does anyone find it ridiculous that a character as weak as Batman is on the jl?

Can someone explain to me the purpose of Batman on the league? I mean to put I blankly if he was not written to be such a ridiculous character cyborg would pretty much be Batman but better bc of a cyborg body.

Also I mostly have problems with the fact him being on the league gives him some ridiculous ass plot armor like surfing a attack from darkseid that hurt Superman and green lantern. Like wft that makes no sense.

Then overall he is just inconsistent in how smart he is. In jl comics Batman has fight more powerful characters so of course he becomes even more ridiculous which overall just makes him more inconsistent. I mean batman in his own comics sometimes struggles with bane from time to time but that’s in Batman comics. In jl comics Batman would most likely stomp bane in one or two scans all the time

I don't know. Batman's proven his worth to the team in Morrison's JLA already. Man took down a large number of White Martians with some gasoline and some sparks of flames when everyone else was down for the count. He's the human who takes note of every variable that he and the team can exploit when everyone else, ally or enemy, doesn't register him as a threat.

@life_without_progress: exactly why batman is ridiculous. How does a human even have the time to set something up when they should be comparable to characters like Superman who move at the speed of light?

Again another problem actually. Batman nerfs all of the characters speed bc he is human.

Also why were the white martians weak to fire? I thought that was only a mental weakness for John.

As far as I know batman has only proven just how much the writers can suck him off

Batman's purpose is to be the strategic leader I guess. He doesn't have to fight the threat head on but he figures out how to eventually win with his intellect and planning.

Others at best just stall the threats while Bats figures out how to defeat it and then others carry out the process as described by him.

Because

He’s

BATMAN

@dcandmarvelcomicfan: Steve isn’t even as half as intelligent or rich as Bruce Wayne

If you take away the HUMAN member of the uber powered team you take away yhe one character the reader is relatable to. The one character that makes the reader they too could be such a hero with the right training, tech, weapons or attitude.

In the mighty Crisaders (MLJ/Archie comics) you had Jaguar (class 100, invulnerable, super speed, flight etc), Comet ( Cyclops like blast power but more powerful and superspeed flight), shield (super strength, invulnerable, super speed etc) Shield III/lancelot Strong (super strength speed, flight, agility, regeneration, energy manipulation) and the fly (flight with sting gun. You still had Web who was just a smart criminologist and Black Hood who was basically a biker Punisher type (walling armory who blows mother f##$ers away)

Avengers still has Hawkeye, and many other streets.

Every uber powered team has some normalish character a member for the reader to view themself through.

Ditto

@beatboks1: Batman is a relatable as everyone else is in the JL, he's not more relatable than any one of them.

Superman- desire to fit in

Batman- loss

Aquaman- responsibility

Jonn- past

Wonder Woman- finding out who you are

Etc

They're all related characters.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/White_Martians

@dmnb2wavy: Same dude who thinks darth Vader is overrated and Thanos is better lol.

Batman is useful.

I'll be honest I always laugh my ass off when I see batman trying to engage with beings that give the justice league trouble and think ''what the hell are you going to do batman get out of there''. He should just stick to monitor duty and guide the team from a safe distance using manhunters telepathic link or something.

@dmnb2wavy: Jonn went through torturous mental training if I remember to be somewhat immune to fire, which is why he can resist fire much better than any white martian.

No because he makes up for his lack of strength in many other ways. However, it is ridiculous how he evades attacks from Doomsday etc.

Batman is not just a street level vgilante. He's basically a world class superhero. On a practical level, he has the resources, the skills and the brainpower to hold a respectable position in the League. This is the man that designed an armor that could hold its own against Darkseid. He has assisted the likes of Superman in combat training. He has mastered ninjutsu to a supernatural degree, where he can stealth his way in a room with all the rest of the League members without them knowing. These aren't skills the rest of the Justice League brings to the table.

Most important of all for me, and I think people don't think about this enough, Batman represents humanity in the Justice League. He represents this weaker people who aren't blessed with the raw power of aliens like the Kryptonians or the Green Lanterns. He knows where to put a stop if it means protecting the weak, wether it's humans or not. And because he is the outlier of this weak people in the universe but still one of them, he instinctively knows he cannot trust anyone, not even his own teammates, with this level of power; he knows he has to be ready to take down Superman, or the Flash, or Green Lantern, or Wonder Woman, if he has to, otherwise 'Injustice' could happen. It's canon that he has a specialised prep plan for each member of the League - that's where the prep-god memes come from anyway. Imagine if all of this was true in our world, if Superman existed. Wouldn't we want a Batman, one of us to be able to stand against him if need be?

The problem people have with this is that it is very, very difficult to write in a story, that's why some of my favorite Batman stories are not just his street level ones - that are often well written - but also the well done ones that involve him being part of the Justice League. It's hard to fit a human in there and make it look believable, and even when you emphasize on the thing I mentioned above about him defending humanity and being to stand against his metahuman teammates, you often get stuff like Aquaman taken down by bubblegum or Superman getting beaten by a wistle. Frankly, if it's not written well, it sucks like that. That's why people have a problem with it, probably why OP has a problem with it too. But if it's well written, it works. For me anyway.

He isn't a full-time member a lot of the time anyways...and don't forget he bankrolls everything.

@kursetoaa: when did I say thanos is better?

And me thinking darth vader is over rated has nothing to do with this discussion

Batman is useful bc the plot demands it

@dmnb2wavy: he is useful because is planning and his money and his gadgets.

I remember your posts in Thanos and Vader lol. And about Batman too, just stop it man.

@beatboks1: @beatboks1: “If you take away the HUMAN member of the uber powered team you take away yhe one character the reader is relatable to. The one character that makes the reader they too could be such a hero with the right training, tech, weapons or attitude.“

Tbh I never understand this argument. Everyone in the league is supposed to be relatable.

Also it’s a pipe dream if any of us think we could stand with gods such as Superman or flash even with the right training.

Hell even if we was to say batman is relatable bc he is “human” that would be 100 % false as his feats are pretty much beyond human capabilities

As for characters like cap I find it also ridiculous

@kursetoaa: you mean plot armor. Batman can survive the dumbest things bc of plot

Again what do those post have to do with this? Also again when did I state thanos was better? And I still have not found a valid reason as to why vader was one of the best villains of all time unless your gonna explain it to me

And what about batman?

Batman is a great character and he helps. Saying otherwise isn’t true anyways vader is an amazing villain

....no

@kursetoaa: “Batman is a great character and he helps. Saying otherwise isn’t true anyways vader is an amazing villain“

Who said batman was not a great character? I do think Batman is a good character I just think he can get really ridiculous. Yes he helps with plot armor. I should not say batman isn’t not useful at all bc there are times where batman can be useful like strategy as other users has said but that’s what he should only be useful for strategy and money( even tho I find it ridiculous that a human can strategize better than cyborg who is a very advanced machine.)

Still when looking at what batman should actually offer

To the league it should not be that much.

Another user has said he bring martial arts but ww does the same. They also stated he brings armors capable of fighting darkseid which cyborg should be easily able to replicate. ( tho by feats Batman is a better gadgets guy even tho cyborg should have more op gadgets.

As for vader no prove to me he was a amazing villain. He did cool things as a villain but what made him one of the best villains of all time? Also I would just say vader is a good character instead of a good villain

In solo books characters with great powers are humanized by their interaction with those normal characters around them. That's why Lois is so important in the Superman mythos. In team books there simply isnt the allowance for this, the blot demands and pacing requited to include so many characters and use them well prohibits it. On VERY rare occasions really good writers can accomplish it without a more down to earth character. Marv Wolfman's work on Titans is such an example, but its rare to see it done well.

A perfect example of a normal human character saving a ppwerhouse was the pre crisis Green Lantern/ Green Arrow. Hal Jordan at the time was loosing mass appeal and couldnt hold a title and maintain sales on his own. They started a book that wasnhalf him and Half Oliver Queen. Then they had the two paired together in the same story. They travelled America together with the social justice warrior trying to give Hal some humility and a link to the everyday man. Green Lantern came close to being cancelled until they hooked him up with Ollie to be his concience and. develop a human character that could be related to. This was because unlike other characters his support cast simply couldnt provide that well enough. He wasnt around pieface or Carol enough with his soace missions etc.

In team books the void filled by the human support cast in solo titles is performed by the nore human members. There has to be some level of decent character interaction with them and the more powerful members of the team for them to even survive. Its this interaction that gives what ever little character development you get in a team book. Without it all you have is one flashy action scene after another. Theres no reason for WW, GL, Flash, Superman, or MMH to have to save each other in a battle. The likes however of Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Blue Beetle simply dont survive without a bond and character link to one or more of the powerhouses they fight beside.

Without a down to earth everyman character to force character interplay the tendancy is to write a story purely action driven which then necomes boring and uninteresting.

@dmnb2wavy: every character has plot and he is skilled and a good planner

Tower of Babel explains it.

@beatboks1:

“In solo books characters with great powers are humanized by their interaction with those normal characters around them. That's why Lois is so important in the Superman mythos. In team books there simply isnt the allowance for this, the blot demands and pacing requited to include so many characters and use them well prohibits it. On VERY rare occasions really good writers can accomplish it without a more down to earth character. Marv Wolfman's work on Titans is such an example, but its rare to see it done well.“

You say it’s rare and yet there are tons of stories where all the characters have super powers and they are relatable bc of the character themselves not the powers.

Also no lois does make superman relatable.Superman is relatable bc he is a alien coming to a foreign land. Him having Lois does not make him relatable.

Overall I just don’t see how this argument makes any sense.

“A perfect example of a normal human character saving a ppwerhouse was the pre crisis Green Lantern/ Green Arrow. Hal Jordan at the time was loosing mass appeal and couldnt hold a title and maintain sales on his own. They started a book that wasnhalf him and Half Oliver Queen. Then they had the two paired together in the same story. They travelled America together with the social justice warrior trying to give Hal some humility and a link to the everyday man. Green Lantern came close to being cancelled until they hooked him up with Ollie to be his concience and. develop a human character that could be related to. This was because unlike other characters his support cast simply couldnt provide that well enough. He wasnt around pieface or Carol enough with his soace missions etc.“

So your saying for a character to be relatable they need to be connected to humans? Yeah no Honestly this just seems like gl leeching off the game of green arrow instead of the following.

Overall it was probably just gl stories being ass and the crossover being better

“In team books the void filled by the human support cast in solo titles is performed by the nore human members. There has to be some level of decent character interaction with them and the more powerful members of the team for them to even survive. Its this interaction that gives what ever little character development you get in a team book. Without it all you have is one flashy action scene after another. “

No not really. Your acting like we can’t have deep or interesting story telling with powerful characters.

“Theres no reason for WW, GL, Flash, Superman, or MMH to have to save each other in a battle. The likes however of Batman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Huntress, Blue Beetle simply dont survive without a bond and character link to one or more of the powerhouses they fight beside.”

This statement is obviously false.

Superman has saved flash many times and of course through fighting they would have bonds this is not just some human thing.

“Without a down to earth everyman character to force character interplay the tendancy is to write a story purely action driven which then necomes boring and uninteresting.”

Yeah no again powerful characters can be interesting without weak characters.

@kursetoaa: I know everyone has plot armor. But batman plot armor in justice league movies shows or comics is just ridiculous.

Your right I already stated he has the best strategies ( which should not be possible)

Nah. He's made and worked on Batsuits, strategies, and gears while working hard physically and mentally to be different enough from the others, yet acceptable.

@dmnb2wavy:

Couldnt dissagree more. Superman is a boring ass character that osnt worth reading without his supporting cast. I literally gave up reading Superman books after the death of superman because the reign of the Superman was purely about the power of the characters

Any story of Superman having to save Flash, WW, MMH, or GL is a PIS low showing for any of them both Diana and Jonn have similar durability to Clark and the means to defend anything he could. Flash can react faster than Clark and can phase and GLs have a ring that auto protects their life and can create shields to handle anything.

Of course they have character interaction but when dealing with only that set of character there is a temdancies for writers to want to show off what they can make them do, how far they can push the ability. Having a character or two who operate on more a normal level requires things to be slowed a little to include them in the mix. The fact that they have to put them into the story requires nore creativity on how to make use of them and that is usually done thru character interplay.

Hal became interesting during that run of GA/GL because for the first time in a decade he was dealing with things he couldnt solve in a panel or two. He could solve poverty or social issues.

He is worthy of being a JL member

- He's ridiculously rich, one of the richest characters. He pays for the watchtower, all tech etc.

- Master tactician.

- Super genius. Top notch detective, chemist, hacker, etc.

If you read the JL , you would know why an how he fits in.

Even without Super Powers

Its why Batman is the most unrealistic comic boom character at all time. This dude is HUMAN and has time to

Run a billion dollar multinational corporation and that comes with that (meetings and whatnot)

Keep in IMPECCABLE shape

Learn AND MASTER 127 different forms of martial arts and more importantly MAINTAIN that mastery

Research crime activity

Fight Crime

Maintain important relationships

Make public appearances as Bruce Wayne

Be part of the Justice League

Eat, Sleep, Shit

Like how does he have time for all this? This dude cant get more than 3 hours of sleep a night, if that and you do that for too long, his body will break down. It's literally impossible to be Batman as a normal human.

You have to take it the other way around.

Batman is only what writters make him. Batman has been ridiculous in JL but in his own titles has well. Also Batman has been great in JL as well as in his own titles.

You probably haven't read the best stories.

I wouldn't have any problem with Batman, if his plot armor wouldn't make so many Justice League stories so stupid.

I feel like he either drags the team down or is useless.

Because he's more skilled, intelligent and tactically minded than the others. He also has more resources than anyone else.

It is ridiculous, but Batman prints money. He outsells every other character on the JL roster by a lot. Like whole lot. Putting his face on a cover literally boost sells.

People like Batman are literally the embodiment of PIS. There is no logical reason why they should be on the team, or able to compete/fight/contribute at that level, but the writers find some way to keep them relevant and effective. Invincible prep (Batman having a sure-fire way to kill every single member of the JL that apparently can't fail - despite this making no logical sense whatsoever given the power gap between them), impossible intelligence/tactics, lots of things going that character's way in the plot to keep them alive, etc.

Bc I’m not gonna respond to everyone ill just post my thoughts here.

now let reiterate.

I have no problems with Batman being on the league if he sits at the watcher tower or bat cave and help them from there or suit up to help fight with them.

now my problem lies in the fact in a majority of jl stories batman is just wearing a normal bat suit which means vs any character who scales to Superman, the flash, green lantern, ww or manhunter they should just speed blizt him. What I’m trying to mainly get at is Batman slows down all of the characters speeds to make himself relevant.

logically Batman should not be able to keep up with anyone who scales to any jl member but he does all the time.

not only does batman keeping up with theses characters make absolutely no sense, the fact he can survive even glancing blows from theses characters is just even more ridiculous.

logically speaking batman should of died a long time ago when darkseid attacked the league and Batman was caught in a attack with the other jl members.

so overall bc Batman stupidly runs into fights with his normal suit the writers has to nerf everyone’s speed accordingly to even make him relevant.

y'all Can speak on his armors (that he rarely uses,) and y’all can speak on his planing and tactic skills ( which are impressive) but none of y'all can honestly convince me that a guy like Batman deserves to be on the league unless he in armor or in the watchtower directing them from a distance

First of, a normal bat suit, is already very impressive. My wonder is why does he need an armor ?

Second, on the field Batman is the member with the better analysis of the situation, and with the better resolving skills.

Also, you don't necessarly win with speed nor strength.

You should probably read the Batman/Superman stories, and you'll see why Batman or Superman alone cannot solve every situations.

You have a too narrow imagination and too narrow knowledge of the threats the JL faces.

That’s like asking why captain America is the leader despite being one of the weakest main members

OP is clearly a Batman hater

Batman has been the most popular superhero from 90s to 2017

I would assume that anyone who can wear ridiculous costumes could readily join the Justice League.

It's all about the costume.