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#1 Posted by BlackLegRaph (5058 posts) - - Show Bio

The importance of feats have been stressed for a long time on the Vine, but it seems like many still can't stop themselves from taking writers or authors statements as being all-important even though a character does not have feats to back up said statements.

An excuse I recently saw was that inconsistencies are to be expected when multiple authors are involved, but if it is just a single author it is then valid. What do you think? Do you think statements, whether directly from a single author or datasheet trump the lack of feats?

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#2 Posted by EcstaticGrace (6394 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the statement I think any single statement needs some valid showing behind it, but if multiple writers back up the statement then I'd see it as something given a bit of validity.

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#3 Posted by just_banter (11061 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats > Statements. Take Oda saying that Kuro can move at the same pace as CP9 agents for proof of this.

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#4 Posted by iknowwhoyouare (1260 posts) - - Show Bio
  • If a character destroys a planet on panel, they are a planet buster
  • If a character destroys a planet on panel and the writer says otherwise, they are still a planet buster
  • If a character doesn't destroy a planet on panel but the writer says otherwise, they are still a planet buster
  • If a character doesn't destroy a planet on panel and the writer says they can't, then they are not a planet buster
  • If a character doesn't destroy a planet on panel, they are not a planet buster

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#5 Posted by Zetsumoto (18562 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats > Logic > Statements.

However, don't confuse a lack of a feat for a negative one.

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#6 Posted by The_Red_Viper (9997 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: logic is > anything else.

I have scans that, according to simple calcs, show that Green Arrow can fire arrows faster than a machine gun, and Hal Jordan can travel many thousands of times FTL without trying too hard.

Makes no sense right?

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#7 Posted by Midnight_Dragon (300 posts) - - Show Bio

Statements are just as good as feats, i find it funny that people would disagree with a creator about their own series...

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#8 Edited by Royal_Warrior (3009 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats >= character statements

Statement > feats if it's the author Statement and not A character statement

For example the Infamous Wally west feat, you take the author statement rather than the Calcs of the feat

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#9 Posted by SC (17549 posts) - - Show Bio

Actions portrayed in fiction aren't subject to the same forces that apply in reality, which makes them inherently subjective, and whilst there can be some objective elements (consistency, perceptions, gauging intent of the narrative, familiarity and knowledge of subject) its still largely subjective and because of the nature of fiction can be discarded, ignored, rewritten, clarified, retconned, in universe or… through creator, writers, or editors who have some sort of authority to do so. Even readers have the ability to do so, just that because all readers can, no one has an obligation to believe your interpretation has any extra merit or validity, though they may if you are good at justifying your reasoning. Alternatively in reality no matter how good your reasoning and theories are (well, hypothesis) are, if in conflict with facts, laws, other kinds of evidence, it needs to either account for those and offer explanations for the discrepancies as well as offer its own types of evidence (essentially making it a theory) or its dismissed or put on the shelf alongside other clever reasoning/philosophical insights that for various reason can't be tested or explored with greater depth.

So in reality no one gets special authority as far as deciding reality based on how they feel or what they wish, even if some make that claim. With fiction? However its a bit different. There is some inherent authority that creators and owners of fictional works have over the characters and events in their story. Since readers can't misinterpret characters, intent and events, including feats, a writer's statement clarifying what happened in a story they created is superior to any thing interpreted by others. You can fault or criticize a creators ability to make a narrative clear or easy to interpret, yet readers and the creators can also criticize and fault readers ability to comprehend and understand stories as well. Basically there are some people who are not as intelligent or wise as others who think that there interpretation of a story is definitely right and everyone else is stupid and that the author either agrees with them or they are just going off "what the page/panel said…" alternatively… creators are not ultimate authorities on all fiction, occasionally not even the fiction they create (many Marvel and DC writers ultimately have to bow to other writers/editors over creative decisions/mandates if they are outranked in the companies/business hierarchy/authority structure. They authority creators do have is usually limited to their own work, and well its a bit like arguing over someone with how they feel. Imagine someone trying to tell you how to write your fan fiction? It gets a bit more complicated when a writer is talking about other stories and characters… I mean the term writer statements is a bit silly. There is writer insight into their own creative processes and there is writer speculation about other writers stories.

I mean there isn't really a feats vs authors statement conflict either, authors decide and incorporate in story moments and narrative actions that can be perceived as feats or considered feats. If someone desires to emphasis on certain aspects like consistency or knowledge (like for 50 years XYZMan has been able to lift 100 tons, and in the latest issue of XYZMan and ABCGirl #367 the author made a statement that he can't lift over 20 tons) this isn't a case of feats vs author statements but a conflict of creative processes (including but not necessarily limited to ignorance) and creative authority/control over a comic/character/IP potentially among other things.

The other thing to remember is that most people who pay for punished stories, may appreciate a degree of consistency and action, only a very small minority are into "feats" and if a creator really cared about that segment of customers and making it clear that their statements about what a character could do, are to be taken super seriously to that minority, that could just have that character do absolutely, anything they wanted as limited by their imagination and ability to get sued. Incidentally in reality, people and individuals tend to give more authority of a sort to groups and individuals that demonstrate competence and knowledge when it comes to things, including what they assert or attempt to assert as facts. So when making your posts my friends, try and be the EIC of Marvel or DC and not just a fan fiction writer (or alternatively if this makes for a better analogy, try and be Grant Morrison or Alan Moore instead of Greg Land)

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#10 Posted by Debelindzo (810 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats combined with logic,like Red Viper said,are on the top.

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#11 Edited by Debelindzo (810 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by The_Red_Viper (9997 posts) - - Show Bio

@debelindzo: I'm on mobile so not at the moment. But I'll try to remember to do it in a few hours when I'm back hime.

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#13 Edited by DBVSE7 (8192 posts) - - Show Bio

If the author says so, it is so. It's not our place to question it. Now if it's just a character statement (something that MAY SEEM like hyperbole) there's needs to be some visual proof. Simple as that.

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#14 Posted by Costy21 (991 posts) - - Show Bio

  • If a character destroys a planet on panel, they are a planet buster
  • If a character destroys a planet on panel and the writer says otherwise, they are still a planet buster
  • If a character doesn't destroy a planet on panel but the writer says otherwise, they are still a planet buster
  • If a character doesn't destroy a planet on panel and the writer says they can't, then they are not a planet buster
  • If a character doesn't destroy a planet on panel, they are not a planet buster

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#15 Posted by DBVSE7 (8192 posts) - - Show Bio

The only times the author statement should be questions is when the characters feats contradict in any way.

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#16 Posted by Debelindzo (810 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by linsanel_Doctor (8630 posts) - - Show Bio

equally important except if you're on the vine

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#18 Posted by The_Red_Viper (9997 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Now maybe?Lol

There ya go:

No Caption Provided

The first arrow went about 10 centimeters before Oliver had another arrow on the way. Arrows go at approx 400 FPS. 1 foot=30 centimeters. So, arrows go at 12,000 centimeters a second. So, an arrow would go 10 centimeters in 1/1,200 of a second. Which means Ollie can pull an arrow out of his quiver, nock, draw, aim (with uncanny accuracy) and fire in 1/1,200 of a second.

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#19 Posted by cpt_nice (9222 posts) - - Show Bio

In order of best to worst.

Feats which clearly are not PIS

e.g. Spidey dodging bullets, as he does this consistently

'Word of god'/author's word which seems logical

Character A has been shown to create moon craters with his pinky. Author says he could planetbust

Scaling

Character B stomps C in strength and C is strong enough to lift a car, B should be at least strong enough to lift a really large car

Feats which can be interpreted as PIS or illogical for the character

Character D can suddenly move at supersonic speeds for some ill explained reason, or no reason at all.

Word of god that goes against logic

Character A is lightspeed because that sounds cool.

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#20 Posted by Debelindzo (810 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Royal_Warrior (3009 posts) - - Show Bio

Authors Statements> Feats> Character statements

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#23 Posted by mimisalome (3333 posts) - - Show Bio

Statements are more objective specially if the author detailed the specifics.

Feats (and dialogues) are subject to interpretations which could vary from person to person. Feat analysis typically regress into an argument of logic vs artistic presentation.

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#24 Posted by LDM (1618 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats > Logic > Statements.

However, don't confuse a lack of a feat for a negative one.

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#25 Posted by Guru_Crack (9876 posts) - - Show Bio

The author's statement only counts if he is the creator of the character. That is the most logical.

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#26 Posted by Y2G (256 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: How do you come to the conclusion that it's 10 cm? The picture isn't drawn to actual scale.

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#27 Edited by The_Red_Viper (9997 posts) - - Show Bio

@y2g said:

@the_red_viper: How do you come to the conclusion that it's 10 cm? The picture isn't drawn to actual scale.

Best guess I could make. He has better feats of that same type regardless.

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#28 Posted by JediXMan (39520 posts) - - Show Bio

It depends, and should always be taken on a case-by-case basis.

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#29 Edited by KrleAvenger (23001 posts) - - Show Bio

The author's statement only counts if he is the creator of the character. That is the most logical.

Not even then to be honest. Sentry's creator Paul Jenkins stated that he is above Beyonder, a Nigh-Omnipotent being, while based on feats, he is barely on Superman's level (excluding Death Seed Sentry and the Void, and even then he is not on Surfer's level). Honestly, the only times when writer's statement counts is when they explain something that is not confusing/vague or pretty debatable.

For example, Rune King Thor destroying the World Tree. We don't know how impressive that feat is since we don't know how much power is necessary to destroy it. If the writer explained it, then it is valid. However, when it comes to statements like Superman being above Galactus, or Odin being planetary threat only, that should just be ignored.

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#30 Posted by Y2G (256 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I'm sure he has some crazy ones but I think in this instance it's not quite that bad. Probably closer to slightly under 1/200 of a second which is still impossible.

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#31 Posted by Guru_Crack (9876 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: I was going by common sense, it appears common sense isn't valid due to writers not knowing how to compare characters. It is hard to judge with varying feats so I suppose is hard as the creator of Batman could say he's defo better than Daredevil then the creator of Daredevil going no Daredevil is better than Batman ect...

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#32 Posted by KrleAvenger (23001 posts) - - Show Bio

@guru_crack: That is exactly the reason why their statements are invalid way to use as an argument. Because there will be other writers that disagree with the former, so it turns into "writer A's word against writer B's word". That is why we are using on panel evidence.

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#33 Posted by Lord_Spectrum (1209 posts) - - Show Bio

Author statements >>> any feats, all day every day. ^_^

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#34 Posted by Guru_Crack (9876 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Essentially it's impossible to ever compare. I mean I still get over Superman beating Goku on death battles and I don't even like Dragon Ball Z all that much. They are just not meant to be compared.

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#35 Posted by KrleAvenger (23001 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Guru_Crack (9876 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: Yea probably best just to keep opinions to yourself even though most battles are hard to judge as msot people have read different stories.

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#37 Posted by GXrevs06 (1764 posts) - - Show Bio

It really comes down to feats vs Logic. None of the androids in DBZ have displayed anywhere planet busting power on panel but we know that they're 100% planet+ by calling to Frieza, who is canonically fodder to them

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#38 Posted by ThunderPrince (1004 posts) - - Show Bio

@ldm said:
@zetsumoto said:

Feats > Logic > Statements.

However, don't confuse a lack of a feat for a negative one.

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#39 Edited by DeathandGrim (3237 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes the author's statements are just flat out inaccurate when paired with the calcs or logic like this one where it was state Flash went just under Light speed but to pull this off in the time window he did he'd have to be going far beyond that.

No Caption Provided

So I'd agree with On panel > Logic/Calcs > Statements