Does Adult Naruto Still Have Six Paths Sage Mode? (REVISED)

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Revold

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Edited By Revold

There is a big confusion why Naruto could only use regular Sage Mode in The Last, but could still use Six Paths Sage Mode before in Shippuden and after in Boruto era. So this post is split into 3 parts:

  • What is Six Paths Chakra
  • How Naruto lost his Six Paths Chakra
  • How Naruto regained it

What is Six Paths Chakra

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Six Paths Chakra is the source of the Six Paths Powers, such as awakening the Rinnegan or Six Paths Senjutsu.

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There are three ways to obtain Six Paths Chakra:

1. By mixing the chakra of Indra and Ashura (i.e. Living Madara)

2. By absorbing the chakra of all nine Bijuu and Gedo Mazo (i.e. Juubito)

3. By posessing the Yin or Yang seal (i.e. Hagoromo, Hamura, Naruto, Sasuke)

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Six Paths Chakra is not the same as Hagoromo's (base/pre-sage) Chakra as it is only part of it. According to Hagoromo himself, his chakra not only consist of the chakra of Indra and Ashura, but also that of the Kyuubi. This explains why Hagoromo was not able to manifest in Madara's mind when he awakened the Rinnegan, and also why Sasuke was able to awaken Rinne Sharingan but Madara didn't.

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Sasuke was also able to meet Hagoromo due to the small amount of Kyuubi Chakra he received from Naruto. And after he got Hashirama's cells from Kabuto, the Six Paths chakra mixes with the Kyuubi chakra to create Hagoromo's chakra. However after he exhasted all of the Kyuubi Chakra left in his body, he no longer see Hagoromo, even though he continue to replenish Six Paths Chakra.

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This also explains how Hagoromo possessed one TSB prior to becoming the Juubi Jinchuriki.

Truth Seeking Orbs are awakened by Jinchurikis with Six Paths Sage Chakra. The number of Bijuu (Gedo Mazo included) corresponds to the number of TSB awakened.

At this point, Hagoromo's chakra already contains that of the Nine Tails.

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Naruto with just base Six Paths Sage Mode had the fox-slitted pupils in his eyes, even without direct link to Kurama. This is because the chakra the Yang seal supplies contains Kyuubi chakra as well.

So instead of Six Paths Sage Mode, it could be more appropriately named Sage of Six Paths Mode (both translates to Rikudou Sennin Modo) as in "Hagoromo mode", the difference being the Kyuubi Chakra.

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Lastly, this also explains how Ashura had a KCM-like yellow avatar that does not look like Kurama. By receiving all of Hagoromo's chakra, he possess the same element that makes Kurama the only Bijuu that has an avatar instead of Bijuu transformation.

How Naruto Lost Six Paths Chakra

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Naruto first got Six Paths Chakra from Obito, whom extracted a small amount of Six Paths Sage Chakra from Madara. This is confirmed later by Kakashi when he got taken over by Obito.

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Obito also extracted half of the Nine Tails for Naruto, which is how he ended up meeting Hagoromo.

When Hagoromo's right palm meets Naruto, the Sun seal, which symbolizes Six Paths Yang Power, was transferred to Naruto's palm.

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When Kaguya uses Byakugan, she saw a massive amount of chakra from his right palm, which she identified as Hagoromo's Chakra. This means that the seal is the source of Six Paths Chakra for Naruto.

She also identified Sasuke's Chakra as Hamura's, which mean it is also an example of Six Paths Chakra.

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However, after Six Paths Chibaku Tensei was cast, the two seals returned back to Hagoromo's palms. Even then, there are still residual chakra left inside their bodies, which is why he could still go into Six Paths Sage Mode afterwards in Valley of the End.

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However, after the fight, Naruto used every bit of his chakra left in his body, to the point where even Kurama lost consciousness for supplying chakra.

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Unlike Madara and Sasuke, who both cultivated Hashirama's DNA to produce Six Paths Chakra with their own cells, Naruto was given Six Paths Chakra directly by Obito. Without the DNA of an Indra's reincarnate, he is unable to replenish Six Paths Chakra by himself.

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In the Boruto databook Zai no Sho, Sasuke was stated to be equal to Naruto by lore. Realistically speaking, Naruto who gained the other half of Kurama and Hashirama's cells is definitely more powerful than Sasuke who lost the Bijuu Chakra and his dominant arm. Only a significant difference, such as Naruto's lacking Six Paths, can possibly justify this massive gap in power.

How Naruto Regained Six Paths Chakra

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As the progenitor of Chakra, the Ten Tails possesses all chakra, including that of Hagoromo. This is why all Juubi Jinchuriki was able to use Six Paths Senjutsu, and Truth Seeking Orbs.

The Juubi is also made up of the Chakra of 1 to 9 Tails and Gedo Mazo, the Ten Tails' husk.

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All Tailed Beasts have an associated Kekkei Genkai chakra nature, a combination of two basic elements. The confirmed chakra natures are:

  • Shukaku 1-Tails: Magnet Release (Wind + Lightning)
  • Son Goku 4-Tails: Lava Release (Earth + Lightning)
  • Kokuo 5-Tails: Boil Release (Fire + Water)

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With 5 basic elemental chakra natures, there is a total of 5C2 = 10 Kekkei Genkai elemental combinations of chakra natures. Each of the nine Bijuu, including the Juubi husk, had a Kekkei Genkai. Also in the form of a God Tree, the Gedo Mazo got Wood Release, the combination of Water and Earth. It could even be manipulated by Shin: Jukai Kotan, a Wood Release Jutsu.

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Together, the ten Kekkei Genkai corresponds to the ten Truth Seeking Orbs behind the backs of the Juubi Jinchuriki, including Hagoromo. Naruto lacking the Gedo Mazo is why he only had nine.

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While he does not have the Juubi husk, he obtained the Wood Release Kekkei Genkai by infusing himself with Hashirama's cells, although the fusion does not happen right away. Naruto only gain its cellular regeneration when he was adult. By combining the Tailed Beasts' Kekkei Genkai and his own new Wood Kekkei Genkai, he can go into Six Paths Sage Mode.

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This is also confirmed in the novel Shikamaru Shinden that Naruto is the Jinchuriki of the Ten Tails "in a manner of speaking". And because of that he possesses Six Paths Chakra just like Obito.

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This also explains why Naruto no longer uses Six Paths Sage Mode in base, that is without going into Kurama Link Mode at the same time. (Although it is more of Bijuu Link Mode now since it links to not just Kurama anymore).

With just Wood Release and without the access to the chakra of the other nine Kekkei Genkai elements, he could only access his regular Toad Sage Mode.

What Naruto Never Regained

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While Naruto can combine the Six Paths Chakra from his palm with the Bijuu chakra for elemental release, the chakra itself is by default, Yin-Yang Release, or chakra in its purest form.

Without Six Paths Yang Power, he no longer possesses Yin-Yang Release, even though he still get Six Paths Chakra from the Bijuu.

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Similarly, Truth Seeking Orbs are also a Yin-Yang Release Jutsu, hence Naruto could no longer use them.

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This is visually reflected on his cloak, that Naruto no longer have the "Six Paths" symbol on his back. This symbol also appears on the back of Hagoromo, Hamura, and both Juubi Jinchuriki. It also appears on Hagoromo's forehead, and the forehead of the avatar behind Hagoromo when transferring the seals.

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Even Obito is able to awaken one Truth Seeking Orb after stealing just a little bit of Madara's Six Paths Sage Chakra. This is reflected on the "Sun" end of his Six Paths Sakujo, that he still has Six Paths Yang Power within him.

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Meanwhile, Naruto has never seen with either ends of Six Paths Sakujo. This is because unlike the Juubi Jinchuriki, his Six Paths Yang Power comes from the seal, and he does not possess it within his own body.

Conclusion

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In terms of chakra:

Sage of Six Paths

= Sage + Hagoromo

= Sage + Six Paths + Kyuubi

= Sage + Indra + Asura + Kyuubi

= 1-8, Gedo Mazo + Kyuubi

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GXrevs06

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#1  Edited By GXrevs06

Can someone explain difference between this SPSM...

No Caption Provided

and this SPMS

No Caption Provided

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MyGod000

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Nice, Seem Pretty good to me.

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TheVivas

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Naruto and Sauske didn’t lose Six Paths chakra after the sealed Kaguya. Sasuke not making PS to save Sakura from Shin’s knives in no way at all proves he doesn’t have Six Paths chakra and *couldn’t* create PS to save Sakura (ignoring that that story was filled with PIS).

This “theory” made some points without ever backing them up. Not sure what to make of it.

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TheVivas

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@gxrevs06: One’s using a chakra cloak and one isn’t..?

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SPsamurai

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@gxrevs06: The first ones SPSM. The second ones SPSM combined with KCM. SPSM doesn't have a chakra Cloak.

Six paths sage mode. No sage mode user in Naruto had a chakra cloak

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Revold

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@thevivas said:

Naruto and Sauske didn’t lose Six Paths chakra after the sealed Kaguya. Sasuke not making PS to save Sakura from Shin’s knives in no way at all proves he doesn’t have Six Paths chakra and *couldn’t* create PS to save Sakura (ignoring that that story was filled with PIS).

This “theory” made some points without ever backing them up. Not sure what to make of it.

Actually I agree with you, thanks for the input. I've updated the post, feel free to point out any more unbacked points.

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Supermanforever

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This is straight up pointless thread because yes he has and it has been shown.

He has not lost his powers, nor did he regain it. He had it all the time.

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Revold

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This is straight up pointless thread because yes he has and it has been shown.

He has not lost his powers, nor did he regain it. He had it all the time.

He wasn't in SPSM in the Last instead he was in regular Sage Mode. That already mean that he didn't have Six Paths Chakra. The "Six Paths" in SPSM is not something that he can choose to activate at will, as long as you have Six Paths Chakra the Sage Mode you have becomes Six Paths Sage Mode. But even if we ignore this fact Naruto had no reason to hold back against Toneri who captured Hinata and threatened to destroy Earth.

All those I wrote can explain two things:

  • Why Naruto didn't have SPSM in the Last
  • Why Naruto didn't have SPSM in base (without Kurama Link Mode) in the Boruto era

Not to mention this theory isn't built on air/reverse-engineered to derive the conclusions stated above. It has its own logical explanation as to why Naruto couldn't replenish Six Paths Chakra himself due to losing the source of Yang seal, and then gain it through another means of essentially obtaining the Ten-Tails' chakra. Every claim made in the post is backed by more than one evidence if not simply directly shown true.

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ourmanuel

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#9  Edited By ourmanuel

@gxrevs06: the first one is just him using Six paths mode

The second one is him using six paths mode and Kyuubi chakra mode.

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@revold:

except we know he still has six paths mode based on his fight with momoshiki

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Supermanforever

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@revold:

He wasn't in SPSM in the Last instead he was in regular Sage Mode.

The last is not even a manga based. They literaly did an animation movie and it had terribly amount of wrong animation. Same way they literaly missed to draw Sasukes rinnegan at one time. So them completely messing up the animation of Naruto is nothing to be bothered about.

Maybe in the future of boruto manga we will have a prequel story and we will know what really happenes. Also its not strange that Naruto can just enter normal sage mode. Does not need to be six path sage mode to outright confirm anything.

That already mean that he didn't have Six Paths Chakra.

That is to weak of an argument to say he didnt have. You cant base an entire argument on a flawed animation that missed Sasukes rinnegan.

The "Six Paths" in SPSM is not something that he can choose to activate at will, as long as you have Six Paths Chakra the Sage Mode you have becomes Six Paths Sage Mode.

Show me when this has been confirmed anywhere. I dont see a single reason why he wouldnt be able to just enter sage mode.

This has never been confirmed or stated anywhere in the manga or outside.

But even if we ignore this fact Naruto had no reason to hold back against Toneri who captured Hinata and threatened to destroy Earth.

He didnt hold back. First time they met each other he was caught ofguard with Toneris attack and was put to sleep. Toneri is a formidable opponent.

Second time they fought on the moon, he lolstomped Toneri easily even without using any six path powers. Also again they might have drawn the animation wrong as i gave example of bad animation in that movie.

Not to mention this theory isn't built on air/reverse-engineered to derive the conclusions stated above

Six path chakra is nothing you lose once gained it, unless you lets say get drained or something. Thats like saying Sasuke lost his rinnegan for some reason.

He never lost his powers and there is literaly 0 sense in why he would lose it and how.

It has its own logical explanation as to why Naruto couldn't replenish Six Paths Chakra himself due to losing the source of Yang seal

Why would he lose powers from using yang seal? Also what yang seal are you talking about? the one they used on Kaguya? he was fighting Sasuke later on and he clearly had six path powers including six path sage mode.

and then gain it through another means of essentially obtaining the Ten-Tails' chakra.

He does not have ten tails chakra. He is Jinchuriki of 9 tails and has potion of the chakra of all beasts. Juubi himself is different from all tailed beasts. First of all he has combined chakra of all the beasts and he himself is like a natural energy. Other tailed beasts arent like him.

Every claim made in the post is backed by more than one evidence if not simply directly shown true.

Not really. There is not single reason or any scan showing that he was not capable of using six path powers and sage mode in the last movie. Considering the manitude of Tenseigan and Toneris powers, i highly doubt Naruto in kcm mode alone would be able to deal with Toneri. It was likely animation misstakes like the example with rinnegan.

Other than that there is nothing really proving he lost his powers.

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Revold

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@revold:

except we know he still has six paths mode based on his fight with momoshiki

Yeah that's only in Kurama Link Mode when he has access to the Bijuu chakra. His new source of Six Paths Chakra is like the Ten Tails' Jinchuriki, except with Hashirama's Kekkei Genkai Wood Release in place of the Gedo Mazo.

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Revold

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@revold:

He wasn't in SPSM in the Last instead he was in regular Sage Mode.

The last is not even a manga based. They literaly did an animation movie and it had terribly amount of wrong animation. Same way they literaly missed to draw Sasukes rinnegan at one time. So them completely messing up the animation of Naruto is nothing to be bothered about.

Maybe in the future of boruto manga we will have a prequel story and we will know what really happenes. Also its not strange that Naruto can just enter normal sage mode. Does not need to be six path sage mode to outright confirm anything.

It has been officially dubbed chapter 699.5 and interviews with Kishimoto confirmed that it's canon. One wrong animation does not invalidate the rest of the movie though. While Sasuke's Rinnegan is in fact a wrong animation, Naruto's BSM is actually confirmed in the databook, so unless you can think of any direct contradiction I see no reason to dismiss it.

That already mean that he didn't have Six Paths Chakra.

That is to weak of an argument to say he didnt have. You cant base an entire argument on a flawed animation that missed Sasukes rinnegan.

The "Six Paths" in SPSM is not something that he can choose to activate at will, as long as you have Six Paths Chakra the Sage Mode you have becomes Six Paths Sage Mode.

Show me when this has been confirmed anywhere. I dont see a single reason why he wouldnt be able to just enter sage mode.

This has never been confirmed or stated anywhere in the manga or outside.

Six Paths Sage Mode is not a power given by Hagoromo, but one awakened by Naruto himself as a result of receiving Six Paths Chakra on top of already having Sage Mode. It's like saying Sasuke can switch between his Rinnegan and EMS on his left eye, when the Rinnegan IS that EMS but evolved. Similarly, SPSM IS Naruto's Sage Mode for that time being.

Even if you don't want to accept this, it makes no sense for Naruto to go regular SM if he already has SPSM as you said. There is no downsides like taking more chakra etc.

But even if we ignore this fact Naruto had no reason to hold back against Toneri who captured Hinata and threatened to destroy Earth.

He didnt hold back. First time they met each other he was caught ofguard with Toneris attack and was put to sleep. Toneri is a formidable opponent.

Second time they fought on the moon, he lolstomped Toneri easily even without using any six path powers. Also again they might have drawn the animation wrong as i gave example of bad animation in that movie.

I no longer understand your stand on whether it is an animation error or not, but since I already addressed that above I'm assuming you agree with me here.

Whether Naruto end up stomping Toneri without Six Paths is not the issue here. Toneri rekt him, stole his girlfirend, stole his girlfriend's sister's eyes and yet he hold back SPSM? Like I said there is no downsides to SPSM even if he could activate both.

Not to mention this theory isn't built on air/reverse-engineered to derive the conclusions stated above

Six path chakra is nothing you lose once gained it, unless you lets say get drained or something. Thats like saying Sasuke lost his rinnegan for some reason.

He never lost his powers and there is literaly 0 sense in why he would lose it and how.

How is losing Six Paths Chakra and losing Rinnegan the same thing? It's like saying you can't lose chakra because you can't lose Sharingan? You are comparing an exhastable energy reserve with a physical organ. Six Paths Chakra is just chakra at the end of the day, and it can be exhasted/finished using. Yes they replenish chakra from their chakra nodes, but that won't be Six Paths Chakra as it was externally acquired. Once they lose the seals as the source they lose access to replenishing Six Paths Chakra. But the Rinnegan that has already evolved won't go devolving just because you no longer has that chakra.

It has its own logical explanation as to why Naruto couldn't replenish Six Paths Chakra himself due to losing the source of Yang seal

Why would he lose powers from using yang seal? Also what yang seal are you talking about? the one they used on Kaguya? he was fighting Sasuke later on and he clearly had six path powers including six path sage mode.

If you have read my OP, I already said the seal is their source of Six Paths Chakra back then. Losing the seal doesn't mean you immediately lose Six Paths Chakra, it means you lost the means of replenishing any new Six Paths Chakra if you run out. There are still Six Paths Chakra in their bodies in VOTE, which they have shown to have fully exhasted after their fight.

and then gain it through another means of essentially obtaining the Ten-Tails' chakra.

He does not have ten tails chakra. He is Jinchuriki of 9 tails and has potion of the chakra of all beasts. Juubi himself is different from all tailed beasts. First of all he has combined chakra of all the beasts and he himself is like a natural energy. Other tailed beasts arent like him.

Whether the Juubi/Bijuu is natural energy or not concerns the Sage Chakra aspect of the Juubi Jinchuriki, not the Six Paths aspect. The difference between Juubi and the 1-9 tails combined is the chakra in Gedo Mazo. In place of that is Hashirama's Wood Release Kekkei Genkai. From here on it's a long explanation which I have listed in the OP, you should debunk me from there.

Every claim made in the post is backed by more than one evidence if not simply directly shown true.

Not really. There is not single reason or any scan showing that he was not capable of using six path powers and sage mode in the last movie. Considering the manitude of Tenseigan and Toneris powers, i highly doubt Naruto in kcm mode alone would be able to deal with Toneri. It was likely animation misstakes like the example with rinnegan.

Other than that there is nothing really proving he lost his powers.

Naruto had the full Kurama Mode in the Last, not to mention he focused all his chakra on his arm to become extra durable block. With just half of Kurama his Bijuu dama was country level. The biggest thing Toneri's beam did was splitting a Moon, a feat no more impressive than destroying a continent?

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Kalebsmarty156

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#14  Edited By Kalebsmarty156

You should read the shikimaru novel...

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Adi_Frost

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#15  Edited By Adi_Frost

@revold said:
@supermanforever said:

This is straight up pointless thread because yes he has and it has been shown.

He has not lost his powers, nor did he regain it. He had it all the time.

He wasn't in SPSM in the Last instead he was in regular Sage Mode. That already mean that he didn't have Six Paths Chakra. The "Six Paths" in SPSM is not something that he can choose to activate at will, as long as you have Six Paths Chakra the Sage Mode you have becomes Six Paths Sage Mode. But even if we ignore this fact Naruto had no reason to hold back against Toneri who captured Hinata and threatened to destroy Earth.

All those I wrote can explain two things:

  • Why Naruto didn't have SPSM in the Last
  • Why Naruto didn't have SPSM in base (without Kurama Link Mode) in the Boruto era

Not to mention this theory isn't built on air/reverse-engineered to derive the conclusions stated above. It has its own logical explanation as to why Naruto couldn't replenish Six Paths Chakra himself due to losing the source of Yang seal, and then gain it through another means of essentially obtaining the Ten-Tails' chakra. Every claim made in the post is backed by more than one evidence if not simply directly shown true.

Him not using sage of six paths MODE in the last doesn't translate to him not having it. He didn't need it.
Also, he was using sage of six paths chakra to a very minimal extent as you can see he was flying around the moon. He just didn't go full sage of six paths MODE.

He just didn't need it as the fight was basically over. They got Hinata back, Hanabi back, everything was safe and secure and beating Toneri was the only thing left to do.

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Revold

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You should read the shikimaru novel...

Erm your point? What am I missing out on

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Kalebsmarty156

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#17  Edited By Kalebsmarty156

@revold: The novel said something about him basically being a psuedo juubi jinchuriki and still have his power he was giving by the sage of six paths. I screenshoted someone else quoting that part from the novel.

EDIT: not that it matters, since I don't know if shinden novels are canon or not :/

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Revold

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@revold said:
@supermanforever said:

This is straight up pointless thread because yes he has and it has been shown.

He has not lost his powers, nor did he regain it. He had it all the time.

He wasn't in SPSM in the Last instead he was in regular Sage Mode. That already mean that he didn't have Six Paths Chakra. The "Six Paths" in SPSM is not something that he can choose to activate at will, as long as you have Six Paths Chakra the Sage Mode you have becomes Six Paths Sage Mode. But even if we ignore this fact Naruto had no reason to hold back against Toneri who captured Hinata and threatened to destroy Earth.

All those I wrote can explain two things:

  • Why Naruto didn't have SPSM in the Last
  • Why Naruto didn't have SPSM in base (without Kurama Link Mode) in the Boruto era

Not to mention this theory isn't built on air/reverse-engineered to derive the conclusions stated above. It has its own logical explanation as to why Naruto couldn't replenish Six Paths Chakra himself due to losing the source of Yang seal, and then gain it through another means of essentially obtaining the Ten-Tails' chakra. Every claim made in the post is backed by more than one evidence if not simply directly shown true.

Him not using sage of six paths MODE in the last doesn't translate to him not having it. He didn't need it.

Also, he was using sage of six paths chakra to a very minimal extent as you can see he was flying around the moon. He just didn't go full sage of six paths MODE.

He just didn't need it as the fight was basically over. They got Hinata back, Hanabi back, everything was safe and secure and beating Toneri was the only thing left to do.

SPSM is Naruto's new Sage Mode when he got Six Paths Chakra, it's the same thing but enhanced, so he shouldn't be able to go toad Sage Mode when he has Six Paths Chakra. Even if we pretend that he can, there is no reason for him to go toad Sage Mode, even if he thinks that he don't need it, because there is no downsides to SPSM. Not to mention Naruto had no idea if he needs it or not after Toneri defeated him, nor did he have any reason to hold back when Hinata was being kidnapped.

You are thinking he used Six Paths Senjutsu in toad Sage Mode? That's just factually wrong. He simply didn't use Six Paths Senjutsu to fly, he was using the force of the Rasengan to propel himself through the low-gravity environment.

Whether he end up getting everything back is irrelevant. Naruto didn't know if he could before the fight, nor if he had any reason to care. Why would he hold back when he can secure Hinata'a safety more quickly? Why would he hold back then SPSM literally has no downsides compared to toad SM?

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Green_Tea

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Naruto fans and their data books lol

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ourmanuel

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Him not using 6 paths in the last is just an inconsistency thing.

Lol

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Revold

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#21  Edited By Revold

@kalebsmarty156 said:

@revold: The novel said something about him basically being a psuedo juubi jinchuriki and still have his power he was giving by the sage of six paths. I screenshoted someone else quoting that part from the novel.

EDIT: not that it matters, since I don't know if shinden novels are canon or not :/

Oh yea thanks for the heads up. This novel is endorsed by Kishimoto like Naruto Shinden, and that novel is being adapted into the Boruto anime, so I agree that it is canon. It actually confirms my theory about Naruto's new source of Six Paths Chakra is similar in a sense to Juubito as the Ten Tails' Jinchuriki. I've included the extract in my OP you can check it out. @supermanforever

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#22  Edited By Kalebsmarty156
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Supermanforever

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@revold:

It has been officially dubbed chapter 699.5 and interviews with Kishimoto confirmed that it's canon. One wrong animation does not invalidate the rest of the movie though. While Sasuke's Rinnegan is in fact a wrong animation, Naruto's BSM is actually confirmed in the databook, so unless you can think of any direct contradiction I see no reason to dismiss it.

So you agree that the animation was bad? So there is a high chance of it being animation misstakes right? Naruto being in bm confirmed in databooks does not prove why he does not use 6 path powers. Databook in itself is highly inconsistent and really a big unreliable source.

The contradiction is that he just didnt use it, simple as that. Not to mention that Naruto was flying in the last which is very reliable reason as of why he still has the powers. Because six path senjutsu in itself was the reason why he was able to fly.

Six Paths Sage Mode is not a power given by Hagoromo, but one awakened by Naruto himself as a result of receiving Six Paths Chakra on top of already having Sage Mode. It's like saying Sasuke can switch between his Rinnegan and EMS on his left eye, when the Rinnegan IS that EMS but evolved. Similarly, SPSM IS Naruto's Sage Mode for that time being.

I know how Naruto awakened six path sage mode. That was not the point. Point was that once he has that six path chakra. He has it forever unless someone drains him from it. Sasuke can not switch between his eyes because once the eye turns into a rinnegan. Its rinnegan forever.

Even if you don't want to accept this, it makes no sense for Naruto to go regular SM if he already has SPSM as you said. There is no downsides like taking more chakra etc.

There are alot of things that dont make sense in the verse. That doesnt really matter. He didnt use it? Yeah he didnt. Why? who knows why. Making him conspiracy theories does not make any point. He didnt use it simple as that.

I no longer understand your stand on whether it is an animation error or not, but since I already addressed that above I'm assuming you agree with me here.

I dont know either. No one knows. Could be animation problem, could be that he just didnt use it. But surely he didnt lose those powers. Because there literaly is not reason as of why he would lose. But since he could use flight its actually a fact.

Whether Naruto end up stomping Toneri without Six Paths is not the issue here. Toneri rekt him, stole his girlfirend, stole his girlfriend's sister's eyes and yet he hold back SPSM? Like I said there is no downsides to SPSM even if he could activate both.

If he did stomp him, why bother anyway? Just because you fight someone does not mean you go all out right away. Same way Naruto could have lolstomped Shin when he was attacked alongside Sasuke. He didnt imediately go all out despite the fact that he could have just gotten into kurama mode, protect Sarada and Sasuke and literaly step on Shin.

That is no proof to this argument.

How is losing Six Paths Chakra and losing Rinnegan the same thing? It's like saying you can't lose chakra because you can't lose Sharingan?

Six path chakra is the reason rinnegan is awakened in the first place.

You are comparing an exhastable energy reserve with a physical organ. Six Paths Chakra is just chakra at the end of the day, and it can be exhasted/finished using.

That is the same way you draw a comparrision. You see when i tell you that Sasuke would lose his powers. It does not make any sense? Clearly. Also give me a single reason how Naruto recovers his six path chakra if he even lost it? this is competlely hyperbolic statment.

He has six path chakra in the first place because he has chakra of all tailed beasts. What are you saying that between shipuden and next denegerations he was drained of the beasts and then recovered them? This is just staright up dumb.

Yes they replenish chakra from their chakra nodes, but that won't be Six Paths Chakra as it was externally acquired. Once they lose the seals as the source they lose access to replenishing Six Paths Chakra.

Are you talking about shadow and light seals? That has nothing to do with their six path pwers lol. Shadow and light seals is just a jutsu Six path gave them.

Naruto got six path chakra by recieving all of the tailed beasts chakra and awakened rikudou senjutsu. Sasuke got rinnegan by fusing sage chakra from kabuto and Uchiha eyes and awakened rinnegan the same way Madara did.

But the Rinnegan that has already evolved won't go devolving just because you no longer has that chakra.

i know that.

If you have read my OP, I already said the seal is their source of Six Paths Chakra back then.

Nope. the seals is just a jutsu Six path gave them to seal Kaguya. The chakra in itself was reached by merging the chakra of all beasts. Obito flat out said that he took out shukaku and gyuki from Madara to give Naruto the only chakra that is missing and we know that once they have all the chakra of the beasts the person awakens Rikudou senjutsu.

Sasuke himself got six path chakra because Kabuto gave him senjutu and with his EMS and uchiha chakra he was able to awaken rinnegan. The shadow and light styles six path have them was a different thing.

Losing the seal doesn't mean you immediately lose Six Paths Chakra, it means you lost the means of replenishing any new SixPaths Chakra if you run out.

Prove this point. This was not stated anywhere. Sasuke and Naruto had sealed Kaguya and the seals dissapeared. Later on they both had six path powers. Unless Naruto was drained from the beasts he wouldnt lose the chakra.

There are still Six Paths Chakra in their bodies in VOTE, which they have shown to have fully exhasted after their fight.

Six path chakra is just evolving of their chakra. Once they have this chakra it is always there. SMH. It is not like some kind of special chakra that once used dissapears and you start using your own chakra.

Whether the Juubi/Bijuu is natural energy or not concerns the Sage Chakra aspect of the Juubi Jinchuriki, not the Six Paths aspect.

there is no whether or not. He is natural energy. There is not such thing as sage chakra. There is sage mode and there is senjutsu chakra. Also False The junchuriki of ten tails automatically recieves rikudou senjutsu aka narutos six path powers.

I also never stated that sage mode and rikudou senjusu were the same thing.

The difference between Juubi and the 1-9 tails combined is the chakra in Gedo Mazo.

There clearly is a difference as the ten tails is an entity by himself.

In place of that is Hashirama's Wood Release Kekkei Genkai. From here on it's a long explanation which I have listed in the OP, you should debunk me from there.

What has this to do with anything?

Naruto had the full Kurama Mode in the Last, not to mention he focused all his chakra on his arm to become extra durable block.

Yeah and?

With just half of Kurama his Bijuu dama was country level.

So? Naruto in the last with just chakra cloak survived moon splitter which is above juubidama.

The biggest thing Toneri's beam did was splitting a Moon, a feat no more impressive than destroying a continent?

I hope you are joking. Toneri cutting the moon trumps any juubidama and its way above continent level.

Overall my point stands. Literaly nothing explained on actual facts of why he lost his powers. Instead bunch of speculations and conspiracy.

Also the fact that he could fly on the moon just puts the cherry on the cake.

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Adi_Frost

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@revold: All you are doing is making head-canon. Just because there is no downside doesn't mean he has to use it.
What are the facts.

1. Naruto used sage of six paths chakra to fly.

2. Naruto used toad sage mode in his fight against toneri. Evident with the pigmentation around his eyes.

3. Naruto used nine tails cloak as well. Evident with the glowing skin that he has in his bijuu mode or KCM mode.

"He simply didn't use Six Paths Senjutsu to fly, he was using the force of the Rasengan to propel himself through the low-gravity environment."

Head canon and factually wrong. We see Naruto floating while he talks to toneri and then flying towards him multiple times in his fight. He didn't use the rasengan.

"SPSM is Naruto's new Sage Mode when he got Six Paths Chakra, it's the same thing but enhanced, so he shouldn't be able to go toad Sage Mode when he has Six Paths Chakra"

Factually wrong again. Toad sage mode can be used even after his sage of six paths boost in the war arc. The shin uchiha arc proves it as Naruto uses toad sage mode in it.

No Caption Provided



These are irrefutable facts of the movie.

Now his form proves that he combines toad sage mode with bijuu mode like he has done in the war arc before he got his SOSP boost.

The mode is exactly that and saying that it isn't is just headcanon which has 0 facts to back it up.

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Adi_Frost

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Him not using 6 paths in the last is just an inconsistency thing.

Lol

That's just a head canon. It was consistently shown to be BSM mode with the usage of sage of six paths chakra. It was not an animation mistake and there is nothing to suggest it's an inconsistency either.

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ourmanuel

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@adi_frost:

“BSM mode with the usage of sage of six paths chakra.”

No it wasn’t.....He was shown using BSM as is obvious from the markings around his eye.

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@ourmanuel: That is what I said too. I just mean't he was using flight as well.
Sorry if I didn't put it clearly

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Naruto even in the boruto era still has that weird black stuff he got after getting six paths sage mode.

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BatmanPlusJay

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#30  Edited By BatmanPlusJay

@ourmanuel said:

@adi_frost:

“BSM mode with the usage of sage of six paths chakra.”

No it wasn’t.....He was shown using BSM as is obvious from the markings around his eye.

Why do people say that stupid shit. That's like saying "Goku was in Super Saiyan 3 with the usage of Super Saiyan Blue ki". Tf

And him not using SPSM in the last wasn't an inconsostency. It was intentional.

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@batmanplusjay: I know it sounds weird but then how do you explain Naruto's flight ?
Or you think it was just the anime trope of characters staying in air and moving in air for a lot of time even though they can't really fly

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Naruto even in the boruto era still has that weird black stuff he got after getting six paths sage mode.

Hey, that's actually a nice catch. I never saw that.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@adi_frost: All we know is Naruto was granted flight upon getting SPSM. That doesn't mean his flight is only restricted to his SPSM. It likely enhanced his base form. It doesn't contradict anything because nothing ever stated he can only fly in SPSM, just that he got flight with SPSM.

Like a car coming with a manual, you're not only restricted to reading the manual in the car only, right?

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Revold

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@revold:

It has been officially dubbed chapter 699.5 and interviews with Kishimoto confirmed that it's canon. One wrong animation does not invalidate the rest of the movie though. While Sasuke's Rinnegan is in fact a wrong animation, Naruto's BSM is actually confirmed in the databook, so unless you can think of any direct contradiction I see no reason to dismiss it.

So you agree that the animation was bad? So there is a high chance of it being animation misstakes right? Naruto being in bm confirmed in databooks does not prove why he does not use 6 path powers. Databook in itself is highly inconsistent and really a big unreliable source.

The contradiction is that he just didnt use it, simple as that. Not to mention that Naruto was flying in the last which is very reliable reason as of why he still has the powers. Because six path senjutsu in itself was the reason why he was able to fly.

In this particular case, no there is almost no chance of it being an animation mistake because the databook confirmed it. The burden of proof lies on you or else we default to it being true. "He just didn't use it" isn't a contradiction by any sense of the word. You didn't even bother to back up your claim with any logical reasoning why he didn't use it, despite not being to use it makes more sense due to the context I have already stated. Lastly, you are claiming that he could use Six Paths Senjursu in regular toad Sage Mode, which makes absolutely no sense. Him "flying" isn't a definitive proof, as if it is the only Jutsu in existence that allows one to fly. Like I said he was on the Moon, which weakens your argument even more since he could be just floating under low gravity, or using certain Jutsu to propel himself that he otherwise couldn't on Earth.

Six Paths Sage Mode is not a power given by Hagoromo, but one awakened by Naruto himself as a result of receiving Six Paths Chakra on top of already having Sage Mode. It's like saying Sasuke can switch between his Rinnegan and EMS on his left eye, when the Rinnegan IS that EMS but evolved. Similarly, SPSM IS Naruto's Sage Mode for that time being.

I know how Naruto awakened six path sage mode. That was not the point. Point was that once he has that six path chakra. He has it forever unless someone drains him from it. Sasuke can not switch between his eyes because once the eye turns into a rinnegan. Its rinnegan forever.

My point was that SPSM and SM aren't two different abilities that Naruto can switch back and forth into. SPSM is just the evolved form of SM, so either Naruto possesses Six Paths Chakra and has SPSM, or he doesn't and has SM.

Naruto performing Jutsu drains chakra too, it doesn't have to be drained by someone else. But if it makes you feel better, the last of Naruto's chakra was in fact drained by Sasuke in VOTE, before Kurama has to supply him more.

Yea the Rinnegan can't be reverted. But the Rinnegan is a physical organ, while SPSM is a MODE. The "Six Paths" in "Six Paths Sage Mode" literally tells you that it is Six Paths Chakra enhanced, while the Rinnegan could be used by one without Six Paths Chakra like Nagato perfectly fine.

Even if you don't want to accept this, it makes no sense for Naruto to go regular SM if he already has SPSM as you said. There is no downsides like taking more chakra etc.

There are alot of things that dont make sense in the verse. That doesnt really matter. He didnt use it? Yeah he didnt. Why? who knows why. Making him conspiracy theories does not make any point. He didnt use it simple as that.

So you can't make sense of the verse, but yet is able to assert that I'm wrong? I came up with this theory precisely is to help you make sense of what you couldn't before. You pointing out what COULD be wrong with my theory, and later find things makes no sense? That just means those things you pointed out wasn't wrong after all. If only you can relax your preconceived notions of the verse can you treat the matter with a more open mind.

I no longer understand your stand on whether it is an animation error or not, but since I already addressed that above I'm assuming you agree with me here.

I dont know either. No one knows. Could be animation problem, could be that he just didnt use it. But surely he didnt lose those powers. Because there literaly is not reason as of why he would lose. But since he could use flight its actually a fact.

The reason why he lost Six Paths Chakra is because he lost its source: the Yang seal, and the remaining chakra left in his body after his fight against Sasuke. "Using flight" is by no means a proof as that is not exclusive to Six Paths Senjutsu. Being in toad SM just confirms that fact. If you want to claim that its an animation problem even though the databook states it as well, prove it by other means. The logic doesn't flow the other way.

Whether Naruto end up stomping Toneri without Six Paths is not the issue here. Toneri rekt him, stole his girlfirend, stole his girlfriend's sister's eyes and yet he hold back SPSM? Like I said there is no downsides to SPSM even if he could activate both.

If he did stomp him, why bother anyway? Just because you fight someone does not mean you go all out right away. Same way Naruto could have lolstomped Shin when he was attacked alongside Sasuke. He didnt imediately go all out despite the fact that he could have just gotten into kurama mode, protect Sarada and Sasuke and literaly step on Shin.

That is no proof to this argument.

Why bother? Naruto didn't know that he could've won with just BSM, especially after he got defeated by Toneri, whom he has no idea how strong. Toneri took Hinata away from him, Naruto didn't know if he could save her or the Earth in time. So tell me again, why didn't he use SPSM?

How is the context of Shin any more urgent than Toneri? Toneri was literally going to destroy Earth. What was Shin going to do? Just to let you know, all this is not to prove my argument, because I stand that he couldn't switch between SPSM and SM even if he wanted to. All this is to disprove your argument.

How is losing Six Paths Chakra and losing Rinnegan the same thing? It's like saying you can't lose chakra because you can't lose Sharingan?

Six path chakra is the reason rinnegan is awakened in the first place.

And... this has nothing to do with what I said. You can lose the chakra but not the physical organ, whether the chakra awakened it is really not the issue here.

You are comparing an exhastable energy reserve with a physical organ. Six Paths Chakra is just chakra at the end of the day, and it can be exhasted/finished using.

That is the same way you draw a comparrision. You see when i tell you that Sasuke would lose his powers. It does not make any sense? Clearly. Also give me a single reason how Naruto recovers his six path chakra if he even lost it? this is competlely hyperbolic statment.

He has six path chakra in the first place because he has chakra of all tailed beasts. What are you saying that between shipuden and next denegerations he was drained of the beasts and then recovered them? This is just staright up dumb.

Huh? You can't exhast a Rinnegan = you can't exhast chakra? No that's not how I drew my comparison. My comparison was SPSM is enhanced version of SM, just like Rinnegan is enhanced EMS. My comparison makes sense but yours not really.

How Naruto recovered Six Paths Chakra? Read the OP. It is what the whole post is about after all.

What. I didn't say he drained the chakra of the Tailed Beasts. I said he drained the Six Paths chakra that he got from the yang seal.

Yes they replenish chakra from their chakra nodes, but that won't be Six Paths Chakra as it was externally acquired. Once they lose the seals as the source they lose access to replenishing Six Paths Chakra.

Are you talking about shadow and light seals? That has nothing to do with their six path pwers lol. Shadow and light seals is just a jutsu Six path gave them.

Naruto got six path chakra by recieving all of the tailed beasts chakra and awakened rikudou senjutsu. Sasuke got rinnegan by fusing sage chakra from kabuto and Uchiha eyes and awakened rinnegan the same way Madara did.

Yeah together they can cast Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. But the Yang seal is more than that. It also got Six Paths Yang Power from that seal which he can use to heal people with Yin-Yang release, which is chakra in its purest form. In fact, Kaguya even saw the chakra coming from Naruto's right palm, and figured it was Hagoromo's chakra.

You don't get Six Paths Chakra just by being the Jinchuriki of the nine Tailed Beasts, if you want to claim this please prove it. Obito extracted a small piece of Juubidara's Six Paths Sage chakra into Naruto which was what allow him to meet Hagoromo, nothing to do with the Tailed Beasts.

Sasuke got the Rinnegan not because of Sage Chakra. It is because Hashirama's DNA, as an Ashura reincarnate, meeting with Sasuke's DNA as a Indra reincarnate to produce Six Paths Chakra, which then awakens the Rinnegan in his EMS.

But the Rinnegan that has already evolved won't go devolving just because you no longer has that chakra.

i know that.

And yet you claim that six paths chakra won't be eventually used up just because the Rinnegan won't?

If you have read my OP, I already said the seal is their source of Six Paths Chakra back then.

Nope. the seals is just a jutsu Six path gave them to seal Kaguya. The chakra in itself was reached by merging the chakra of all beasts. Obito flat out said that he took out shukaku and gyuki from Madara to give Naruto the only chakra that is missing and we know that once they have all the chakra of the beasts the person awakens Rikudou senjutsu.

Sasuke himself got six path chakra because Kabuto gave him senjutu and with his EMS and uchiha chakra he was able to awaken rinnegan. The shadow and light styles six path have them was a different thing.

Shukaku and Gyuku isn't the only thing Obito took out. He also took out Six Paths Chakra, confirmed by Kakashi later, and Sage Chakra, which was confirmed by Madara. And also the Six Paths Sage Chakra is precisely how he reawakened one TSB as the staff, without possessing all nine Tailed Beasts. And TSB is a rikudou senjutsu technique, this is enough to disprove what you said already.

And you need to stop mixing up the concepts. Senjutsu has nothing to do with six paths or the awakening of the Rinnegan.

Losing the seal doesn't mean you immediately lose Six Paths Chakra, it means you lost the means of replenishing any new SixPaths Chakra if you run out.

Prove this point. This was not stated anywhere. Sasuke and Naruto had sealed Kaguya and the seals dissapeared. Later on they both had six path powers. Unless Naruto was drained from the beasts he wouldnt lose the chakra.

Wait what's the point you want me to prove here? Whether Naruto still has six paths chakra after losing the yang seal, or whether Naruto no longer has six paths chakra after his fight against Sasuke? Because the former was my point I was making in the previous post that you demanded prood, but the latter is what you are trying to claim.

There are still Six Paths Chakra in their bodies in VOTE, which they have shown to have fully exhasted after their fight.

Six path chakra is just evolving of their chakra. Once they have this chakra it is always there. SMH. It is not like some kind of special chakra that once used dissapears and you start using your own chakra.

Depends on how you got it. Naruto got the six paths chakra directly, so he still generate his own chakra. Sasuke and Madara got it from his cells being introduced Hashirama's DNA, so he will create Six Paths chakra from there onwards.

Whether the Juubi/Bijuu is natural energy or not concerns the Sage Chakra aspect of the Juubi Jinchuriki, not the Six Paths aspect.

there is no whether or not. He is natural energy. There is not such thing as sage chakra. There is sage mode and there is senjutsu chakra. Also False The junchuriki of ten tails automatically recieves rikudou senjutsu aka narutos six path powers.

I also never stated that sage mode and rikudou senjusu were the same thing.

What am i reading?? Yes he is natural energy. But that doesn't concern us because we are talking about Six Paths Chakra, not Sage/Senjutsu chakra whichever you like to call it.

Yeah the Jinchuriki of ten tails automatically (aka magically) gets Six Paths chakra. You need to work on debunking me rather than coming out with your own headcanon.

They are not the same thing, but neither are they contradictory, which was what you seemed to suggest.

The difference between Juubi and the 1-9 tails combined is the chakra in Gedo Mazo.

There clearly is a difference as the ten tails is an entity by himself.

I'm talking chakra wise. Do you know what we are even debating about?

In place of that is Hashirama's Wood Release Kekkei Genkai. From here on it's a long explanation which I have listed in the OP, you should debunk me from there.

What has this to do with anything?

Naruto had the full Kurama Mode in the Last, not to mention he focused all his chakra on his arm to become extra durable block.

Yeah and?

It seems like we are on totally different frequencies here. Why don't you look at what you said that I was replying to before you lost track of what we are debating about....

With just half of Kurama his Bijuu dama was country level.

So? Naruto in the last with just chakra cloak survived moon splitter which is above juubidama.

The biggest thing Toneri's beam did was splitting a Moon, a feat no more impressive than destroying a continent?

I hope you are joking. Toneri cutting the moon trumps any juubidama and its way above continent level.

Overall my point stands. Literaly nothing explained on actual facts of why he lost his powers. Instead bunch of speculations and conspiracy.

Also the fact that he could fly on the moon just puts the cherry on the cake.

Toneri moon splitting > juubidama is honestly just your opinion.

Dude your only argument why he was using SPSM in the Last all along is that he could fly. It's not the cherry it's the cake itself. I welcome you to give more evidence but so far that's just it.

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BatmanPlusJay

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@revold said:
@supermanforever said:

@revold:

It has been officially dubbed chapter 699.5 and interviews with Kishimoto confirmed that it's canon. One wrong animation does not invalidate the rest of the movie though. While Sasuke's Rinnegan is in fact a wrong animation, Naruto's BSM is actually confirmed in the databook, so unless you can think of any direct contradiction I see no reason to dismiss it.

So you agree that the animation was bad? So there is a high chance of it being animation misstakes right? Naruto being in bm confirmed in databooks does not prove why he does not use 6 path powers. Databook in itself is highly inconsistent and really a big unreliable source.

The contradiction is that he just didnt use it, simple as that. Not to mention that Naruto was flying in the last which is very reliable reason as of why he still has the powers. Because six path senjutsu in itself was the reason why he was able to fly.

In this particular case, no there is almost no chance of it being an animation mistake because the databook confirmed it. The burden of proof lies on you or else we default to it being true. "He just didn't use it" isn't a contradiction by any sense of the word. You didn't even bother to back up your claim with any logical reasoning why he didn't use it, despite not being to use it makes more sense due to the context I have already stated. Lastly, you are claiming that he could use Six Paths Senjursu in regular toad Sage Mode, which makes absolutely no sense. Him "flying" isn't a definitive proof, as if it is the only Jutsu in existence that allows one to fly. Like I said he was on the Moon, which weakens your argument even more since he could be just floating under low gravity, or using certain Jutsu to propel himself that he otherwise couldn't on Earth.

Six Paths Sage Mode is not a power given by Hagoromo, but one awakened by Naruto himself as a result of receiving Six Paths Chakra on top of already having Sage Mode. It's like saying Sasuke can switch between his Rinnegan and EMS on his left eye, when the Rinnegan IS that EMS but evolved. Similarly, SPSM IS Naruto's Sage Mode for that time being.

I know how Naruto awakened six path sage mode. That was not the point. Point was that once he has that six path chakra. He has it forever unless someone drains him from it. Sasuke can not switch between his eyes because once the eye turns into a rinnegan. Its rinnegan forever.

My point was that SPSM and SM aren't two different abilities that Naruto can switch back and forth into. SPSM is just the evolved form of SM, so either Naruto possesses Six Paths Chakra and has SPSM, or he doesn't and has SM.

Naruto performing Jutsu drains chakra too, it doesn't have to be drained by someone else. But if it makes you feel better, the last of Naruto's chakra was in fact drained by Sasuke in VOTE, before Kurama has to supply him more.

Yea the Rinnegan can't be reverted. But the Rinnegan is a physical organ, while SPSM is a MODE. The "Six Paths" in "Six Paths Sage Mode" literally tells you that it is Six Paths Chakra enhanced, while the Rinnegan could be used by one without Six Paths Chakra like Nagato perfectly fine.

Even if you don't want to accept this, it makes no sense for Naruto to go regular SM if he already has SPSM as you said. There is no downsides like taking more chakra etc.

There are alot of things that dont make sense in the verse. That doesnt really matter. He didnt use it? Yeah he didnt. Why? who knows why. Making him conspiracy theories does not make any point. He didnt use it simple as that.

So you can't make sense of the verse, but yet is able to assert that I'm wrong? I came up with this theory precisely is to help you make sense of what you couldn't before. You pointing out what COULD be wrong with my theory, and later find things makes no sense? That just means those things you pointed out wasn't wrong after all. If only you can relax your preconceived notions of the verse can you treat the matter with a more open mind.

I no longer understand your stand on whether it is an animation error or not, but since I already addressed that above I'm assuming you agree with me here.

I dont know either. No one knows. Could be animation problem, could be that he just didnt use it. But surely he didnt lose those powers. Because there literaly is not reason as of why he would lose. But since he could use flight its actually a fact.

The reason why he lost Six Paths Chakra is because he lost its source: the Yang seal, and the remaining chakra left in his body after his fight against Sasuke. "Using flight" is by no means a proof as that is not exclusive to Six Paths Senjutsu. Being in toad SM just confirms that fact. If you want to claim that its an animation problem even though the databook states it as well, prove it by other means. The logic doesn't flow the other way.

Whether Naruto end up stomping Toneri without Six Paths is not the issue here. Toneri rekt him, stole his girlfirend, stole his girlfriend's sister's eyes and yet he hold back SPSM? Like I said there is no downsides to SPSM even if he could activate both.

If he did stomp him, why bother anyway? Just because you fight someone does not mean you go all out right away. Same way Naruto could have lolstomped Shin when he was attacked alongside Sasuke. He didnt imediately go all out despite the fact that he could have just gotten into kurama mode, protect Sarada and Sasuke and literaly step on Shin.

That is no proof to this argument.

Why bother? Naruto didn't know that he could've won with just BSM, especially after he got defeated by Toneri, whom he has no idea how strong. Toneri took Hinata away from him, Naruto didn't know if he could save her or the Earth in time. So tell me again, why didn't he use SPSM?

How is the context of Shin any more urgent than Toneri? Toneri was literally going to destroy Earth. What was Shin going to do? Just to let you know, all this is not to prove my argument, because I stand that he couldn't switch between SPSM and SM even if he wanted to. All this is to disprove your argument.

How is losing Six Paths Chakra and losing Rinnegan the same thing? It's like saying you can't lose chakra because you can't lose Sharingan?

Six path chakra is the reason rinnegan is awakened in the first place.

And... this has nothing to do with what I said. You can lose the chakra but not the physical organ, whether the chakra awakened it is really not the issue here.

You are comparing an exhastable energy reserve with a physical organ. Six Paths Chakra is just chakra at the end of the day, and it can be exhasted/finished using.

That is the same way you draw a comparrision. You see when i tell you that Sasuke would lose his powers. It does not make any sense? Clearly. Also give me a single reason how Naruto recovers his six path chakra if he even lost it? this is competlely hyperbolic statment.

He has six path chakra in the first place because he has chakra of all tailed beasts. What are you saying that between shipuden and next denegerations he was drained of the beasts and then recovered them? This is just staright up dumb.

Huh? You can't exhast a Rinnegan = you can't exhast chakra? No that's not how I drew my comparison. My comparison was SPSM is enhanced version of SM, just like Rinnegan is enhanced EMS. My comparison makes sense but yours not really.

How Naruto recovered Six Paths Chakra? Read the OP. It is what the whole post is about after all.

What. I didn't say he drained the chakra of the Tailed Beasts. I said he drained the Six Paths chakra that he got from the yang seal.

Yes they replenish chakra from their chakra nodes, but that won't be Six Paths Chakra as it was externally acquired. Once they lose the seals as the source they lose access to replenishing Six Paths Chakra.

Are you talking about shadow and light seals? That has nothing to do with their six path pwers lol. Shadow and light seals is just a jutsu Six path gave them.

Naruto got six path chakra by recieving all of the tailed beasts chakra and awakened rikudou senjutsu. Sasuke got rinnegan by fusing sage chakra from kabuto and Uchiha eyes and awakened rinnegan the same way Madara did.

Yeah together they can cast Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. But the Yang seal is more than that. It also got Six Paths Yang Power from that seal which he can use to heal people with Yin-Yang release, which is chakra in its purest form. In fact, Kaguya even saw the chakra coming from Naruto's right palm, and figured it was Hagoromo's chakra.

You don't get Six Paths Chakra just by being the Jinchuriki of the nine Tailed Beasts, if you want to claim this please prove it. Obito extracted a small piece of Juubidara's Six Paths Sage chakra into Naruto which was what allow him to meet Hagoromo, nothing to do with the Tailed Beasts.

Sasuke got the Rinnegan not because of Sage Chakra. It is because Hashirama's DNA, as an Ashura reincarnate, meeting with Sasuke's DNA as a Indra reincarnate to produce Six Paths Chakra, which then awakens the Rinnegan in his EMS.

But the Rinnegan that has already evolved won't go devolving just because you no longer has that chakra.

i know that.

And yet you claim that six paths chakra won't be eventually used up just because the Rinnegan won't?

If you have read my OP, I already said the seal is their source of Six Paths Chakra back then.

Nope. the seals is just a jutsu Six path gave them to seal Kaguya. The chakra in itself was reached by merging the chakra of all beasts. Obito flat out said that he took out shukaku and gyuki from Madara to give Naruto the only chakra that is missing and we know that once they have all the chakra of the beasts the person awakens Rikudou senjutsu.

Sasuke himself got six path chakra because Kabuto gave him senjutu and with his EMS and uchiha chakra he was able to awaken rinnegan. The shadow and light styles six path have them was a different thing.

Shukaku and Gyuku isn't the only thing Obito took out. He also took out Six Paths Chakra, confirmed by Kakashi later, and Sage Chakra, which was confirmed by Madara. And also the Six Paths Sage Chakra is precisely how he reawakened one TSB as the staff, without possessing all nine Tailed Beasts. And TSB is a rikudou senjutsu technique, this is enough to disprove what you said already.

And you need to stop mixing up the concepts. Senjutsu has nothing to do with six paths or the awakening of the Rinnegan.

Losing the seal doesn't mean you immediately lose Six Paths Chakra, it means you lost the means of replenishing any new SixPaths Chakra if you run out.

Prove this point. This was not stated anywhere. Sasuke and Naruto had sealed Kaguya and the seals dissapeared. Later on they both had six path powers. Unless Naruto was drained from the beasts he wouldnt lose the chakra.

Wait what's the point you want me to prove here? Whether Naruto still has six paths chakra after losing the yang seal, or whether Naruto no longer has six paths chakra after his fight against Sasuke? Because the former was my point I was making in the previous post that you demanded prood, but the latter is what you are trying to claim.

There are still Six Paths Chakra in their bodies in VOTE, which they have shown to have fully exhasted after their fight.

Six path chakra is just evolving of their chakra. Once they have this chakra it is always there. SMH. It is not like some kind of special chakra that once used dissapears and you start using your own chakra.

Depends on how you got it. Naruto got the six paths chakra directly, so he still generate his own chakra. Sasuke and Madara got it from his cells being introduced Hashirama's DNA, so he will create Six Paths chakra from there onwards.

Whether the Juubi/Bijuu is natural energy or not concerns the Sage Chakra aspect of the Juubi Jinchuriki, not the Six Paths aspect.

there is no whether or not. He is natural energy. There is not such thing as sage chakra. There is sage mode and there is senjutsu chakra. Also False The junchuriki of ten tails automatically recieves rikudou senjutsu aka narutos six path powers.

I also never stated that sage mode and rikudou senjusu were the same thing.

What am i reading?? Yes he is natural energy. But that doesn't concern us because we are talking about Six Paths Chakra, not Sage/Senjutsu chakra whichever you like to call it.

Yeah the Jinchuriki of ten tails automatically (aka magically) gets Six Paths chakra. You need to work on debunking me rather than coming out with your own headcanon.

They are not the same thing, but neither are they contradictory, which was what you seemed to suggest.

The difference between Juubi and the 1-9 tails combined is the chakra in Gedo Mazo.

There clearly is a difference as the ten tails is an entity by himself.

I'm talking chakra wise. Do you know what we are even debating about?

In place of that is Hashirama's Wood Release Kekkei Genkai. From here on it's a long explanation which I have listed in the OP, you should debunk me from there.

What has this to do with anything?

Naruto had the full Kurama Mode in the Last, not to mention he focused all his chakra on his arm to become extra durable block.

Yeah and?

It seems like we are on totally different frequencies here. Why don't you look at what you said that I was replying to before you lost track of what we are debating about....

With just half of Kurama his Bijuu dama was country level.

So? Naruto in the last with just chakra cloak survived moon splitter which is above juubidama.

The biggest thing Toneri's beam did was splitting a Moon, a feat no more impressive than destroying a continent?

I hope you are joking. Toneri cutting the moon trumps any juubidama and its way above continent level.

Overall my point stands. Literaly nothing explained on actual facts of why he lost his powers. Instead bunch of speculations and conspiracy.

Also the fact that he could fly on the moon just puts the cherry on the cake.

Toneri moon splitting > juubidama is honestly just your opinion.

Dude your only argument why he was using SPSM in the Last all along is that he could fly. It's not the cherry it's the cake itself. I welcome you to give more evidence but so far that's just it.

About that, let me just say, the yang seal isn't the source of Naruto's SPSM. And SM isnt replaced by SPSM. They are two completely different senjutsu he can switch into. He does it several times in the entirety of The Last and still does it in Boruto.

SPSM is a MODE. Just like SM is a MODE. A seal isn't a source, it just came with the form, a form he can switch in and out of.

I'll get into it more when I'm in the mood.

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@batmanplusjay: i know the difference between spsm, sm and sp chakra hehe. But thanks anyway.

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Revold

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@kalebsmarty156 said:

Naruto even in the boruto era still has that weird black stuff he got after getting six paths sage mode.

Hey, that's actually a nice catch. I never saw that.

The Black doesn't symbolise anything in particular. Else these versions of adult Naruto isn't six paths for having the same palm design as Bijuu Mode Naruto.

No Caption Provided

I believe what you really meant is the sun seal in the original manga. However it turned out to be an art mistake since it was removed from the takobon version.

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BatmanPlusJay

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JOVIOLMA

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Show them Batman.

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EmperorMode

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Um......he never lost it to begin with.lol

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Revold

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@revold said:

Six Paths Sage Mode is not a power given by Hagoromo, but one awakened by Naruto himself as a result of receiving Six Paths Chakra on top of already having Sage Mode. It's like saying Sasuke can switch between his Rinnegan and EMS on his left eye, when the Rinnegan IS that EMS but evolved. Similarly, SPSM IS Naruto's Sage Mode for that time being.

I know how Naruto awakened six path sage mode. That was not the point. Point was that once he has that six path chakra. He has it forever unless someone drains him from it. Sasuke can not switch between his eyes because once the eye turns into a rinnegan. Its rinnegan forever.

My point was that SPSM and SM aren't two different abilities that Naruto can switch back and forth into. SPSM is just the evolved form of SM, so either Naruto possesses Six Paths Chakra and has SPSM, or he doesn't and has SM.

About that, let me just say, the yang seal isn't the source of Naruto's SPSM. And SM isnt replaced by SPSM. They are two completely different senjutsu he can switch into. He does it several times in the entirety of The Last and still does it in Boruto.

SPSM is a MODE. Just like SM is a MODE. A seal isn't a source, it just came with the form, a form he can switch in and out of.

I'll get into it more when I'm in the mood.

So how did Naruto get SPSM in your view? Is it an additional power that Hagoromo directly bestowed onto Naruto, independent of Naruto's own Sage Mode? No, Naruto's Sage Mode evolved into SPSM when he received Six Paths Chakra, just like how Sasuke's EMS evolved into the Rinnegan. If the former is true, Ashura would've gotten Rinnegan as well if when he was said to be given all of Hagoromo's power.

He got into SM in the Last because he lost his Six Paths Chakra. And in Boruto he only receives Six Paths Chakra in Kurama Link Mode, so in base he still uses regular SM. Details are in the OP, debunk me from there.

Yes SPSM and SM are modes. But the "Six Paths" in "Six Paths Sage Mode" isn't. That's the part you can't switch on and off to allow you to switch between SPSM and SM, that is, if you agree with me that SPSM is just the evolved form of SM first.

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Revold

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#43  Edited By Revold

@joviolma said:

Show them Batman.

Yo sup. How do you see my improved theory? It actually addresses all the points we debated about the last time. Everything fits like a puzzle to me now.

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@revold: “This also explains why Naruto no longer uses Six Paths Sage Mode in base, that is without going into Kurama Link Mode at the same time. (Although it is more of Bijuu Link Mode now since it links to not just Kurama anymore).

With just Wood Release and without the access to the chakra of the other nine Kekkei Genkai elements, he could only access his regular Toad Sage Mode.”

This still doesn’t make any sense and isn’t proven.

And using regular Sage Mode means he lost SPSM? What? And the reasoning behind it is “SPSM is the enhanced version, so it’s either one or the other”? That makes no sense. You’re basically saying Goku can’t use any of his lesser Super Saiyan forms because Super Saiyan God is the advanced version of it, that Naruto can’t use any KCM mode because Six Paths Mode is it’s advanced version, but we know that’s not true.

And really? How can Naruto use the low gravity on the moon to fly when the gravity is strong enough to keep you rooted to the ground? Do you have any proof at all that he used any jutsu to make himself fly through the air, keep up and maneuver with Toneri?

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reaverlation

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#45  Edited By reaverlation

This is memeworthy lmao. Like this is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen and I've seen a lot

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Revold

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@thevivas said:

@revold: “This also explains why Naruto no longer uses Six Paths Sage Mode in base, that is without going into Kurama Link Mode at the same time. (Although it is more of Bijuu Link Mode now since it links to not just Kurama anymore).

With just Wood Release and without the access to the chakra of the other nine Kekkei Genkai elements, he could only access his regular Toad Sage Mode.”

This still doesn’t make any sense and isn’t proven.

The Shikamaru Shinden novel extract I provided in the OP pretty much directly states that Naruto has Six Paths powers due to being like Juubi Jinchuriki "in a sense". The Juubi Jinchuriki has all the Bijuu Chakra + Gedo Mazo, Naruto already had the former so the latter is probably due to Hashirama's cells. Which part of this doesn't make sense to you?

And using regular Sage Mode means he lost SPSM? What? And the reasoning behind it is “SPSM is the enhanced version, so it’s either one or the other”? That makes no sense. You’re basically saying Goku can’t use any of his lesser Super Saiyan forms because Super Saiyan God is the advanced version of it, that Naruto can’t use any KCM mode because Six Paths Mode is it’s advanced version, but we know that’s not true.

Goku was able to convert between his God Ki and regular Ki. When he was in SS God, his Ki cannot be sensed. Then in SS, despite having absorbed the power he obtained from the ritual, the Ki is still sensable by mortals. It's either God Ki and SS God, or regular ki and regular SS.

This applies to Naruto if he can convert his Six Paths Chakra to normal chakra and vice versa, which I think we can both agree makes no sense since Six Paths Chakra does contain his own as Asura reincarnate.

Naruto can use KCM mode, if he choose not to activate SPSM or SM. Yes SPSM and SM are still modes. But the "Six Paths" in SPSM itself isn't. It is either you have Six Paths chakra, or you don't.

And for the sake of argument, even if he CAN go into regular sage mode, why would he? SPSM literally has no downsides compared to SM, so if you don't want to accept my theory, you'd have to come up with your own theories why he choose to use SM in The Last and in base in Boruto? I get that if you can't doesn't mean I'm right, but its strong evidence to support me if your stand creates more problems than mine.

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Revold

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@revold: All you are doing is making head-canon. Just because there is no downside doesn't mean he has to use it.

The logic is that if he didn't use it and had no reason not to use it, it stands to reason that he can't use it? I don't understand why do we start with the assumption that he can use it, and then proceed to determine if he did use it (art mistake) or if he had reason to not use it (holding back), when the latter two is definitely much less likely for the many reasons I've stated in the OP. Mostly because he lost the Yang power as his source of Six Paths Chakra, and Six Paths Chakra has been exhasted in VOTE.

What are the facts.

1. Naruto used sage of six paths chakra to fly.

2. Naruto used toad sage mode in his fight against toneri. Evident with the pigmentation around his eyes.

3. Naruto used nine tails cloak as well. Evident with the glowing skin that he has in his bijuu mode or KCM mode.

He was using the Rasengan etc Jutsu to propel himself, which is why you see him with them every time he flew. Even if you don't accept this, he was in regular toad Sage Mode, which already proves definitively that he wasn't using Six Paths Senjutsu, or else he would be in SPSM. And if you don't want to accept even this, you could hardly prove that he was flying as there was barely any gravity, and even if you want to ignore all these, flying isn't exclusive to Six Paths Senjutsu, so it is just supporting evidence at best rather than definitive proof. That's 4 layers of assumptions to debunk before you can legitimise this feat.

"He simply didn't use Six Paths Senjutsu to fly, he was using the force of the Rasengan to propel himself through the low-gravity environment."

Head canon and factually wrong. We see Naruto floating while he talks to toneri and then flying towards him multiple times in his fight. He didn't use the rasengan.

Naruto was floating under near zero gravity. Unless you show me he could manuvere around without holding a Rasengan at the same time. In fact using Six Paths Senjutsu in toad Sage Mode is more of a stretch than anything I've claimed so far.

"SPSM is Naruto's new Sage Mode when he got Six Paths Chakra, it's the same thing but enhanced, so he shouldn't be able to go toad Sage Mode when he has Six Paths Chakra"

Factually wrong again. Toad sage mode can be used even after his sage of six paths boost in the war arc. The shin uchiha arc proves it as Naruto uses toad sage mode in it.

No Caption Provided

That's because he doesn't have Six Paths Chakra in base. He only have it in Kurama Link Mode, when he had access to the Bijuu Chakra. This is supported by the Shikamaru novel extract. Naruto has never used SPSM in base, and never used toad SM with Kurama Link Mode on. There is a high chance that him using SPSM or SM depends on whether if he is in Kurama Sage Mode, and not by his own will or choice, especially when he had no reason to not choose SPSM if given one. He would've have had better precognition at the expense of... faster natural energy absorption? I see this as an absolute win.

These are irrefutable facts of the movie.

Now his form proves that he combines toad sage mode with bijuu mode like he has done in the war arc before he got his SOSP boost.

The mode is exactly that and saying that it isn't is just headcanon which has 0 facts to back it up.

The difference is Naruto has Hashirama's cells and the chakra of all Nine Tailed Beasts that he would be linked to when he go Kurama Link Mode. In the war arc he only linked seven, without Shukaku and Gyuki.

Honestly the most irrefutable fact should be that Naruto can't use Six Paths Senjutsu in regular toad Sage Mode. I don't understand why you are willing to forgo this for some questionable flying feat on the Moon.

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@revold: I was gonna answer the post but adi frosts post completely proves my post. At this point ignoring the scan adi frosts scan is and im sorry to say flat out ignorance.

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@revold: I was gonna answer the post but adi frosts post completely proves my post. At this point ignoring the scan adi frosts scan is and im sorry to say flat out ignorance.

You mean Adult Naruto in toad Sage Mode? I didn't ignore it at all, in fact I had a similar scan in my OP even before he posted that scan. In base, he had no Six Paths Chakra. In Kurama Link Mode, the nine Bijuu chakra and Hashirama chakra combines to become Six Paths Chakra, as described in the Shikamaru Shinden as similar to Juubito "in a sense".

Honestly, none of the arguments/scans put forth so far has surprised me, or that I've not seen or thought through before. I've once also thought of Naruto can simply go into SPSM/SM at will, or SM in the Last is an art mistake, or Naruto could fly, but soon enough they stops making sense. Sure, my theory seems unncessary complicated at first glance, but that is to accomodate the various small problems that accumulate if we follow simple explanations like "He just can/he just didn't do it" or "Juubi Jinchuriki will just automatically get Six Paths chakra" or "Six Paths chakra will just stay there forever". None of these really make sense if you think thoroughly enough.

And it doesn't help if you just point out how my theory COULD be wrong, only to fail to give an explanation later as to why certain things doesn't make sense following your own theory.

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#50  Edited By Revold

@batmanplusjay: @thevivas: @supermanforever: @adi_frost: @ourmanuel:

Oh and I actually found direct proof that Naruto didn't have Six Paths Chakra in the Last:

No Caption Provided

Toneri was able to absorb Naruto's Chakra, but not Hamura's Chakra. If he couldn't absorb Hamura's Chakra, then it is extremely unlikely that he was able to absorb Hagoromo's Chakra as well (since their chakra are extremely similar as twins).

In fact, Kaguya even recognized the chakra from Sasuke's left palm as Hamura's chakra, the same Six Paths Chakra that gave Sasuke his Onyx Chidori.

So no, BSM Naruto definitely isn't a mistake, nor is it Naruto's choice.

And after Hinata gave Naruto some of Hamura's chakra, Naruto go into his mode for 3 seconds on screen:

No Caption Provided

This is the clearest picture closest to Naruto before the screen blacked out. Even though it is small, there seems to be no red pigmentation on his face. Basically, Naruto gained Six Paths Sage Mode back for possessing Hamura's Chakra.