Does Flash have the hardest punch?(how tough is he?)

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Bezza

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#1  Edited By Bezza

I know he isn't the strongest but by the laws of physics does the man with the fastest punch hit the hardest, even harder than a brute like Hulk?

Also, does anyone know how durable he is supposed to be. I mean his bones must be fairly hard if he can punch someone like superman. It wouldn't matter if I could punch at 150,000 MPH, I'd still break my fist if I hit someone as hard as superman! However, the Flash seems to go down fairly easily if he is tagged, so I'm confused!

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Bruxae

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He can hit on high levels but he doesnt hit harder then someone like Hulk or Superman despite what some people will say.

I dont really know about durability but I was always under the impression that he is supposed to have human durability except for when using speed in some manner the speed force will protect him from taking damage from it, and he can always enhance his body to heal faster.

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Jorgevy

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#3  Edited By Jorgevy

yeah he is the hardest hitter

mass x acceleration = force

he's got the most speed of them all so yeah, he can even do the IMP (infinite mass punch)

if you know physics, when something reaches lightspeed it's supposed to acquired almost infinite mass (I'm not a physicist, I haven't had physics in over 4 years, since my Freshman year, so correct me if I'm missing something)
so, he hits with a force equal to almost infinite mass times light speed, which as you can assume, it must hurt like hell. if hell could totally destroy you with a punch

He doesn't hurt his bones or his fist because the Speed Force absorbs the impact from the use of his own speed - so if he gets hit by Superman, he doesn't get that hurt because the SF absorbs a bit, but if he gets "hurt" by punching a wall and getting the backlash (every action as an equal reaction or something) the SF absorbs almost all the impact/energy

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AngryHulks

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@jorgevy said:

yeah he is the hardest hitter

mass x acceleration = force

he's got the most speed of them all so yeah, he can even do the IMP (infinite mass punch)

if you know physics, when something reaches lightspeed it's supposed to acquired almost infinite mass (I'm not a physicist, I haven't had physics in over 4 years, since my Freshman year, so correct me if I'm missing something)

so, he hits with a force equal to almost infinite mass times light speed, which as you can assume, it must hurt like hell. if hell could totally destroy you with a punch

He doesn't hurt his bones or his fist because the Speed Force absorbs the impact from the use of his own speed - so if he gets hit by Superman, he doesn't get that hurt because the SF absorbs a bit, but if he gets "hurt" by punching a wall and getting the backlash (every action as an equal reaction or something) the SF absorbs almost all the impact/energy

By feats, however, Superman apparently punched with the same magnitude as Flash.

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Jorgevy

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@angryhulks: well he's super fast too...... and I bet he has some more mass even if that doesn't matter that much since it's not that huge of a difference

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starrk_coyote

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@jorgevy said:

yeah he is the hardest hitter

mass x acceleration = force

he's got the most speed of them all so yeah, he can even do the IMP (infinite mass punch)

if you know physics, when something reaches lightspeed it's supposed to acquired almost infinite mass (I'm not a physicist, I haven't had physics in over 4 years, since my Freshman year, so correct me if I'm missing something)

so, he hits with a force equal to almost infinite mass times light speed, which as you can assume, it must hurt like hell. if hell could totally destroy you with a punch

He doesn't hurt his bones or his fist because the Speed Force absorbs the impact from the use of his own speed - so if he gets hit by Superman, he doesn't get that hurt because the SF absorbs a bit, but if he gets "hurt" by punching a wall and getting the backlash (every action as an equal reaction or something) the SF absorbs almost all the impact/energy

O M G!! it is Science Hour at COMIC VINE! I L O V E T H I S!!

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Jorgevy

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O M G!! it is Science Hour at COMIC VINE! I L O V E T H I S!!

every hour is science hour in ComicVine

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starrk_coyote

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@jorgevy said:

@starrk_coyote said:

O M G!! it is Science Hour at COMIC VINE! I L O V E T H I S!!

every hour is science hour in ComicVine

i guess you have a point brother! :D

love you dude/sis :)

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Jorgevy

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@starrk_coyote: you call me brother then you say dude/sis? I think dude first and then bro/sis would be better....

BTW I'm a dude

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starrk_coyote

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@jorgevy said:

@starrk_coyote:

you call me brother then you say dude/sis? I think dude first and then bro/sis would be better....

BTW I'm a dude

No Caption Provided

you are awesome! man i like you!

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LimpoyzLoan

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#13  Edited By LimpoyzLoan

When you see Hulk or Superman punching with the force of a white dwarf star, then I'll admit they can punch harder than Flash.

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Bezza

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@jorgevy said:

yeah he is the hardest hitter

mass x acceleration = force

he's got the most speed of them all so yeah, he can even do the IMP (infinite mass punch)

if you know physics, when something reaches lightspeed it's supposed to acquired almost infinite mass (I'm not a physicist, I haven't had physics in over 4 years, since my Freshman year, so correct me if I'm missing something)

so, he hits with a force equal to almost infinite mass times light speed, which as you can assume, it must hurt like hell. if hell could totally destroy you with a punch

He doesn't hurt his bones or his fist because the Speed Force absorbs the impact from the use of his own speed - so if he gets hit by Superman, he doesn't get that hurt because the SF absorbs a bit, but if he gets "hurt" by punching a wall and getting the backlash (every action as an equal reaction or something) the SF absorbs almost all the impact/energy

Thanks! This was just the reply I was looking for. I love this comic forum as it mixes fiction and science and you get to learn stuff (I never went to many Physics lessons and left school 26 years ago!)

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deaditegonzo

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In real world terms, with the laws of physics in tact, anyone who could accelerate to lightspeed can hit equally hard, and hit with infinite mass. So, Supes, Flash, Silver Surfer > Hulk, Thor or any non-lightspeed moving entity.

But that doesnt really answer the question, does it? Who hits the hardest in a comic book? Wonder Woman has claimed Zoom hits harder than Supes, but that is totally stupid as Zoom ISNT EVEN SUPER FAST, he is moving through time. His punches should equal that of a normal person. IMO, Superman hits the hardest in DC, and his feats back that point, in both the New 52 and the pre-52. In Marvel, id say Hulk is the hardest hitter based on feats.

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Bezza

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In real world terms, with the laws of physics in tact, anyone who could accelerate to lightspeed can hit equally hard, and hit with infinite mass. So, Supes, Flash, Silver Surfer > Hulk, Thor or any non-lightspeed moving entity.

But that doesnt really answer the question, does it? Who hits the hardest in a comic book? Wonder Woman has claimed Zoom hits harder than Supes, but that is totally stupid as Zoom ISNT EVEN SUPER FAST, he is moving through time. His punches should equal that of a normal person. IMO, Superman hits the hardest in DC, and his feats back that point, in both the New 52 and the pre-52. In Marvel, id say Hulk is the hardest hitter based on feats.

But are they? Hulk doesn't accelerate to light speed, nothing close to it. Supes and the others can fly at lightspeed, but only Flash demonstrates this sort of speed on the ground, i.e running, carrying, lifting, dodging, multiple punching etc.

Anyway changing tact, I was thinking that a bullet if thrown by hand doesn't really hurt too much if it hits you, but fired at 1350 MPH out a gun, pretty much mashes up your face. Can't imagine what one of Flash's mega punches would do to a normal person!! What made Bruce Lee so devastating? He was strong yes, but he wasn't a big guy...it was his speed. They had to slow the camera down to catch him in action....

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GraniteSoldier

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Based purely on science Flash should be the hardest hitter. Durability wise, as far as I know, he really isn't much tougher than your average person. However it always seems that the faster he's moving the bigger the hit he can take, or maybe it's all writer interpretation. Flash epitomizes the "glass cannon" concept to me.

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deaditegonzo

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@bezza said:

@deaditegonzo said:

In real world terms, with the laws of physics in tact, anyone who could accelerate to lightspeed can hit equally hard, and hit with infinite mass. So, Supes, Flash, Silver Surfer > Hulk, Thor or any non-lightspeed moving entity.

But that doesnt really answer the question, does it? Who hits the hardest in a comic book? Wonder Woman has claimed Zoom hits harder than Supes, but that is totally stupid as Zoom ISNT EVEN SUPER FAST, he is moving through time. His punches should equal that of a normal person. IMO, Superman hits the hardest in DC, and his feats back that point, in both the New 52 and the pre-52. In Marvel, id say Hulk is the hardest hitter based on feats.

But are they? Hulk doesn't accelerate to light speed, nothing close to it. Supes and the others can fly at lightspeed, but only Flash demonstrates this sort of speed on the ground, i.e running, carrying, lifting, dodging, multiple punching etc.

Anyway changing tact, I was thinking that a bullet if thrown by hand doesn't really hurt too much if it hits you, but fired at 1350 MPH out a gun, pretty much mashes up your face. Can't imagine what one of Flash's mega punches would do to a normal person!! What made Bruce Lee so devastating? He was strong yes, but he wasn't a big guy...it was his speed. They had to slow the camera down to catch him in action....

Supes was actually shown to run close to lightspeed as well, but thats neither here nor there. Lightspeed is lightspeed. Infinite Mass is infinite mass. In terms of actual physics, Superman's IMP and Flash's IMP would be exactly the same (and would destroy whatever galaxy they happened in).

In the actual comics, Supes is shown to punch a lot harder, Flash has no examples that are close. In the New 52, Superman's punches sent shockwaves to the core of the Earth and through the atmosphere into space. Supes hits harder in comics.

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MakkyD

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Can you even apply science to comics anymore?

Plus I thought the Speed Force means Flash doesn't obey/uses a different set of physics?

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SC

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#21  Edited By SC  Moderator

To put the obvious out of the way, you know fictional characters and fictional abilities being fictional and all not having to be consistent or make sense, although the attempts to make them so are relative in many ways and most of the time its meant to be fun and for a lot of writers and readers, but necessarily all, fun can entail just sounding possible than being possible.

As far as basic understanding as far as I know with what's believed in reality moving near and at speeds of light carries relative mass with it and energy to move that mass, or to put another way a lot of energy is required to move a something very fast and when something moves very fast its mass increases and all those things track exponentially meaning the faster the speed, the more mass, the more energy required. Some clever writer with a some understanding of physics one day even decided to implement this knowledge into Flash's power set by actually giving him the ominous sounding infinite mass punch. The problem with that and some of the prior posts is that many writers often consider infinity a number when its not, its a concept often linked or applied with numbers. If Flash reached a point where an infinite mass punch would be accurate, then not only would his footsteps long punched infinite holes through whatever medium he was using for friction (like Earth) not only would his fingers weigh more than the sums of entire galaxies, but he should probably implode taking everything we know along within him being an object of such mass in a human frame outstripping any black hole or anything we have ever known in density save for the whole big bang expansion which likewise including an incredible mass within an incredibly infinitesimal space.

Except this is comics man, and even in real life we speculate and study about special properties and matter that may move as fast as light or even faster, so its easy to cheat the above problems by saying that Flash and other characters that move that fast (and in a few instances characters like Superman, Thor, Gladiator, Silver Surfer and so on have moved or done things near or in excess of the speed of light) - by either rewriting what we know about physics, but in that case Flash's infinite mass punch wouldn't be an accurate term or description (even if his fist was the only thing carrying with it infinite mass, infinite mass is still infinite mass) but it could still allow for him to punch as hard as a writer may imagine, only explaining how the corresponding mass doesn't affect other things and why Flash can't do other stuff with the energy he is getting relative to however hard he punches might be hard, but lets be honest no writer would probably try. Or alternatively one can consider that the Speed Force grants very special properties that effectively harness an outrageous amount of power from some unknown location that is akin to a universe or dimension, so in a way infinite, and this energy not only helps Flash move extremely fast, it lets him do it without the restraint of carrying anywhere near infinite mass with him, granted the Speed Force could act as a barrier as well, shunting Flash out of any reality he may be in to some adjacent reality where the physical laws and rules and properties are different where he carries an unmeasurable always increasing amount of weight and or the Speed Force acts as a containment field that also grants Flash relative durability to allow for collisions and impacts with his body parts but greatly minimizing the normal consequences (absorption or displacement) of things with mass moving that fast being opposed by other forces.

If the Speed Force allows Flash to move at light speed without requiring him to have infinite energy to move infinite mass, then his punch force goes down dramatically and by dramatically I mean it doesn't end the universe, potentially depending on how the Speed Force exerts itself that could still mean he can destroy stars and planets potentially, since there is obviously a very very big gap between infinite mass and the mass of stars and planets. Also you'd have to consider a writers opinion on whether Flash can hit that much harder than certain other characters you can tell they consider to hit harder but can't move as fast like maybe Darkseid as an example, but maybe he moves light speed too, I am not sure.

Ultimately its up to a writer and how they understand and consider the behavior of the Speed Force or insert any other deus ex machina idea here and its affect on what's considered the reality and rules and laws of that reality wherever Flash or other as fast or faster than light characters stories occur.

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I think it would be incredibly stupid for him to have the hardest punch. In my eyes it kind of takes away from the character because he is supposed to be a character that revolves around speed. I would much rather have him deliver a thousand punches than deliver one big punch.

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#25  Edited By Russcovito

@jorgevy said:

mass x acceleration = force

if you know physics, when something reaches lightspeed it's supposed to acquired almost infinite mass (I'm not a physicist, I haven't had physics in over 4 years, since my Freshman year, so correct me if I'm missing something)

I'm not a physicist either so "correct me if I'm missing something" but I'm sure about one thing. The Speed of Light is only reachable by photons, meaning ? Meaning that only something (or someone, we're still in comics right ?) with no mass at all can reach the Speed of Light. That's why the Millennium Falcon can't do the badass Speed of Light travel thing. Back to the subject. And I can't explain the scan above :/

Mass x Acceleration = Force

That's true indeed. But what changes the force is the acceleration and the acceleration only. The mass doesn't change, like ever. Wherever you might be on the moon or on earth your mass is the same. What change is the weight. Cuz' the weight = mass x gravitation and that's why my dear fellows, was Armstrong (Neil not Louis) able to .. you get it.

So by what I just said. Flash can't reach Speed of Light. Now Supes doesn't answer to anything I've just said either so we have no way to know if he would punch harder than him, I mean physically. Second thing : does his fist breaks ? Now again his legs should break by running so fast but I don't know where, I think I read something about his costume. Hell yeah his fist should break.

So does he have the hardest punch ? Yes because he is the goddam Flash !

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Bezza

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Power = mass x velocity, so if Flash and Superman weigh almost the same and, but the Flash punches with more velocity I think its fair to say he punches with more power.

However Flash doesn't have the hardest most unbreakable body like superman, so Superman can perhaps inflict more damage?

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Jorgevy

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@bezza: @russcovito:
the thing is guys, Flash as the Speed Force which basically betrays a lot of rules about our universe's physics, while Superman is just really really powerful. although he has been showed to be so powerful to actually bend some rules of physics himself.... still I'd bet Flash is the hardest puncher but in DC they don't seem to specify which one is the biggest hitter

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#28  Edited By lightsout

Based solely on speed of fist & fist/arm mass? Yea, theoretically he should have the hardest punch, but based on striking feats all the various super-strength characters have to be expelling some energy other than that created by the motion of their fist.

I didn't read anything other than the OP so I don't know if this was mentioned - but I learned in another thread here, that IMP is "fake", in that when approaching light-speed you don't actually increase in mass. Your relative/observed mass (from an outside source) increases (just like how visually fast an object appears to be is relative to your perspective). So when calculating the force of a running punch, we only use Flash's actual mass (an even with light-speed, the force produced would be nowhere near that of a "dwarf star").

Regarding durability, my guess is that the Speed Force protects him more - the more force he's creating by running (ie: particles in the air would be hitting him with more force the faster he's going, so as his speed increases it would have to protect him more). So if someone is able to tag him while he's not moving (relatively) fast, it would definitely hurt him.

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ImNemotheGemini

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#30  Edited By ImNemotheGemini

Y'all can argue physics and what should or could be all day.. The main thing here is in panel Feats ! Does Flash have the hardest punch ? Maybe ! Does he have the feats to back that claim up though ? That's simple question could solve this whole thread easily ! Feats !

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fil123

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#32  Edited By fil123

Flash would be the most deadly and powerful comic book character is he didnt have morals

he can just vibrate his hand at such a high frequency and rip out a brain. or just go back in time and kill you as a baby.

Also from the picture his punch can do as much damage as a white dwarf star, he can virtually anyone with a punch

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Bezza

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Well, I believe that as an object approaches the speed of light, its mass increases, so surely the Flash would have the hardest punch, if physics were involved. In fact, I suggest that an IMF punch would probably completely obliterate even a meta human type opponent. When you think what damage a bullet does when fired at only 700 MPH, something "fired" at 186,000 miles per second, would do unthinkable damage. But then, they always have to reign in the Flash's feats, so he doesn't overshadow the likes of Superman......

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#34  Edited By Bruticus112

First off, Flash doesn't have enough mass to be the hardest hitter ever if we're using F=MA. Also, what a lot of people dont get about strength is that strength is the ability to produce force. If you're not producing force you cant lift, push, pull or punch for crap. Even if that was wrong which it isn't, I'm sure that if you can press 100 tons you can "press-punch"/smash someones face in.

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kbroskywalker

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@bezza: strength is how hard you hit,