Do you agree with Death battle Kakashi's speed?

In the analytical section of the video they claimed that Kakashi (Kakazu arc) was over 2,000x faster than sound based on the distance he moved before Kakazu's lighting could reach Shikimaru/Choji. Do you agree with their opinion?

I know some people disagree with the feat because Chakra =/= Natural lightning but that's never been stated or proven. We have one statement where Zetsu talks about Kirin's scale but scale usually means size not speed. In fact most chakra based attacks are far superior to their natural counter parts I always assumed the feat was just lighting timing but factoring in the distance they used it's possible it's a much better feat than I thought.

ig ya but i dont like deathbattle ever since hiei beat sasuke

@rawsos: That was one of their bad ones I agree.

But do you think Kakashi could be considered this fast? All views of DB aside this calculation makes sense to me.

@decaffeinated: ya

Bump

Only with Raikiri as it increases his speed and he showed to be around a close speed tier as Guy.

@joviolma: I thought the speed made the attack possible and not the other way around?

@decaffeinated: No, Raikiri as a change in nature exponentially increases the user power level and attack briefly, but Raikiri/Chidori is too fast to control and without a Sharingan is not possible to keep up with the technique accurately.

@joviolma: I know the Sharingan is needed to see what you're doing at that speed but it's the speed needed for the attack not the other way around. Sasuke was unable to use it untill he copied Lee's movement to boost his speed.

@joviolma: Furthermore in the databook it states "by running long distance" meaning the user has to build up speed for the attack not the other way around. This was retconed though because both Sasuke and Kakashi use it while standing still all the time or in short distances.

Gallery

@decaffeinated: The use of Chidori/Raikiri increases your speed briefly during the attack, and without a sharingan one can't properly aim it cuz of it. The idea of it being retconned also doesn't adds up as Sasuke and Kakashi already created several time during their initial demonstrations the Chidori/Raikiri while standing still and Kakashi already fought equally alongside 6th Gates Guy while using a Raikiri and without running long distances

@joviolma: None of the post you added prove that it's the Jutsu that gives Kakashi the speed. If anything it's the Chakra he builds up which he can do without using any jutsu just to boost his physicals.

Maybe retcon isn't the correct word but things definitely changed the first few times it's used it's described as a double edge blade because the user attacks at hard to control speeds now we see Kakashi/Sasuke use it without moving at all.

@joviolma: "This turns into a high-speed stab" which would mean that users speed is implemented into the Jutsu not that the Jutsu moves the user at high speeds.

This is further backed up by Sasuke needing to increase his speed to use it.

@joviolma: None of the post you added prove that it's the Jutsu that gives Kakashi the speed. If anything it's the Chakra he builds up which he can do without using any jutsu just to boost his physicals.

😔

Maybe retcon isn't the correct word but things definitely changed the first few times it's used it's described as a double edge blade because the user attacks at hard to control speeds now we see Kakashi/Sasuke use it without moving at all.

They're still thrusting with a high speed attack, bruh, and Sasuke can manipulate by will his change in chakra nature and shapeshift the form of his chidori allowing him to use in other ways such as the Chidori spear, but these ways like the later mentioned are inferior to their original version

@decaffeinated:

@joviolma: "This turns into a high-speed stab" which would mean that users speed is implemented into the Jutsu not that the Jutsu moves the user at high speeds.

Proved wrong by the scans brought, by using the Raikiri/Chidori while attacking one is able to apply a high speed thrust and movement that is not possible to be aimed without Sharingan.

This is further backed up by Sasuke needing to increase his speed to use it.

sSasuke increasing his speed was a mere complement for his fight against Gaara, one doesn't needs to be fast to use the Raikiri/Chidori, there's no statement or feat in the whole manga saying that you can't use without it, one can easily argue that he merely increased during training Sauce's speed to a more powerful use of the Chidori as it's speed comparable to Lee added with Chidori would allow him more chances to win against Gaara.

@decaffeinated:

@joviolma:

No. I read it. It didn't say anything about the ATTACK forcing the user to go at his max speed only that the attack is fast which is a given the Jutsu is a super fast stab Chidori does not boost speed the user is moving at his/her top speed which creates a tunnel vision in which the Sharingan is needed that's what Boruto/Obito are talking about. I've already posted the databook entry which proves this.

Neither Kakashi/Sasuke are moving at max speed while standing I have no idea what you're talking about when Sasuke stabbed Naruto it was a standard Chidori no change in nature or speed. When Sasuke used Chidori to escape Gaara's sand he couldn't even move his arm how is that a high speed movement? And he couldn't change its shape then either.

No. I read it.

It didn't say anything about the ATTACK forcing the user to go at his max speed

Well, I never said that it forces the user to go at his max speed, only that the speed is increased while using the attack, showed by the plethora of scans posted where Boro who already fought Sarada complemented about her speed while using Chidori, Mitsuki stating that it's speed is too fast to aim without a Sharingan while used, Guy confirming and calling the chidori's thrust movement impossible speed suggesting a increase in normal speed while using ETC.

only that the attack is fast which is a given the Jutsu is a super fast stab Chidori does not boost speed the user is moving at his/her top speed which creates a tunnel vision in which the Sharingan is needed that's what Boruto/Obito are talking about.

No, it's saying that the high speed movement and thrust is so fast that aim without the sharingan is not possible, the use of the sharingan being a good proof of this as well Minato's statement talking about it when Kakashi didn't had the control of it during his childhood, which made Minato call it a imperfect jutsu as Kakashi couldn't see an opponent's counter attacks do the fact he was moving too fast while using it, something only surpassed when he attained a Sharingan.

I've already posted the databook entry which proves this.

And I posted the scans that proved this wrong as well the feats and statements to suggest such so:

Neither Kakashi/Sasuke are moving at max speed while standing I have no idea what you're talking about.Sasuke stabbed Naruto it was a standard Chidori no change in nature or speed. When Sasuke used Chidori to escape Gaara's sand he couldn't even move his arm how is that a high speed movement? And he couldn't change its shape then either.

??? Chidori itself is a change in chakra nature, lol, and stab Naruto using something that has a incredible thrust speed is a speed feat as well he simple didn't run or did anything like that but would still be a high speed thrust either way, and by the time he used Chidori again to escape Gaara he was being hold by Shukaku's arm so I'm not actually seeing the point, and Sasuke didn't had the abilities to manipulate Chidori till his training with Orochimaru so that would be expected.

@decaffeinated:

@joviolma: Clearly you're the one who's not reading I said change in SHAPE not nature.

Kakashi could use the Chidori without the Sharingan it was just too dangerous due to the tunnel vision.

You have not posted a single scan that states the user cannot reach said speeds without Chidori. And the Sarada scan means nothing she was already faster than Boro. Her going in a straight line at her max speed is part of why the Jutsu is lethal.

Your argument is all over the place you're saying that Chidori increases max speed and then you're saying it doesn't.

@joviolma: Clearly you're the one who's not reading I said change in SHAPE not nature.

''Sasuke stabbed Naruto it was a standard Chidori no change in nature or speed''

Decaffeinated

Kakashi could use the Chidori without the Sharingan it was just too dangerous due to the tunnel vision.

He couldn't make good use of the move do the fact Chidori makes him move too fast to acertain his opponent's attack, a weakness overcame with the use of the Sharingan, didn't get the tunnel vision thing as proving during the attack stance, he is completely aware of his surroundings as when he noticed the kunais pinpointing their locations, bruh.

You have not posted a single scan that states the user cannot reach said speeds without Chidori.

Neither you have posted any confirming they can move like that whenever they want, lol, the fact Chidori was outright confirmed to amp Kakashi's movement during use, the complement about it's movement and thrust speed by more than one character is a good proof one doesn't achieve that conventionally with any normal movement so once more:

And the Sarada scan means nothing she was already faster than Boro.

It means a lot as Boro complemented about her speed despite seeing her fighting several times, he made no remarkable comment about the speed she moves till she activates the Chidori and Mitsuki confirming that chidori is a high speed attack that is most usable for a sharingan user due to it's speed and the hard accurate aim.

''Her going in a straight line at her max speed is part of why the Jutsu is lethal.''

Hmmmmmmm, that's a new one, not once it was said she was going at max speed, know what was said, that the Chidori is a fast jutsu, and IIRC there's no Ninja in Naruto that had trouble keep up with their own conventional speed, so the idea of the chidori she used only being fast cuz she was going at her max speed is your headcanon since this would suggest a ninja without sharingan going at his top speed wouldn't manage to aim correctly and would need a Sharingan.

Your argument is all over the place you're saying that Chidori increases max speed

and then you're saying it doesn't.

It doesn't, is just a lightning release jutsu that increases speed and attack during movement and thrust, bruh.

@decaffeinated

@joviolma: So you're not saying it increases speed but you're saying it increases speed?

Yeah make up your mind then try debating.

Minato saying Kakashi running in a straight line is dangerous means Chidori amps speed. Ok. The reason it's dangerous is because Kakashi is running at his max speed Chidori has nothing to do with that speed. Chidori has nothing to do with his legs. It doesn't give him some magic amp that increases his top speed which have you both agreed to and disagreed with in this thread.

I did say Nature that's my bad but if you read the entire post you would have read the Gaara post where I stated change in shape and only shape. They also proves that you can use Chidori without a high speed thrust it's just not as potent.

This is the exact reason why the Jutsu isn't reliable lmao imagine that.

This guy is contradicting himself non stop.

@joviolma: So you're not saying it increases speed but you're saying it increases speed?

???????

Yeah make up your mind then try debating.

Minato saying Kakashi running in a straight line is dangerous means Chidori amps speed. Ok.

So case closed, you finally got it.

The reason it's dangerous is because Kakashi is running at his max speed Chidori has nothing to do with that speed.

Headcanon, not once it was said he was moving at his max speed and then used Chidori, the technique simple increases his speed and allows high speed movements briefly as supported by the plethora of scans posted.

Chidori has nothing to do with his legs. It doesn't give him some magic amp that increases his top speed which have you both agreed to and disagreed with in this thread.

Chidori is literally people turning internal energies in their body(Physical and Spiritual/Mental) in lightning nature, of course is a amp and amp speed is literally the meaning of the technique due to it's high speed movements and thrust speed referred as impossible which wouldn't be the case if one can accomplish that conventionally with their own speed without any need for a jutsu. And what you mean by you both ?

I did say Nature that's my bad but if you read the entire post you would have read the Gaara post where I stated change in shape and only shape. They also proves that you can use Chidori without a high speed thrust it's just not as potent.

No, this simple means Sasuke used Chidori and start pulling himself from there, the reason he was having trouble escape as showed was do the fact Gaara was holding him with his Shukaku arm.

This is the exact reason why the Jutsu isn't reliable lmao imagine that.

So you agree with me that Chidori amps speed that one can't reach conventionally with their normal attack speed ? Why you even debating this then ?

This guy is contradicting himself non stop.

How does it feels to fail to prove wrong someone you claim to contradict itself and not actually counter his points ? 😔

@decaffeinated

1.) He states it doesn't increase max speed then he says it increases his speed. If it's not increasing his max speed then if can't increase his speed. If his max speed is already above said increase (which makes zero sense) then it wouldn't be an increase in speed.

2.) He stats that Kakashi is moving to fast to notice his opponents counter attacks, then states that he doesn't get tunnel vision. The what the hell do you call not noticing counter attacks?

3.) He trys to make a sarcastic comment about my "Headcanon" being that Kakashi couldn't handle the speed required then tries to use the fact that Kakashi can't see counter attacks as evidence.

3 major contradicts in 1 post.

1.) He states it doesn't increase max speed then he says it increases his speed. If it's not increasing his max speed then if can't increase his speed.

Funnily enough, my points are how it amps one speed and due the massive high speed they achieve upon use of the jutsu they can't accurately aim with this unless they have a sharingan to a more usable control. So............

If his max speed is already above said increase (which makes zero sense) then it wouldn't be an increase in speed.

Well, I didn't said that one using his max speed is faster than his speed while using Chidori/Raikiri so that's a moot point.

2.) He stats that Kakashi is moving to fast to notice his opponents counter attacks, then states that he doesn't get tunnel vision

Which I supported with scans btw as he actually noticed the attack of his teacher and enemies during his running speed.

. The what the hell do you call not noticing counter attacks?

He will not be able to control chidori in time to do anything against the opponent's counter attack, feats actually show that he is pretty aware of the events happened near him despite he not necessarily being aiming at said events so this idea of ''tunnel vision'' doesn't seems to add up.

3.) He trys to make a sarcastic comment about my "Headcanon" being that Kakashi couldn't handle the speed required then tries to use the fact that Kakashi can't see counter attacks as evidence.

I actually made a remark how he could being aware of the events happening around him in my post which you didn't read it seems, and I'm not being sarcastic with you, the only ''sarcastic'' things would be my memes, and yes, the fact he is confirmed cuz of Chidori to move too fast to ancertain counterattacks the opponents use could use on him, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

3 major contradicts in 1 post.

Based on what was said, I kinda doubt that you read the entirety of my posts, seems like you read one line and then jumped to conclusions

@decaffeinated

you've said multiple times now that it increases speed but have denied multiple times that he's going at his max speed.

? Thought we already established at this point that Chidori/Raikiri was responsible for his fast movements and thrust as proved so I'm not sure what you're actually trying to prove at this point.

That's like saying it increases his speed but not his top speed. Well then I guess if doesn't increase his speed.

Back to this logic lmao it increases your speed just not your top speed.

I mean, I don't disagree with the idea of it increases one's speed, I disagree with the idea the Chidori being a fast jutsu cuz the user is going at max speed so it's a fast jutsu when this is not the case since the user goes fast cuz of the jutsu.

So when you agree with me it's case closed?

When you finally understand something (which sadly it seems you didn't when I read the rest of your posts) that I was pointing and posting scans to prove, yes I agree with you so is not needed to keep arguing anymore, sadly it seems like I was wrong on this assumption as you didn't understood anything

👊😔

Contradiction number 4.

''Angry Mista noises''

Chidori is chakra brought to the hand and then mixed with high speed moments as a jab type attack.

Actually, Chidori is a high speed attack, mainly because it causes the user to move this fast as confirmed, so it's still a ''magical'' thing, why you're complaining about this I'm not actually sure ?

The Chakra gathering in the hand doesn't increase the speed of the attack that's all foot speed as the user is literally running at you.

Nope, it increases speed as proved before and following the plethora of scans/statements provided, no need to keep beating a dead horse huh.

Which is what I meant by the Jutsu got retconed it was originally stated to be a long range jab that uses the users speed to recklessly attack.

Headcanon, it is a jutsu that increases speed in use allowing a impossible powerful high speed thrust and it was always possible to use Chidori/Raikiri stopped as proved in the fight against Haku and Zabuza.

Gallery

And yet Sasuke used it without even moving.

He made that the first time he used bruh, he casted the jutsu stopped and then started running, it was never stated that was needed to move to use the technique.

You say this and I quote word for word "can't reach conveniently" yet you've said multiple times it doesn't increase max speed

You should quote it all:

''So you agree with me that Chidori amps speed that one can't reach conventionally with their normal attack speed ? Why you even debating this then ?''

Chidori increasing speed to the point one has a hard aim and difficult to control it without a sharingan when there are shinobi out there that can freely use their speeds without suffering said effects and no need of a sharingan, suggesting that it's not a speed the user can reach through normal means like simple running, he needs the technique to reach such high tiers of speed that would be beyond his running max speed without chidori.

. WHICH IS IT? And for you're question no I'm not. Im saying that the Jutsu doesn't increase speed the speed is users own footspeed the Jutsu takes that speed and uses it to amp the piercing properties if the Chidori.

Good for you, the plethora of scans/statements suggest that you're wrong, all of this >>> a databook statement ignoring the several feats and statements in the canon source that's the manga, a databook entry has no value when it contradicts the canon source and it is posterior debunked by the very manga, confirming that the reason why the user moves at such speeds is because of the technique(twice btw) not because of his normal speed.

It feels great to prove you wrong thanks for asking.

Then why you didn't did this yet ?

🧐

@joviolma: what's this now? Sasuke had to focus on Taijutsu just to increase his speed?

@joviolma: what's

@decaffeinated

this now? Sasuke had to focus on Taijutsu just to increase his speed?

Yes ? His opponent was Gaara who actually managed to defend perfectly against Lee, same Lee who stomped Sasuke and was blitzing him multiple times, the Chidori added with such a massive speed he attained in training would allow him to beat Gaara, but no one knew Gaara was going rampage and start turning into Shukaku and the Land of Sand would attack, otherwise Sasuke would be the victor. I believe you're assuming he trained speed to use Chidori, when it was never said you need to be fast to use said jutsu.

Do you have anything more to ask or try to add ?

This is litera-ing.

Well, already provided the scans and feats and explained the subject for you, if you still wanting to continue feel free to do so, curious to know if you still will try to counter my points

@joviolma: So know you're denying the fact that Guy states word for word that Kakashi trained him to increase his speed for the Chidori and then you're going to run away?

Sounds like I have you on the ropes.

Sasuke: *Starts charging chidori*

Guy: That's why you had him focus on Taijutsu so much AND increase his Speed.

Joviolma: Nah bruh.

@joviolma: Lastly every jutsu that boosts speed stats word for word that it boosts speed. Lighting Armour, Body Flicker, Sage Mode, Naruto's Cloak, etc. All say word for word that they increase speed. Chidori isn't stated a single to increase speed only that the user is moving fast in a straight line.

Now I've posted scans, statements, etc all pricing you wrong. Ball is in your court continue if you want it's your call.

The Chidori isn't responsible for the movement

Proved wrong with Minato and Mitsuki's statement suggesting the jutsu is responsible for such high speed feat.

if it was Kakashi wouldn't have used specialized training to increase Sasuke's speed for the Chidori.

It would auxile him to beat Gaara and providing a higher chance of victory as he was slower than Lee prior to the training and while Lee was using his weights, so yeah, obviously he would train him to increase his speed to fight Gaara and also the Chidori.

Under your logic it should have been the Chidori that made Sasuke fast yet the manga tells us it was his training.

Sasuke was fast during his fight as proved when he fought Gaara, his speed was comparable and arguable superior to that of unweighted Lee as he tagged Gaara multiple times, the Chidori was nothing but a speed amp that would allow him a higher chance of victory on this giving the impossible speed of the thrust and it's high power added with Sasuke's Lee like speed.

Except this isn't true.

Except it is as proved by the scans and statements provided in the manga, so:

We know for a fact the Jutsu can be used without moving at all this proves without a doubt that the jutsu isn't making the user move at speeds they can't handle.

So this only proves you will not move at high speed if you simple is stopped with the jutsu, bruh, not that he doesn't increase speed as the provided scans and statements of the characters prove that the jutsu plays a role in the speed attained when one is using it.

If it was how can it be used without moving at all?

By being stopped so there's no speed to be increased by the power lol.

You can't have it both ways.

You don't agree with me though you assume the Chidori is boosting speeds it's not.

Oh yes, I agree with the manga, not you since you're not accepting it, so I guess you need to accept first.

Kakashi is moving at unsafe speeds Lee even states this and states why it's so dangerous to use when he See's Sasuke do it.

????? What are you even talking about now ? When Lee said anything about Kakashi's speed or anything ?

Because without the enhanced vision of the Sharingan the user is moving in too fast to handle counter attacks.

And because he can't aim properly due the high speed of the attack, which wouldn't be the case if the attack was the user's natural speed considering ninjas in Naruto can actually run without a sharingan as well attack without having trouble to aim a target and defend themselves against counter attacks.

Half right

Yep, the right part is that it is a jutsu that increases speed, the wrong part is that it's fast cuz one is running with the lightning on their hand

it's a high-speed attack because the user is running full speed at the enemy in a straight line.

And because it increases the user's speed to the point aim is not accurate without a sharingan and because the speed one moves is too fast to counter an enemy attack, as confirmed by Minato and Mitsuki, as well Guy calling the speed of the chidori an impossible thrust, if one was going full speed with Chidori and the chidori wasn't a speed amp, Sharingan would never be needed neither would be affected by a inaccurate aim.

This is proven by Guy acknowledging the fact that Kakashi helped Sasuke get faster and Lee acknowledging the risks due to said speed.

He got fast so he could use the Chidori at a higher potential against Gaara, not because you need to be fast to use Chidori, not sure why Lee saying something about it is important when he himself dodged Gaara's attacks several times while unweighted but was having trouble bypassing his sand speed several times, so yeah, no thing such as ''he is moving so fast'' he simple is moving at high speed towards his opponent due the fact the chidori acts by allowing the user to achieve a higher speed than his normal one, but seems like you are interpreting me as saying that Sasuke is not fast.

The scans you posted say what I've been saying it's a high speed attack that the user needs enhanced vision to handle the side effects.

Not what you said, you say one moves fast and then uses Chidori alongside it when the massive speed while running with Chidori is achieved due the attack activation. There are no things as you having trouble moving with your own natural speed as proved in several stances in Naruto meaning this is a thing the Chidori causes when it's used, the user reaches high levels of speed during the movement and the use of the Sharingan allows him to act in response with this speed if needed to react to counter attacks. One doesn't simple is extremely fast by training and have trouble keeping up with his own natural running speed without a sharingan, lol.

None if the scans you posted say the Chidori amps speed.

Except they do as one moves at high speed when they start moving with the technique and the speed is too much to aim accurately or attack in response to an enemy attack.

if it's possible to use it stopped then it's not the cause of the dangerous speed now is it?

Cuz you're not running, and yes, it is, as long you're running at your opponent.

Because if it could be used at any speeds Kakashi wouldn't need enhanced vision to control the speed now would he?

Curious to know what this have to do with my point when I already said the speed tier one achieves with Chidori is too much for them to accurately aim or move to counter enemies, which wouldn't be the case with Natural running speed.

This only further supports me my dog.

So you agree that it amps speed ?

This proves that Chidori isn't forcing people to go at speeds they can't handle

I mean, he is not running, so yes, he is not applying any running and movements to travel at high speeds while charging it.

. And right before this Guy confirmed Sasuke had to increase his speed to use it.

Oh yes to beat Gaara with the Chidori, not because he needed to get fast to use Chidori, it wouldn't even add up the idea of you needing speed to cast the technique.

Why did you leave that out?

No one leaved that out, in fact I already addressed and provided my counter argument to you in the very firsts messages in this thread, reading this only proves me that you didn't read my arguments entirely and started jumping to conclusions.

Not all characters are the same but most top tiers have something to compensate for speeds out of their norm.

They still moving at their top speed regardless and are not having trouble to keep up with their own aim neither are having trouble to counter enemies which would be the case according to you assuming Chidori is only the user running naturally, in fact even when the Raikage amped his speed with Ohnoki's lighter jutsu he could still move perfectly and without inaccurace against Madara and Muu in that fight despite being moving above his original natural running speed, meaning the Chidori is definitely not something you simple run with using your own foot speed, it's increase your natural speed to the point you can barely accurately aim or counter attacks without the add of a sharingan.

Raikage can amp his synopsis, Naruto has sage mode to track people, etc.

None of them would solve a aim inaccurate and difficult to control your attack to counter people due to speed, so that's a moot point of yours

See above

Already see, still having the same conclusion, so............

none of your scans state Chidori amps speed they only acknowledge the user is moving fast.

Yes, because of the chidori ;)

Guy confirmed the user needs speed to use Chidori not the other way around.

No, you just need to know the seals to use Chidori, that's all, Mitsuki also confirming that the chidori is a fast jutsu also supported by Boro commenting on Sarada's speed despite seeing it before prior to the chidori and Minato's statement confirming that the Chidori is a jutsu with too much speed and DC but it has flaws cuz it makes Kakashi moves too fast to do anything against the opponent's counterattack, the speed has nothing to do with you achieving the jutsu or not, it's only increased when it's used as an attack against the enemies.

I just did 🤷

If that was the best you could do then you failed 😔

@joviolma: So know you're denying the fact that Guy states word for word that Kakashi trained him to increase his speed for the Chidori and then you're going to run away?

He trained his speed to use the chidori against Gaara to have a higher chance of victory giving the fact Sasuke was slower than weighted Lee, it doesn't even adds up the idea of one need to increase speed to use a chakra nature.

Sounds like I have you on the ropes.

You actually seem to be caught in a loop though, so do you have anything more you want to add ? Or nah ?

Sasuke: *Starts charging chidori*

Guy: That's why you had him focus on Taijutsu so much AND increase his Speed.

Joviolma: Nah bruh.

@joviolma: Lastly every jutsu that boosts speed stats word for word that it boosts speed. Lighting Armour, Body Flicker, Sage Mode, Naruto's Cloak, etc.

They actually amp one's power and reaction speed which was the reason why the Raikage was so hyped as even without his lightning armor his reactions were comparable to that of the yellow flash but his reactions were amped with the Lightning release and so was his power, Sage Mode is a more powerful version use of chakra that allows one a high danger sense, funny thing, it was only said to be faster than KCM and Naruto said that as Kishimoto explaining to the readers the reason he was using said mode as the high danger sense would allow to dodge in the last moment, Naruto's cloak was said to amp one's power IIRC.

All say word for word that they increase speed. Chidori isn't stated a single to increase speed only that the user is moving fast in a straight line.

Now I've posted scans, statements, etc all pricing you wrong. Ball is in your court continue if you want it's your call.

Already did, let's see you going requiem again against all the statements and scans provided focusing only in Guy's statement that can easily be explained in reasons not necessarily the idea of being fast to use Chidori(Which wouldn't even add up to being with as Chidori is a technique that can be casted and used without the need of the user start running, suggesting a big speed is not necessary to use the jutsu), while acting like the rest is non existent and didn't address a high speed movement to be achieved by the use of the technique, if we're lucky enough this thread can reach like 5 pages or more.

Neither of them stated the Chidori increased his/her speed.

The speed training was specifically done to allow Sasuke the speed needed to use Chidori. Read what Guy said my guy.

Fun fact, they did as it's a technique that allows a high speed movement too fast for the user to aim with accurate and react to counter attacks, which wouldn't be the case if one was using their natural foot speed, and nope his opponent was Gaara who actually managed to defend perfectly against Lee, same Lee who stomped Sasuke and was blitzing him multiple times, the Chidori added with such a massive speed he attained in training would allow him to beat Gaara, but no one knew Gaara was going rampage and start turning into Shukaku and the Land of Sand would attack, otherwise Sasuke would be the victor. I believe you're assuming he trained speed to use Chidori, when it was never said you need to be fast to use said jutsu, in fact the Chidori is a jutsu that if one manages to control it's shape can be cast without the use of any running movement as Sasuke proved several times.

Kakashi helped Sasuke get faster for the sole purpose of Jim using Chidori nothing else.

To beat Gaara with a powerful Chidori as it's massive speed added with the impossible speed of the thrust would allow him to break the sand barrier, so moot point is moot. Jim is also best Nardo character

Not a single scan you provided states "Chidori is amping/increasing his/her speed" instead I gave you proof that speed is required to use it and you've done nothing by use Headcanon.

It doesn't needs to say that when it the characters also use words that means the same thing lol, Kakashi and Sarada's stances being a good proof the speed reached while using chidori is too much for them to react to counter attacks or aim with accurate without the use of a Sharingan, suggesting is not something related to their normal running speed as they would managed to keep up with their own movements, so that's a moot point of yours, you so called proof is one mere statement of Guy that can easily be explained in other ways and doesn't care more value than the plethora of statements and feats provided, Guy included as he addressed the speed of the thrust Sasuke used as impossible speed, which wouldn't be the case if he was already moving around all the time with said speed.

This doesn't even make sense you're argument is all based on your misinterpretion of Minato saying "it makes you move too fast" if Minato told him not to use it because YOU think it amps speed. Now you want me to believe the Jutsu's speed amp can be controlled.

Yes, the jutsu makes him move too fast, the hard ability to aim is because of the high speed jutsu, the impossible high speed thrust is because of the jutsu, and about the part I just lined up all I have to say is ???????????. And I don't want you believe me in anything, you're free to disagree with me if you like it, I could actually send you a discord link so we can argue in the debate channel just the 2 of us and end this quickly if you want too, but you don't need to believe the jutsu is a speed amp, in all honest I'm just using you as a way to increase my post numbers in actual debates so I guess is a win regardless. And wdym by that last point ? Lol.

You're contradicting yourself over and over.

Read above^

Then why are you arguing with Guy my guy?

Big Oof. Can you not read? "When he See's asuke Do it"

I'm not arguing with Guy, I'm arguing with you, while also addressing Guy's statement with me explanation. Well, I have no fault if you can't write properly these sentences:''Kakashi is moving at unsafe speeds Lee even states'' Don't see what this changes in the fact that Chidori is still a speed amp regardless, so...........?

Explain that to Raikage needing to amp his synopsis to control his speed or Naruto needing Sage Mode to track Juubito.

When it was stated that he needed amped his synopsis anywhere in the manga to control his speed ? And Naruto used SM to sense Obito not to keep track on him, and what was giving him another advantage was his reactive power level as his sensorial power was increasing allowing him to sense Obito better and better, and obviously he would amp himself to face a opponent superior to the Juubi.

It's not Kakashi average speed it's his max speed and it causes him to have tunnel vision this is true to real life as well it's hard to control things when moving at really high speeds.

Not once it was said to be his max speed, only that it's a jutsu that causes high speed movements too fast for the user to control with accurate precision without a sharingan, other people that used their max speed or were not holding back can perfectly control their speed, so I'm not sure what are you even trying to prove at this point, Sarada also tagging Boro from a big distance before he could react when she herself was fighting against him with the willing to kill and win is a proof her max speed pales in comparison with the speed she achieved while running against him with Chidori as it tags him, in fact, she outright stated that she would need something that should be faster than he could wave signs, and used the Chidori confirming it was a technique faster than he could weave his signs, suggesting she wouldn't be able to accomplish that normally as she could by your logic simple run at him and strike him with a surprise attack regardless of his intelligence as she is naturally faster than him. And I'm also not talking about real life physical limitations, if you talking about the possibility of Chidori allow you to use your max speed then you're wrong though as Chidori is just a speed amp and I believe you're assuming you can't use your max speed in Naruto cuz of real life, by this logic the chidori would fall under the same category as the gates which we know is not the case, because the speed the user achieves is not even the speed he has within himself that is his max he can't achieve, is an speed tier achieved by the use of the technique.

Gallery

Nope read what Guy said.

Read what Guy said.

Already read, a statement that you're interpreting in a way that is not supported by the manga(The idea of you needing speed to achieve Chidori) despite the fact this is contradicted by the very manga and Guy's statement can easily be interpreted by him referring to Kakashi increasing Sasuke's speed so he could use the Chidori against Gaara and his defense with a higher probability of victory.

fixed

Are you really that insecure, bruh, are you interested in the link or nah ?

Learn to read my dude. Not a single scan you posted states the Chidori amps speed. Guy tells you word for word Sasuke needed the Speed for the chidori not the other way around. And for the second time running at your max speed isn't someone's Natural/Average speed.

I know how to read, funnily enough my conclusion didn't changed. And the scans I posted indicates a boost in speed, you could if you want try to create a threat about this subject or prove me wrong, already addressed Guy's statement so it's moot to me.

No they don't.

Not an argument

Contridiction if it could be used at any speed then your logic doesn't work. This only proves the users speed makes it stronger.

Never said it could be used at any speed ? You made that up, I said Kakashi wasn't running with it he was simple standing with the attack and so was Sasuke when he initially charged it.

Curious to know why you keep saying Chidori is too much to handle and then turn around and say they can use it at any speed which would mean it's not to hard to handle which means it's the movement speed that is.

Nope never said I did. for the 100th time it seems. If he can control the speed at which he uses it then how is the Jutsu too much to handle? This is all by your logic.

That's not what happened it's specifically implied he needed the speed for the Jutsu.

Didn't you ? Simple, he is not controlling the speed of anything cuz he didn't started running so there's no high speed movement, he is stopped with the power on his hand and didn't run at anything with it. And fear not, if you're lucky enough you can make this thread surpass 10 pages with our conversations ;) That's what happened, specially because you don't need speed to master or use chidori it was never said it did, you're interpreting Guy's statement this way while complaining about your opponent basing himself in far more scans with this interpretation about Chidori(Speed amp) when it simple means Kakashi helped Sasuke to amp his speed for a better result against Gaara.

You left it out.

Nope.

So Raikage can use his V2 without his synopsis upgrade? BSM Naruto can fight Juubito without BSM mode?

No. They acknowledge the speed required to use the Jutsu.

What kind of questions are even this ? Lol, BSM was a amp to deal with Juubito with a bigger power and the advantage of Natural counter against him, V2 is just Raikage using his full power, nothing more. And nope, the plethora of scans acknowledges the Jutsu speed ;)

Wrong you need the speed for it just like Guy implied.

Already addressed, you don't need speed to cast Chidori this was already proved in a regular basis.

And Mitsuki acknowledging the speed required only further helps my case.

Funny fact, he didn't acknowledge the speed required, he acknowledge the speed of the jutsu, and Sarada outright stated that even if she wanted to make a surprise attack it wouldn't work either way, if she could always tag her she would have done so instead of fighting with the willing to kill him and getting tagged and stomped multiple times till blitz him with Chidori.

Pot meet Kettle.

Who is Pot and why is him meeting Kettle ?

@decaffeinated

@decaffeinated: So..................Do you want that discord link ? Otherwise we can keep arguing here and reach the 5th or + page

@joviolma: Why would I want a discord link?

You can't post a single scan where it stats the Chidori is amping the speed here why would discord be any different?

@decaffeinated: Thought it would be quicker to end the discussion there unless you want to stop. So you want it or not ?

@joviolma: Not really I don't even have a discord and it seems pointless for me to create one for a debate.

@decaffeinated: Okay, so I guess I see you around here then, you don't need to agree with me in this subject anyway, it was a fun discussion regardless, if you wish to continue either way since I think is not really too much related to the topic, you can just ask for the link and when opening it you simple put a name for your avatar in there and is created without trouble.