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#1 Edited by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Little gift for Comic Vine, from a old member such as me. To debunk the BIGGEST HOAX ON NET. The actual power level of Dragon Ball. Well let's see. This is just part 1. I'll post part 2 soon. I already did this on Vs Battles Wiki so I'm just gonna copy/paste my posts.

I'm making this thread in order to show people how overrated Dragon Ball is, and why other manga verse can beat them. This over-hyping comes from Dragon Ball forums. And just for the record let's see what they though about Dragon Ball verse power 5 years ago when there were fans who actually read/were reading all of the manga. For starters let's look at the limit of Namek Saga Vegeta's power:

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According to this Dragon Ball hypes, Saiyan Saga Vegeta can destroy a planet, he was going to destroy the Earth hadn't Goku stopped him attack with a Kamehameha and tried to resort to many unofficial fan made guidebooks and non-canon anime when they couldn't find any prove. Well, sadly, they are all hyperbole statements and spectacles. Namek Saga Vegeta fired a more powerful Ki blasts at Recoome and only managed to destroy several islands, both Krillin and Gohan who were more powerful than Saiyan Saga Vegeta at this time were afraid of dying from this several islands level explosions, and were impressed by it.

"B-But Piccolo way back in Saiyan Saga destroy a moon so did Master Roshi way back in og Dragon Ball, you are just mad that Dragon Ball characters are strong, and resort to downplaying them with low ball feats!" Wrong! Apparently, none of the Dragon Ball fans who says these knows a thing about outliers. Let me show you why all moon busting feats in Dragon Ball are an outlier:

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Master Roshi got killed by an Old King Piccolo, the same Kind Piccolo who in his prime, can only muster enough strength at his full power to destroy a city. By King Piccolo's own admission, using full power would shorten his life force. What made you think a villain who got tired out after firing a city level explosion, can muster enough life force to blow up a moon? Ever since Master Roshi blow up the moon, for the next 150 chapters onwards, the only other time we see a max power KHH was when mount frypan was destroyed and that was a city/mountain level feat, that's the best feat in the series for like 150 chapters, amongst a bunch of building to city level feats. Just no, this feat is the definition of an outlier.

"How is the moon level feat an outlier, when King Piccolo is fast enough to dodge the Max Kamehameha and kill Master Roshi either way after Master Roshi gets tired out?" Um, he can't. The Max Kamehameha could reach the Moon in seconds. There is no way Old King Piccolo is side-stepping that. The fact that Kid Goku after his fight against King Piccolo was training to move faster than lightning bolt or in this case lighting which we never saw creating another hyperbole statement the possibility of how fast Kid Goku can be further backs it up.

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The fact remains that Krillin was afraid of drying from a multi-island level explosion from Namek Saga Vegeta is easily self-explanatory on why Piccolo destroying the moon back in Namek Saga is an outlier. Now let's talks about other misconceptions.

"Frieza Saga Frieza is Dwarf Star level because he destroyed Planet Vegeta in his First Form." All hyperbole statements and spectacular, I tell you. The scene of him destroying Planet Vegeta is a filler scene in the anime, we don't even know how he destroy Planet Vegeta in the manga. Even if he did it would be an outlier, because of this.

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Frieza is only a core buster in his Final Form, because not only he failed to one-shot Planet Namek, and only managed to destroy the Planet Namek core. Fun fact is, Planet Namek didn't even blow up until 15 minutes later, lol!~ If Frieza was truly planet level, why has he only proved to be a core buster???

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Oh boy, let's not even get started on the part where Super Perfect Cell mentioned that he can destroy the Solar System. You want me to seriously think this is accurate? That he suddenly went from being able to destroy a planet to being able to destroy a Solar System from a small Zenkai boost???

"But what about the guidebooks, the video game, magazine, author statement, daizenshuu, handbook, etc. that showed Super Perfect Cell being Solar System level you ignorant downplayer?" Quality >>>> Quantity every time. We only follow the manga, not any nonsense contradictory sources that contradictions one and other. Super Perfect Cell is not Solar System level, because not only he never destroyed a Solar System, because he can't.

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Both Goku and Vegeta were afraid of Kid Buu's attack which not only destroyed the Earth, but created a Large Star+ level explosion. Note to self, both Goku and Vegeta at this time where alot more powerful than Super Perfect Cell who self-proclaimed admitted he can "destroy" the Solar System, and yet you are telling me that neither Goku nor Vegeta can deflect a Large Star+ level explosion even though they are both "Solar System" level?

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If the same attack even turn Kid Buu to mush, how the hell is he even supposed to survive a Solar System level attack?

"But Goku was confident that he can beat Kid Buu in a fight in his Super Saiyan 3 form, which is why he never fused with Vegeta! He should be way above Large Star+ level!" Yeah he was just overconfident as we all know, I mean, this guy was literally scared out from seeing Kid Buu's attack, which tell he can not beat Kid Buu in a fight.

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There are some misconception in Dragon Ball where some people thinks that base Goku can physically destroy the a planet since Buu Sage base is above Namek Saga Frieza without Ki blast, correct? If that's the case, why did he struggle to life 40 tons in his base form, and had to go Super Saiyan?

"Lifting strength doesn't equivalent to striking strength!" Maybe, but weight class exist in anime and real life for a reason, you can't expect me to believe a guy who struggles to life 40 tons to hit harder than a guy who can lift double his weight, right? Ask any guy who can lift a 1000 tons to jab their fingers as a guy who can barely lift 40 tons, and it will cause a hemorrhage in their skull.

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Even Beerus admitted that base Goku after the Buu Saga can't beat Namek Saga Frieza. Therefore not only base Goku can't destroy a planet by striking the ground since he will only break his fist from the doing so, but at the same time, he can't blow up a planet with Ki blast either.

"Why are you using the a scene from the movie? Didn't you said about sticking to the manga source only?" For Dragon Ball Super, Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods and Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F are the two primary canon source for the first two arc of Dragon Ball Super, so this is more reliable than the two Sagas from the manga where they may have contradicting events.

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Seeing how Beerus was introduced as the most powerful Dragon Ball character ever when Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods was introduced, and at full power, he was stated to be able to destroy a Galaxy. No one was able to destroy Galaxy before in their life, not even Dragon Ball GT characters can destroy a Galaxy. So how strong would current Goku be? If Ultra Instinct Goku is on par with Beerus, we can admit, that he is current Galaxy level right now.

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Before some say didn't Omega Shenron stated he can destroy the universe? Well over time, that is, if he could really destroy the universe, then that would be a contradiction on the Beerus part. If Beerus is the first Dragon Ball character to be introduced as Galaxy buster, we can all assume that both Omega Shenron and Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta at their best are Multi-Solar System+ level. Yes, I'm using the anime source for Dragon Ball GT, because it's the primary canon source for Dragon Ball GT.

Now let's talk about speed, we all are under the false assumption that Dragon Ball characters were light speed before Dragon Ball Super correct? Wrong again.

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Dyspo was the first Dragon Ball character to reach light speed, and Goku was struggling to land a blow on Dyspo before he went Super Saiyan Blue. Therefore no one is stupid enough to believe any Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, or Dragon Ball GT characters are light speed. I used the Dragon Ball Super anime, because Dyspo speed in the anime doesn't contradict the manga, and it's the only information we have regarding to his speed.

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"Didn't Goku cross the Snake Way which is like one kilometers long in two days before King Kai's training? Therefore he should be much faster than sound, therefore light speed with just a mere Super Saiyan multiplier boost?"

First off I'll point out that he said the word legend. Meaning he doesn't know, so that isn't evidence. Secondly an object travelling at hypersonic speeds is still supersonic. Supersonic means faster than the speed of sound. It's a legend. Exaggeration and legends are pretty interchangeable. Therefore, it's completely speculation to believe how long is the Snake Way or how long it took for Goku to leave Snake Way.

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Mr. Satan an ordinary non-Z Fighter was literally watching Super Saiyan 3 Goku fight against Kid Buu! More anti-feats that Dragon Ball characters weaker than Dyspo aren't light speed. I mean you don't see Batman keeping up with Superman whenever he flies, right? Now I don't even have to explain why Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell, Majin Buu aren't light speed either.

"Piccolo stated that his Special Beam Canon is light speed and Raditz clearly dodged his attack, how much evidence do you need?" Other than the fact that Dragon Ball Z anime is non-canon, Piccolo never said that in the manga, even Frieza's fastest Ki blast was compared to be the speed of flash, so we all know the anime is talking bs.

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Let's talk about weakness, while Dragon Ball characters are physically strong against blunt injuries, but they are weak to piercing weapons, current base Goku got hurt by bullet. Note, I couldn't find the manga scan anywhere, so I decided to use the anime scan instead, so don't mind me.

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Even a kid, he still isn't bullet proof either. So any scene of Dragon Ball character tanking bullet are either plot induced stupidity or a major outlier, the same reason of how Goku power poling himself to the moon is an outlier, since we go more evidence they are not bullet.

Also if Goku was bullet proof, why did he need to catch the bullet or dodge them, if he could simply tank those rounds like Superman?

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Frieza even got killed by a sword which further proofs that while he can physical tanks a blunt injuries from a Ki blast that is capable of destroying a core of a planet, he is incapable of tanking any piercing attack weapons. Don't believe me yet? Well here you go.

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More evidence that they are weak to piercing weapon, Super Saiyan Blue Goku getting hurt by Sorbet's laser even though he has a Multi-Solar System level+ durability. That's right I said Multi-Solar System level+, since he has yet to surpass Beerus who is a Galaxy buster himself.

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People always assume that both Beerus and Goku are universe level all because their punches were threatening to destroy the universe, but they all failed to admit, they couldn't one-shot the universe and can only do it over time which isn't universe level at all. By the way, this scene never appeared in the movie, it's only both anime and manga exclusive, so it's easily predicament outlier scene in overall.

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Now to finally end the Dragon Ball hype for good, can any Dragon Ball character destroy the universe? Well both Zeno and Super Shenron could, one at a time that is, they never showcase the ability to destroy or restore a multiverse at the same time.

>So in conclusion, Buu Saga base Goku is weaker than Namek Saga Frieza.

>Dragon Ball characters are weak to piercing weapons.

>Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT characters aren't light speed.

>Dragon Ball Z characters up Namek Saga aren't planet busters.

>Dragon Ball Z characters are incapable of destroy Solar System.

>No one other than Zeno or Super Shenron can destroy the Universe.

Have a good day.

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#3 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4533 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao.

Oh man.

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#4 Posted by Supermanthor (18992 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by infamous5445 (428 posts) - - Show Bio

So how about those Oscars huh?

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#6 Posted by MainJP (5928 posts) - - Show Bio

Facts. Nothing but facts.

LET'S. GO.

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#7 Posted by DeathHero61 (18776 posts) - - Show Bio

Please reorganize this, its very unpleasing to the eye.

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#8 Posted by Wolfrazer (16196 posts) - - Show Bio

So organization aside, it's said right there why Frieza didn't destroy Namek by Goku and Freiza.

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#9 Edited by DeathHero61 (18776 posts) - - Show Bio

I kind of want to address this, there is so much wrong with this, but I'm having a hard time reading this. Can you reorganize it?

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#10 Posted by MainJP (5928 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, the Krillin and Gohan that fought the Ginyu Force weren’t stronger than Saiyan arc Vegeta, they were stated just a few panels prior to be just over 10,000.

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#11 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8034 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I'm fairly certain this is just a parody of the Saint Seiya debunk thread, puposely listing a bunch of nonsense that proves nothing, just in order to troll.

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#12 Posted by Toratorn (7217 posts) - - Show Bio

Dragon Ball fans on suicide watch.

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#13 Posted by Galactic_1000 (5656 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Gaoron (8867 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Edited by Helloman (29886 posts) - - Show Bio

These are good.

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#16 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17501 posts) - - Show Bio

@godsvileanddarkwing:

I can see where you are coming with a lot of these, but there are some definite problems here.

Let's start with the Vegeta feat. You can't just go by the size of the explosion, as even up until current dragon ball these god like characters make small explosions with their attacks. They have control over their AOE, mostly for plot purposes as they can't have the planet blowing up every time. Nappa's casual feat of wiping away a country with multi cities destroyed confirmed, proves that isn't the limit of Vegeta's DC. However I agree him being planet level at that point is not a fact, though him being small planet level is definitely possible. I do think his galic gun would have ruined Earth beyond repair if it landed.

Next up the moon feats. I actually agree they are outliers, however the fact they happened and the fact first form Frieza blew up planet Vegeta, should at least put saiyan saga mid-high tiers at moon level anyways.

King Piccolo is city+ level, Piccolo jr. and Goku during the 23rd budokai were island+ level, BoZ Goku and Piccolo were country-moon level, Nappa was casual country-continent level, Vegeta was planet surface-Earth sized planet level, first form Frieza is planet level, final form Frieza is planet+, super perfect Cell is star/solar system level, Buu is solar system+, fused Zamasu is implied galaxy level in the manga, Beerus is galaxy-universe level, Zeno is multiverse level

I agree speedwise the moon feats are outliers, since that type of speed isn't even seen again in the manga until the Cell and Buu arcs. It was mostly PIS as Toriyama isn't just going to draw panels of them waiting around for the ki blast to reach the moon. At best the feat was legit, but their ki blasts need long distances or to go into space to reach those speeds so it doesn't translate to battle speed.

I agree Frieza is not dwarf star level, but with the new Broly movie out, his first form being planet level in canon is an undeniable fact, though I would say it already was beforehand. Frieza only destroyed Namek's core because he held back, as stated right on panel. Frieza is, and has always been, planet level.

Cell's solar system feat just depends if you want to go with author intent or feats. I originally questioned it, but with the universal shockwaves in super, and fused Zamasu saying he would destroy the galaxy in the manga, I think it's fare to give Cell the solar system statement, but you could argue that just puts him at star level, as destroying a start essentially destroys the solar system. I would not put super perfect Cell below star level imo.

Kid Buu only destroying Earth doesn't really prove anything, but I do see where you are coming from.

Beerus being at least galaxy level doesn't really prove anything and it matches with fused Zamasu at his peak being galaxy level.

Saying snake way isn't 1 million km is lowballing imo.

Piccolo's special beam canon being light speed actually wasn't even an anime statement it was a funi dub statement, so even worse actually. So yeah, I agree it can't be used at all for obvious reasons.

Normal humans couldn't even keep track of kid Goku, so using any example of people tracking Goku after that time is just PIS and shouldn't be considered just to try and lowball.

Dragon ball characters aren't necessarily weak not piercing attacks, it's just that if their ki defense is down or if someone has a stronger ki, they can cut right through their body.

Frieza can't be cut by a normal sword, he was cut because Trunks was using the sword. This is proven when Trunks stops the sword with his bare hand when King Cold tried to use it on him. It was flat out stated it wasn't the sword, but the person, and the fact King Cold thought the sword was special should be proof a normal sword can't cut through Frieza in most circumstances. Goku being hurt by bullests and lasers was explained. He drops his guard, and gets hurt because his ki defense is down. His power level is usually 5 when not fighting.

Lastly I agree Zeno and Super Shenron are the only confirmed universe busters, but by author statements the gods of destruction may be as well.

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#17 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17501 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by DeathHero61 (18776 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I'm fairly certain this is just a parody of the Saint Seiya debunk thread, puposely listing a bunch of nonsense that proves nothing, just in order to troll.

Oh damn. Well, genuine nice guy Alex took the bait.

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#19 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3262 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I'm fairly certain this is just a parody of the Saint Seiya debunk thread, puposely listing a bunch of nonsense that proves nothing, just in order to troll.

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#20 Edited by Cramem (120 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by GodsVileandDarkwing (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.