Does Adult Naruto Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode? (REVISED)

Yeah, not interested in this ever since the incredulous "he was using low gravity to fly" point was made and apparently believed.

Do you realise that I don't even need that argument anymore now that we have direct proof? It can still be used as supporting evidence since you have yet to disprove me on that?

You do realize the idea of using low gravity to to fly is stupid because low gravity doesn't help you instantaneously change direction in mid air in the middle of a battle. Nor does it allow you to levitate in the sky. That argument literally makes 0 sense. There's arguments that make sense that we can debunk, but then there's certain kind of nonsensical arguments that are so far fetched it doesn't need to be debunked.

I once heard "BSM Naruto = SPSM Naruto" with the most bullshit logic behind it. How do you even combat that type of shit

It’s not worth even pondering this writer doesn’t respect his own rules he sets up...

@supermanforever: I heard some one say that it might be because at that time sosp form had still not appeared in the anime. Also the last has a novel

You should read the shikimaru novel...

i was gonna read through the OP but the assumption on the Last just threw me off. Why assume he lost it then, he most likely felt he didn't need that much against Toneri.

Right before that Naruto just got humiliated by Toneri, got his GF stolen away, and on a time limit to save the world from getting crushed.

"Humiliated"? Quite the exaggeration. He never once got humiliated by Toneri in the movie, he was strong enough to one shot him without ever taking damage the entire fight. Toneri was quite clearly no match and he was the one that got humiliated honestly. He didn't use spsm because he didn't need to.

Unless you think Naruto is Goku who would risk everything for a good fight, he definitely had no reason to hold back. In the end he only barely managed to save the world shy a few minutes.

He didn't transform not even into sage mode to stop Hinata from being kidnapped. There's multiple scenarios in which transforming would have been ideal, instead Naruto chooses not to because he simply doesn't need to. Nothing was stopping Naruto from solo raiding Toneri's castle by himself in Bijuu mode with 10 to 15 clones and just clean house even though that'd be the most efficient way to get the job done while keeping his friends safe, but he chose not to.

Actually it makes less sense if you assume otherwise, because we actually saw the source of Hagoromo's Chakra being returned, and we saw him exhausting every last drop of existing chakra in his body.

Show a scan showing Hagoromo retaking his power/chakra back. That was another thing you just threw into your OP without a scan to back up iirc.

The whole concept isn't actually hard to grasp and is pretty consistent imo. But inherently no fandoms want to believe that the main character got weaker, hence all the irrational effort to argue otherwise. I mean, it's not intuitive to imagine Six Paths-ness of your chakra being suppressed to begin with.

Hm? What's irrational is you suggesting Naruto got weaker over time, despite he and Sasuke dwarfing a Kaguya level threat together while heavily nerfed and despite Sasuke keeping all of his six paths power but still somehow only being equal to Naruto who lost all of his accordiny to you. For you to claim they got weaker is to literally contradict the writers of the story, who quite blatantly wrote them to be a lot stronger than they were before.

Why exactly do you say Naruto got weaker again? Because he doesn't have the seal on his hand anymore? I'm not rereading your OP, so a tl;dr?

@tcharlie: Sasuke is weaker than Naruto and Naruto still has all his forms lmao.

I'm talking about before he went to the Moon when he got his chakra sucked out. Naruto was the one who got one shotted.

Against a bunch of fodder ninjas that was somewhat understandable. Not to mention they were ambushed so for Naruto who didn't have a chance to use his BM for the past 2 years, he probably didn't think so much. For the Moon fight however is very different. He already transformed into BSM, so none of those excuses work.

I'll pass addressing the second case.

Bottom-line is, giving counter-examples of other contexts is no proof that he would do the same under more extreme circumstances. And nothing is more extreme than the lives of Hinata dangling in front of him, by someone who was powerful enough to one shot him before.

If you want to claim that he's holding back against Toneri, you should prove it on your own. Because common sense is that he would, and you are the one denying the status quo.

No he didn't take back his chakra, he took back the source of his chakra. And then Naruto exhasted all the remaining chakra in his body. Scans in the OP I believe.

I'm not talking about Boruto era here, I was just talking about The Last.

@thegodmadara: You really are just some kind of idiot aren't you? Who said Naruto was stronger than Isshiki?

so basically mans is telling us that Naruto exhausted all his remaining Six paths powers, but Sasuke got to keep his?

That doesn't matter. Toneri "one shotted" base Naruto with his own chakra who (yet again) didn't bother to transform. Naruto always knew he was stronger than Toneri, he never took him too seriously even in serious situations. It's clear Naruto didn't see Toneri as someone he couldn't handle, or else he obviously wouldn't have fought him in a weaker form and dominate him with 1 punch the way he did.

That's a whole lot of headcanon. They aren't excuses if they're true, Naruto didn't need a stronger form than what he used to beat Toneri and it's quite literally that simple. It's not like he was restricted to that form, as you suggested, and forced to fight Toneri in it. If that were the case that would be an extremely important plot point someone would've made clear in either the Novel or the movie.

Yeah, up until he actually did do the same under extreme circumstances, because he could afford to. Like when he fought Delta he played hurt even though she really could've tried to light blast them kids at any point. He can clearly afford to do these things when he's just that much stronger than them.

cough in base cough

You're literally just assuming Naruto doesn't have his six paths chakra anymore based off of decisions you personally thought he should've made, he clearly does still have his form. After skimming over your OP it sounds to me like your final verdict is Naruto can go into his six paths sage mode, but apparently only because of "residue" and he can only enter it when combining it with his bijuu mode but he can't activate it in his base? What? I'm really confused on your stance cause that doesn't make any sense. I actually have a lot of questions about some of what I read but I'll stay on topic.

Want me to prove it? Because he used bijuu sage mode even though he's clearly shown to still have his six paths sage mode. This is quite easily backed by the movie itself and the rest of the series. Now you prove Naruto doesn't have his six paths sage mode apparently only during the events of The Last movie but he has it after the movie in Boruto but only has a little bit so he can only enter it when he combines it with his bijuu but he can't enter it in base though. Prove that shit.

But that's the thing, Hagoromo didn't take back anything. He gave Naruto both halves of Kurama, made him the jinchuriki of all 9 bijuj and literally sent him and Sasuke on their way to fight. He never popped up again after that, he never took shit. I didn't see any scan supporting that in the OP.

And that's what makes this even weirder. You just claimed Naruto is weaker than what he used to be. Logically people assume you include the Boruto era, but apparently you don't. So you're saying Naruto only was weaker during The Last, but got a lot stronger again in Boruto?

Seems like you need to rewatch that scene. Naruto was looking pretty helpless but you somehow manage to twist it to "never took him too seriously".

Only people who are as desperate as you to use any kind of weak ass counter argument whatsoever will sit here and try and suggest Naruto chasing an Otsutsuki in his base form is him taking anything seriously. And Toneri only knockrd him out using Naruto's own chakra, clearly Toneri did nothing to warrant Naruto to try any harder than he needed.

Also that punch wasn't casual. He had to converge all his chakra which leaves his body vulnerable. Not to mention all the battles before that. Throughout the fight Naruto always looked tense, but you said as if he was testing him like Goku waiting for him to finish using all his moves.

My god. When has this much headcanon and completely baseless arguments become so common? How are you so comfortable basing your arguments off of nothing but your opinion so much? How does Naruto whooping someone on screen in a weaker form with 1 punch without ever once getting touched mean Naruto "looked tense" when it literally shows the opposite?

Stop comparing Naruto to Goku, they're not the same.

It isn't important to the plot whether he has Six paths chakra. To a debator like you yes but not to the laymen.

That's not a reason for them to not explain an important plot point regarding Naruto's strength. If they were going to strip the form for a movie but then have him and Sasuke dwarf a Kaguya level threat years later with the form, they'd provide explanation. Naruto being restricted to a weaker form even if apparently only for the time being would've been disclosed since it's important. Not only to me, it's also important to their own story if Naruto has one of strongest form in his arsenal still or not, shit like that gets disclosed for obvious reasons.

Anyways they did make it obvious when eyeball Toneri could absorb Naruto's chakra but not Hamura's Chakra in Hinata. And also the fact that Sasuke was said to be stronger than Naruto in The Last novel.

Explain the correlation between Toneri absorbing Naruto's chakra but not Hinata. What does that have to do with his form? And you simply assuming Naruto doesn't have shit because Sasuke is stronger than Naruto is also baseless. Reading your arguments is probably the equivalent to a teacher telling a student they're wrong but the student still thinks they're right just because they showed work, regardless how wrong the process is.

Firstly, just because he could afford to doesn't justify anything.

But it does, since he then goes to fight him in a weaker form. And not only does he do that, he bodies him. He dead ass punched the tenseigan out of him. Arguing with concrete on screen feats won't end well for you, I'm letting you know now.

If someone humiliated and threatens you and the destruction of your world, there's no reason for you to hold back unless you're an special kind of idiot like Goku.

Or unless you just have the power to like Naruto. Your argument would only be a good one if Naruto was actually struggling when he fought Toneri in that form, had Naruto actually gotten tagged mutltiple times and been struggling while in a weaker form, then him being restricted to that form would be a good argument since that'll leave the question: Why didn't he just transform and demolish him? But when you watch the movie, it's clear why he didn't. He didn't have to.

Constantly complaining about him doing what he's clearly able to afford to do won't change the fact he did it.

Second, Naruto didn't know he could afford to. He only barely managed to save the world shy a few minutes, and it's not like BSM is so much stronger, it is only barely stronger.

Right, because only transforming at the end of the movie when he been could've done to end things a lot quicker means he was definitely taking him seriously, huh. Makes sense. And now BSM isn't much stronger? What? Bro, don't start saying a bunch of nonsensical shit because you're backed into a corner. Just don't.

Before the fight begans, nobody knows how the story would end. One wrong turn could've destroyed the world but you acting as if Naruto was so confident when he clearly wasn't.

But he was clearly very confident. And actually, confident is a better word to describe why Naruto didn't transform instead of saying he didn't take it thag seriously. He clearly was just confident in his ability to do it in his weaker form as well:

- Naruto not ending things a lot sooner when he could've

- Naruto not transforming at any other point in the movie except the end

- Naruto choosing to fight in his base and weaker forms instead of getting shit over with literally instantly

Naruto knows his own ability. The fact you're even responding to undeniable on screen feats(and backed by the novel as well) with headcanon and personal input shows how baseless everything you're arguing is.

His decisions weren't the only argument, you should be aware by now.

No, but it's ironically your strongest one. You're basing your entire argument off of Naruto only using that form in that movie because he couldn't use the stronger one, and your reasoning behind that isn't proof or anything. It's literally just headcanon and pure speculation. I still ain't see you show a scan showing Hagoromo taking a damn thing.

He only showed SPSM in Boruto era, 8 years after The Last. Objectively speaking, that is no proof that he can use SPSM in The Last.

Well, the fact he had the form both before and after the events of the movie so there's no logical reason why you should believe it's gone in the first place, meaning the burden of proof is upon you to prove it's gone in the first place(and you haven't proved that ofc) since that's the new claim being made.

He took back the seal, which from Kaguya's Byakugans' view, chakra was flowing out which made her mistook them for Hagoromo and Hamura.

You still aint show a scan of him taking anything lmao.

Point is that right now we're talking about whether he has SPSM in The Last, so obviously I'm talking about The Last Naruto. Whether he got stronger in Boruto era is not relevant for the topic at hand.

You created the thread for adult versions in general which obviously include the actual adult versions, so why you came and just started restricting shit to The Last now is beyond me, but do you.

Your very sentence of accusing me being desperate ironically screams desperation. Let's keep this professional shall we.

Look. Does this look like holding back to you? Every scene in the movie is along these lines.

He was in base form. He's chasing him in his base form, not KCM. Not Bijuu mode. Not even sage mode. Base form, but he's "really trying"? This is what I'm telling you, you're trying to debate using facial expressions and headcanon, I'm using undeniable facts. He was in base form fighting Toneri, he wasn't taking him seriously, actions speak louder than facial expressions. He told Delta he'd get serious on her too, and with her he actually used spsm and he still held back/didn't take her seriously. Same with Toneri, except worse since he didn't even get to fight spsm.

Now all you have to do is to show me one frame whereby he even remotely LOOKS like he's being casual about anything. Shouldn't be too challenging right?

Oh wow, his argument is revolving around facial expressions and how he personally felt Naruto should have been animated. What a surprise. Your arguments aren't even arguments, they're baseless and nonsensical, and that's what I'm trying to show you. You're literally trying to debate against on screen feats with your personal opinion, facal animations and shit you personally think Naruto should've done, ignoring the evidence in front of you that happen right in the movie:

- Naruto was in base

- He was holding back significantly

- You don't take people "seriously" and fight them in base, that's common sense, I shouldn't have needed to even explain that to you.

Precisely. But that's what you're portraying Naruto as, not me.

I mean you call it headcanon, but all I've said was that converging chakra on his hand makes his body vulnerable, which is nothing but objective facts.

No, it's literally exactly what happened so that's what you take at face value. And until you have evidence or concrete proof supporting your narrative(which you won't since it doesnt exist) instead of pure speculation, headcanon and completely idiotic logic, then that's what the verdict is. You don't sit here and watch Naruto hold back, fighting in base, on screen proof and evidence, but then try to suggest he actually was trying his hardest and got one shotted when he quite literally wasn't. You're desperate and it clearly shows just off the simple fact your response to my evidence is "FaCiAl eXpResSiOnS" and how you personally felt things should've been handled. But I already debunked your thought process by proving Naruto could've did many things to make it easier but chooses not to, which directly debunks you. You lack any real argument entirely because your logic was flawed since the beginning.

Again we can argue all day about whether he looks tense or not, when you can just show me one picture that he doesn't. If it even exist that is.

You're only arguing with yourself over that shit. I'm not entertaining anything other than actual evidence, not your headcanon.

For the record, I don't agree that Momoshiki is indeed Kaguya level threat, nor do I agree that Sasuke dwarfs him. But let's stick with these for now.

I'm sure.

So remember when Naruto half-admitted that he couldn't beat one-eyed God Tree Juubidara alone? So you claim that Sasuke went from that, to dwarfing Kaguya level threat. And where is the explanation? Nothing.

Lmao, how did they get that strong? Hmm, idk, maybe that 2 decade timeskip when they had hella time to improve? Or maybe even the timeskip before that from Shippuden to The Last? Maybe both? Common sense. Timeskips in Shonen literally almost always meant a significant improvement on pre-timeskip versions, and Naruto and Boruto(the shows) are no exception to this rule obviously as Naruto has had time skips where the characters show a significant level up afterward just because of it.

Or how about why did Sasuke have tomoe Rinnegan? Where's the explanation? The story isn't going to spoon-feed you everything, deal with it.

Because he always had it and it was never lost to begin with. No, they won't spoon feed you everything, but that doesn't mean you can just make shit up, it will tell you important details like Naruto not having his strongest form for the time being. If Naruto even had a time period without being able to use his rasengan because reasons, that would be disclosed because it actually is that important in Shonen. Same reason why they specifically let you know Kaguya built that army against Momo because she literally lacked the power to confront him without it:

Strength/Power is a big part of development and story in Shonen and nothing like Naruto's strongest form going missing will just be dismissed from the story. You don't just randomly start assuming hella random shit and literally creating your own headcanon fanfiction version of the story just to fit your narrative.

If Toneri could absorb Naruto's chakra so easily, chances are he doesn't have Six Paths Chakra. Because Hamura's Chakra is also Six Paths Chakra which he happens to not be able to absorb. It is very unlikely that he can absorb Hagoromo's Chakra, but not Hamura's Chakra, because they almost identical in nature and callibre.

Didn't he literally absorb Hinata's chakra at the beginning of the movie, which is the reason why she couldn't fight or wall walk when she was kidnapped? Also I actually wanna see the scene you're talking about where he supposedly couldn't absorb her power too.

If Naruto still has every power, it's very unlikely that Sasuke can match, let alone surpass Naruto in 2 years. Naruto beat him even with the amp of 9 Bijuu.

While I agree, this is still your headcanon talking. You don't know the development Naruto and Sasuke can make in 2 years by the time of adulthood when they're basically demigods. Sasuke went from needing a Susano'o to handle meteors to just using his regular chidori to bust half of one(which would've easily obliterated the full one) in base.

Now you can always take the unlikely edge cases that Sasuke somehow train enough to surpass the 9 Bijuu powers, and that Toneri just so happens to not be able to absorb Hamura's Chakra only. They are not definitive proof by themselves, but makes a very strong case when you combine the fact that Naruto, for one reason or another, did not use SPSM in The Last.

Both them points were debunked. And there's a very clear and obvious third option to why he never went spsm, with a whole lot more evidence backing it. But you don't like that one, so you'll stick to your headcanon versions, hm?

According to you, if your girlfriend is held at gunpoint, you would only use half your strength because you know half your strength is enough to knock the adversary out. Which is wrong.

Lmao, if i was a demigod like Naruto who can afford to, you damn right I'm not using all my damn power unless I need to. That's not wrong in the slightest lmao.

Just because you can afford to, doesn't mean you will. There's the emotional factor.

Right, but see, Naruto actually does it and you're still not satisfied. How you think Naruto should've responded to the threat versus how he actually responded are like night and day. You assuming he tried his hardest but restricted, as opposed to the facts - that he didn't try his hardest(not even close), decided not to use spsm, then finished him in 1 punch without breaking a sweat.

Second point is that you won't know half your strength is enough until you made the punch. Unless Naruto was thrashing Toneri the whole time, which isn't the case.

But that is the case. And Toneri couldn't even overwhelm Naruto in a weaker form.

Yes he did beat him, but doing it barely

What makes you think he "barely" beat Toneri? The only thing he "barely" did was save the planet in time, his fight with Toneri was short and completely onesided.

isn't enough to justify not using a stronger form as if he knew it's going to turn out like this all along.

But he did know it was gonna turn out like that all along. Not only did he use a weaker form, he demolished him in like 2 minutes with it. Naruto's confidence is pretty apparent.

And also, if not for Hinata, he could've been beaten by eyeball Toneri as well. So no, he couldn't forsee that he could afford to hold back, neither could you.

As usual, more headcanon. He wouldn't have been beaten by eyeball Toneri lmao. Absorbing Naruto's chakra proved pointless to his enemies time and time again.

Thirdly, he had to leave his body vulnerable to execute the punch, it wasn't as casual as you make it out to be.

He could afford to leave his body vulnerable and one shot him in base form. Toneri with the tenseigan couldn't even react to base Naruto running up and jawing the shit out of him. The fight was clearly onesided.

Honestly that looks more like Naruto's last straw because it had it's drawbacks. So no even this moment that you cherry-picked out of the entire fight doesn't justify your argument either.

Yeah, they do. Lmao, you're so desperate trying your hardest to debunk a point by nitpicking "hE LEfT hImsElF eXpoSed! PRoOf hE tRieD hiS hArDeSt!!" You're hilarious lmao. Naruto literally leaving himself exposed while fighting someone blatantly weaker than him literally debunks your own point as it shows he doesn't take him seriously enough to not do something so risky.

Why does it have to be at the end of the movie? Why not right before he made his trip to Moon?

Because that's the only time he transformed into any real fighting transformation the entire movie. Before, he only used sage mode and that was purely for sensing.

Again, pulling a strawman is a very ironic way of claiming that I'm backed into a corner.

No one is strawmanning. You are backed into a corner and it's clear as day. When all your arguments revolve around is headcanon and your personal opinion you were never getting too far anyway.

Point 1 and 2 is begging the question fallacy when you assume that he can use the form to prove that he was confident, to prove that he can use the form.

Lmao, no. And don't start twisting my words around just because you're the only one assuming anything here. My arguments for why he had it is simple and dwarf your arguments:

- He was never shown/stated to lose the form

- He easily bodied an Otsutsuki in a weaker form after procrastinating the entire movie to actually tranform to fight, proving he's confident in his ability by choosing not to transform when it would've been ideal

- He has the form both before and after the events of the movie so there's no reason why you should believe it's gone in the first place(which tbh, this is the only argument I really needed to debunk you)

Point 3 already addressed. And even if I were to concede this point and say that Naruto was indeed confident at that point in time, that was before he got one-shotted by Toneri. It doesn't justify why he didn't go full power afterwards.

Because he didn't need to. That's clear when you watch the fight. I wonder how many time I'm gonna need to repeat myself.

I use to believe that Naruto could use SPSM in The Last too. There are 2 main logical reasons and many supporting reasons to believe otherwise which changed my mind.

They're not logical at all, they're completely nonsensical. Nothing but speculation and a complete disregard to the actual facts.

I guess you're not wrong about burden of proof, but again, having SPSM 8 years later still isn't proof that he has in The Last.

It was never gone in the first place.

All you had to do is to search "hagoromo taking back seal".

Quick question, isn't having all the 9 tailed beasts' chakra enough to enter spsm since you're basically the 10 tailed beasts jinchuriki? What part does the whole "wood release" play in giving naruto the ability to enter spsm?