Does the blatant overpush of the MCU need to chill?

Was gonna make this a blog but I'm not sure how well that would do. It's late, and I just kinda want to slightly vent.

So, I was inspired to make this thread after the Defenders comic team was revealed on here. Thread made it seem exciting. Clicked it. Was gonna make this a blog but I'm not sure how well that would do. It's late, and I just kinda want to slightly vent.

Oh. It's the Netflix team. Go figure. Forget adding any cool character to the mix up, like Spider-Gwen when you can just push for the series.

On top of the fact that we see costume changes and forced events that are done because Marvel has a movie coming out relevant to whatever event they start to push in the comics. Age Of Ultron, Civil War 2. All that fun stuff. We also get new comics once a character's movie drops. I.E. the new Guardians comic. Which is like... the team's what, 90th relaunch? For the love of God. All joke's aside:

It doesn't only just play a part in changing the comics. It now affects stuff like the shows, the games, and the merchandise. Now, lately I've been seeing more X-Men merchandise so that's nice. No sign of the Fantastic Four in sight, which is unfortunate but y'know. But we are getting X-Men merch and it seems like in the games, FINALLY the X-Men ban has been lifted. That, and since Inhumans failed in terms of comic sales, they even got rid of the idea of deleting all X-Men and only having Inhumans. Why? Cause X-Men sell.

Sadly, we are still left without any X-Men cartoon. Spider-Man is getting a relaunched animation and guess what? It's his homemade suit from the movies that's being used on the show. Imagine that.

Now, to make matters even worse: Marvel Vs Capcom is coming out. Guess what the game is HEAVILY focused on? The MCU. With the only outside add-on being Nova, it's getting beyond ridiculous. No Wolverine. No Deadpool. No Doom. No nothing outside of Disney's Marvel.

Now while I get that the MCU may be insanely popular, I have yet to see proof forcing these changes do any actual notable differences to the success of the MCU and the products that have to force itself to see relevant to the MCU.

Is it time Marvel separates their MCU from their comics and merchandise 24/7? Is it long overdue? Does it annoy you as much as it annoys me?

It doesn't help Marvel vs Capcom was one of my favorite childhood games, and this is the first time I'm seriously let down by one of the games. It also doesn't help Spider-Gwen was a teased inclusion in The Defenders since the Heroes For Hire comic that came out recently.

MCU has made all these characters mainstream now. They are household names now and they are what casual fans know best. Marvel is a business and they need to go with what will reach the most people. So no, I does not need to chill. The more money Marvel has the better movies, games, and comics they can put out. If you had a car company I wouldn't tell you to stop selling your most popular vehicle

So you're mad because a billion dollar corporation is focused on marketing it's most valuable product: The MCU? OK Then.

^^^ I mean DUH. LOL.

@acer515:

they only care to the extent that the magazines promote and/or tie in to their movies.

Well yeah.

I'm ashamed to think any of you call yourself comic book fans, when Disney, for all the good they've done at the box office, has turned their comic book division into a laughing stock.

He asked should they stop, not if the comic stories were good. No they shouldn't stop their marketing plan is working.

It is what it is, either eat shit and try to like it or move to another table.

I moved.

Hold up.

I want proof the merchandise and comics and shows BASED off the MCU are selling and are of quality.

Yes, the MCU works. That doesn't mean the things basing itself off the MCU are.

Is that why Marvel Vs Capcom I has a terrible reaction? We'll see the sales on that.

Is that why they can't keep a comic running past issue 20? [Exaggeration]

Is that why Marvel is lucky to have a comic's sales hit in the top 5's each month?

Is that why there shows have low ratings?

Is that why there hasn't been any note worthy Marvel games in a bit?

No, their stupid only MCU push isn't working nor is their solidifed proof it's good for their business. If it was, their X-Men ban wouldn't be suddenly lifted.

I love the MCU. I love Marvel. That doesn't mean Marvel needs to push all their comics and merch around the MCU.

@acer515 Course. They weren't much fun.

@lukehero Yeah, I'm telling a company that isn't racking much money in on the thing that MADE the movies successful to begin with [the comics]. The'y're not of quality anymore. They're expensive. And most are being forced to do things to see fit relevance to the MCU. Tell me, what's the use if it's not even making any damn money. Do I really need to pull out top sales?

In April, top sales were Secret Empire, an event NOT relevant to the MCU and of actual quality, go figure. And the others being X-Men comics. In the TOP 10. It's like... the things not MCU focused are actually doing well?! What?!

Ratings on the shows are low and DC is dominating in the animation market as per usual.

Again, show me that solid proof making everything MCU based is better. The MCU movies are successful and catch on because they're highly advertised and of top Disney quality, something I have no issue with. Everything else in Marvel is known as flopping.

Do you ever start to wonder why that is?

@demohardt:

Hold up.

I want proof the merchandise and comics and shows BASED off the MCU are selling and are of quality.

Quality is subjective. As far as sales go you can look that up yourself. I glanced off the last few months they are doing fine in the categories of dollar share. In fact they lead most few last months.

Yes, the MCU works. That doesn't mean the things basing itself off the MCU are.

Works how? Works as in someone is buying it? Or you don't like it? You do realize how complex & arbitrary marketing numbers are right? Like the only thing that matters is the end game? Why does Scarlet Johnahnson get paid more than Chris Evans when Captian America is clearly a more popular character? It's because some executive looked at whatever info they privately look at and decided it to be so. As far as any concrete numbers for merchandise go the last round of actual facts had Spider-Man in the lead by a lot, but he wasn't in the MCU and those numbers are old as heck anyway since they are from 2014. If you want proof you're not gonna get any real facts, much of this is opinion based(except the actual facts which I'll highlight).

Is that why Marvel Vs Capcom I has a terrible reaction? We'll see the sales on that.

Terrible reaction from who? The general gaming fanbase or the people on comicvine?

Is that why they can't keep a comic running past issue 20? [Exaggeration]

Well you already admit this is a an exaggeration so...Also once again I'm not defending quality, I'm asking why should they stop doing what they are doing when they are clearly making money?

Is that why Marvel is lucky to have a comic's sales hit in the top 5's each month?

What?

Is that why their shows have low ratings?

Low ratings there shows are doing fine for the amount of money they are spending. The Netflix shows are doing fantastic as far as I can tell, Luke Cage temporarily shut down Netflix's servers.

Is that why their hasn't been any note worthy Marvel games in a bit?

Is that really on the MCU? Wouldn't that be on the game makers they partner or license their product out to? It's not like Kevin Fiege and company make video games.

No, their stupid only MCU push isn't working nor is their solidifed proof it's good for their business. If it was, their X-Men ban wouldn't be suddenly lifted.

?? What? I can't even begin to understand what you are trying to say or ask here.

I love the MCU. I love Marvel. That doesn't mean Marvel needs to push all their comics and merch around the MCU.

Once again why wouldn't a business invest most of their time investing in their most valuable product. The MCU isn't just Disney's most valuable product it's the most valuable movie franchise period. That's a fact you can read for yourself. The MCU is more valuable than Star Wars...

I only skimmed the OP but if I understand your rant correctly you're upset that the MCU is having too much of an impact on comics and games and stuff? If that's the case than I agree with you. Loved Earth's Mightiest Heroes and it got dumped for that crap ass Avengers Assemble. Ultimate Spider-Man was all right and now that's getting replaced too.

If that's not what you were talking about theeeeeeeennnnnnnn.........carry on.

@demohardt:

Yeah, I'm telling a company that isn't racking much money in on the thing that MADE the movies successful to begin with [the comics]. The'y're not of quality anymore. They're expensive. And most are being forced to do things to see fit relevance to the MCU. Tell me, what's the use if it's not even making any damn money. Do I really need to pull out top sales?

Comics are a niche product anyway, comics don't make that much money anyway? You do understand that right? As a business they should always try to please the casual fan over the comicbook fan. If that means watering things down and dumbing things down as a business they are gonna do what they gotta do.

In April, top sales were Secret Empire, an event NOT relevant to the MCU and of actual quality, go figure. And the others being X-Men comics. In the TOP 10. It's like... the things not MCU focused are actually doing well?! What?!

Captain America and Hydra aren't in the MCU?

Ratings on the shows are low and DC is dominating in the animation market as per usual.

Low for what market? Animation: OK, that doesn't take away from anything I've said.

Again, show me that solid proof making everything MCU based is better. The MCU movies are successful and catch on because they're highly advertised and of top Disney quality, something I have no issue with. Everything else in Marvel is known as flopping.

Proof of what? Since neither of us works for the MCU I'm not going to be able to show you solid proof of anything besides public info you could easily google yourself.

Do you ever start to wonder why that is?

Marvel is flopping? Sure OK. The last real numbers of merchandise showed that Marvel is doing fine.

A lot of lost cartoons get replaced for random reasons I mean Young Justice suddenly got dumped because they thought too many girls were watching. So one show getting dumped for the other wasn't necessarily caused by the MCU/Disney thing. It's usually having to do with marketing and money or some other BS.

@acer515:

@lukehero:

Yeah but the comic books would be a lot better as marketing tools if they were actually a worthwhile product, instead of an aspect of Disney's business that they barely care about.

Yeah.

That's why Marvel was keeping a certain minimum of quality, because when they were independent they had a much larger stake in the quality, this is one reason why Monopolies should be illegal, because they create oligarchies in which only a few corporations control everything and then care very little for their quality once they have cornered the market and are the only ones allowed, or able to do business in a particular area.

Yes.

Take Comic Vine for instance, since it was bought by Gamespot, which is in turn owned by CBS, the site has been totally neglected. Why? Because CBS does not need Comicvine for its value as a property, only to eliminate one of the few websites which used to offer valid criticisms on the medium.

Yeah.

And no, I'm not afraid to talk about it, because me saying it has no affect on their bottom line, not directly anyway.

Yes. I find you to be very reasonable.

They didn't sell enough toys. We got our season 3 though.

EMH getting dumped for Assemble is exactly because of the success of The Avengers. Have you watched any of Assemble? I watched the first maybe 6 or 7 episodes and they ripped jokes and lines directly from the movie.

@Pokeysteve: Yes I know, but it was kind of stupid in my mind the idea they couldn't simply get girls to buy toys.

"And on that note, he goes on to state that Warner Bros. didn't want girls to watch these shows. These superhero shows were supposed to market to young boys, so that Cartoon Network could sell products to these boys; girls didn't buy these toys. Dini commented that:"

Dini: That’s the thing, you know I hate being Mr. Sour Grapes here, but I’ll just lay it on the line: that’s the thing that got us cancelled on Tower Prep, honest-to-God was, it’s like, ‘we need boys, but we need girls right there, right one step behind the boys’—this is the network talking—’one step behind the boys, not as smart as the boys, not as interesting as boys, but right there.’ And then we began writing stories that got into the two girls’ back stories, and they were really interesting. And suddenly we had families and girls watching, and girls really became a big part of our audience...like they picked up that Harry Potter type of serialized way, which is what The Batman in boarding school [?] is really gonna kill. But, the Cartoon Network was saying, ‘Fuck no, we want the boys’ action, it’s boys’ action, this goofy boy humor we’ve gotta get that in there. And we can’t—’ and I’d say, but look at the numbers, we’ve got parents watching, with the families, and then when you break it down—’Yeah, but the—so many—we’ve got too many girls. We need more boys.’

EMH getting dumped for Assemble is exactly because of the success of The Avengers. Have you watched any of Assemble? I watched the first maybe 6 or 7 episodes and they ripped jokes and lines directly from the movie.

No I refuse to watch crap. I watched 10 mins and knew it was crap. I'll take your word for it then.

So, wait. If you know something works to make money in the comics though, you wouldn't push for it? Like, oh. I don't know. The X-Men? Spiderman [they just recently got back technically speaking], F4 would even sell nowadays.

2. This isn't the Cap of the MCU. This isn't the Hydra. And this is changing the entire Marvel ball-game. Something we haven't seen before. Not rewrites of old events.

3. I'm not looking up anymore than what I've already did. I've already asked you for proof to show this stuff is working. Not just based off word.

The running gag has been all that Marvel has is movies. And there's a reason for that joke.

Hahaha your analysis of the show based off of that ten minutes is legit!

Dini seems pissed off along with the rest of us. You could tell they were pushing Superboy and he's just not that interesting. I was way more into what was going on with Martian and Nightwing/Robin.

@demohardt:

So, wait. If you know something works to make money in the comics though, you wouldn't push for it? Like, oh. I don't know. The X-Men? Spiderman [they just recently got back technically speaking], F4 would even sell nowadays.

I'm still not sure what point you were trying to make. If you could explain it a bit more that would help. Anyhow it's common knowledge Marvel screwed over the X-Men and Fantastic Four in recent years because Marvel Executive Ike Perlmutter was obsessed with getting back the X-Men & FF. Once his MCU role was downgraded and Kevin Fiege was upgraded I don't think overall that's the case, but they still are sticking to their plan on some level. My point is this is something that's being done on purpose, not because the executives at Marvel are stupid.

2. This isn't the Cap of the MCU. This isn't the Hydra. And this is changing the entire Marvel ball-game. Something we haven't seen before. Not rewrites of old events.

Well as Acer pointed out Marvel does things for shock value and one of their top guys has already publicly admitted this. I think we both agree that they are making crap comics, but you seem to naively think they are doing this by accident. I'm telling you they are doing it on purpose because it's effective at making them money and no they aren't going to stop anytime soon and I wouldn't try to get them to stop. If you and I don't like it we can just leave the party.

3. I'm not looking up anymore than what I've already did. I've already asked you for proof to show this stuff is working. Not just based off word.

Once again proof of what specifically? Because you can't prove most of your claims, but you keep telling us to prove you wrong. Seems pretty silly on your part TBH.

The running gag has been all that Marvel has is movies. And there's a reason for that joke.

So you're ignoring of the fact that marvel is making money off of other merchandise? You realize Sony and Fox don't get those merchandise dollars unless it pertains directly to movie tie ins like Movie Quick Silver's commercials right?

@acer515: I agree with most or probably all of what you just said.

Heheh, kinda happy this happen. Always laughed at the mainstream comic nerds while reading my Darkhorse, Image, IDW, and Dynamite comics. Now DC and Marvel comics are screwing there own loyal fans and shit is really getting messy.

Love it. All the up noise "cool comic" kids crying. Step to the dark side the , read something other than (gasp) Marvel or DC. You may just like it.

@demohardt:

I dont know... maybe Marvel is just avoiding legal complications for characters that are co-owned with other companies, like (canon) Spiderman, X-men, Deadpool, Fantastic Four, or whatever thats why they are focusing on their MCU incarnations presently since its is their most safe legal owned Marvel Franchises.

@lukehero: Oh, no. I'm fully aware most of their dumb decisions aren't accidental. First part was definitely sarcasm.

I know it's not accidental they were sleeping on the money makers in hopes to get them back. Like the X-Men. Now, F4? I don't know if that'll ever draw in. If it does, it's only because people miss them now.

2. How are the comics working? For the past four months, the top selling comic have been people NOT focused hardcore on in the MCU. Whether it be US Avengers, which didn't have many Avengers at all. And you can argue there was so much shipment of that comic because of the state variants because I see NO ONE taking that off the shelves if it's even on the shelves anymore. [Even I bought my own state variant.] Or it's X-Men comics as of lately.

3. I can prove the comic sales. I can prove the tv-ratings. It comes down to as you said "Google it".

4. I'd hate to justify DC here, but I gotta. They don't make money off merch because they don't have good merch. At all. Even their action figure line is only just now getting a bit better. And that's a bit with no variety, really. Last figure I bought was Damian Wayne for my TT collection. Marvel is killing it with statues, minifigures, legends, plush, all the merch. DC is just slacking with expensive merch that the younger audience can't afford and the older audience doesn't think has the quality for.

We should also still talk about how it's Spider-Man being the number one merchandise pusher again. Though, I'd honestly be curious how much merchandise Deadpool is pushing out too. And how the affect of Teen Titans Go has lasted for DC. Either way, that still leaves the video game market and comic book market hanging dry. Same with the television.

I just think it's long overdue we see change in comics, television, and the games. Bring in the X-Men. Bring in the F4. Change the team ups in the comics. Stop the constant restart and events to match the movies.

From what I understand on the merch side and games Marvel and DC it's self has little to do with it. It comes down more to Licensing and who the license the rights to make the toys, statues, ect, and what rights those companies want to purchase. The big ones i.e. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman ect are easier to license and make the both companies the most money that is why there are always merchandise from the main characters. With the growth of popularity of the MCU the demand for their license has increased significantly so it would be no surprise that they (Marvel) would sell more rights to those characters. However I am sure that has changed some now that the mouse is behind them with their merchandising machine. With the FF from what I understand Marvel has been upset with the way Fox has depicted that franchise and have wanted the license back for some time, and that is why there isn't a FF push in comics, and are not releasing more licenses for those characters.

But again I could be completely wrong. I am just a guy sitting in front of a computer screen.

"Blatant overpush" kind of begs the question, don't it? Your mind's obviously made up, so why ask for argument?

MCU sadly IS Marvel now.

Well, the main reason Marvel is so popular now is the MCU. Only about 10% of their revenue is actually from their comics. Which is bad for a comic company. So how can they get people to buy their comics/ watch their shows/ play their games? Throw something that looks like it's from their most popular creation on it. Like how everything Star Wars has Darth Vader apart of it. When something's so popular, a company's going to have to use it.

And their lack of Fantastic Four and X-Men recently is partly justified as well. They aren't in the MCU. If they become popular through comics or shows or games, and then a movie about them comes out, Marvel Studios isn't going to get that money. To Disney, using them in comic events and video games is no different from PlayStation advertising an XBox exclusive. Just advertising someone else's product.