Do you read "Comic Books" or "Graphic Novels"?

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NiteFly

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Edited By NiteFly

My curiosity was sparked by some arguing on Slashdot pertaining to comic books.  This is not a new issue, but I am curious what the general consensus on the forums is.  There is contention amongst fans and even writers of comic books about the use of the term "Graphic Novels" to describe certain comics and trades.  From Wikipedia:

Some in the comics community have objected to the term "graphic novel" on the grounds that it is unnecessary, or that its usage has been corrupted by commercial interests. Writer Alan Moore believes, "It's a marketing term ... that I never had any sympathy with. The term 'comic' does just as well for me. ... The problem is that 'graphic novel' just came to mean 'expensive comic book' and so what you'd get is people like DC Comics or Marvel comics — because 'graphic novels' were getting some attention, they'd stick six issues of whatever worthless piece of crap they happened to be publishing lately under a glossy cover and call it The She-Hulk Graphic Novel...."

Author Daniel Raeburn wrote "I snicker at the neologism first for its insecure pretension — the literary equivalent of calling a garbage man a 'sanitation engineer' — and second because a 'graphic novel' is in fact the very thing it is ashamed to admit: a comic book, rather than a comic pamphlet or comic magazine."

Writer Neil Gaimen, responding to a claim that he does not write comic books but graphic novels, said the commenter "meant it as a compliment, I suppose. But all of a sudden I felt like someone who'd been informed that she wasn't actually a hooker; that in fact she was a lady of the evening." Comedian and comic book fan Robin Williams joked, "'Is that a comic book? No! It's a graphic novel! Is that porn? No! It's adult entertainment!'"

Some alternative cartoonists have coined their own terms to describe extended comics narratives. The cover of Daniel Clowes' Ice Havendescribes the book as "a comic-strip novel", with Clowes having noted that he "never saw anything wrong with the comic book". When The Comics Journal asked the cartoonist Seth why he added the subtitle "A Picture Novella" to his comic It's a Good Life, If you Don't Weaken, he responded, "I could have just put 'a comic book'... It goes without saying that I didn't want to use the term graphic novel. I just don't like that term".

What do you think about term "Graphic Novel"?  Is this a case of using fancy words that display insecure pretension or does the term better suit certain works than "comic" or "trade"?

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Virago

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#1  Edited By Virago
"But all of a sudden I felt like someone who'd been informed that she wasn't actually a hooker; that in fact she was a lady of the evening." =D

I think "Graphic Novel" is just a sugar coated term for people to use to make themselves seem more educated. It's exactly like the aforementioned quote; it's all about the language we use and are accustomed to. What will make us sound better in other people's eyes. Frankly, I misuse the term graphic novel and use to explain the collected story arc, and just say "comic book". This is a very interesting notion, though.
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#2  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

I think the only time I usually use the term Graphic novel is if it is an independent work that stands on its own like "The Watchmen", V For Vendetta", or such.

If it's Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Daredevil, Superman, etc. then I don't usually use the term Graphic Novel.

I am not sure if that was clear...lol

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#3  Edited By Acheron

I just use graphic novel because it's a thing that we in my family immediately understand (IE: "Yeah, they've got a Planet Hulk graphic novel out now"), but I recognize that a better term would be something like "trade paperback" or whatnot.

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#4  Edited By fesak  Moderator

I don't think i've ever used the term graphic novel, but thinking about it comic book isn't really right either, since they most often do not contain comedy and they aren't really books either.

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inferiorego

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#5  Edited By inferiorego  Staff

Comics are comics, lets not muck up the water with elitist titles.

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Both

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#8  Edited By Slinger

Some things I might have a hard time calling "comic" in any sense of the word. I'd probably refer to 'Persepolis' or 'Maus' as graphic novels, but anything that's fantastical or whimsical in nature is definitely a comic.

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#9  Edited By speedlgt

I agree that the term comic book really makes no sense at all to modern comics because there not comic! most a stories serious and action packed basically more story driven than comic or strip driven. In that sense the term novel is better to what really is going on.....now if that term is a bit too educated than maybe just story or tale is enough.  Then of course we get the art which is graphic.....in terms of art education the art in question is graphic and sequential thus the name graphic novel is closer to the real meaning of whats going on in these books. I have no problem with the term at all. It may come across as snoty or too educated for some but as works of art (which I feel these books are) the term is a fine one. 

Trade paper back is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of call these books it makes no sense and IMO its a way that comic book clerks make fun of you for having to read a "trade" cause your not there evey wed buying single titles every month. I feel they (comic clerks) view trades as a cheap way for a casual fan to keep up as opposed to a "real" fan like them giving up the life they have for the books.  Also trade form puts these stories in the major book stores and thus makes business harder for comic clerks.

personally I feel that graphic novels in the usual 6-8 book format is the best way to read comics and sell comics. most stories just feel better as read as a whole as opposed to one a month. they make more money too in that you pay for all the issues while If reading SI for example you may get tired of it and stop buying them or you cant get cause it sold out.

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#10  Edited By Slinger
speedlgt said:
"Trade paper back is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of call these books it makes no sense and IMO its a way that comic book clerks make fun of you for having to read a "trade" cause your not there evey wed buying single titles every month. I feel they (comic clerks) view trades as a cheap way for a casual fan to keep up as opposed to a "real" fan like them giving up the life they have for the books.  Also trade form puts these stories in the major book stores and thus makes business harder for comic clerks."
Trade paperback is a publishing industry term. Not just graphic novels and comics come in trades, but just about every book published today. Trade paperback just means that the actual content of the book (in comics usually minus the advertisements) matches the original publication's (usually a hardcover) dimensions. The reason comics are pretty much only done in trade format is pretty obvious. If they shrunk anything down you would A) be pissed, and B) may not able to read it.
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#11  Edited By vance_astro  Moderator

As long as it has pictures and bubbles for talking and thinking..i'm in.

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#12  Edited By Resonate

Since Im a big manga fan, I suppose all I read is from Graphic Novels, then there's the internet hosting sites and the magazines I subscribe too

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#13  Edited By gmanfromheck

I think of oversized comic stories as Graphic Novels, like what Marvel used to put out:  http://www.comicvine.com/marvel-graphic-novel/49-3144/

"God Loves, Man Kills" was one of the first comics I read.  Yes it's a comic but it doesn't really follow the definition of a comic book.  Trade paperbacks are something different.  

I don't really care so much what they're called.  I'll read whatever format as long as it's good.

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#14  Edited By NiteFly
speedlgt said:
"I agree that the term comic book really makes no sense at all to modern comics because there not comic! most a stories serious and action packed basically more story driven than comic or strip driven. In that sense the term novel is better to what really is going on.....now if that term is a bit too educated than maybe just story or tale is enough.  Then of course we get the art which is graphic.....in terms of art education the art in question is graphic and sequential thus the name graphic novel is closer to the real meaning of whats going on in these books. I have no problem with the term at all. It may come across as snoty or too educated for some but as works of art (which I feel these books are) the term is a fine one. 

Trade paper back is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of call these books it makes no sense and IMO its a way that comic book clerks make fun of you for having to read a "trade" cause your not there evey wed buying single titles every month. I feel they (comic clerks) view trades as a cheap way for a casual fan to keep up as opposed to a "real" fan like them giving up the life they have for the books.  Also trade form puts these stories in the major book stores and thus makes business harder for comic clerks.

personally I feel that graphic novels in the usual 6-8 book format is the best way to read comics and sell comics. most stories just feel better as read as a whole as opposed to one a month. they make more money too in that you pay for all the issues while If reading SI for example you may get tired of it and stop buying them or you cant get cause it sold out."

I think you're really missing the point.  The term "comic book" has a well established history to it.  Yes they are not necessarily comic in nature, but the root of the term stems from the collections of comic strips from newspapers (those generally were comic in nature), and caught on to describe anything published in a similar panel-by-panel format.  The term comic book has well established roots in the industry and is not going anywhere.

This is also not about the format in which you read your books.  (By the way, if people at your comic book shop give you crap about what you purchase I would find somewhere else to spend my money.)  It is about the terminology used and its connotations.  I have personally run into this issue where I work (a major US university).  I have encountered people on more than one occasion that (after I tell them that I am a big fan of comic books) respond by saying that they read Graphic Novels.  Some probing generally reveals that at least most of what they are talking about are trade paperbacks or hardcovers collecting individual issues of what at one point were published as comic books.  These books were comics when they were first published but when they are collected together in story-archs they are magically transmogrified into Graphic Novels, something that seems to sound much more intellectually appealing but is in essence the same thing!

Personally I have always thought of these things as comics and trades.  To me "Graphic Novel" is a new buzz term that is either geared towards selling books or used by people who are somehow afraid to admit that they read comic books.
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#15  Edited By Chickenman

I hate it when people refer to my collection of sequential art erotica as "dirty comics".

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speedlgt

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#16  Edited By speedlgt
NiteFly said:
"speedlgt said:
"I agree that the term comic book really makes no sense at all to modern comics because there not comic! most a stories serious and action packed basically more story driven than comic or strip driven. In that sense the term novel is better to what really is going on.....now if that term is a bit too educated than maybe just story or tale is enough.  Then of course we get the art which is graphic.....in terms of art education the art in question is graphic and sequential thus the name graphic novel is closer to the real meaning of whats going on in these books. I have no problem with the term at all. It may come across as snoty or too educated for some but as works of art (which I feel these books are) the term is a fine one. 

Trade paper back is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of call these books it makes no sense and IMO its a way that comic book clerks make fun of you for having to read a "trade" cause your not there evey wed buying single titles every month. I feel they (comic clerks) view trades as a cheap way for a casual fan to keep up as opposed to a "real" fan like them giving up the life they have for the books.  Also trade form puts these stories in the major book stores and thus makes business harder for comic clerks.

personally I feel that graphic novels in the usual 6-8 book format is the best way to read comics and sell comics. most stories just feel better as read as a whole as opposed to one a month. they make more money too in that you pay for all the issues while If reading SI for example you may get tired of it and stop buying them or you cant get cause it sold out."

I think you're really missing the point.  The term "comic book" has a well established history to it.  Yes they are not necessarily comic in nature, but the root of the term stems from the collections of comic strips from newspapers (those generally were comic in nature), and caught on to describe anything published in a similar panel-by-panel format.  The term comic book has well established roots in the industry and is not going anywhere.

This is also not about the format in which you read your books.  (By the way, if people at your comic book shop give you crap about what you purchase I would find somewhere else to spend my money.)  It is about the terminology used and its connotations.  I have personally run into this issue where I work (a major US university).  I have encountered people on more than one occasion that (after I tell them that I am a big fan of comic books) respond by saying that they read Graphic Novels.  Some probing generally reveals that at least most of what they are talking about are trade paperbacks or hardcovers collecting individual issues of what at one point were published as comic books.  These books were comics when they were first published but when they are collected together in story-archs they are magically transmogrified into Graphic Novels, something that seems to sound much more intellectually appealing but is in essence the same thing!

Personally I have always thought of these things as comics and trades.  To me "Graphic Novel" is a new buzz term that is either geared towards selling books or used by people who are somehow afraid to admit that they read comic books.
"
I understand where the term comic comes from and its history and I have not missed that point. IMO I just like that term graphic novel not cause it sounds more educated but because I feel it is more direct about what it is and also cause it denotes something different in the eyes of regular people. I too work for a university and even though its just comics and idea of phrasing something to have a better impact for its artistic value IMO is positive thing for the artist and writers.
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#17  Edited By Darth Balls

I use the term graphic novel because i thought that was the term for separating it from comics. do you habve a bette name for them.And i really don't see the big deal whether or not its called a graphic novel is no harm can come from it.

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#18  Edited By Savage_batman

both!!!

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#19  Edited By HobGadling

The man (Neil Gaiman) once said, when a literary critic at a party told him that "Good God, man!  I know you!  You don't write comics!  You write graphic novels!"...  he felt like he'd just been told that he wasn't a hooker, but a "lady of the night". lol

Good work can be done in comics.  It's the people who can't accept that that need to call them something else.  Neil's Sandman, though in graphic novel form now, was not a graphic novel, but a comic book series, and that literary critic was a close-minded idiot.

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#20  Edited By Virago
Chickenman said:
"I hate it when people refer to my collection of sequential art erotica as "dirty comics"."
ha ha?
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#21  Edited By shatterstar  Moderator

I've never said graphic novel with a straight face, pretty much only as a joke to make reading comics sound more serious than it is.  I'll agree entirely with what Alan Moore said.

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#22  Edited By Watch Dog

I use the terms graphic novel and trade paperback inter-changeably and its not because I can't accept that I read comics.   I love comics and collect many titles a month and I buy trades/graphic novels of my favorite stories or stuff I haven't read.  I was first told that they were graphic novels, so that's a term I use(I was 7 or 8 at the time, and I am now 31) I know there just comics but there collections or at least bigger than average so they deserve there own name because there not just one 26 page comic.  So if you call it a trade or a graphic novel who cares your probably reading the same stuff.