Dynamic Tiering System (linear format) Draft

This here, is a Linear Format of the Dynamic Tiering System. Sequel to this thread.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-new-abstract-tier-system-dynamic-tiering-2049097/

Tier 0/0: Boundlessness

True, Absolute, Archetypal Boundlessness

Omnipotent Supreme Beings, Absolute Archetypes that form the basis for all "thinkable" Concepts of Metaphysics, Pataphysics and Cosmology, regardless of size, quality or quantity or variation.

All Archetypes that are indifferent to Linear Power come from IT.

Some Boundless Entities may not be described as Omnipotent, but so more as "Unconcious" Boundlessness. Omnipotents are usually the Conscious Expression of a Boundless

In DC Comics, the Source is a "Boundless" but is Unconcious, while Omnipotence is a CONCEPTUAL EXPRESSION of the Boundless.

Examples

• The One Above All (Marvel Comics, Pre-Retcon)
• The Brahman Presence (DC Comics, JMD Cosmology)
• The Akashic Records, Swirl of the Root (Type-Moon/Nasuverse)
• The Creator (Umineko/When They Cry)
• The Ultimate Dao (Ergenverse/Several Xian-Xia Novels)
• The One Giver (The World of Darkness)

Tier S: Nigh-Omnipotence

A Minus is a Tier A that can only be measured in the little, otherwise irrelevant restrictions placed on them, in relation to Tier 0/0

Just as with a Tier A, the Tier S can never be measured in any manner or level of "adding levels" or "additional infinities", omegas, cardinals, or any axiom.

Entities are Divinely Inspired by God, or otherwise an unknown if they are truly beings of Free Will at all.

As such, we rate entities as:

Tier 0/1: Nighest Omnipotence

Tier 0/2: Second

Tier 0/3: and so on.

Reverse tiering can go on infinitely. And characters whose relation to the 0/0 is a whole unknown unknown are rated as "Tier 0/???".

Examples

• Oversoul Spectre (DC, JMD Cosmology)
• True Pralaya (DC Comics, JMD Cosmology)
• Bai Xaochun (ErGenverse)
• Li Qiye (Emperor's Domination)

Tier A: Indeterminate

An Indeterminant Power is an entity that wields, embodies, or is allied to "phenomenon" that is completely conceptually transcendent to not only all levels of Linear Power, but all Lineages of Linear Power. Including Metaphysical ones.

They cannot be measured by Any Cosmology Tiering or "Attack" Potency.

All qualities of Space-Time, and Conceptual Dimensions, even Conceptual Time, mean nothing to entities like these.

Usually, these include characters that perceive any quality and quantity of Value or "Infinity" as shadows. Or entities who are Completely Transdual to Reality/Fiction dichotomy or whom are the Fundamental Archetypes of "Perfect" Platonic Archetypal Concepts that fundamentalize all forms of Metaphysics.

Some characters may not have a True Attack Potency at all.

Such characters are not "Nigh-Omnipotent" at least not necessarily, but these entities are way too unscalable by any level or lineage of Cosmology or Linear Power Hierarchy that one may only measure them by how distant they are from Omnipotence, how much "minor" limitations they are away from it. Or their relationship... to the Boundless.

One example of an Indeterminant who is truly Nigh-Omnipotent is Boundless Void Spectre.

Such characters also actively derive their power from a Boundless, Supreme "Archetype". Justifying their power. As such, we may not use "Dimensional Tiering" or any type of "Linear Outerverse Tiering".

Such characters are not "Outerversal" as that is useless in the system.

Examples

• Arceuid Brunestud (Type-Moon/Nasuverse)
• Anu (The Elder Scrolls)
• Padomay (The Elder Scrolls)
• Meng Hao (Er Gen Verse)
• Death of the Endless (DC, Sandman Cosmology)
• Mother Night (DC, Sandman Cosmology)
• EOS Battler Ushiromiya (Umineko/When they Cry)
• The Elohim (World of Darkness)

Tier B: High Hierarchal / High Laddered

High Hierarchals are entities that transcend Infinitely Layered Powers. Or an Infinity of Infinity Levels, each Infinity greater than the previous Infinity. Or any level of Linear Power, regardless of Omega, or any Axiom.

Such a Tier should not be compared to High-Hyperversal in VSBattles. As we interpret Dimensions differently.

In addition, Boundless Hierarchals can still be stomped or defeated by Limited Hierarchals if their Cosmology is that of an inferior quality, or lacking of Metaphysical Containment within the Cosmologies they transcend.

A perfect example is how Living Tribunal (despite being Infinite-D) would still be vulnerable to the Hadou Gods from Dies Irae.

Examples

• Featherine Augustus Aurora (When They Cry/Umineko)
• Beatrice Ushiromiya (When They Cry/Umineko)
• Khorne (Warhammer 40,000)
• Akuto Sai (Demon King Daimao)
• The Leviathan / Collective Unconcious (DC Comics)
• The Crimson King (The Dark Tower)
• Pre-Retcon Beyonder (Marvel Comics)
• The Multiversal Abstracts (Marvel Comics)
• God Emperor Doom (Marvel Comics)

Tier C: Middle Hierarchal / Mid Laddered

Middle Hierarchs are Entities that transcend a Baseline Multiverse or the FIRST Order of Infinity (both Temporally AND Spatially), by certain degrees of planes, power levels or some other conception at least an infinity or a conception above.

However, are lesser Cosmologically to the Unending Hierarchs of Tier B.

5-Dimensional, 6-Dimensional, etc. they are "Infinite" but Finite in the Hierarchy Power Levels. Limited levels of Infinities.

Such entities are on the low spectrums of Linear Power. But some may however pierce through levels of Metaphysics that may overpower some Tier Bs.

Examples

• YHVH & Demi-Fiend (Shin Megami Tensei)
• CCC Gilgamesh & BB (Type-Moon/Nasuverse)
• SCP-3812 (SCP Foundation)
• Othinus & Magic Gods (To-Aru/Magical Index)
• Mr. Mxyzptlk & 5th Dimensional Imps (DC Comics)
• Judges of the Source (DC Comics) note: Possibly Tier S
• Alien-X & Celestialsapiens (Ben 10)
• Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (TTGL)
• God Spawn (Image Comics)
• Lord English & Pickle Inspector (MS Paint Adventures Wiki)

Tier D: Bottom or Low Laddered

Entities who wield a degree of power near or unquantifiable levels after (but not infinite) than the first degree of Infinity.

This includes 3-D to 4-D Universals, Infinite 3-D Universals/Infinite Multiversals or True Baseline Multiversal.

Tier D, might become more complex than appears, as some Multiversals, while are able to destroy Infinite Universes of each Infinite Size, cannot conceptually erase the histories/4-D back-times of said Multiverse.

While some Universe levels wield superior Conceptual Time attacks than some Baseline Multiversals.

As such, classifications at this level are analyzed at a case to case basis.

Examples

• Star Butterfly (Star vs the Forces of Evil)
• Zeno (Dragonball Super)
• Bill Cypher (Gravity Falls)
• Infinity Gauntlet (Marvel Comics)
• Jiren (Dragonball Super)
• Altair (Re: Creators)
• Rob w/ Universal Remote (The Amazing World of Gumball)
• Monika (Doki Doki Literature Club)
• Haruhi Suzumiya (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya)
• COIE Anti-Monitor (DC Comics)
• Hakaishin Demonbane (Demonbane)
• Reimu Hakurei (Touhou)

Discuss things on Recent DC Cosmology related only.

To sum up the Tiers. Simplified.

• Tier I/O: Boundless, Absolute, Supreme, Omnipotent

• Tier S: False Omnipotent / Essence of Archetypes

• Tier A: Indeterminant, too off the scales conceptually to be scaled by "Cosmology Power" of any quality or size.

• Tier B: Infinite Dimensional of some sort. Regardless of Quality.

• Tier C: Limited Dimensional Multiversals.

• Tier D: Universals to Baseline Multiversals (3-D to 4-D+)

• Tier E: Below Universe Level-

Notes:

- On Tiers B to D.

Tiers B to D have many multi-variants in power levels of metaphysics though.

A great example is how Marvel Abstracts are generally far superior to Multiversals from Visual Novels but their powers and abilities are metaphysically "shallow" and are not too irrational. Despite the "size" advantage.

As such, this page is merely a linear presentation of my Tiering System and is a simplified expression of it.

Above presentations for the characters... MAY or might be inaccurate. But the point stands.

My Tiering System might even require a THREE DIMENSIONAL graphical chart to even begin ideating how complex it is. Rather than just a 2-Dimensional View beyond viewing that metaphysics in fiction is all about Linear Power.

About Characters who "Grow in Dimensions" endlessly

Take note that characters that can "grow in Dimensional Levels forever" do not qualify for a Tier B rating. But are simply an unquantifiable level of Tier C that is always growing in finite levels. As such, entities like SCP-3812 remain Tier C.

REVISIONS since Oct. 25 2019

• Oct. 26 2019:

Did several edits and added more characters.

Removed Death of the Endless from Tier A because although I think she fits there, an ally of mine disagrees and I cannot allow myself to fall to authoritarianism on anything.

I don't think Death ranks that high.

She cannot be erased by Lucifer, and claims entities who are several High-hierarchies degrees conceptually superior to her home Dimension. And is Non-Dual to the reality/fiction dichotomy to be "Power Tiered".

@etriel: The concept she is cannot be erased but Death herself can be erased similar to Morpheus. While she can potentially claim the life of beings like Lucifer an Michael but she can only do it after their death. She cannot pull the same death touch like on Morpheus to beings above her paygrade. She is the dichotomy of Life and Death. Only Dream is Reality and Fiction.

@etriel: Since you placed Othinus on Tier C, are the True Magic Gods in tier B then? As Othinus is a fricking bug compared to them.

My tiering system is more complex than what it appears. The one you see on this forum is merely a "Linear" perception of it.

Othinus and the True Magic Gods are Cosmologically Tier C, since they are not Infinite Dimensional. And no, True Magic Gods being an infinity above Othinus is not enough for them to be a Tier B/Infinitely Laddered.

However. My ideal tiering system is FAR more complex than what it appears.

Othinus and the True Magic Gods can still affect beings from Tier B depending on how Cosmologically Weak the Strength of the Higher Infinite Dimensions are.

Othinus can/might still be able to KILL Beyonder, because Beyonder's Infinite-D are purely physical dimensions, and he is very vulnerable to Conceptual Hax Manipulation from Tier Cs of this day.

Death of the Endless's memories and personality reached all the way back, when Michael and Lucifer created the First Multiverse/predated the First Ultimate Afterlife. She embodies the very concept in its absolute form, and is the one most unbound by laws of Shekinah/Glory (an aspect of the Presence).

I agree that Death cannot death-touch the brothers, (that is absurd) but neither side can use "power" to erase or kill each other. Nor each other's consciousness. It's one of the ways why I perceive her to be Indeterminant.

I compare Lucifer and Death to an Executive and Legislative or Judiciary branch of Government for DC's Cosmic Hierarchy. One is Purely Absolute Executive Power, the other is Constitutionally Law Permanent.

She is the dichotomy of Life and Death. Only Dream is Reality and Fiction.

I didn't say she is Reality/Fiction, I said she exists outside of the Reality/Fiction duality. For her to be "Power Tiered".

@etriel:

Othinus and the True Magic Gods are Cosmologically Tier C, since they are not Infinite Dimensional. And no, True Magic Gods being an infinity above Othinus is not enough for them to be a Tier B/Infinitely Laddered.

The true magic gods are beyond dimensions tho. Othinus has complete control over every single phases and dimensions of the to aru verse, yet she can't affect into the realm of the true magic gods, which is the hidden world.

True Magic Gods are on the top of their verse. Beyond all coordinates of dimensions within their verse below them. That does not make them Tier B, nor even Indeterminant. They are beyond Physical Coordinates, that is it.

In addition, Magic Gods can pierce through far deeper than surface level reality warping, far greater than several Tier Bs from Marvel, but that is all I can give them credit for. They are food to Nil Monitors in DC.

Otherwise, I would have rated Living Tribunal and Beyonder as Tier A (Lucifer/Battler level) a long time ago for transcending Eternity who is dimensions, and that is... all levels of wrong.

You cannot use Outerversalism to this tiering system, as the Dynamic Tiering System is to Outerversalism what Modern Science is to Superstition. It has no meaning in this domain.

@etriel:

>True Magic Gods are on the top of their verse. Beyond all coordinates of dimensions within their verse below them

The true magic gods aren't even close at being the top dogs of the vere lol, but they are among the high tiers.

>They are beyond Physical Coordinates, and that is all I can give them credit for

Well, these dudes are higher than heaven which is a metaphysical plane of existence beyond the physical human realm and their dimensions...

@assultstriker: U were fucking silent for 2 weeks and came back to insult my tates and comment shit here lmao. Why don't you return making stomp threads than being a fucking retard?

@coolguy18: wtf are you talking about? just when did i insult you? me and etriel are having a conversation here and you interrupted out of nowhere, throwing baseless accusation to me.

@assultstriker:

>wtf are you talking about? just when did i insult you?

At the rate the anime song above you thread lol.

>me and etriel are having a conversation here and you interrupted out of nowhere, throwing baseless accusation to me.

I just pointed out that u are inactive in the vine and usually makes stomp matches, but somehow you come back to insult me lmao. I am just joking here, i'm not mad, but you are obviously a troll.

@etriel Was a good read! I agree!

@etriel: Er Gen's Ultimate Dao (I assume you mean Boundless Dao?) isn't really omnipotent, as characters can reach that level and still be far weaker than others. That's 4th step, that's much weaker than 5th step, which is weaker than 6th, which is weaker than 7th, etc. 7th is the max confirmed.

The "Supreme Being" of the verse hasn't really been shown, and I somewhat doubt it'll ever be.

Idk, I think I am referring to something else. There was a Dao that @johnsmjs36 described was the greatest Dao.

Similar to the actual Dao in Taoism that is like "Tier 0" omni-meta-conceptual whatever, it is an Omnipotent Concept as far as I heard?

@etriel: There are Daos for different things. The most powerful ones shown yet should be either Bai's Dao of Light/Life, or Meng's Seal the Heavens Dao.

If you mean, the Dao, then maybe. Characters mention "reaching the Dao", but that always seem more like the personal Daos they create/follow, more of a "path" than it just being the source of everything. It's possible that there's some supreme Dao that created everything, but as of now it hasn't been shown.

If there is one, characters like Meng are still far below it, at least.

I like this much better than the outversal tiering, which in my opinion is outdated and has no respect for conventional tiering.

Yeah, THAT Dao. That's what I meant. THAT Dao, the Divide by Zero "Omnipotent" concept, that's like the Brahman, Nirvana, Ain Sof or Monad. That begat all concepts. Exactly. The Archetypal Template used for modern day fictional Omnipotent characters.

If this is not resolved properly among ya'll @thisisausername, @johnsmjs36, @thekillerklok, @worldofruin6 I will remove it from the list of "Omnipotents".

@etriel: question: why is Alien-X & Celestialsapiens on the same tier as Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann,Mr. Mxyzptlk and SCP-3812?

another question: what tier would you put Current Rimuru Tempest and why

@etriel

I second what Jucaslucasa says. Er Gen teases us about "the Dao", but for now the Dao hasn't been shown. The closest would be the description of (the) "Essence", the basis of all concepts yada yada, but I doubt it's "omnipotent". Powercreep is still a thing in Xianxias, and a higher step would have "higher" everything, essences, Dao Essence, etc. Tho maybe not Essence itself, honestly that part is still vague. And even Essence, the source of everything etc, seems to fall under Dao, with that "Dao of Essence" statement in ISSTH.

Meng Hao may have been stated by the narrative itself to be nigh-omnipotent, but nigh is there for a reason.

In theory, the Dao (or Ultimate Dao, whatever you prefer) should exist, especially with the path of cultivation being infinite and all, but as far as I know it hasn't been shown. So while said "Ultimate Dao" would prob be in that tier...

Unless you don't mind working with that knowing all this, I guess there's no problems.....?

To simplify this for people who don't understand... This tiering system values hax over raw power/being higher-dimensional. For instance, Living Tribunal is infinite-D, but he can only reality warp multiverses that are based on physics and mathematics. So lower-dimensional entities like BB can stomp him, because they reality warp realms beyond physics and mathematics, and can manipulate and destroy the very concepts/ideas that form reality. Living Tribunal's reality warping has never reached nearly this deep, and has no defense against such complex reality warping/hax; so he gets stomped, regardless of him being stronger.

@etriel Stick to text. Those pictures are terrible. You explained it better in text. But overall, I agree with your ideas. Hax/higher metaphysics>raw power is something I've always thought. Glad it's becoming more popular in multiversal debates to where I can more comfortably argue for it.

Also, you accidentally put this thread in the battle board.

Because that Tier has many levels in it. The idea is that you are at least Infinity level above Baseline Multiversal Space-Time, but not necessarily Infinite Dimensional.

5-D, 10-D, 11,D, etc. that's why they are there. And Celestialsapiens warped the conceptual animation of physics which included all the timelines (should include it) so I have to scale them as such within that level.

another question: what tier would you put Current Rimuru Tempest

Some level of Tier D. He is below Baseline Multiversal from what I know, and my system would rate him as such.

There should most likely be a Dao that transcends the Concept of even Ladder Hierarchy and Linear Power, like any Omnipotent within an Infinite-D verse.

So it's an issue if you don't know if Dao is just another Linear level or if it is truly Boundless, or if Ergen is properly following the concept.

Thanks for the input, I will consider it. I'll wait for others' inputs.

@etriel: Also, Li Qiye is from Emperor's Domination, not Damnation.

@etriel

Yea, there's a Dao for everything and there should likely be such a Dao you're talking about, or "the" Dao. Me and @jucaslucasa just are basically telling you that even if such a Dao probably exists, it still didn't make a real appearance yet in the verse.

And about Dao being "boundless", if there's one thing we know about Dao it's that.

@senior_nepuko: NEP is trash, m8.

@zgtfreak:

never actually played the games

@senior_nepuko:

@zgtfreak:

My derailing skills are evolving.

@etriel: Where do you think crowley places here man?

Also, nice thread by the way. Way more better than VS battle's wiki tiering system.

OT: Your lack of I/O characters here is pretty disturbing.

@etriel: In most or all xianxia novels, there is always the true, top dog Dao, that is above everything else. Completely omnipotent, they could have different names is some novels (Ex. Eternal Dao, the Dao, etc). In Emperor's Domination, Li Qiye created his own Dao that was on par with the Heavenly Dao, where every Dao originates from and where Daos base their rules on. It was not restricted by the rules of the Heavenly Dao. It was used as a foundation for the new verse's concepts when Li Qiye destroyed everything. It is stated when Li Qiye is finally able to combine the idea of EVERY Dao into this one Dao of his, he can finally be at the level of True Immortals, the currently known highest level in the verse. In xianxia novels, cultivators study the dao, and they create their own path based on their comprehension and what suits them.

Diffinately good thread ill be sure to refer this in future debates if need be I'm still fairly new to the debating seen especially when talking about multiversal being but I'm trying my best to absorb an process information thanks for the thread

@etriel: Dao is described as Omnipotent and Omnipresent in Martial World. No cultivators in any setting have any control or reach the same level as Dao though. Otherwise they could just strip away their enemy's cultivation. They can only reach the highest level in their cultivation method of setting but never reach or transcend Dao.

"The Heavenly Dao was omnipotent and omnipresent. When a martial artist cultivated the Laws, they would comprehend the Heavenly Dao and follow its rules to display their skills. Cultivation methods, martial skills, every Concept, everything was through methods defined by the Heavenly Dao.

From the very start, Lin Ming never understood just what the Heavenly Dao was. He only knew that it was an extremely abstract existence. But at the same time, the Heavenly Dao seemed to have a thought and will of its own, punishing anyone that dared to violate its edicts.

And now, Lin Ming was finally aware. The Heavenly Dao – that was the soul of the universe!

And this so-called spirit source was present at the forming of the universe, a source energy that eventually became the Heavenly Dao.

The soul of the universe. Out of the three aspects of essence, energy, and divine, it could be called the ‘divine’.

As the universe had a soul, at the same time it also had a body!

Every star, every moon, every planet, all the vast galaxies and boundless worlds, everything was the body of the universe!

Even humans, plants, vicious beasts, all lives that existed were also a part of the universe’s body."

@etriel: For Dao, you should probably list each verse individually. Different settings will treat it in different ways, so one Xianxia can treat it as a lot stronger than another, and they don't necessarily have to follow the irl religious interpretation (Like, say, how the DC Abrahamic God is a supreme being, while Marvel's is just a skyfather, afaik).

Even similar stuff can end up a lot differently. Like the Heavenly Dao John posted above, ISSTH has something similar, with it being omniscient and omnipresent across the Vast Expanse, but it's not omnipotent, since Meng Hao's Dao is more powerful:

Then there are Daos more powerful than Meng's, etc.

This. the Dao which is the one that BEGETS ALL THINGS is omnipotent, truly boundless.

@jucaslucasa: @johnsmjs36: We could discuss more about xianxia in the Xianxia Discussion Thread, or we can start a conversation and discuss xianxia there to avoid derailing in some threads.

@jucaslucasa: Actually, one could argue that the strength varies because of cultivation. Ultimately, the Dao all depends upon the comprehension of One True Heavenly Dao. I mean Meng Hao's Dao is not above The One True Dao because of which cultivation is possible. He is just on a path to understand "The Way"

@thisisausername: To be fair In Emperor's Domination, Dao Heart is the Path to reach Ultimate Dao. Li Qiye created the Laws to Govern the Dao but its the Heart that can defy the laws and reach the Dao. Li Qiye is literallly unbeatable even after becoming a mortal because like Lucifer once said about The Presence," He can changes the rules of the game before you know it." Or something like that.

“Why wouldn’t there be?” He said: “Why do mortals cultivate Buddhism? For Buddhist laws or to become Buddha? These laws are omnipotent, allowing one to gain great abilities. As for becoming a Buddha, it allows you to be untouchable by myriad laws with an eternal Buddhist heart. Which do you think is stronger? The laws or the heart?”

True. But, the perseverance to infuse the idea and laws of ALL DAOS into one, creating something on par or almost on par with the true, top boundless Dao.

@thisisausername: It was not par with Boundless Dao but rather Old Villainous Heaven's Dao. Tye world was governed by his laws that's why he was practically omnipotent and unchallenged.

It was never stated what OVH's Dao was. The Heavenly Dao is something different, it's already stated that it is the Dao which all Daos come from, and all Daos base their rules from the Heavenly Dao. It is said that something on par or close to on par with the Heavenly Dao is WHAT allows cultivators to fight OVH, or other True Immortal beings.

@thisisausername: So, both were different. I thought because OVD is the current Heaven its his Dao. Regardless, Laws may be omnipotent but they are less than Eternal Dao Heart.

Perhaps by EOS, Li QIye would become omnipotent himself, with the strongest dao heart and dao.

Eh your chart needs some graph paper like lines or something, but I find this tiering system to be interesting.

@senior_nepuko: @jucaslucasa: @johnsmjs36: @thekillerklok: @thisisausername:

So it's decided then? The Supreme Dao stays in Tier 0/0(Omnipotent).

Also another question. I placed Li Qiye as TIER A.

As in Lucifer/Battler/Padomay level, OMNIPOTENT-BACKED/Platonic Concept/Perfect Infinity/Ignores Dao Tiering because I thought he already wielded the Supreme Omnipotent Dao.

Is that wrong? Or should he go to Tier B as Cosmology-Scalable?

Also, if you wish to discuss Xian-Xia stuff here, I totally wouldn't mind.

Crowley is a Tier C with a degree of Mid-Concept Manip. There is a chance he might become Tier A, if To-Aru has competently showed Platonic Concept power.

@etriel: Li Qiye wields his own Dao, something on par with the Supreme Heavenly Dao. It's literally unrestricted by it. I say he can stay.

@etriel: Li Qiye is probably at Meng Hao level or a bit higher. It is tricky in where he should be placed. Everybody uses the Supreme Dao, it depends upon the level of comprehension. In a way you could say that Li Qiye is not using a Supreme Dao but the verse itself is being powered by Li qiye's dao. He hasn't reached True Immortal. So, he is like Elaine Belloc at the end of Lucifer.