ENDGAME SPOILERS Thor's hammer question

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#1 Edited by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Mjolnir actually grant Thor's powers to the worthy wielder like Odin said? It seems like there was more to wielding Mjolnir than simply wielding it. It seemed to buff Cap's stats and give him magical control.

In Endgame, not only does Cap have the ability to summon and spin Mjolnir, but channel lightning. He can hit hard enough with it to hurt Thanos and knock him back. It also seemed like his shield strikes became stronger. IIRC, Cap breaks Thanos' helmet. Cap doesn't just lift the hammer but seems stronger when wielding it. Then there's lightning control when last I checked, there's no button on Mjolnir. So it's magically linked up to Cap's mind and the connection holds even from a distance so he can summon it and the connection seems to extend to Stormbreaker. However, Cap can still get hurt more easily than Thor when disarmed of Mjolnir it seems, and he still ages normally without it. So is it that Cap gains the power of Thor only when holding the hammer and tapping into its magic? Or did it give him a passive buff that only applies to attack power? How and to what extent was Mjolnir boosting Cap? How does it work?

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#2 Posted by Lan_Fan (18551 posts) - - Show Bio

He became phase 1 Thor, basically.

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#3 Posted by Richubs (7477 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan:

Not in terms of strength and stuff but he ony got the powers

Thor's strength and other things are part of his physiology.

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#4 Posted by weavile (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor. Basically Thor is still powerful without Mjolnir, and Mjolnir grant those who hold the hammer a power similar to Thor (which Thor i don't know) as long as you don't let go of the hammer.

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#5 Posted by Lan_Fan (18551 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: When Odin stripped Thor's power, he also lost his physiology, so I guess it's also part of his power. When Thor lost Mjolnir in Ragnarok, he never lost his power, different case.

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#6 Posted by RabumAlal (5430 posts) - - Show Bio

He wielded Stormbreaker so was probably amped.

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#7 Posted by Richubs (7477 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan:

Yeah but so did Vision and we didn't see any changes in him.

Captain didn't get Thor's power he only got Mjolnir because he was worthy enough weild it.

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#8 Edited by rogueshadow (29594 posts) - - Show Bio

I think he probably did get the full powerset of Thor as per Odin's incantation. Basically like Jane Foster in the comics.

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#9 Posted by Lan_Fan (18551 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: Vision is just a robot though... Vision didn't get lightning power either.

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#10 Posted by Daisy_Johnson (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

He was the worthy Cap. He summoned a chain blast of lighting and wielded Mjölnir like he was having a sword fight with Thanos. He's so proficient with it. Honestly, I don't even know if I can say they are equals as Steve was far more effective against Thanos in EndGame than Thor was with Stormbreaker. He even was able to hold Stormbreaker for a brief second and traded back with Thor. Steve's combat expertise is better than Thor's, but I don't think he can fly unless he was to use Mjölnir like how Quicksilver got pulled by it. Cap is a whole different beast with his combat expertise when he has Mjölnir and if Odin's statements are to be taken for granted, then he has Thor's powerset.

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#11 Edited by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: Based on what happened, I think it gave him a mild buff of stats along with Thor’s ability to control lightning. It’s vague as to just how great an extent it worked but I still wouldn’t say that he was not on Thor’s physical level since he got damaged by Thanos rather easily.

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#12 Posted by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@daisy_johnson: To be fair, Thor became an overweight drunk in that film. IW Thor is still a league ahead of Cap.

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#13 Posted by Thorthunder98 (6947 posts) - - Show Bio

Well he got "the power of Thor" so he would've got his lightning powers and his strength and durability while being the wielder of it.

Like if a normal human lifted it they'd get Thor's strength and everything etc just like people in the comics do.

But Thor still retains all his power because it's his anyways

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#14 Posted by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: Do you think Cap just got boosted to normal Asgardian levels? I think Thor's strength and durable are specific to him, and he can get weaker if he is out of shape. So Thor's exact strength probably wouldn't come from Mjolnir. But Cap did seem to get a boost with how he was staggering and knocking back Thanos.

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#15 Posted by pkety (335 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs: nah Thor’s strength was from the hammer too. Thor struggled against a field agent in Thor 1

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#16 Edited by IAmTheLaw (930 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap got a boost to Thor's level. That includes his physical ability.

Thor is more or less equal to what he was in Endgame, just a bit heavier. He's thousands of years old, 5 years of binge drinking is almost nothing for him.

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#17 Posted by KingLouie (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap doesn't have enhanced Durability or Strength. Thor was born with that. I'm sure.

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#18 Edited by MonsterStomp (36987 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve did possess the power of Thor. Thor just unlocked a dormant ability which is why he no longer needs the Mjolnir to conjure lighting or storms.

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#19 Posted by ThorofAsgard (808 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety: that’s because Odin stripper his powers not just the hammer. He also said in Ragnarok that “Thor isn’t the God of hammers, but the God of thunder” therefore saying that Thor is still powerful without the weapons. He can summon lightning with his hands basically, or mind really.

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#20 Edited by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: I mean that I think it amped Captain America, otherwise hitting Thanos would do virtually nothing. That hammer is only 42 pounds based on what I know. I think that he was around Asgardian level. Thor is just naturally powerful.

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#21 Posted by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety: He also beat the tar out of Hulk in Thor Ragnarok without the hammer. That movie made the point that Thor doesn’t need his hammer.

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#22 Posted by Namebk (1812 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: I mean that I think it amped Captain America, otherwise hitting Thanos would do virtually nothing. That hammer is only 42 pounds based on what I know. Thor is just naturally powerful.

The amp is a bit iffy since his kick managed to throw Thanos slightly off balance before he got Mjolnir. He gets Mjolnir then knees Thanos in the stomach which again throws Thanos slightly off balance. It's the Mjolnir hits that are doing the most damage to Thanos. Unless it amps his arms but not his legs.

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#23 Edited by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: Like I said, it was kind of vague. Cap was making him budge but didn't do any real damage.

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#24 Posted by Namebk (1812 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: Thor was........not exactly in his prime.

What you mean? I thought you were discussing the Mjolnir amp that Cap got?

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#25 Posted by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: I made a mistake, read the edit.

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#26 Posted by Namebk (1812 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: Like I said, it was kind of vague. Cap was making him budge but didn't do any real damage.

Yea that's why I said I'm not so sure if it amped him because his kick was very similar before and after Mjolnir.

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#27 Edited by Mister_Surreal (12186 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: My point is that Cap was doing actual damage after getting the hammer, like breaking Thanos' helmet. Before, the most that he could do was push Thanos around just slightly. I think saying that an unamped Captain America can hurt Thanos even with the hammer is a pretty big overestimation since he was tanking Hulk's blows like he was a child.

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#28 Edited by Namebk (1812 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@namebk: My point is that Cap was doing actual damage after getting the hammer, like breaking Thanos' helmet. Before, the most that he could do was push him around. I think saying that an unamped Captain America can hurt Thanos even with the hammer is a pretty big overestimation since he was tanking Hulk's blows like he was a child.

That was my point that I mentioned earlier about the two kicks he landed on Thanos. His kicks budged Thanos before Mjolnir and after. It could be Mjolnir that's hurting Thanos because it is still a weapon after all. Mjolnir also has some very good striking feats in Phase 1. Looking at a scene a thrown Mjolnir moved Thanos without much trouble. That's why I said its kind of iffy because there seems to be some inconsistency. I would like to hear your opinion on this.

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#29 Posted by Black_Arrow (10298 posts) - - Show Bio

He got the power of Thor.

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#30 Posted by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: The second time Cap kicked Thanos, he had his full attention. We know from Infinity War that Thanos can be moved more easily when hit by surprise. And from a (albeit blurry) clip I saw, the shield appears to hurt Thanos too. Maybe not Thor level strength, but possibly standard Asgardian strength/striking. I think Cap may have also tanked his own lighting from slamming Mjolnir on the ground (he was very close and the lightning spread out from the point of impact. But I'd need to watch a clearer clip.

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#31 Posted by Namebk (1812 posts) - - Show Bio
@rebake said:

@namebk: The second time Cap kicked Thanos, he had his full attention. We know from Infinity War that Thanos can be moved more easily when hit by surprise. And from a (albeit blurry) clip I saw, the shield appears to hurt Thanos too. Maybe not Thor level strength, but possibly standard Asgardian strength/striking. I think Cap may have also tanked his own lighting from slamming Mjolnir on the ground (he was very close and the lightning spread out from the point of impact. But I'd need to watch a clearer clip.

So you think he got a small buff? Also about the lightning I would just assume since it's his it wouldn't hurt him. I can't remember if Thor was ever hurt by his own lightning or not but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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#32 Posted by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

@namebk: Mjolnir might also grant resistance to lightning (it's one of Thor's passive abilities), the way electricity was coming out from that strike makes it hard to believe Cap wasn't touched by any of it. Seeing that Cap only has enough electrical resistance to resist shock batons, that was definitely an extremely risky attack if he wasn't lightning resistant at that moment.

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#33 Posted by Namebk (1812 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake said:

@namebk: Mjolnir might also grant resistance to lightning (it's one of Thor's passive abilities), the way electricity was coming out from that strike makes it hard to believe Cap wasn't touched by any of it. Seeing that Cap only has enough electrical resistance to resist shock batons, that was definitely an extremely risky attack if he wasn't lightning resistant at that moment.

This makes sense because he would be getting hurt by his own attacks. Watching the scene again with a clearer picture his durability definitely seems to have increased since he was able to take a couple hits from Thanos. He managed to parry Thanos attacks with his shield as well and block consecutive strikes with his shield.

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#34 Edited by Thor_Parker82 (16707 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, I don't know why so many people have trouble or are confused grasping this, this is very easy to understand, even the explanation is literally written in the hammer.

Anyone who wields Mjolnir gets the powers of Thor, strength, durability, lightning summoning......as simple as that, so of course Captain America was buffed.

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#35 Posted by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: at this point it's a question of how buffed. Is he current Thor's equal or phase 1/phase 2 Thor's equal? Or standard Asgardian stats but Thor's extra powers?

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#36 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16707 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake said:

@thor_parker82: at this point it's a question of how buffed. Is he current Thor's equal or phase 1/phase 2 Thor's equal? Or standard Asgardian stats but Thor's extra powers?

Technically Phase 1 Thor and IW Thor are the same stat wise, same durability, same strength, the only difference is his mastery over the lightning.

So, he'd be the same as Thor from any movie, without the lightning mastery.

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#37 Edited by titing2101 (1322 posts) - - Show Bio
@thor_parker82 said:

Man, I don't know why so many people have trouble or are confused grasping this, this is very easy to understand, even the explanation is literally written in the hammer.

Anyone who wields Mjolnir gets the powers of Thor, strength, durability, lightning summoning......as simple as that, so of course Captain America was buffed.

I think that some people here are not familiar with the comics and it really is confusing if they dont know how odins magic and the enchantment works.

Odin is very powerful, just think how loki ended up human size and not blue.

Even if thor is inborn with powers, odin could strip it off him. This is the same with the main universe when he wants thor to learn humility and turned him into a mortal, difference is in the comics he made him into Donald Blake [Easter egg in Thor 1]

The enchantment works differently for thor and other worthys.

For Thor it just gave his powers back when he became worthy again, Its his trial to regain what was his. Just a one time thing

For others it will give you whatever thor has. Not sure how long you'd retain the power[Strength, durabilty, control over weather] once you let go of mjolnir.

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#38 Posted by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

@titing2101: Well, some things are very different in the MCU. So you think the buff only occurs when holding the hammer?

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#39 Posted by Heatforce (6878 posts) - - Show Bio

For me it just retcons the narrative of ragnarok, which itself retconed the worthiness clause. If Mjolnir contained Thor's powers then when Hela destroyed it, his powers should have been released to him but Odin said Thor always had his powers and that the hammer was just a conduit to help him.

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#40 Posted by Rebake (4727 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: EG didn't contradict Ragnarok. Thor always had his powers, but just never used them to the fullest. Then he got depowered. Then the worthiness spell was placed on Mjolnir so Thor can also regain his power. The spell was never removed. The series continued and Thor continued to use Mjolnir to focus his power. Ragnarok happened, Thor unlocked his power, and didn't need his hammer. Fast-forward to EG, Cap picks up the hammer and the spell to give the user Thor's power is at work.

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#41 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16707 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82 said:

Man, I don't know why so many people have trouble or are confused grasping this, this is very easy to understand, even the explanation is literally written in the hammer.

Anyone who wields Mjolnir gets the powers of Thor, strength, durability, lightning summoning......as simple as that, so of course Captain America was buffed.

I think that some people here are not familiar with the comics and it really is confusing if they dont know how odins magic and the enchantment works.

Odin is very powerful, just think how loki ended up human size and not blue.

Even if thor is inborn with powers, odin could strip it off him. This is the same with the main universe when he wants thor to learn humility and turned him into a mortal, difference is in the comics he made him into Donald Blake [Easter egg in Thor 1]

The enchantment works differently for thor and other worthys.

For Thor it just gave his powers back when he became worthy again, Its his trial to regain what was his. Just a one time thing

For others it will give you whatever thor has. Not sure how long you'd retain the power[Strength, durabilty, control over weather] once you let go of mjolnir.

Pretty much

For me it just retcons the narrative of ragnarok, which itself retconed the worthiness clause. If Mjolnir contained Thor's powers then when Hela destroyed it, his powers should have been released to him but Odin said Thor always had his powers and that the hammer was just a conduit to help him.

No, it doesn't retcon anything.

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#42 Posted by titing2101 (1322 posts) - - Show Bio

For me it just retcons the narrative of ragnarok, which itself retconed the worthiness clause. If Mjolnir contained Thor's powers then when Hela destroyed it, his powers should have been released to him but Odin said Thor always had his powers and that the hammer was just a conduit to help him.

No it doesn't

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#43 Posted by HereForOneShot (174 posts) - - Show Bio

We look at writer's intention to know what's "fact" in a fictional story.

From that angle, it is pretty clear that Captain America gained Thor's regular superpowers when he becomes worthy to wield Mjolnir. Durability, strength, lightning-related powers, etc.

Is it logical? Now that's another topic to discuss.

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#44 Posted by Heatforce (6878 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82: @titing2101: @rebake:

How does it not retcon Ragnarok? So you mean to tell me Thor always had twice his amount of power but became even more powerful after Mjolnir was crushed? Plus depending on how you view Hela, she was either worthy enough to hold Mjolnir in the air or she did it through pure strength. I believe it was the latter but if the former then the worthiness clause is very open to interpretation. Thor is the god of Thunder, the hammer should only be a conduit for his power per MCU explanation unless this is like a Shazam family situation.

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#45 Edited by Thor_Parker82 (16707 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce said:

@thor_parker82: @titing2101: @rebake:

How does it not retcon Ragnarok? So you mean to tell me Thor always had twice his amount of power but became even more powerful after Mjolnir was crushed? Plus depending on how you view Hela, she was either worthy enough to hold Mjolnir in the air or she did it through pure strength. I believe it was the latter but if the former then the worthiness clause is very open to interpretation. Thor is the god of Thunder, the hammer should only be a conduit for his power per MCU explanation unless this is like a Shazam family situation.

Man, you simply are not understand, it's not like these movies are Interstellar or Inception.

@titing2101 said:

For Thor it just gave his powers back when he became worthy again, Its his trial to regain what was his. Just a one time thing

For others it will give you whatever thor has. Not sure how long you'd retain the power[Strength, durabilty, control over weather] once you let go of mjolnir.

This.

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#46 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5928 posts) - - Show Bio

People over complicate the shit out of everything. He has the power of Thor. The movies stated it clear as day. Simple as that

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#47 Edited by Heatforce (6878 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82 said:
@heatforce said:

@thor_parker82: @titing2101: @rebake:

How does it not retcon Ragnarok? So you mean to tell me Thor always had twice his amount of power but became even more powerful after Mjolnir was crushed? Plus depending on how you view Hela, she was either worthy enough to hold Mjolnir in the air or she did it through pure strength. I believe it was the latter but if the former then the worthiness clause is very open to interpretation. Thor is the god of Thunder, the hammer should only be a conduit for his power per MCU explanation unless this is like a Shazam family situation.

Man, you simply are not understand, it's not like these movies are Interstellar or Inception.

@titing2101 said:

For Thor it just gave his powers back when he became worthy again, Its his trial to regain what was his. Just a one time thing

For others it will give you whatever thor has. Not sure how long you'd retain the power[Strength, durabilty, control over weather] once you let go of mjolnir.

That is what I don't get. Shouldn't Thor have lost his power once Steve became worthy or is it because Mjolnir was time displaced that he did not? That I could maybe understand as a loophole but this whole 'Thor's powers are internal and also fully accessible from Mjolnir' does not make sense given Ragnarok. Unless of course the user of Mjolnir is borrowing power from Thor himself hence my Shazam reference.

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#48 Posted by Conner_Wolf (6380 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: The reason it makes sense is because Thor's power during Endgame is internal, all of his power is drawing from himself. Mjolnir was just a tool, a powerful weapon when he picked it back up again, but it still contained a massive amount of power that he had used before, and thus when Cap picked it up, he tapped into that power, the power of Thor, a power Thor had learned to utilize without the hammer.

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#49 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16707 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82 said:
@heatforce said:

@thor_parker82: @titing2101: @rebake:

How does it not retcon Ragnarok? So you mean to tell me Thor always had twice his amount of power but became even more powerful after Mjolnir was crushed? Plus depending on how you view Hela, she was either worthy enough to hold Mjolnir in the air or she did it through pure strength. I believe it was the latter but if the former then the worthiness clause is very open to interpretation. Thor is the god of Thunder, the hammer should only be a conduit for his power per MCU explanation unless this is like a Shazam family situation.

Man, you simply are not understand, it's not like these movies are Interstellar or Inception.

@titing2101 said:

For Thor it just gave his powers back when he became worthy again, Its his trial to regain what was his. Just a one time thing

For others it will give you whatever thor has. Not sure how long you'd retain the power[Strength, durabilty, control over weather] once you let go of mjolnir.

That is what I don't get. Shouldn't Thor have lost his power once Steve became worthy or is it because Mjolnir was time displaced that he did not? That I could maybe understand as a loophole but this whole 'Thor's powers are internal and also fully accessible from Mjolnir' does not make sense given Ragnarok. Unless of course the user of Mjolnir is borrowing power from Thor himself hence my Shazam reference.

Thor's powers are his own, he doesn't need Mjolnir for that, however, when Odin placed the enchantment, he made it so that whoever lifts Mjolnir gets the powers of Thor, Mjolnir grants anyone who wields it the powers of Thor, but for Thor himself it is only a tool, he doesn't gain any power from the hammer because it is already his.

Other people can use Thor's hammer and he doesn't lose a single bit of strength/power, Mjolnir itself contains the powerset of Thor because Odin made it so, but Thor has it already in himself.

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#50 Edited by titing2101 (1322 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82 said:
@heatforce said:
@thor_parker82 said:
@heatforce said:

@thor_parker82: @titing2101: @rebake:

How does it not retcon Ragnarok? So you mean to tell me Thor always had twice his amount of power but became even more powerful after Mjolnir was crushed? Plus depending on how you view Hela, she was either worthy enough to hold Mjolnir in the air or she did it through pure strength. I believe it was the latter but if the former then the worthiness clause is very open to interpretation. Thor is the god of Thunder, the hammer should only be a conduit for his power per MCU explanation unless this is like a Shazam family situation.

Man, you simply are not understand, it's not like these movies are Interstellar or Inception.

@titing2101 said:

For Thor it just gave his powers back when he became worthy again, Its his trial to regain what was his. Just a one time thing

For others it will give you whatever thor has. Not sure how long you'd retain the power[Strength, durabilty, control over weather] once you let go of mjolnir.

That is what I don't get. Shouldn't Thor have lost his power once Steve became worthy or is it because Mjolnir was time displaced that he did not? That I could maybe understand as a loophole but this whole 'Thor's powers are internal and also fully accessible from Mjolnir' does not make sense given Ragnarok. Unless of course the user of Mjolnir is borrowing power from Thor himself hence my Shazam reference.

Thor's powers are his own, he doesn't need Mjolnir for that, however, when Odin placed the enchantment, he made it so that whoever lifts Mjolnir gets the powers of Thor, Mjolnir grants anyone who wields it the powers of Thor, but for Thor himself it is only a tool, he doesn't gain any power from the hammer because it is already his.

Other people can use Thor's hammer and he doesn't lose a single bit of strength/power, Mjolnir itself contains the powerset of Thor because Odin made it so, but Thor has it already in himself.

This.

@heatforce:

Thor = Thor with super strength + super durabilty + lightning powers

Thor + mjolnir = Thor with super strength + super durabilty + lightning powers

Thor with stormbreaker and mjolnir = Thor with super strength + super durabilty + lightning powers

Cap + mjolnir = super strength + super durabilty + lightning powers [Thor wont lose power]

Reason why? Odin's magic. Odin's enchantment.

Odin is powerful enough to seal powers even if its inborn, he can cast a magic to give powers to others if he wills it.

Read 616 comics[Main timeline to understand it fully]

Just dont read thor from 2014 onwards or it'll confuse you even more