Do You Prefer Characters With a Status Quo (Relatively) or Prefer Characters for Their Potential?

  • 61 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Poll Do You Prefer Characters With a Status Quo (Relatively) or Prefer Characters for Their Potential? (14 votes)

You Prefer Characters Who May Have Some Change Ups but There's a Safe Bet They'll Be Back to Their Status Quo 43%
You Prefer Characters Based on Their Potential To Grow in a Desired Direction But You're Taking a "Risk" in Investing Yourself in that Character- You're Just Hoping You Didn't Waste Your Time, Money, and LIFE like I did With Spider-man Up Until ONE MORE DAY WHY'D YOU DO IT PETER, WHY?...just kidding 57%

If you guys had to choose a preference, which type of character do you prefer?

And please give examples of characters for why you chose the way you did.

Your answers depend on why you read or watched the characters, so your choices of characters for status quo characters could be different than those reading or watching characters based on their potential.

A character like Walter White could be considered could be categorized under status quo characters because you were pretty confident he wouldn't remain a villain at the end of Breaking Bad whereas

A character like Gollum in the Lord of the Rings you might have invested in the character in thinking he would actually become a hero.

P.S. Status Quo might not be the best description for what I described under Walter White but I thought it would be helpful for what to categorize him under given these two options, and I'm trying to make this less confusing than it already might be.

 • 
Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By infantfinite128  Online

You guys might disagree, but I thought these might be more examples of characters:

Status Quo Characters: Batman, Superman, The Joker, Maximus (Gladiator), Princess Leia, Jefferson Smith (Mr. Smith Goes to Washington), Rocky Balboa, Snoopy, The Joker, Van Helsing, Dracula, Gandalf, Jerry Seinfeld, Walter White, Spongebob

Characters for their Potential: Wolverine, Deathstroke, Gollum, Jesse Pinkman, Han Solo, Niles Crane (Fraiser), Michael Corelone (The Godfather), Jack Sparrow, Kurririn, Yamucha

The purpose of making this a binary choice it can be helpful to get to the point of what we think quicker.

If someone could quote tag this list, I'd be grateful:

@nevesytneves@vishop_@cocacolaman@skywalker95@boc@ursaber@jedisympathiz3r: @combo-man@ghostodoofus2@indomitableregal@killbilly@takenstew22@rikr2@mrsyg@eslay03@irohz@darkthunder@waezi2@dshipp17@johnbrief@stealthgrey@life_without_progress@tobeymaguire84@referee@thor-parker@johanliebert123@kairan1979@ready_4_madness@entropy_aegis@eto@randybutternubs@hulk_like_fire@professorrespect@happylife1996@darthsuper@wolverinebatmanftw@jaggernutt@faradaysloth@steve40l@factg@baldur_odinson@nerise@spareheadone@haikyuu444@sirkaboom15@superprimetime

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Anyone interested?

Avatar image for deactivated-60c7ec0cc5374
deactivated-60c7ec0cc5374

1217

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for referee
Referee

23277

Forum Posts

318

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

If I understand correctly, I'm definitely a Status Quo kind of guy.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I'm doing the first with Spidey, and the second with Red Hood. So I can't really answer. Good question though.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l said:

I'm doing the first with Spidey, and the second with Red Hood. So I can't really answer. Good question though.

Those are both great examples of each.

I forgot about Red Hood. He's one of my favorite examples of reading for the potential.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@cocacolaman: Can always count on the status quo of you being awesome.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 I will say, with his new suit, their really steering away from what I was hoping for. Hopefully a writer with his head screwed on right will fix that.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: They didn't change it back from the Casey Jones outfit?

I've been reading it and I'm currently in the 30s but I thought I saw on the cover of one of the trade paperbacks with Jason back in his old Red Hood suit.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@haikyuu444: It's tough. You could give examples of each until you decide.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@referee said:

If I understand correctly, I'm definitely a Status Quo kind of guy.

Nice. Do you have a favorite example of status quo characters?

I gave examples in my second post if that helps.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 Must have been an older issue, because he's still wearing that Casey John Mortal Combat esk outfit that really really ruins the character. I have no idea why he would downgrade himself, he's always been a more practical character anyway. I'm hoping he becomes a Batman level hero who does things brutally, but with style. Which he kind of used to be.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l:Bummer.

Yeah, it is an older issue. Currently it's my favorite current DC series besides Peter Tomasi's Detective Comics (I'm reading the trades).

Are there any other characters that might break the tie for you to vote?

What about:

Status quo: Leonardo (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)

Potential: Raphael (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles)

Are you a Leonardo or a Raphael guy.

Although, you might not be that big enough fan of TMNT for it to be a deciding factor. haha

Avatar image for indomitableregal
IndomitableRegal

23983

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128: I think I'm more of a status quo guy when it comes most established characters, though for newer characters, or ones with less publication history, it would have to be potential (though could it be anything else at that point?).

When it comes to established characters, I look to that old, tried and true adage -- Ahem: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Lol. For example, not a huge Wonder Woman fan or anything, but was the whole Witching Hour thing really necessary with her? Thing busting his arm and KOing the Hulk? She Hulk's Hulk form having a further hulk form? Howard and Maria not actually being Tony's parents? Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver not being Magneto's kids? Mjolnir housing the God Tempest, and Jane Foster Thor's existence as a whole? That's not to say it never works. House/Powers of X is a great example to a shift in status quo. I just prefer if writers put a little more thought behind their changes instead of essentially experimenting.

Funny that you guys mention Red Hood. I was reading RHATO, but I actually haven't gotten back to it for awhile. I think the last issue I read was 42. The run started off really strong, but funnily enough fell off right when Dexter Soy stopped doing the art around the mid 20s.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@indomitableregal: Make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver and the other is gold. Although, that's also debatable which is the more worthwhile investment, but, being that you brought up an old, tried, and true adage, I'm going with the old meaning of gold to stand for the old faithful characters who are like the fathers the daughters call for help when things don't work out with the bad boy they dated.

Yeah, RHATO started off strong. I started reading it again because you wrote Red Hood as one of the characters who you still are interested in their appearances:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/what-heroes-never-let-you-down-2179770/

And I think it was a combination of that thread and another thread for why I started reading Iron Man comics again (although, it was Iron Man comics from the 90s) and why I made that "Which Side Were You On in Tower of Babel and Civil War" thread.

I'm actually a pretty competitive UNO player, and was aware of your UNO genius before you mentioned it in another thread (lol), so I was hoping that some of that genius stuff would rub off on me because there's gotta be some correlation, right?

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 I'm definitely A Raph kind of guy but since you brought TMNT to my mind, I might start to like Leo more. Anyway, I feel both of their status quos are are good with me. But I don't care enough about any other characters for the tie to be broken. Sorry:/

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: Haha. No problem. I actually had a similar reaction to thinking I'm a Raph guy but if I was to watch or read TMNT again, I think I'd be a Leo guy at this point.

I voted status quo for reliable traditional heroes with fortitude.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By Steve40L

@infantfinite128 Am I the only one who wants Jason to be an equal to Batman? Because I really feel like he should essentially be the Batman that when you see him, you know you're done

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: You mean that you think Jason should be like Jean Paul Valley Azrael Batman from Knightfall?

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 I don't really know what Knightfall is. But Ghost Maker is a better example.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: Knightfall is a story where Batman broke Batman's back, and Jean Paul Valley took over the Batman mantle while Bruce recovered.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 Oh, that's one of the few things I actually have an issue from. Anyway, I wouldn't say exactly, but kind of close.

Avatar image for EvilTyger
Tyger

2924

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Spider-Man had a lot of character growth from inception to the 90s. Really, so did quite a few. When the bottom fell out of the industry, a lot of resetting was done.

The restoration of 'status quo'... mostly sucked. Sometimes it felt like the 'comic book guy' from the Simpsons took over.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Spider-Man had a lot of character growth from inception to the 90s. Really, so did quite a few. When the bottom fell out of the industry, a lot of resetting was done.

The restoration of 'status quo'... mostly sucked. Sometimes it felt like the 'comic book guy' from the Simpsons took over.

What other characters did you read for their potential character growth?

The Simpsons are actually a reason why I vote status quo characters. Unfortunately, the writing lost it's way after the 8th season, but until that point, they were a great set of status quo characters.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 I'm curious what you think, but I saw this design of Red Hood floating around the internet and I think it matches what I want from him almost perfectly

No Caption Provided

But this design I think they're going to use for Titans is equally as good

No Caption Provided

I also feel like the second one just fits what people expect from Jason more, so it might be better if DC started using that one in the comics.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: Why do you like it?

As you previously said, Jason is a practical guy. Why is he wearing converse like shoes? He'll wreck his feet and they'll squeak.

And his ankles are exposed. Someone is going to cut his Achilles tendons.

And his jacket looks like it's there for some edgy boi design over utility.

He also shouldn't all that red. It's not helpful for stealth.

If he wants to wear the helmet, that's one thing, if it's bullet proof, but wearing red anywhere else is a bad move, including his swords.

Why is he wearing shorts over his pants? That adds to more restriction to his movement.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 The first design I like because it looks easier to move in, making him a more agile character. The second one looks more like how he generally should be. Though the jacket is problematic as you pointed out, I didn't notice any shorts on his pants, I guess his ankles are somewhat more exposed, but all in all, it's a good design IMO. It's biggest advantage in my opinion is the sword. I feel that's a weapon Jason should use more.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: I think it makes sense if he wears a jacket more like in the second image, but not a red hood because I would think the purpose of the hooded jacket is to blend in more, but the extra red in the hood draws attention.

Why do you think Jason should use a sword?

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 Because it's a brutally efficient and quick weapon when utilized correctly, coupled with his experience in using swords, I think it's a fitting weapon. And I guess you can say the red hood attracts attention, but it looks sick. And though he certainly knows how to use stealth, he's more fond of making a grand entrance anyway.

Avatar image for grimangel
GrimAngel

112

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I think I'd go with Status Quo

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: Is he going to be killing people with the swords? How is that going to work with Batman monitoring him?

Getting back to his outfit, if he's a character about practicality though, couldn't his regular red hood helmet be enough for when he makes the grand entrance?

Have a red hoodie hood over the helmet takes away from making a grand entrance because people will always be aware he's around.

He can drop the hood when he's no longer being like Altair from Assassin's Creed, and then go nuts.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I think I'd go with Status Quo

Nice. Do you have characters in mind for why you chose status quo?

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36  Edited By Steve40L

@infantfinite128 That's all true. But I'm hoping the whole Batman watching over him thing is done with. Like I said earlier, I want him to be an equal. And Batman can't use his time to keep someone in line that he ultimately can't keep in line. So, yes, I'm hoping he goes back to killing.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: How would it be done with if he's still killing people? Bruce is waging war on all criminals and is most likely never going to stop, and there was already a precedent set in Knightfall with the Jean Paul Valley Batman that a more brutal Batman isn't tolerated. And he was even killing people on the level of Jason.

And there's still Nightwing, Tim Drake Robin, Damian, Cassie Caine, Spoiler, Barbara Gordon/Oracle/Batgirl, Commisoner Gordon, the Outsiders, the Titans, and Justice League members checking in who won't allow Jason to operate.

I don't see how Jason can continue being a killer.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 I actually thought it would be cool if he was part of the Teen Titans. Members like Diana in the Justice League actually do kill so it would be incredibly counter intuitive of them to prevent Jason from killing. You're going to have to remind me on who the outsiders are, I feel like I recognize that name but don't remember them. And I can imagine him coming into conflict occasionally with Batman. But in the end, he's not going to prioritize Jason if every time he tries, he either loses, or it ends in a draw. Also, I'm hoping Jason is like a Deathstroke counter, which would already put him above Batman to a certain degree.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: So you mean have Jason kill in self-defense?

Not murder people though. Right? Like Red Hood used to. Because then Jason would be a villain.

So then he wouldn't be working in Gotham and would be working in more fantastical situations so he would be killing monsters?

Otherwise, Batman has enough problems with the law and freaking out the innocent people more so than people already might be with Batman (since they might not know he's a hero like we readers do since we can read Batman's thought bubbles and see Batman as Bruce Wayne). And Batman's already walking on thin ice. If it wasn't for Commissioner Gordon, Batman probably couldn't operate.

And I think Gotham villains would kill Red Hood since they hold back with Batman since they want to test their skills against him.

They like the psychological component that Bruce Wayne brings; whereas with Jason, they might just blow him up.

Also, Katana had a sword on the Batman's team of Outsiders, but I forget how she used it. I don't remember the comics, but surely, with Batman heading up the team, she wasn't murdering people.

This is the Outsiders:

Batman Lead his Team of Outsiders:

No Caption Provided

And Nightwing had his team of Outsiders:

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for theinsufferable
TheInsufferable

8440

Forum Posts

125

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

One thing I liked about Invincible, and creator owned heroes in general, is that they can usually avoid a stale status quo, while at the same time be safe from dumb shit like one more day. As long as the creator in question knows how to write, that is.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

One thing I liked about Invincible, and creator owned heroes in general, is that they can usually avoid a stale status quo, while at the same time be safe from dumb shit like one more day. As long as the creator in question knows how to write, that is.

That's a reason I tried to read Invincible but, unfortunately, it didn't hold my interest.

I wasted to read a character with actual progression with stakes, but the writing didn't appear to have much depth in comparison to the Stan Lee/Steve Ditko Spider-man.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42  Edited By infantfinite128  Online

@theinsufferable: Do you have characters in mind, besides Invisible, if you did vote for characters based on their potential?

I might have voted based on potential but a lot of entertainment usually ends up stinking later on.

Just using family sitcoms as an example. They start getting dirtier, and the characters loose their appeal.

Or with video game franchise, they might get more fantastical and weirder. Or the characters become less virtuous, or at least, have less of a strive for virtue.

Take Devil May Cry V for an example. There wasn't a struggle for Dante to be a better man like in Devil May Cry 3. Great gameplay mechanics, but not as compelling of a character.

Avatar image for theinsufferable
TheInsufferable

8440

Forum Posts

125

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43  Edited By TheInsufferable

@infantfinite128: If we're sticking to superheroes, Sara Pezzini from Witchblade is one that come to mind. Although Witchblade wasn't written by one writer, and it really shows. The series' highlight is Ron Marz's run.

If we're going with non-superhero stuff, Jennifer Blood was an interesting series, albeit very violent.

Garth Ennis' Red Team is about an elite police team who decide to take law in their own hands. Interesting read if you dig Ennis' stuff.

Yorick Brown from Y the Last Man (kinda).

It's probably easier to find them in literature. Also, if I understand it correctly, an easier way to describe what you're looking for may be Static vs Dynamic character, although the Walter White example does kinda sound different.

Avatar image for theinsufferable
TheInsufferable

8440

Forum Posts

125

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Take Devil May Cry V for an example. There wasn't a struggle for Dante to be a better man like in Devil May Cry 3. Great gameplay mechanics, but not as compelling of a character.

Yeah, the later iterations of Dante were just too much Mr. too cool to be affected by anything.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 Actually, I mean hunt down villains and kill them. I liked Red Hood because he had such a justifiable moral gray area that kind of disappears when he doesn't kill. And also, Batman gets help from Gordon, but I feel he would be alright without him, he'd just have to change his system. I just imagine Jason being someone who does the job better then other hero's because he does things they wouldn't. I don't really consider killing bad guys wrong or evil because not killing them so often ends up in more deaths. This picture I found sums it up pretty well.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@theinsufferable: Thanks for your examples.

Static vs Dynamic would be a different thread, since this is more about your mindset going in after discovering the character concept.

The reason why Walter White fit the "status quo" category is because I thought the creator announced what Walter White's journey was before Breaking Bad concluded, so, as an audience member, you weren't watching for where Walter White would potentially end up since you might have already known.

I didn't use the best words but I tried to use the best words at the time that would be attractive and understandable to the widest audience to get people's opinions on, in a broad way to allow people to take things in whatever direction they wanted.

Using Walter White as example hopefully helped quickly direct people to what I was going with, but he could have been potential character since this really depends on what your general preference is going in.

For an example, if you read Peanuts comics with Charlie Brown kicking the foot ball:

Status quo choice: After seeing Lucy grab the football away in time, you're still enjoying reading Charlie Brown whether or not he kicked that football, but you're content if Charlie Brown continues to fall for Lucy pulling the football away.

Potential choice: You invested yourself in those Charlie Brown kicking the foot ball comics in the hopes that it would lead to Charlie Brown become a great foot ball player or Charlie Brown would eventually marry Lucy, and if it didn't go into that direction, and you just get stories of Charlie Brown sometimes missing the football and sometimes kicking it, you'll be disappointed.

Another example:

Status quo choice: You enjoyed Magneto as a villain, but when he became a anti-hero or hero for awhile, you were fine, but but you'd eventually want to see him as a villain again.

Potential choice: You thought back in the Stan Lee 1960s comics that Magneto had the potential to become a hero, and emotionally invested yourself in the character because of that idea you had for Magneto's character. And when he was written in a more heroic direction leading the X-Men in the 1980s Chris Claremont X-Men comics (at least I think Magneto was written in a more heroic direction in the 1980s comics, my memory could be off), you were happy until you saw him go back to being a villain, you were disappointed, and were still waiting around for him to become a hero.

Maybe those weren't the best examples, but that's the kind of direction I was thinking.

The direction people went with the options is up to the people.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47  Edited By infantfinite128  Online

@steve40l: I think that's taking something that Batman might say out of context to work for a smart aleck narrative in favor of Red Hood.

In context, that quote might be a decent, and if Batman was written well, he'd agree that a police officer might need to kill a bunch of criminals in self-defense or a solider might have to kill tons of enemy soldiers to defend his country and family.

It's not supporting murder since murder is evil, but Batman, if written well, should support killing in self-defense.

More modern Batman might have him totally opposed to killing, even in self-defense, which is stupid.

I don't remember the whole context of Infinite Crisis, so maybe there was more to it, but at the time when I read the story with Batman and Superman getting upset over Wonder Woman killing Max Lord, I thought Batman and Superman were stupid.

And one reason I didn't like Superman was because in the Joe Kelly comics run where Wonder Woman and Superman fought demons, Superman refused to kill them...but they were demons. In that specific interpretation of the characters Wonder Woman > Superman.

In the Golden Age, Batman served justice and seemingly supported the death penalty and in later comics, I think the 1980s and 1990s, Batman killed in self-defense. And the death penalty does serve justice.

Red Hood was a murderer like the Punisher. He did not serve justice.

Avatar image for steve40l
Steve40L

2810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@infantfinite128 I think we have different views on the whole super hero's killing thing.

Avatar image for infantfinite128
infantfinite128

10683

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@steve40l: What do you think makes a hero? Because there should be a standard to be considered a hero.

A hero is a self-sacrificial virtuous person.

I consider the Lord of the Rings characters Aragorn and Sam among the greatest heroes in fiction and they kill.

If Batman and Superman refused to kill Orcs, I'd think they were ridiculous, and depending on the writer, they might refuse to kill Orcs, which I think makes them look pathetic. But I think a lot of, if not most, superheroes are pathetic nowadays.

I think superheroes should kill in self-defense, but they have to deal with the repercussions of their actions similar to how other people would if they heroically risked their lives to save a child from a murderous rapist.

The rest of the citizens might not know that heroic person was acting in self-defense.

Maybe that murderous rapist appeared like a decent person to his family, friends, and co-workers, so they might think that heroic person is just a murderer.

The heroic person's friends and family might hide the heroic person because they think that there might be corruption preventing justice for their heroic friend or family member, and I think they'd be right to do so.

But that's the repercussion of doing the right thing a lot of times.

Being a hero isn't easy.

I think Batman was able to get as far as he did because of Commissioner Gordon helping him out.

Avatar image for theinsufferable
TheInsufferable

8440

Forum Posts

125

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50  Edited By TheInsufferable

@infantfinite128: It's weird, I don't get notifications when you tag me for some reason. Might have something to do with whatever makes your profile page 404.

I see what you mean. Thing is, most Marvel and DC comic stories do not have a third act, so there's not a definite resolution on where a character will stand at their ending. They're usually sliding back and forth between status quos. Like the majority of X-Men villains have stories where they turn good, and then slide back to evil once a writer wants to try something else. Magneto was pure evil when Lee and Kirby created him. Claremont turned him into a tragic figure and sent him down the path to redemption. Then Grant Morrison made him evil again. Then Morrison's Magneto was retconned into being an imposter so Magneto was good again... And these are just the major developments. There were a hundred "is he good or is he evil stories?" in between. I mean, X-Men is one of my favorite comic franchises, but there's a reason it's known for having a convoluted timeline.

With other mediums, and indie comics, this is less of a problem since their stories are usually not meant to last forever. When you read a Shakespeare tragedy, for instance, your main characters usually go through life changing developments.