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#51 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (5230 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers, still not better than side X-men teams. X-force>new mutants>main X-men team(with both Scott and logan)=generation x>avengers.

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#52 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: So why are there so many comments on the Dark Phoenix trailer on YouTube about where is Wolverine?

Because Youtubers are idiots.

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#53 Posted by Saberscar223 (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

I’d say bigger than even the JL atm

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#54 Posted by Kevd4wg (10750 posts) - - Show Bio

Bastion is that you?

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#55 Posted by Michaelbn (1294 posts) - - Show Bio

X-men doesn't feel X-men anymore and it's not because of their movies, frankly.

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#57 Posted by comic_book_fan (10522 posts) - - Show Bio

x-men are still better the avengers are pushed hard right now because movies are more important than the comics now but as soon as marvel makes an x-men movie then things will go back as it should be.

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#58 Posted by comic_book_fan (10522 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Edited by Paytience (4298 posts) - - Show Bio

@michaelbn said:

X-men doesn't feel X-men anymore and it's not because of their movies, frankly.

That's because Marvel purposely started having them down written in the comics to kill any future story lines for the FOX movies.

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#60 Posted by KenKenKillTiT (170 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers took their place in 2012.

to add to this, X-Men as a whole really hasn't regained its mainstream acclaim since The Last Stand. Apocalypse should have been as big of a deal as Ultron or Infinity War, but because no one can really get invested in the plot, timeline or characters outside of Magneto and Xavier it was just seen as another bland X-Men movie. People only really care about Wolverine now.

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#61 Posted by MAZAHS117 (11571 posts) - - Show Bio

XMEN dominated the 90’s to about the mid-late 00’s. When the Avengers hit, that was all she wrote for the muties

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#62 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

xmen will also be number one to me. Alot of the avengers aren't as good as people make them out to be. lots of basic characters.

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#63 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

xmen will also be number one to me. Alot of the avengers aren't as good as people make them out to be. lots of basic characters.

No more than the X-Men.

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#64 Posted by Rebake (3498 posts) - - Show Bio

@weatherwitch21: sadly, in X-Men films, if you're not wolverine, mystique, Magneto, or professor x, you get the basic character treatment. Even cyclops wasn't safe.

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#65 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: Not really beak has more personality then some avengers.

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#66 Posted by Outside_85 (23386 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers took their place in 2012.

This.

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#67 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@rebake: the movies yea but not in the comics I just wish for more shine to more characters.

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#68 Posted by njchrispatrick (284 posts) - - Show Bio

I think overall The Avengers have regained their old spot as Marvel's flagship team, but a lot of it stems mostly from recognition and them being the only real Marvel superhero team in public view. (As stated above, many people don't even really realize that the X-Men are Marvel, or just don't know about the X-Men in general.) However, I think that Marvel themselves prefer the X-Men to the Avengers, and are definitely foaming at the mouth to have the rights back in their hands.

What it really comes down to is that the Avengers, for all their popularity, are mostly just another generic superhero team like the Justice League or any other "multiple heroes come together to beat a larger threat" group. The Avengers might be Marvel's flagship, but the X-Men really built Marvel into what it is today, and are still held as one of the most intriguing and beloved pop culture sensations of the 20th century. The fact that the X-Men movies--even for their varying quality--managed to continue for as long as they have is proof of that. The X-Men are just such a unique and fascinating allegory, coupled with some of Marvel's best heroes and villains, that the property has a lot of value built into it that the Avengers took years and years to earn.

I think that the Avengers are Marvel's flagship because they are the only real option Marvel feels it has. But I think that it will only last as long as they are limited to them, and the moment that they get the FF and X-Men back the Avengers will slowly become less and less important. Were they able to keep RDJ and the other original Avengers for longer, I could see them keeping the Avengers at the forefront, but given the likelihood of the MCU simply transferring its focus to another major group rather than rely solely on secondary replacements I don't imagine the Avengers will stay at the front forever. Things might've been different if the X-Men film rights stayed at FOX, but I honestly don't think this could've happened at a better time for Marvel Studios.

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#69 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: Not really beak has more personality then some avengers.

Not really, he's a fad character.

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#70 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

I think overall The Avengers have regained their old spot as Marvel's flagship team, but a lot of it stems mostly from recognition and them being the only real Marvel superhero team in public view. (As stated above, many people don't even really realize that the X-Men are Marvel, or just don't know about the X-Men in general.) However, I think that Marvel themselves prefer the X-Men to the Avengers, and are definitely foaming at the mouth to have the rights back in their hands.

What it really comes down to is that the Avengers, for all their popularity, are mostly just another generic superhero team like the Justice League or any other "multiple heroes come together to beat a larger threat" group. The Avengers might be Marvel's flagship, but the X-Men really built Marvel into what it is today, and are still held as one of the most intriguing and beloved pop culture sensations of the 20th century. The fact that the X-Men movies--even for their varying quality--managed to continue for as long as they have is proof of that. The X-Men are just such a unique and fascinating allegory, coupled with some of Marvel's best heroes and villains, that the property has a lot of value built into it that the Avengers took years and years to earn.

I think that the Avengers are Marvel's flagship because they are the only real option Marvel feels it has. But I think that it will only last as long as they are limited to them, and the moment that they get the FF and X-Men back the Avengers will slowly become less and less important. Were they able to keep RDJ and the other original Avengers for longer, I could see them keeping the Avengers at the forefront, but given the likelihood of the MCU simply transferring its focus to another major group rather than rely solely on secondary replacements I don't imagine the Avengers will stay at the front forever. Things might've been different if the X-Men film rights stayed at FOX, but I honestly don't think this could've happened at a better time for Marvel Studios.

On paper, the X-Men sound all unique and good but in practice a lot of their stories are also the same kind of "Superheroes fighting villains" stuff...and the bottom line is that when it comes to the "Making mutants less feared" thing the X-Men really suck at their mission. In anything they only added to the fear the public had of mutants.

And I disagree that the X-Men made Marvel, they'd have done fine without them. They'd just have to put more effort into the other characters they had, and as we've seen in the movies....when Marvel puts effort into the non-X-Men characters we get to see how awesome they REALLY are and their worth in the Superhero Pantheon. I'd say Spider-Man did more for Marvel than X-Men.

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#71 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: I'm sorry umm the xmen make up the 1 of the 3 top marvel properties the others being ff and the avengers. its also the xmen comics who hold the title for most sold single comic issue in history. Saying they would be fine without them is the same as saying that about the avengers or the ff which is bollocks. Alot of comics are heroes fighting villains that was a dumb point to bring up against them. The xmen are also marvels most diverse team in almost all the ways you can think of. The xmen are unique I don't know what your reading but the xmen are the most unique the have the least amount of clone characters most of their characters are their own with unique powers, personality, costumes, and ideals.

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#72 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: I also strongly disagree with the idea spider man did more for marvel then the xmen

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#73 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: I'm sorry umm the xmen make up the 1 of the 3 top marvel properties the others being ff and the avengers. its also the xmen comics who hold the title for most sold single comic issue in history. Saying they would be fine without them is the same as saying that about the avengers or the ff which is bollocks. Alot of comics are heroes fighting villains that was a dumb point to bring up against them. The xmen are also marvels most diverse team in almost all the ways you can think of. The xmen are unique I don't know what your reading but the xmen are the most unique the have the least amount of clone characters most of their characters are their own with unique powers, personality, costumes, and ideals.

Some DO say that Marvel would've survived without the Avengers or the FF. If they can say that, then it can be said they didn't need the X-Men either.

They pay lip service to diversity, but the Cap comics were dealing with racial and cultural issues way before them. And the X-Men also suck at their mission, seeing how if anything the world is WORSE to mutants than when they started.

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#74 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: some have also said that they couldn't have survived without the xmen so that point works vice versa.

Captain was out before them and how you can speak about all those issues and not have the people who those issues represent always funny how that works. Nobody called out the xmen for not having diverse members.

I guess all superheroes suck at their job then because people continue to die and the same villians still get to do it.

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#75 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: the do diversity better then the avengers and ff combined.

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#76 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: the do diversity better then the avengers and ff combined.

Not really. They don't tackle those racial and cultural issues the way Cap did. For all the talk about what a great character Storm was, she wasn't the first major Black Marvel Heroine....Misty Knight was.

The X-Men can have a diverse group, but they don't really delve into it.

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#77 Posted by Super_ninja (3425 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers are the Top team.

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#78 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: if you say they done delve into it as of late but no alot of comics do. I would to see some examples of captain America doing it better then the xmen cause alot of what I seen of his perpetrated plenty of stereotypes. The xmen have some of the best representation of Christianity in nightcrawler contrast Muslim representations in dust and monet.

Storm is a great character not was. And what does storm being a great character have to do with misty knight being the first also first does not indicate best.

Dont delve into it what are you talking about did you not see northstar confront his sexuality and Aids. Or anole coming to terms with it. Or magneto storm sunfire and others

I would love to see all these example of all these other books delving into these things

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#79 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: if you say they done delve into it as of late but no alot of comics do. I would to see some examples of captain America doing it better then the xmen cause alot of what I seen of his perpetrated plenty of stereotypes. The xmen have some of the best representation of Christianity in nightcrawler contrast Muslim representations in dust and monet.

Storm is a great character not was. And what does storm being a great character have to do with misty knight being the first also first does not indicate best.

Dont delve into it what are you talking about did you not see northstar confront his sexuality and Aids. Or anole coming to terms with it. Or magneto storm sunfire and others

I would love to see all these example of all these other books delving into these things

No, X-Men doesn't do Christianity well with Nightcrawler as they tried to do that stupid story of a Nun using him to denounce all Christianity by making him the Pope. And Dust hasn't been relevant in years. The Kalama Khan Miss Marvel does it MUCH better.

Storm's relevance stopped in the mid 90s. She never really was that great again.

Cap dealt with racial relations in the late 60s when it really mattered in his stories with the Falcon. As well as the major issue of treating Soviets like 3 dimensional sympathetic humans which was THE big thing back then.

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#80 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: And seems like the last time cap spoke about racial relations was then and I hope your not trying to say that was the last time racial relations were important because that would be a lie.

One bad story does not discredit nightcrawlers entire portrayal.

And you mean falcon his sidekick.

Storm is still relevenat to this day that's just how some of you so called "fans" see it. And when was the last time misty was relevant.

Kamala khan is terrible. Dust has more character then she ever will.

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#81 Posted by just_sayin (2966 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by DaLastUchihaMan (373 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers, still not better than side X-men teams. X-force>new mutants>main X-men team(with both Scott and logan)=generation x>avengers.

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#83 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: And seems like the last time cap spoke about racial relations was then and I hope your not trying to say that was the last time racial relations were important because that would be a lie.

One bad story does not discredit nightcrawlers entire portrayal.

And you mean falcon his sidekick.

Storm is still relevenat to this day that's just how some of you so called "fans" see it. And when was the last time misty was relevant.

Kamala khan is terrible. Dust has more character then she ever will.

No, he deals with it a lot. Just that he did it first and in some ways better than X-Men did.

It does when it's the one big story about religion he's ever done. The rest of the time his faith is a background thing.

The story treated them as equals more than anything else.

Misty? All the time, they just don't shove it right in your face 24/7.

You got that backwards, Kamala is beyond Dust who hasn't been used in years.

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#84 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: still waiting for these examples

Pretty sure nazi captain America is worse then that.

What team is misty leading, what solo book does she have what team is currently on? Pf course storm is in your face 24/7 the baddest must always be front and center and that is not even true storm is not always in books.

Dust hasn't been in books because of lack of quality writers not her character itself also she didnt need someone elses codename to be relevant

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#85 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: still waiting for these examples

Pretty sure nazi captain America is worse then that.

What team is misty leading, what solo book does she have what team is currently on? Pf course storm is in your face 24/7 the baddest must always be front and center and that is not even true storm is not always in books.

Dust hasn't been in books because of lack of quality writers not her character itself also she didnt need someone elses codename to be relevant

He dealt with the Race Relations with Falcon and later on with colonial legacy issues with Native Americans as well. As well as how folks have misconceptions about how all Germans were Nazis in WWII (like X-Men does).

Nazi Cap wasn't Cap.

Storm only got to lead the X-Men because Chris Claremont derailed Cyclops' character, Storm never had a solo book and she's been on the Heroes for Hire and Daughters of the Dragon teams. Which promoted feminism before X-Men started doing it more seriously too.

Dust isn't in books because Kamala totally overshadowed her. And she was never relevant.

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#86 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: I'm starting to feel like you dont read alot of xmen comics storm has 4 different solo books.

That still does not indicate better when they have warpath who started off being angry snd vengeful for his people then really started to see the world different with less anger.

So storm being leader on more then one occasion was only because Claremont wanted to derail cyclops even when she led the team in extreme xmen her own against professors teachings. That comment regarding cyclops in a cop out.

Doing feminism better then the xmen. The xmens strongest members are females with depth and character. They definitely didnt do that better please.

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#87 Edited by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: all those books havent been around for a while they were gone before dust stop being in comics

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#88 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: I'm starting to feel like you dont read alot of xmen comics storm has 4 different solo books.

That still does not indicate better when they have warpath who started off being angry snd vengeful for his people then really started to see the world different with less anger.

So storm being leader on more then one occasion was only because Claremont wanted to derail cyclops even when she led the team in extreme xmen her own against professors teachings. That comment regarding cyclops in a cop out.

Doing feminism better then the xmen. The xmens strongest members are females with depth and character. They definitely didnt do that better please.

No, she doesn't have one solo book. She's on teams but that's not a Solo book.

Doesn't really matter when Warpath was killed off super fast.

Nope, her method of proving she was a more worthy leader than Cyclops in the first place wouldn't have worked on any real villains. It only worked because Cyclops chose not to go all out.

Kamala handled the Muslim girl thing a lot better than Dust. And Cap was doing feminism FIRST, not wholly better.

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#89 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: we all know storm can beat cyclops with her powers. Again you didnt answer all the other occasions storm was leader.

Storm has 4 solo books you dont know what your talking about look it I thought in all that time you would have looked it not hard.

We were talking about misty knight not cap and again the xmen still do it better

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#90 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: we all know storm can beat cyclops with her powers. Again you didnt answer all the other occasions storm was leader.

Storm has 4 solo books you dont know what your talking about look it I thought in all that time you would have looked it not hard.

We were talking about misty knight not cap and again the xmen still do it better

Like I said, the particular method she used to defeat Cyclops was one that wouldn't have worked on an actual villain. We were supposed to see it as proof he'd slipped, but it was Claremont just wanted him out of the way ASAP.

Nope, she doesn't even have 1. She's on team books, she was in BP for a while...but has no lasting solo series.

Misty Knight did handle it earlier, and she didn't have powers to back herself up unlike Storm so it was more meaningful. Especially since she didn't have a fancy mansion to hide in, unlimited money and a backstory of being some Storm Goddess.

Nope, Kamala defeats anything Dust ever did.

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#91 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: everyone is always so pressed that storm became leader it still doesn't take away that she leads teams has nothing to do with cyclops and she stepped away from the xmen to lead.

she has 4 again you don't know what your talking about.

misty defiantly didn't do it better then storm or most other xmen females. Storm grew up with no parents and no money living on the streets of Cairo misty wasn't doing that. Misty not having powers just means she useless in alot of fights that all. Storm has also already proved he is effective without powers. Storm is the better character she will always be in more be more popular have more people to care about her those are just the facts. Has misty even been in anything outside of comics not really.

Also again your lack of knowledge is showing that was warpaths brother thunderbird.

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#92 Posted by ANTHP2000 (22851 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio
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#94 Posted by samhmd1 (637 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: everyone is always so pressed that storm became leader it still doesn't take away that she leads teams has nothing to do with cyclops and she stepped away from the xmen to lead.

she has 4 again you don't know what your talking about.

misty defiantly didn't do it better then storm or most other xmen females. Storm grew up with no parents and no money living on the streets of Cairo misty wasn't doing that. Misty not having powers just means she useless in alot of fights that all. Storm has also already proved he is effective without powers. Storm is the better character she will always be in more be more popular have more people to care about her those are just the facts. Has misty even been in anything outside of comics not really.

Also again your lack of knowledge is showing that was warpaths brother thunderbird.

It had everything to do with Cyclops. The way she got the leadership was by derailing his character because Claremont wanted all the old X-Men gone. It's not a statement about her leadership skills.

She had 4 that never lasted long.

Storm grew up with parents, she lost them young but she had them and then her powers activated very soon after so she wasn't in any real danger. Misty grew up a black woman in NYC in the pre-Civil rights Era and didn't have any powers to get people to worship her as a Goddess. A harder life. And Misty has shown she's fine without powers in a fight. Storm got a boost from being in the X-men but that's more to the team and less on her as her own character.

Yes, Misty's in the Luke Cage TV show.

And both Thunderbird and Warpath were both not well done characters with the Native thing. Especially not compared to how Cap handled the issue.

Those comics you brought up? Short lived and canceled.

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#95 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: it doesnt matter if it was short lived you were wrong period.

Storm lost them at 5 had to survive on the street she didnt get her powers till she was a teenager and didnt known what was going. That's a lie because of it was just the team other people would be on her level. You are just a storm hater that's it.

1 tv show for all of storms numerous appearances

Doesnt matter if it's short lived it's more then she has period.

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#97 Posted by weatherwitch21 (651 posts) - - Show Bio

@samhmd1: Warpath is a well done character who while still in touch with his culture still let go of the anger and fights for the better of people while still able to kill if need be. Moonstone is another example of a great native character and after losing her powers refused to be sidelined and continue to fight extremely powerful enemy's things misty do not face.