Frozen ranks top canon Star Wars force users

Below I will rank the top canon Force Users in overall combative ability (force power, augmentation, skill, etc is all taken into account). I will provide reasoning for most although I may not provide reasons for some (partly because I've spoken extensively about them elsewhere but also part laziness. I will also not include amps (so stuff like OWK amp is excluded).

1) ROTJ/Dyad Palpatine

Given that ROTJ Palaptine was recently confirmed as capable of performing the fleet feat, it solidifies his immense power. Various sources are also affirming ROTJ Sidious as = Dyad. He is the king of canon.

2) Grandmaster Luke

He defeated an ancient Sith whose power was compared to ROTJ Palpatine. Not only did he defeat them but did so decisively. Also scales massively above Vader and iirc stopped a TIE fighter screaming through space in SOTS.

3) Exim Panshard

Power comparable to ROTJ Sidious and force mastery equal to Luke.

4) ROTJ Darth Vader

5) Knightfall Vader

6) Yoda

7) Mace Windu

8) Count Dooku

9) Obi Wan

10) Cere Junda

Honorary mention no11) Maul

Pansheard was compared to ROTJ Sidious and Luke beat him “decisively,” so what’s the reasoning behind ROTJ Sidious still being above Luke?

Cere shouldn’t be here either imo, but I know we both have different viewpoints in that regard.

Luke thought that Panshard's power was unlike any he ever encountered. The longer passage makes clear that it's due to total power and not type of power. That said, it contradicts with OOU sources which put Sidious as the most powerful sith ever. So I think Luke was inaccurate in his assessment, BUT not wildly wrong. Luke.has a gauge on Sheev's full power (he witnessed him try to kill Vader), but OOU sources favour Sheev. So you end up with conflicting sources. In which I choose Sheev, because he has more sources placing him as the most powerful sith and they're OOU.

Sidious also has other advantages over Exim. Namely significantly greater mastery and knowledge. In addition to far superior skill (Exim isn't very good in sabers. He uses old lost forms and just relies on unpredictability and augmentation. His real strength is raw power). So Sheev has better accolades, feats, mastery, knowledge, skill etc. But Exim's accolade is good enough to be in that ballpark.

Has Star Wars gone so far off the rails that Maul is no longer top ten? We have a movie and seasons of TCW and Rebels of Maul, and the Sith in one book makes the list? Does he have the feats to back this up or just statements?

@frozen: Thanks for clearing it up.

Feat of pressing GM Luke is enough, given that the same book says Luke is far above his ROTJ iteration.

@frozen: W list but why aren’t you including Prime OWK Kenobi? He’s at number 5

Said in OP wouldn't include amps.

EOS OWK Kenobi=OWK Vader in base, no amp.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/twin-state-owk-kenobi-and-eos-owk-kenobi-power-lev-2284891/

Ok some questions

1)- Why are Yoda and Mace so low? Both of them were fighting Palpatine and were comparable to him

2)- Why is Knightfall Vader so high? He was matched by Obi Wan, that should at least put him below Yoda and Mace

3)- What feat does Cere have that allows her to be anywhere near Maul in power

@frozen: Great List Maul made it too that's nice

• They are not low. The others are just better
• That is Mustafar Vader, not Knightfall. Mustafar is hindered. Jedi ROTS Anakin is confirmed more powerful than Yoda and Mace. And Zonakin beat Dooku a lot easier than either Yoda or Mace did
• Cere gave 10bby Vader a tough fight, same Vader is much more powerul than Maul. She also slammed a mid sized ship to the ground so hard it exploded

I see but the amp took him beyond Vader in their fight?

Why are you using RotS Obi instead of his prime? How is Maul a honorable mention when Ahsoka is decisively above him? And where's Ben and Rey?

1. Palps

2. GM Luke/Exim

3. Vader

4. Obi Wan

5. Yoda

6. Mace

7. Redeemed Ben Solo (lowballing, could be higher)

8. Rey

9. Dooku/Ahsoka

10. Cere

Honorable mention - Leia

@gaoron:

What exactly is Prime Obi? The version who beat OWK Vader was amped. ANH Obi is lesser than ROTS Obi. Unless you're referring to end of series Obi.

Why would Redeemed Ben be above Mace Windu? There is no way to justify that (no offence, but I don't see how that can be justified if you say he could be higher). He has no feats besides killing Knights of Ren and losing to Sidious. Mace would curb stomp.

Mace scales to Yoda and beat Sidious. Even if you were to place Reylo above Dooku or Mace in the force (something which I don't think is justified, both Dooku and Mace have better force scaling), the gap would not be enough to overcome the immense skill gap. They're all around much better.

Also I forgot to include Ahsoka. Would have put her right after Obi.

Where do you rank Cal overall after Survivor?

Yeah the amp put him beyond Vader but his Base is equal to Suited Vader. That should still put him above KFV.

EOS OWK Kenobi is his prime. (No amp etc).

I'm still reviewing the game so I haven't caught up on all his feats. If the part about him beating someone who it took 10 Jedi to defeat is true, that's insane. But he still wouldn't be near the top 10.

I'd put him over Kanan though without question. But need to review more. His force feats seem super OP though. In fact, one of them is better than Kylo. Even though it's a shared feat (Kylo is by no means a top tier like Mace or Vader, but he's a good benchmark for someone like Cal to surpass).

Cal is not going to get to the ROTJ Luke tier but I do wonder if he could get to the level of being able to give someone like Maul a good fight (albeit lose).

@frozen:

Either end of OWK or ANH is his prime. I vividly remember there being a canon accolade stating ANH Ben grew in the force. He also did well against Vader before willingly letting himself be killed. Don't see why ANH couldn't be his prime, especially in a list exclusively about force prowess. Either way, whenever you use ANH or end of OWK he's way stronger than RotS.

Ben has some of the best on screen force feats going for him on top of Skywalker potential. Windu is master combatant but force wise, he never showned anything impressive. I still put him above on my list due to sheer hype of beating Palps but there's room for debate for sure.

Oh I agree. In an all out fight Mace beats out Rey and Ben 100%. But I thought this is exclusively about force power, not dueling.

@gaoron:

ANH is stated as being lesser swordsman than ROTS and slower. From A Certain PoV novel also has him saying that he has no chance of beating Vader and that his body will give out. He also wasn't able to force abuse Rebels Maul. He has immense force power, but can't manifest it in combat. ROTS Obi would slap ANH Obi in an all out fight due to being a better duelist and actually being able to augment himself for long periods of time and manifest TK in combat.

My list is about all out, not just force power. Although I still think Mace is definitely beyond Kylo or Rey in the force. His force power is stated equal to Yoda. Yoda lifted a mountain. He also had the edge over Dooku in their duel, and force blasted him. Dooku didn't use FL in their duel, but his FL has destroyed a mountain top in a comic.

If it was a pure force power list, then my list would look different. Although the top 4 would remain the same.

@frozen:

All out changes my list a bit. I would lower Kenobi behind Mace and Yoda, and I guess make his prime end of OWK series even though I still don't see why ANH couldn't be it given Dooku and Sidious hit theirs primes as old men too. Old age shouldn't effect force users all that much. Also lower Reylo behind Dooku and Ahsoka. Cere vs Reylo is either way for me, squishing her in between Rey and redeemed Ben could work.

The difference with Obi is books go out of their way to explain he declined. Idk why, probably to reconcile the slow choreo. Vader is stated as cautious and Obi is stated as aged. A likely explanation is that he spent decades on Tattooine, which furthered his ageing. Given that staying on tattooine speeds up ageing.

I guess you could maybe try and argue that those sources were written pre OWK so they shouldn't count. Because OWK shows him get to old levels pretty quickly. But I strongly believe that those sources will continue to get reprinted post OWK. So there is no real way around them, short of just ignoring them.

Wait really, Cere > Maul? I know you shared that one feat but is there other crazy stuff she did in the new game?

Cere gave Vader a better fight than Maul could ever hope to. She also scales massively above Cal and Merrin's shared feat of destroying an assault class scarab machine.