Do Naruto fans not care about Haki in debate threads?

I'm just curious because Naruto vs One Piece threads always have naruto fans just completely ignoring how haki is needed to hurt logia. It's so common that I'm just wondering if they purposefully ignore it or if they just dont understand.

No one cares

It is the same exact concept as chakra so I am pretty sure any high level Naruto fighter should be able to figure out how to hurt a logia.

@the_hajduk:

But it isn't though. Haki has 3 distinct, independent forms, and 1 is only accessible to people with certain genetic traits. On top of that chakra doesn't allow people to see into the future, hit intangible targets, or make people pass out through sheer willpower.

@hypnos0929: It is the same concept though. It’s all different translations of the life energy present in classic eastern beliefs. Chi, ki, chakra, and haki all mean the same thing. They just manifest in different ways in different franchises. Different characters gain different superpowers, but it’s all from the same energy.

@the_hajduk: I agree that’s how I see it

Also they have ways around it via elemental advantages.

I can smell a huge amount of "butthurtness" in this thread...

Translation: "Naruto characters can defeat random logia user, but i don't like it and i think logia users are impossible to defeat if you are from Naruto verse. So i made this thread in order to drop my anger."

TRUE

Does Hypnos still not understand how logic works?

We'll see.

The only people that blatantly ignore it are usually obvious low tier debaters or trolls, most of the time a counter of some kind is presented.

this is just saying oh insert character can't hurt Logia for not having haki!

Most logia's in one piece are elemental logia's or some other kind of partially tangible logias. Who can be defeated using an element that cancels theirs or disperse them to such a degree that they cannot reform (because they lack the feats to do so). Other than that most Naruto fans agree that characters from Naruto cannot kill someone like Kizaru as he is literally light. But that still doesn't mean hax and illusions won't work on him.

"hit intangible targets"

Not completely intangible. They still exist and can very well be hurt by using the elements that cancel theirs or dispersing them enough that they cannot reform (cause no feats. Haki hits the actual person inside the logia directly. It's a concept that only works in-verse. It wouldn't work on hitting anything elementally intangible outside the verse btw, it will never work on spacialy intangible beings at all.

Also, sage of six paths chakra allows characters to make contact with beings that do not even exist in the same plane of existence(limbo) and reside in a parallel world of limbo. That is far greater than anything haki has ever shown in terms of hitting the intangible. But that is also inverse so it won't work in other verses unless ALL energies are equalised.

"or make people pass out through sheer willpower."

Well the sheer willpower thing is conquerors haki. Its conquerors haki which won't even work on fodder ninja from Naruto because of the existence of things like the will of fire inside the verse, where even fodder have extremely strong willpower.

Also, in part 1 Naruto, we see Kakashi's chakra and bloodlust making sasuke feel like committing suicide (he was going to, Kakashi stopped him).

Orochimaru's chakra/presense showed sasuke and Sakura their death.

Orochimaru's anger showed Kakashi his death.

Hiruzen and Orochimaru glaring at each other started breaking the roof-tops on where they were standing on and on the nearby buildings.

Tobirama lifting a finger created a gush of wind so strong that it left Sasuke, suigetsu and orochimaru baffled at his chakra.

Hashirama casually stopping this tobirama literally liquefied suigetsu and scared the shit out of everyone there.

So while chakra hasn't knocked out anyone per say, it has shown other similar effects just as great or even better than haki's knocking out technique. Also haki has really ever knocked out no named or named fodder of the verse, never anyone relevant enough. While we have feats of chakra intimidation and similar effects working on extremely strong and will-powered characters.

So by your logic Chakra and Chi, from DBZ, are the same despite the fact they act nothing alike? Just because theres a similarity in concept there isnt a similarity in application. For example: A heart surgeon and a cardiologist are both capable doctors in different fields, they both work on people, both can save lives and both can be experts but you wouldn't confuse the two.

Also if I am to play the devil's advocate and play in your favor, as to say they are the same just applied differently, then that doesn't explain the outlier which are keki-Genkai and Conquerors haki. Theres also the issue that chakra is never seen to enhance physical durability, but rather chakra is used to create a cloak of sorts.

Not really, generally speaking a random logia could be killed by a smart individual. They arent immortal and there's a reason "The New World" is only for smart people and skilled devil fruit users. On an open battle field I'd bet more on a random logia vs random ninja. But it really just depends on the logia I'd suppose. Like I couldn't see Crocodile, as seen in Alabaster, beating any ninja on Kakashi's level assuming full knowledge for both sides. I also dont think Blackbeard, pre-Marine Ford, should be able to beat those above Kisame just because he's actually touchable and he's pretty overconfident.

As for the bigger logia names, the orginal 3 admirals, Sabo, Eneru, Caesar, Ace and Smoker it depends on who they fight whether they win or lose.

How does logic dictate that Haki is equal to Chakra when they are used differently, affect their environment differently, trained differently, and are explained differently. That's like saying Copper is Steel because they're both metals.

Depends on the logia and its nature. I doubt Haku and Zabuza couldn't beat Crocodile if they are told that water solidifies him. Also logia act pretty differently depending on their nature. Caesar can be more dangerous than Eneru depending on the environment and opponent, and the vice versa can also be true. Also it really depends on the logia, how exactly could, for example, Kakashi hurt Caesar? Theres no reasonable explanation.

Generally speaking, I've yet to see a single debate where Naruto fans admit that logia are a "superior breed" of people. They always assume the people will stand still and take hits rather than dispersing themselves or using Observation haki to see it coming.

What really grinds my gears is people act like observation haki doesn't even exist. Forget the application of COA and COC, it's like everyone forgets logia with observation haki are basically ultra instincting out here. Even Eneru was using it, or as he called it Mantra, like a joke to move around hits.

But regardless fair points regarding some other hax and illusions.

In regards to paragraph 1: Well I wouldn't expect haki to work on Tobi/Obito

In regards to paragraph 2: Limbo never made sense to me because if the "clones" really do exist in an alternative dimension then it's not parallel as described. It would be more like Layered or Adjacent or possibly Perpendicular but that's just me thinking. As for it being more impressive wouldn't that depend on how you look at it? Limbo isnt like Kamui where it's extremely far apart. If it's parallel that means it should be easier for the "average" person to reach right? Again just thinking.

In regards to paragraph 3: The will of fire is stupidly vague. I mean doesn't everyone have a spark of willpower because of their family, friends, etc. After looking it up more it just sounds like a general reason for fighting, like how the Vikings fought to pillage or how the Marines in OP fight for "Justice".

As for the examples:

Weren't all those moments one offs that never get mentioned again? Also Suigetsu is literal water, liquefying him is just "not impressive" in a way. Now that I think about it he's kinda the closest to a logia and we have seen a logia lose control of their body out of fear, Monet, and that wasnt due to CoC it was due to pure fear of being potentially killed. So I guess if one could intimidate a logia enough they might be able to "win" but I mean I dont necessarily think many of the bigger Logia names have much to fear considering they've all seen Death, cough cough Whitebeard. But again reasonable point and not invalid or invaluable.

@hypnos0929: "Generally speaking, I've yet to see a single debate where Naruto fans admit that logia are a "superior breed" of people"

There is no real need to accept that in a VS battle.

"hey always assume the people will stand still and take hits rather than dispersing themselves or using Observation haki to see it coming."

Both of them are useless against superior speed and large AOE attacks (dodging them requires superior speed as well). Just because you MIGHT see something coming doesn't mean you can counter/dodge it. You seem to overestimate logia dispersion and observation haki.

"What really grinds my gears is people act like observation haki doesn't even exist"

If the opponent is faster it very well be equal to not existing.

"Forget the application of COA and COC, it's like everyone forgets logia with observation haki are basically ultra instincting out here"

Both are completely different but even in the case of ultra instinct, it's pretty much useless (when it comes to speed) if the opponent is superior in speed.

"Even Eneru was using it, or as he called it Mantra, like a joke to move around hits."

Again, against opponents who are slower than him or similar to him.

"Limbo never made sense to me because if the "clones" really do exist in an alternative dimension then it's not parallel as described"

It's not a different dimension. The limbo exists in a separate plane of existence.

"It would be more like Layered or Adjacent or possibly Perpendicular but that's just me thinking"

It's none of that. It's overlapping. The Limbo plane overlaps the real universe. You can call it layered as well.

"As for it being more impressive wouldn't that depend on how you look at it? Limbo isnt like Kamui where it's extremely far apart. If it's parallel that means it should be easier for the "average" person to reach right? Again just thinking."

If we go by strict distance, the kamui would be in fact farther to reach but they are both completely different except in how they work. Kamui is a completely separate dimension/universe. While limbo is still in the same universe(it exists everywhere in that universe) but at a different plane of existence. If someone can touch the limbo, he need not touch kamui and if someone can touch kamui, he need not touch limbo. Maybe the limbo is not superior in phasing but it's a superior ability because when attacking from kamui one needs to materialise (unless you have both the mangekyo at the same time) while the limbo can stay intangible while it can completely touch you the way it wants.

"The will of fire is stupidly vague. I mean doesn't everyone have a spark of willpower because of their family, friends, etc"

The will of fire has literal feats though. When pain attacked the village, fodder ninja even upon knowing that they are going to die, refused to give pain information about their comrades. That's extreme willpower in the face of death.

"After looking it up more it just sounds like a general reason for fighting, like how the Vikings fought to pillage or how the Marines in OP fight for "Justice"."

That's not how it works. The will of fire has feats to prove why its a strong willpower. A reason for fighting which does not extend to everyone is not enough, there will power is still fodder level, hence why claiming that conquerors haki will affect the fodder from the leaf village just because they work on fodder from one piece is a flawed argument.

"Weren't all those moments one offs that never get mentioned again?"

Nope, these are things that chakra/intimidation has shown it can do. And multiple characters have done it throughout the series from part one to end of shippuden. Just because it's not explicitely stated or explained (it has, they literally state that their bloodlust is too strong or that their chakra is way too powerful), doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

"Also Suigetsu is literal water, liquefying him is just "not impressive" in a way"

Again, that's not how it works. Suigetsu is that one character who is like a logia from one piece. Suigetsu is a normal human and turning him into water through pure intimidation/chakra exposure is a feat. If a person using haki can turn akainu shitless forcing him to start becoming a puddle of magma because he can't bear the said haki, will you say the same that he is just magma so it's not that big of a feat for the other person's haki? Nope, suigetsu doesn't turn into water for no reason. He needs to think about it or someone has to hit/force him to.

"Now that I think about it he's kinda the closest to a logia and we have seen a logia lose control of their body out of fear, Monet, and that wasnt due to CoC it was due to pure fear of being potentially killed. So I guess if one could intimidate a logia enough they might be able to "win""

The intimidation is through the weight of chakra. The entire room that they were standing in started to break just because hashirama flexed his charka. I was just giving an example of chakra doing something similar to haki but it's not the same.

"but I mean I dont necessarily think many of the bigger Logia names have much to fear considering they've all seen Death, cough cough Whitebeard"

Nah, I never claimed that chakra intimidation or flexing will kill or scare many of the top tiers of the verse. I was just trying to give an example of something similar to haki. That's all.

Though there could be a case that seeing something like the ten-tails or it's amount of chakra (hypothetically seeing it's amount) might scare some of the top tiers (not someone like whitebeard who doesn't get scared no matter what).