyny. For example, women still can't become priests in Catholicism or hold notable positions of power in any major faith that I'm aware of. I've never thought of God as a guy, since he's, you know, omnipotent. He or she can take any form that they wish.

Always depends on the context.

Thank you sir for acknowledging it.

@killbilly: acknowledging what?

It depends on the character. With some characters, their nationality/gender isn't really an important part of what makes them interesting, but with others it is. For example, I really don't care if they cast a black guy as Human Torch, since his ethnicity isn't an important aspect of his appeal. I would not want a female James Bond, as being extremely traditionally masculine is a defining aspect of his character, but I wouldn't care about a race swap as long as he's still shown as British.

Don't really care about either, seriously, what's this obsession and outrage about FAKE MADEUP FICTIONAL characters?? They aren't real to began with, so what's there to cry about changing one fake aspect to another fake aspect? Get over it, it's all made believe and fairytales 🙄

Like, my favourite fictional character is Batman, and favourite film about him is TDK, but I believe even if Christopher Nolan have made his batman into batwoman or a black Bruce (or both), so long as the rest of story remains largely the same and performance just as good, I would still love this genderbent/race bent version of TDK as much! But hey, maybe that's just me. I don't feel compelled to worship or sworn allegiance to fictional God or made-up men 🤷‍♂️

The only times I might have an issue with changing the gender or race of a character is if its based on REAL LIFE characters or true biographies, like...i don't know...turning Winston churchhill into female Wendy Churchhill, or Martin Luther King into Caucasian Marty King or something. And even then I am not absolutely against it if there are good reasons behind it, ie. A what-if story, or with good creative/narrative purpose behind it, like Hamilton.

@killianduclark: how the hell is swapping race butchering a character? I mean really? Most characters were made white due to comic writers knowing other races wouldn’t sell. It’s why Stan Lee didn’t reveal BP was Black right away.

@limitless82: because they actually do care about race and gender and like the fact that most of them are usually white. A lot of people take for granted they are the majority and see white and male as the “default” so any deviation is somehow an issue. They act like making a character a different race is an insult to the original creator and use bullshit words like “woke” to associate and progressive idea as bad.

@balanceandtruth: if you can race bend black panther, then we can continue this conversation

@killianduclark: ah so if we can race bend one of the characters who’s race is actually part of his character then we can? That’s interesting. What about Matt Murdock, Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, or even Superman is “white”? What about them being white is oh so essential? How about this? If you actually address my position we can continue this conversation.

@balanceandtruth: superman race isn't in your face "important" like black panther is, but any comic reader knows it's important to his nature.

His alter ego Clark is basically a parody of bland as toast meek straight white man. His superman persona is an idealized version of strong white role model. Even his heritage as an alien is offset by the fact that he is so all American he is indistinguishable from most humans from the USA. Too the point some well written superman stories explore this.

So yes, superman is Caucasian and like any character their race, sex and sexuality matters. And if you believe it doesn't at least have some consistency and stop acting like T'challa being black can't also, be argued to be unimportant.

Just because you are gullible enough to lap up pandering acts of faux diversity doesn't mean, superman should fall victim to it.

@killianduclark: Black Panther is from a country called Wakanda, in Africa. All people in Wakanda are black and their entire culture is built around it. Superman is a kryptonian from a different planet who inexplicably looks human. So I’m sorry but it sure as hell isn’t a stretch he’s black, Asian, or Latino. Because that certainly doesn’t stretch the boundaries of the logic anymore than anything. None of the recent Superman depictions leaned on this “boring white person” feature you have described. Certainly something like that should not be placed over getting a good actor and certainly there are men of all races that could be a good Kal. I’m not pandering to anyone. I’m simply recognizing white isn’t the default and trying to act like the race of each character was part of a grand plan is BS. Most comic characters are white cuz of when they were created. I think you need to leave your echo chambers. Too much quartering is bad for your brain.

how about neither.

QFTW

It sounds like the argument here is that because he was created as a white role model (despite the fact that this has no real manifestation in his writing) in a time wherein the vast, vast majority of role models were by default straight white men because that was the socially accepted norm, he can't be anything other than a straight white man?

Also, did you miss the part where Superman is supposed to reflect the experience of being an immigrant? Do you not think that therefore, depicting him as a modern-day POC might be a little more relevant to the current cultural zeitgeist? At the time of Superman's creation, there were plenty of white immigrants in America, so it made sense. Nowadays, the vast majority of immigrants are POC, so if we really wanted to make the character even more relevant whilst retaining one of his core aspects (that is, the parallels to the immigrant experience) it might make sense to depict him the way most immigrants look today -- that is, as a POC.

I'm not saying this definitively needs to happen, I'm just making a suggestion based on what I think is an actual fundamental aspect of what makes the character so endearing.

@wolverinebatmanftw: makes total sense. I think the issue is people assume white is the default and anything else is a deviation. In fact what many people call forced diversity is really just “not white”.

This thread shows that people are more racist than they are sexist

Only a matter of time before people start pulling the race and sexist cards lol. That was fast or maybe some people are just tired of the PC bs. Doesn't mean you're a racist or sexist. God forbid some of us want source material, OMG such a bad thing!!! I'm a minority FTR and even I feel this is getting ridiculous now. I don't mind alternate Earth's versions, but when you start replacing the main version with gender or race swap it's just dumb and feels forced.

All i can say is i'm never watching a black superman movie unless it's an elseworld like val zod or something but definitely not mainstream Clark Kent

INB4 WB turns Wonder Woman into a man

Before anyone says i'm racist i'm black so don't even bother

I hate both (most of the time)

Both obviously.

Henry Cavill has more than proven his incapability of being Superman. It's Oprah Winfrey's turn:

Henry did a great job, with some questionable scripts. That's not his fault and Oprah is a has been lol

I think gender swap does more for changing the character as how it can interact with other characters, while "race bending" is something really irrelevant that the only thing it does is to make a character a different real world "race" with no potential for different storytelling, and sometimes (like the Black Panther example) can be impossible to apply if the character is tied to a certain ethnic group from Earth in it's story and thus it wouldn't really work.

Basically what i'm saying is that, on most comic, manga, etc. stories, a character's race is never important and thus changing it would be irrelevant, while changing the gender would do more of a difference, since many character's stories are shaped depending on their gender, for example you make Goku a girl, you change a lot of things of who he is and his interactions with characters like Chi-Chi, etc. you make him a different "race" (by real world standards not DB standards) and nothing changes, he still marries Chi-Chi, he still is clueless about girls and still apalls Oolong when he sees his PP.

Silly example, i know.

Another: Make Bruce Wayne a black dude, and he's still the same, a rich boy, make him a rich girl and his relationship with Talia Al Ghul, Catwoman, Joker, everything changes in those dynamics, Joker & Batman would be no longer having that homoerotic subtext (sadly) he wouldn't feel attracted to Catwoman (unless she's a lesbian, and even then that's a change in the dynamic with the other characters as well with some male villains hitting on her while she's into girls, get what i mean? it would still change how she is percieved compared to if she was a rich boi) and many other things.

Honestly Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent and Diana are legacy character and shouldn't be racebent either. They're literally over 50+ years old to change them now or any time to a different race would be stupid. People keep using the "well for BP he's from Africa" I have known white people born in africa who came here that I've worked with and lighter skinned black folks as well, so I feel this is a really weak argument not for nothing. It's also hypocritical, so it's ok to racebend white characters but not black or darker? lol. I can just imagine the uproar if Marvel did racebend with BP or an alternate universe called White Panther....lol imagine how that would go. But let's do Black Clark Kent, give me a break...he's white, want to do a black Supes, do Calvin or Val-Zod. I'm all for that idea, but don't mess with Clark Kent.

Keep in mind I'm talking about the main continuity/universe, not alternates. If it's an alternate the high rumor is he'll be Calvin or Val-Zod which would work so much better than just race changing Clark because they're their own character and version of Supes, just like Red Son. He's literally Russian Commie Superman but it works because different reality, different rules just like Val-Zod and Calvin.

Also for the dude who said "who cares fictional" well apparently you care enough to post lol so even you care, but seriously that's a reply from a normie who while you may not care for comics, fictional characters those writers also don't care about you as they're trying to target a specific demographic. Keep that in mind, not to mention a lot do care because a lot of fans/readers have a deep, emotional connection to some characters. Example, could be you relating to them such as myself liking Jessica Cruz over Simon Baz(who was just a woke created character with no development much like raceswaps) because she suffers from anxiety which I do as well so I can relate to her character. She's also hispanic like me, but I don't even care about that to be honest. I love Superman because of his character and the fact that he's adopted again like me so I relate to him in ways. I still prefer he stays the way he is though which is white because that's his character, if you make him black or asian it's not clark kent. Besides, DC in this instance already has an Asian Superman of China and 2 Black Supermen from other Earth's, hence it's not necessary to racebend Clark Kent, Period.

Both can work with a good actor in a good script. Tilda Swinton as the Ancient One is infinitely more charismatic than whoever they would have gotten to play the stereotypical old man sage we've seen countless times before.

SLJ as Nick Fury is so good, they made the change permanent in comics. Michael B. Jordan is a good actor, but in the terrible movie that was Fan4stic, his character's race-bend stood out as just another thing wrong with the film.

Of course, the more well-known and iconic a character is, the less charitable to these changes the audience becomes.

Both of them suck most of the time.

Neither shouldn't be a option since thats a copout.

As for the question, race swap. It really doesn't matter most of the time, we have two black Iris, black Nick Fury, black Heimdall, black Perry white- no one cares.

It only matters to hardcore fanboys who want their fav characters to be adapted like the source material. I'm guilty of it because I want Babs to remain a redhead but won't bitch about if she isn't.

That's because there aren't many Boys comics fans to bitch about it. Race swap Batman or Peter Parker and hell would break loose 😂

The Neither option isn't a copout at all, it's a logical choice for those of us who don't care about race and gender swaps being relevant to a character to succeed. There's a difference between pandering and developed. I'm glad "neither" is an option because it's essentially the "I don't like both race and gender swapping characters" answer. Not everyone sees skin color and race first before everything else afterall, and that's fine. I know some some now days like to try to "cancel" those people but I say F those people. lol. Humans have always been individualistic and should remain that way, I'm glad it's an option and it's winning for a reason....

@arctika: yep I selected "neither" because neither of them bother me at all.

I honestly don't care about either as long as the finished product is good.

I suppose you can see it that way, the way the question is I see it as "neither" as in I don't want either. To each his own I guess ;)

Race swap does nothing but piss off the fanbase, gender swap atleast can lead to new character dynamics.