Force generated by captain marvel in punching party thor. (ignoring drag)

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stalker_2

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Feat overview

Distance he covered ≈ 8000Km = 8000000m

Calculation

By impulse momentum theorem :-

FΔt = mΔP = m(Ux i^ + Uy j^) (considering contact force was constant throughout)

Maximum height attained by thor should be around 408 Km above earth surface since visually the earth appears the same (at max height) as seen from the ISS

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/img/photo/2016/06/earth-from-above-expedition-47-aboa/e01_ISS047E133215-1/original.jpg)

Finding Uy

( put y = 408000m in the above equation) Uy comes out to be 2770ms^-1)

Finding Ux

Ux = 8000000/2T(1/2) , where T(1/2) is half of the total time of flight

Finding T(1/2)

It is given by a little complicated expression

Here Ymax is the highest point of trajectory which is equal to 408 Km . R is the earth's radius ,g is earth's gravitational field at surface.

Proof for this ^^^

Last part when integrated properly yields the result in the previous image.

And T(1/2) comes out to be 288.32 seconds .

so Ux = 8000000/2T(1/2) = 8000000/576.6 = 13874.43 ms^-1

Coming Back to the initial calculation

FΔt = mΔP = m(Ux i^ + Uy j^) (m = 90 Kg as should be considering how tall and athletic and bulky thor is)

FΔt = 90(2770 i^ + 13874.43 j^)

duration of the fastest punch by a trained human fighter is 0.06 second (https://boxingscience.co.uk/science-behind-punch/) .

F = (90/0.06)(2770^2 + 13874.43^2)^1/2 = 21,222,360 N ( This is a low end feat since the duration of the punch is that of a normal human but cap marvel is not a normal human).

Let's say she punches a 1000 times faster than a normal human so the force would be 21,222,360,000 N (21 million tons of force).

Note:-

Real time duration of flight was about 10 seconds but it is not the actual duration of flight .

stalker_2

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Mandabub

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Inb4 darkyoda Stalker vs NW part 1876542982.

KryptonianKing88

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Damn, not even cityblock level.

Mandabub

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physicalculturi

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His Calc puts it above castle bravo.

KryptonianKing88

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@harrisonmesko: @mandabub: it's tons of force, not tnt. To get tnt, you'd multiply the N value by the distance Carol's fist covers.

Mandabub

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physicalculturi

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Ah. My mistake.

KillianDuclark

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So, dceu can actually harm this overrated fodder?

Lmao.

LordTwigo

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Usually calcs make feats more impressive not less impressive.

With drag factored in does this feat fall down to multi building level?

death4bunnies

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No drag would increase the calc by a lot.. a whole lot.

death4bunnies

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No, because with drag it’s a much more impressive feat.

MoistChoice

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#14  Edited By MoistChoice  Online

Feats like these are usually less impressive than they look

Kjp

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salt

Kjp

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No one even mentions dceu here and no matter how much you wank clark he gets lolstomp

stalker_2

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@kjp: here ,Superman is a fodder.

stalker_2

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lmfao 72 kt is the power not the total yield.

stalker_2

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what this NWName guy did was completely wrong (if you are referring to party thor vs mcu Thor thread) .

And I didn't understand what you mean by "yield is"

stalker_2

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#24  Edited By stalker_2

read what I said a few posts ago but to clarify a huge amount of force(2.1 million tons) acted on thor for a very short time so it's obvious the yield won' t be that much ,but total yield doesn't give the complete picture power does . This could be explained like this ( a small amount of force if applied for a long time will have a greater yield than a large amount of force applied for a small time)

KryptonianKing88

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@stalker_2: That'd only be for her bullrush right? No punch is lasting 1-5 seconds, especially for a superhuman like Carol.

Alphamon

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not gonna lie, this seems pretty constant with the mainline Thor in terms of durability

physicalculturi

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@kjp said:

No one even mentions dceu here and no matter how much you wank clark he gets lolstomp

Then There's this guy.

stalker_2

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#29  Edited By stalker_2

@kryptonianking88:Yeah I was just showing you how impressive the feat could actually (even without considering the drag) but what you say is correct.

@alphamon:Yeah, you are right.

NWName

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#30  Edited By NWName

Calls me MCU downlayer

Uses timeframe of 576 seconds for the feat as if gravity made sense in the scene and as if it made sense for her to wait to fall for over 4 minutes, and gets a result 3000 times lower than what i got

Makes perfect sense /s

@stalker_2 said:

how so if you are thinking that work done by captain Marvel is not that impressive then let me tell you work done doesn't give the complete picture power does.

And here power delivered is equal to 72 kilotons of tnt to give you an idea how much is this .

If the punch lasted for 5 seconds she would have delivered a total of 360 kt of tnt just on Thor's face itself .

Yeah no, you already assumed the punch lasts 0.06/1000 = 0,00006 seconds. Stop making up shit to make it seem impressive after you already made the feat low tier with assumptions. You got the velocity to just ~14 km/s so KE is roughly 9 GJ which is nowhere close to kilotons of TNT equivalent. Also punch lasting 5 seconds while the velocity is a bit over 14 km/s would need Carol's arm to be over 70 000 meters long instead of the 0.4m you get from the "1000 times boxer hit" assumption and the last time i checked she wasn't country sized. Also 21 GN is 2.1 million tons not 21. If you are confusing kilotons (tnt) with a unit of power like watts it isn't, its a unit of energy so dividing by timeframe would not give kilotons but would give watts. At best its misleading as it makes the impact you calculated at building busting level seem far more impressive to most.

@cryaholic said:

Ok, so 21 megatons in the beginning? Gotcha

In force yes. In terms of TNT equivalent this gives about 2 tons.

@kryptonianking88 said:

@harrisonmesko: @mandabub: it's tons of force, not tnt. To get tnt, you'd multiply the N value by the distance Carol's fist covers.

That is correct and the distance here is about 40 cm as it is assumed to last 6x10^-5s and the final velocity is ~14 km/s with 0 initial velocity. This gives 7000 * 6 x10^-5 = 0.42 meters. Multiplying the force with that gives 8.9 gigajoules or 0.0021 kilotons of TNT equivalent. I did one like this initially but scrapped because to me this calc is obvious downplay as there is no way the flight lasted over 9 minutes like it would if gravity worked normally.

Ccbm2208

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Sending people across continents doesn't take only a few tons of tnt , should be obvious.

The biggest problem is that the flight time you use is a whopping 10 minutes while the actual flight time in the episode is like 10 seconds.

Sweetyx

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@nwname: You are really good at math but can you solve this

darkeryoda

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Hahaha Ft = P not mP

stalker_2

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#35  Edited By stalker_2

<Uses timeframe of 576 seconds for the feat as if gravity made sense in the scene>

576 seconds is the accurate time here for a body to rise till that altitude, no body can reach 408 Km is max height in 10 seconds ,. But you would need to know physics for that.

<;as if it made sense for her to wait to fall for over 4 minutes>

Sense has got no place in physics

<and gets a result 3000 times lower than what i got>

What you got doesn't matter since it was completely wrong ,lol

<If you are confusing kilotons (tnt) with a unit of power like watts it isn't, its a unit of energy so dividing by timeframe would not give kilotons but would give watts. At best its misleading as it makes the impact you calculated at building busting level seem far more impressive to most.>

When I said 72 kilotons of tnt is the power it clearly means this is the energy output of the punch in one second but still ,72 kilotons of tnt per second , Happy now .

<Yeah no, you already assumed the punch lasts 0.06/1000 = 0,00006 seconds. Stop making up shit to make it seem impressive after you already made the feat low tier with assumptions. You got the velocity to just ~14 km/s so KE is roughly 9 GJ which is nowhere close to kilotons of TNT equivalent.>

Total energy output isn't the 'power' lmfao here I didn't find it necessary to state it but I will do it anyways here power is time varying given by

F^2 t/m. Here F is the force given in the OP t is time in seconds and m is the mass of thor now if you know even a little bit of physics you will understand why is it so or ask I will explain , what you calculated is the total energy yield in 0.00006 seconds and I have previously stated many times work done doesn't indicate how good the feat is power does. Total yield is given by. F^2t^2/2m so for time t = 0.00006 sec total yield is not that big but power is.

<Also punch lasting 5 seconds while the velocity is a bit over 14 km/s would need Carol's arm to be over 70 000 meters long instead of the 0.4m you get from the "1000 times boxer hit" assumption and the last time i checked she wasn't country sized>

Slow brain isn't it only one word "bullrush" one of the guys even state this above.

<Also 21 GN is 2.1 million tons not 21>

Typo although doesn't matter much since force is already given in Newtons.

<I did one like this initially but scrapped>

Oh so you did what I did ,ok tell me how is dUy/dt(1/2) =. R^2 g/(R + ymax)^2

<As there is no way the flight lasted over 9 minutes like it would if gravity worked normally.>

Law of gravitation doesn't change as you want it ,lmfao .

Guy has never done physics in life ever but still tries argue over it ,lmfao .

stalker_2

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#37  Edited By stalker_2
@sweetyx said:

@nwname: You are really good at math but can you solve this

lol what , guy hasn't done precalculus and you are saying he is good at math for the reason that he can multiply divide add and subtract ???

it will be(-1)^(14-k) not ( -1)^14

This is the exact solution for the problem I did it a little differently it could also be done as:-

Integration (Sinhx^14 )dx apply reduction formula still the result won't be elegant.

stalker_2

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stalker_2

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#39  Edited By stalker_2

@ccbm2208: IT has to be 576 seconds to reach that height

stalker_2

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@nwname:tell me seriously do you really know any math or physics cuz its getting irritating.

I had told you before to check I will start cross questioning here I go first from math.

A simple one

And you won't find this anywhere on the internet so Wikipedia won't help here 😁😁😁

NWName

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<Uses timeframe of 576 seconds for the feat as if gravity made sense in the scene>

576 seconds is the accurate time here for a body to rise till that altitude, no body can reach 408 Km is max height in 10 seconds ,. But you would need to know physics for that.

<;as if it made sense for her to wait to fall for over 4 minutes>

Sense has got no place in physics

<and gets a result 3000 times lower than what i got>

What you got doesn't matter since it was completely wrong ,lol

<If you are confusing kilotons (tnt) with a unit of power like watts it isn't, its a unit of energy so dividing by timeframe would not give kilotons but would give watts. At best its misleading as it makes the impact you calculated at building busting level seem far more impressive to most.>

When I said 72 kilotons of tnt is the power is the power it clearly means this is the energy output of the punch in one second but still 72 kilotons of tnt per second , Happy now .

<Yeah no, you already assumed the punch lasts 0.06/1000 = 0,00006 seconds. Stop making up shit to make it seem impressive after you already made the feat low tier with assumptions. You got the velocity to just ~14 km/s so KE is roughly 9 GJ which is nowhere close to kilotons of TNT equivalent.>

Total energy output isn't the 'power' lmfao here I didn't find it necessary to state it but I will do it anyways here power is time varying given by

F^2 t/m. Here F is the force given in the OP t is time in seconds and m is the mass of thor now if you know even a little bit of physics you will understand why is it so or ask I will explain , what you calculated is the total energy yield in 0.00006 seconds and I have previously stated many times work done doesn't indicate how good the feat is power does. Total yield is given by. F^2t^2/2m so for time t = 0.00006 sec total yield is not that big but power is.

<Also punch lasting 5 seconds while the velocity is a bit over 14 km/s would need Carol's arm to be over 70 000 meters long instead of the 0.4m you get from the "1000 times boxer hit" assumption and the last time i checked she wasn't country sized>

Slow brain isn't it only one word "bullrush" one of the guys even state this above.

<Also 21 GN is 2.1 million tons not 21>

Typo although doesn't matter much since force is already given in Newtons.

<I did one like this initially but scrapped>

Oh so you did what I did ,ok tell me how is dUy/dt(1/2) =. R^2 g/(R + ymax)^2

<As there is no way the flight lasted over 9 minutes like it would if gravity worked normally.>

Law of gravitation doesn't change as you want it ,lmfao .

Guy has never done physics in life ever but still tries argue over it ,lmfao .

I know that. I already said it would be the case if gravity wasn't wonky in the scene.

Are you trying to say physics is nonsense? Its pretty clear in the scene she didn't scream for 9 minutes to gain altitude and wait to fall back. From the story perspective that is absurd. You are free to keep downplaying if you think the scene really represented that.

You called me downplayer because of that despite putting the feat 3+ orders of magnitude lower than i do and it is not wrong for the assumptions i made ie altitude negligible to total distance and screen time = real time. I already said there were cuts so real result should be lower but i don't think itd be by much.

You should add that first or hell not add at all as its at best deceptive to people that don't give attention to that detail. As people already took it as an upgrade over 7 kt of energy and you didnt seem to care im assuming you are intentionally misleading. Its no different than saying "Tsar bomba has a power of 1.2 billion megatons" as its power in watts is 5.3x10^24 watts or saying "a .50 cal bullet has a power of 200000000+ joules" because the impact is very brief.

Impact from someone bullrushing at you wouldn't last long either. Flying and pushing while doing that however would, but that is mostly combat inapplicable as its force would be nothing compared to delivering the same energy in a hit and the velocity wouldnt stay at a static 14 km/s if force is still applied over the duration.

2770/288,32 = 9,607 but 9,807 * (6371^2)/(6779^2) = 9,807 * 0.883 = 8.66 so it isn't even correct based on the numbers you used. Normally Uy/t(1/2) would give gravitational acceleration as it is the max velocity/time until vertical velocity gets to zero but here you seem to have only used gravity at the altitude of 408 km above surface instead of using one that goes from ~9.81 to 8.66. Using either of the gravities only doesn't give too large an error in any case.

It however changes as the writers want it to do. In the show its pretty clear Thor doesnt fall for 4+ minutes.

death4bunnies

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Are you trying to say physics is nonsense

Can i ask why you don’t think we should calc drag?

NWName

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Are you trying to say physics is nonsense

Can i ask why you don’t think we should calc drag?

Because if you do the feat can not happen and instead would be something far more different than what we see on-screen no matter the power of the hit.

death4bunnies

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@nwname said:
@death4bunnies said:

Are you trying to say physics is nonsense

Can i ask why you don’t think we should calc drag?

Because if you do the feat can not happen and instead would be something far more different than what we see on-screen no matter the power of the hit.

So ignore that part of physics? I think it could happen with drag force, I just think the hit would be a lot lot stronger.

I don’t understand how we can ignore the air drag, it seems like a pretty big factor.

NWName

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@nwname said:
@death4bunnies said:

Are you trying to say physics is nonsense

Can i ask why you don’t think we should calc drag?

Because if you do the feat can not happen and instead would be something far more different than what we see on-screen no matter the power of the hit.

So ignore that part of physics? I think it could happen with drag force, I just think the hit would be a lot lot stronger.

I don’t understand how we can ignore the air drag, it seems like a pretty big factor.

Yes, as it is ignored in the feat itself. Like i said increase the power as much as you want its not ending up anything like the feat we see happen.

Because it makes the feat impossible and the show itseld clearly ignored it. Drag being ignored is not uncommon in fiction with the most popular example i can think of being bullets going underwater in movies.

stalker_2

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@nwname: What happened ? you didn't answer my question it is an easy one.

stalker_2

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Are you trying to say physics is nonsense

Can i ask why you don’t think we should calc drag?

cuz it is not possible to solve the DE's obtained

death4bunnies

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@death4bunnies said:

Are you trying to say physics is nonsense

Can i ask why you don’t think we should calc drag?

cuz it is not possible to solve the DE's obtained

Our inability to quantify it =/= it’s inability to be quantified.

Seems to me that ignoring drag is ignoring physics.. and ignoring the most impressive part of the feat.

stalker_2

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Yeah you are right although it can be quantified but a little differently than what people expect it to be. May be I will do it later but even without it th feat is really good.