Avatar image for hereforoneshot
#1 Posted by HereForOneShot (174 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't realize there are edgelords among professional writers:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2019/05/07/avengers-endgame-biodiversity/

The basic few key points you can get from the article by the above writer is:

  • Humanity growth is correlated to decline in biodiversity
  • Fewer people means less pollution and more biodiversity, which you can hear from one quote in Avengers: Endgame
  • Avengers are the villains from mother nature's perspective because they put the grief of the survivors above the health of mother nature
  • There's mass extinction events in Earth's history but life bounced back everytime. Thanos' snap may not have been that bad

Although the writer did mention one thing - Thanos should've targeted overconsumption instead of overpopulation, so maybe there's an element of truth in that specific opinion.

YOUR opinion? Discuss

Avatar image for au_141
#2 Posted by Au_141 (1049 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao. Thanos’ plan was temporary solution at best. If he’s using extinction excuse then why not wait till the next one occurs naturally instead of taking it into your own hands

Avatar image for mazahs117
#3 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12845 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean he wasn’t wrong, but ultimately....ironically...his crusade is/was only delaying the inevitable

..nothing more than just a fancy shamancy reason to kill people imho, but hey, it’s Thanos, that’s what he does 🤷‍♂️

Online
Avatar image for rebake
#4 Posted by Rebake (4559 posts) - - Show Bio

The second plan definitely is much more permanent. Everyone dies, and then he'd create ideal (in his eyes) life forms who are grateful.

Avatar image for the_titan_lord
#5 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (9480 posts) - - Show Bio

hhhhmmm

Avatar image for huthimamwa
#6 Posted by huthimamwa (2583 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: which brings up the question of whether or not he would even survive using the stones to essentially Universe-bust. Using the stones to destroy the stones mearly killed him. Using them to destroy the entire universe "down to its last atom" would almost certainly kill him.

Avatar image for rebake
#7 Posted by Rebake (4559 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: which brings up the question of whether or not he would even survive using the stones to essentially Universe-bust. Using the stones to destroy the stones mearly killed him. Using them to destroy the entire universe "down to its last atom" would almost certainly kill him.

Somehow, Hulk knew Black Widow didn't return from the snap despite not going to Vormir, so maybe the stones communicate to the user what can or can't be done and then the user proceeds with what can be done. Hulk snapped the dusted back, but not Natasha, all in one move. There was an entire scene with Thanos and child Gamora in IW, but to Thor, it was only a moment, so what the stones show the user can be done a a speed the user can understand, but from the outside, we just see the snap and the results. Thanos at the very least was going for population wiping, which is within his capabilities, and building life in small amounts would not cause severe burns unless he tried to do it for every once populated planet all at once. But then, destroying the stones would probably kill him since he already would've taken double damage comparable to that from the snap and destroying the stones.

Avatar image for unusual_suspect
#8 Posted by Unusual_Suspect (779 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake said:
@huthimamwa said:

@rebake: which brings up the question of whether or not he would even survive using the stones to essentially Universe-bust. Using the stones to destroy the stones mearly killed him. Using them to destroy the entire universe "down to its last atom" would almost certainly kill him.

Somehow, Hulk knew Black Widow didn't return from the snap despite not going to Vormir, so maybe the stones communicate to the user what can or can't be done and then the user proceeds with what can be done. Hulk snapped the dusted back, but not Natasha, all in one move. There was an entire scene with Thanos and child Gamora in IW, but to Thor, it was only a moment, so what the stones show the user can be done a a speed the user can understand, but from the outside, we just see the snap and the results. Thanos at the very least was going for population wiping, which is within his capabilities, and building life in small amounts would not cause severe burns unless he tried to do it for every once populated planet all at once. But then, destroying the stones would probably kill him since he already would've taken double damage comparable to that from the snap and destroying the stones.

Even if the stones DID communicate their limits with use, the Thanos making the claim that he'd unmake the entire universe's life and start from scratch hadn't wielded the Infinity Gauntlet (at best, MAYBE a stone through the scepter he entrusted to Loki), so he couldn't have been told by the Stones it could be done.

Avatar image for rebake
#9 Posted by Rebake (4559 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake said:
@huthimamwa said:

@rebake: which brings up the question of whether or not he would even survive using the stones to essentially Universe-bust. Using the stones to destroy the stones mearly killed him. Using them to destroy the entire universe "down to its last atom" would almost certainly kill him.

Somehow, Hulk knew Black Widow didn't return from the snap despite not going to Vormir, so maybe the stones communicate to the user what can or can't be done and then the user proceeds with what can be done. Hulk snapped the dusted back, but not Natasha, all in one move. There was an entire scene with Thanos and child Gamora in IW, but to Thor, it was only a moment, so what the stones show the user can be done a a speed the user can understand, but from the outside, we just see the snap and the results. Thanos at the very least was going for population wiping, which is within his capabilities, and building life in small amounts would not cause severe burns unless he tried to do it for every once populated planet all at once. But then, destroying the stones would probably kill him since he already would've taken double damage comparable to that from the snap and destroying the stones.

Even if the stones DID communicate their limits with use, the Thanos making the claim that he'd unmake the entire universe's life and start from scratch hadn't wielded the Infinity Gauntlet (at best, MAYBE a stone through the scepter he entrusted to Loki), so he couldn't have been told by the Stones it could be done.

No he'd be told at the moment of the snap. We just see Hulk snap, yet he knows who didn't return within that moment. Thanos would snap, the stones say yes or no, and then the affect takes place. Dusting doesn't happen immediately, so the stones have that moment to communicate.

Avatar image for bumpyboo
#10 Posted by BumpyBoo (14798 posts) - - Show Bio

Wiping out millions/billions of people okay if it's for the greater good? Quite a warm take, that. Bit toasty.

Moderator
Avatar image for deactivated-5cd6fe3f211bb
#11 Posted by deactivated-5cd6fe3f211bb (353 posts) - - Show Bio

nothing wrong, lets see mcu thanos destroyed a galaxy planet by planet*, tortured nebula, destroyed xandar, destroyed the asgardian people, wiped out half the population of the entire universe, hugely threaten people for a few stones and threaten again to destroy the entire universe, took of a dwarf's hands (after that dwarf helped him create the infinity gauntlet), destroyed the dwarven people, destroy gamora's homeworld, committed other mass slaughters*, killed his daughter, attack defenseless foes, severely injure multiple heroes, fire on his own troops, order his children to kill their pets in battle to get through a force-field (battle of wakanda infinity war), and force his other children to make sadistic choices while ordering them to kill trillions of others

if you don't find any of that wrong, then idk

Avatar image for edamame
#12 Edited by Edamame (28605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hereforoneshot: I think the issue might be that overpopulation tends to contribute to a decrease in living standards.

Avatar image for ileo
#13 Posted by iLeo (102 posts) - - Show Bio

That writer is a vegan and animal activist extremist too.

Avatar image for hereforoneshot
#14 Posted by HereForOneShot (174 posts) - - Show Bio

@ileo: where is it stated that he's an animal activist and vegan?

@edamame: the writer had narrowed down the down the issue to overconsumption as opposed to overpopulation. He pointed out that the risks of overpopulation had been highlighted for decades to centuries but nothing had happened.

Avatar image for killbilly
#15 Edited by KillBilly (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is, Thanos's goal wasn't to spare things like plants or beast from suffering or extinction but rather the people of developed civilizations. His original plan was flawed in 3 major ways:

1. Life repopulates until it hits an equilibrium point making his solution an extremely temporary one ( I.E. one that would've been completely irrelevant within a few generations ).

2. Going by his and others statements, he wiped out half of ALL life meaning the lives of those creatures usually used as resources ( plants and beasts ). That being the case, he didn't even give the remaining sentient people proportionally more resources making the entire thing pointless.

3. He actually would have done more harm then good to the remaining survivors given the immediate destruction of half of all life would leave the majority of civilizations in chaos since most of their leadership and infrastructure would have disappeared.

His new plan actually made sense, but it suggests Thanos doesn't view life as having any inherent value which begs the question of why he's doing any of this in the first place.

Avatar image for mrmonster
#16 Edited by mrmonster (15903 posts) - - Show Bio

He's right. After all, populations take forever to recover. The last time the Earth had half the population we have now, it was the 1400s.

Oh wait, that was a joke, it's only been since the 1970s. That's right, the 1970s, barely 50 years ago. Even if Thanos's plan would make life better, it would only do so for one generation before things are back to normal. Even if there would be benefits of The Snap, only 1 generation would see them.

In short, Thanos is committing the greatest atrocity in the history of the universe just so 1 generation can have a slightly greener Earth. I'm all for environmentalism, but this is just nuts.

Avatar image for hereforoneshot
#17 Posted by HereForOneShot (174 posts) - - Show Bio

His new plan actually made sense, but it suggests Thanos doesn't view life as having any inherent value which begs the question of why he's doing any of this in the first place.

This demonstrates the writer's intention to show that Thanos never really had any altruistic intentions in the first place, his population halving BS was the result of his own obsession of proving himself correct after he went mad from witnessing his home world's destruction.

Avatar image for battle123axe
#18 Edited by Battle123axe (9157 posts) - - Show Bio

@bumpyboo said:

Wiping out millions/billions of people okay if it's for the greater good? Quite a warm take, that. Bit toasty.

Avatar image for killbilly
#19 Edited by KillBilly (2287 posts) - - Show Bio
@hereforoneshot said:
@killbilly said:

His new plan actually made sense, but it suggests Thanos doesn't view life as having any inherent value which begs the question of why he's doing any of this in the first place.

This demonstrates the writer's intention to show that Thanos never really had any altruistic intentions in the first place, his population halving BS was the result of his own obsession of proving himself correct after he went mad from witnessing his home world's destruction.

I can dig that interpretation, but it'd be cool if this was confirmed. I'm kind of hesitant about explaining away potential flaws in the director's writing with personal interpretations.

Avatar image for daisy_johnson
#20 Edited by Daisy_Johnson (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrmonster said:

He's right. After all, populations take forever to recover. The last time the Earth had half the population we have now, it was the 1400s.

Oh wait, that was a joke, it's only been since the 1970s. That's right, the 1970s, barely 50 years ago. Even if Thanos's plan would make life better, it would only do so for one generation before things are back to normal. Even if there would be benefits of The Snap, only 1 generation would see them.

In short, Thanos is committing the greatest atrocity in the history of the universe just so 1 generation can have a slightly greener Earth. I'm all for environmentalism, but this is just nuts.

He needs to snap out the horny people who can't stop popping out babies. Why it's okay or ethical to have 6 or 7+ children is disgustingly selfish. 2 to 3 should be the max. In North America most citizens have families of 1-3 children on average because that is what economically sustainable, where Middle Eastern and Aboriginals tend to get money and funding from the governments and have 4-5 children on average per family. We are at the point where the only morally ethical solution is to impose a child limit law like China has, until we can terra-form Mars and start sending people over (Snapping life in to dead planets and working them into being hospitable would be a good cause). In otherwords yes, over population is a problem. No we do not have viable of ethical solution in the works. Preservation of the human race is pretty important and we're running our future into the ground with a "me first" society.

Avatar image for jedixman
#21 Posted by JediXMan (42860 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not, though. The population would return to normal levels relatively quickly.

Consider this: the world population, right now, is 7 billion (it hit 7 billion around 2010). The first time it hit 1 billion was 1800, and the last time it was 3.5 billion (half the population) was around 1970. It doubled in 40 years.

At the absolutely worst, it would take 40 years to return to pre-snap levels.

Moderator
Avatar image for saberscar223
#24 Posted by Saberscar223 (4455 posts) - - Show Bio

@au_141: I’ve heard the time stone makes it so his efforts remain. And even if it was his thing was giving life a second chance so either way it makes sense

Avatar image for eternaldarkfury
#25 Posted by EternalDarkFury (2510 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for thormight
#26 Posted by ThorMight (20 posts) - - Show Bio

My opinion is that he should consult a fucking psychiatrist.

Avatar image for jedixman
#27 Posted by JediXMan (42860 posts) - - Show Bio
@edamame said:

@jedixman said:

The population would return to normal levels relatively quickly

Not necessarily. There are many countries around the world that continue to experience a negative birth rate. So that would probably prevent a return to the original population size.

Not necessarily with the overabundance of resources.

But yes you're right, on the micro level you might see that, but not globally. Globally it would return to normal, as would the universe in general.

Moderator
Avatar image for captain_narlowe
#28 Posted by Captain_Narlowe (151 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree completely, Thanos is cool but his plan was nuts.

Avatar image for mekboy
#29 Posted by Mekboy (2754 posts) - - Show Bio

He did.

He didn't kill Cap.

Avatar image for killbilly
#30 Edited by KillBilly (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

@edamame said:

@jedixman said:

The population would return to normal levels relatively quickly

Not necessarily. There are many countries around the world that continue to experience a negative birth rate. So that would probably prevent a return to the original population size.

And do you know why that is? Because we're reaching the equilibrium point that our current resources allow us to sustain. If the population was cut in half, do you think that would still be the case?

Avatar image for ovy7
#31 Posted by ovy7 (3263 posts) - - Show Bio

If I'll write here my honest opinion then I'll probably be banned, so I'll just go with a simple They Are Wrong. Killing half of the liming beings in the universe would cause infinitely more problems than, say, increasing the resources in the universes (like, for real, that's one of the easiest solutions, Thanos. What the hell?!).

Online
Avatar image for killbilly
#33 Edited by KillBilly (2287 posts) - - Show Bio

@edamame: Don't know about feminisim, though you're right that education and wealth have a large part to play.

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
#34 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36890 posts) - - Show Bio

I read the entire article. He totally ignores the plot of the movie. Thanos could have snapped his fingers and created a universe in which everyone was happy and had never ending resources. In IW it seems like the Gauntlet has limits, in Endgame we learn it doesn’t it’s just that the user is limited to a certain amount of “snaps” or uses due to the Gauntlet taxing the health of the user.

“And while there’s no doubt that he’s a mass murderer, it’s misleading to use provocative language like ‘kill’ or ‘genocide’, or say that using the infinity stones ‘wiped-out’ half the population. The snap itself simply erased people from existence.”

He didn’t simply erase people. He said that’s what he was going to do, but that’s not what he actually did and he admits that in Endgame. Erasing them from existence would mean not leaving anyone around to suffer their loss and memory.

Avatar image for metaljimmor
#35 Posted by MetalJimmor (6579 posts) - - Show Bio

After Endgame Thanos is more wrong than ever.

1. We got confirmation that Thanos didn't wipe out half of all intelligent life. He wiped out half of every "creature", which means he crippled the populations of every species of animal and plant (judging by Groot) in the universe. This means he didn't save "mother nature" and did more harm to the biodiversity of the universe than he did good.

2. We learned that Thanos planned to destroy the gems when he was done with them, meaning that he straight up didn't accommodate for the concept of reproduction. He apparently thought every species in the universe would just maintain an equilibrium after having a massive population loss and subsequent excess of resources, which is incredibly unlikely even assuming every species reproduces the same as humans (they probably don't).

He basically gutted the universe and then planned to retire to a farm, leaving everyone to pick up the pieces after.

Avatar image for doofasa
#36 Edited by Doofasa (2229 posts) - - Show Bio
@killbilly said:
@hereforoneshot said:
@killbilly said:

His new plan actually made sense, but it suggests Thanos doesn't view life as having any inherent value which begs the question of why he's doing any of this in the first place.

This demonstrates the writer's intention to show that Thanos never really had any altruistic intentions in the first place, his population halving BS was the result of his own obsession of proving himself correct after he went mad from witnessing his home world's destruction.

I can dig that interpretation, but it'd be cool if this was confirmed. I'm kind of hesitant about explaining away potential flaws in the director's writing with personal interpretations.

Here's an interview with the Russos where they explain that Thanos is indeed a sociopath and insane, and that is why his plan was ultimately flawed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG-ncCgAhe4

Avatar image for emperorb777
#37 Edited by Emperorb777 (11371 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos is only as stupid as the Directors and writers of the films.