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Avatar image for madeinbangladesh
#51 Edited by MadeinBangladesh (12493 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like them most of the time, but they do sell a lot.

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#52 Posted by Stormmagician (415 posts) - - Show Bio

The only Marvel events I really like are the Cosmic ones like Infinity, and Annihilation.

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#53 Posted by amazing_webhead (9694 posts) - - Show Bio

It all depends on how often they occur. Once every year or 2 is fine, but one every few months is a problem.

What they should do is make a Marvel vs DC videogame.

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#55 Posted by Paul2814 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

Event Cross Overs I'm Fine with, there are a few tie in titles added to it, which I can decide whether or not to pick up one or all of them. But it's the title crossovers I dislike. Coming up DC have Superman Doomed event happening on 3 titles I believe (Superman, Action Comics and Superman/Wonder Woman) with a standalone issue. I only pick up Superman/Wonder Woman and couldn't particularly care for this event and don't want to pay extra for a few issues of other titles not on my pull list, so therefore I've dropped SM/WW because of this, which is a shame because I enjoyed the first 6 issues. I'm cool with the way Batman does crossovers as I can just read the one title and follow the story, but when Green Lantern has part 1 then part 2 is on GL Corp is just hate it.

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#56 Posted by SynCig (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

Very interesting read. I think that it is helping the industry in the very immediate short term. Much the same way Marvel is utilizing their annual relaunching for a cheap short term boost in sales. They are similar because I think 10 to 15 years from now people will look back at it as a negative overall for the industry. Using strategies like relaunches and a constant flow of events are band-aids for the real problem of meager comic book sales. Once people lose interest in the gimmick, the sales will naturally dip and all comic publishers need to find a more viable solution, instead of just focusing on the here and now. I love comics and I want the industry to flourish but I think most of the people in charge have a very short sighted view of things and it will hurt the industry in the long term.

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#57 Posted by danhimself (21433 posts) - - Show Bio

to this day my favorite events are Onslaught and AoA....Onslaught had a great lead up...we had years of Bishop searching for the X-traitor and the subtle signs of Xavier going crazy...then it hit and it brought every book that Marvel was publishing in on the fun with signs of Onslaught's "onslaught" showing up everywhere

imo though I think that it would be best if publishers spaced them out a bit more...have one only every five years or so and use that time to sprinkle hints and clues throughout the books that will be effected by the crossover...give us something to look forward to and a reason to reread the series again to look for those hints and clues

also there needs to be long lasting repercussions to the characters or universe....Onslaught had the disappearance/deaths of the Avengers and Fantastic Four who were gone from the regular 616 for a year following the end of the event and Onslaught is still popping up here and there in different forms from time to time

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#58 Posted by AlKusanagi (732 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm all for self-contained events done as a mini-series or something, but I really hate when they have to be shoehorned into a title, especially when said title barely has anything to do with the event in the first place. Also, not a fan of events spanning several titles, but you have to pick up every title to get the main story, since you're either forced to get titles you never buy, or miss large chunks of it.

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#59 Posted by CelticJedi (25 posts) - - Show Bio

I would agree that cross-over fatigue is something of an issue, at least for me. Marvel has been stacking the events up lately and I feel like the quality has diminished from what I remember in the past. Events such as Age of Apocalypse, Onslaught, and whenever Thanos configures the Infinity Gauntlet are supposed to be rare and fun. Like you said the Secret Invasion was fantastic because it was so much fun treating every comic like a mystery. Yet recently I feel like cross-over events are simply holes in the storylines of my trade paperbacks. I start to not care about an issue or two that my favorite characters were part of in an event because there is constantly an event. DC has had some remarkable ones as well, but I'd like to see something new that doesn't necessarily mean reality has to alter like so many seem to end with.

I think well thought out and massive cross-over every other year would be reasonable. It then becomes something like a movie, something you wait for and you get excited to read. And I might want to pick up that event and read it rather than just skip over it like I've done with so many over the past few years.

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#60 Posted by spidershamrock (2267 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't been a good Marvel event since Civil War, stop the events for at least 2 years and develop a really solid one that has complexities beyond heroes fighting each other for some arbitrary reason that hasn't really mattered before.

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#61 Posted by LyraFay (2643 posts) - - Show Bio

I've only been reading comics for three years and despite not reading much and none at all. I feel that these large cross-overs pull away from the creativity of the solo comic books, there should be talks among the editorial, writers and artists in order to keep everything clean cut.

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#62 Posted by spidermonkey2099 (641 posts) - - Show Bio

Comic publishers do tend to get a little too event-happy, putting one right after the other, disrupting the flow of several individual titles. When that happens, even with a good story, I think it hurts more than helps. But if they do events in moderation and have a good story, then they help.

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#63 Posted by Manchine (6326 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes crossovers are a bit too much. I liked it when it was once a while not some major event like every year.

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#64 Posted by fustacluck (17 posts) - - Show Bio

It was Civil War that made me stop reading Marvel Comics. I could see by then that Marvel was becoming an annual event company, and was already sick of the attempts at shocking changes to characters when Spiderman unmasked, and that was the final straw. Rightly or wrongly, I felt that was so out of character, and that it was so disrespectful in the way that all of that was thrown away for a cheap headline-maker. Unfortunately all of their individual titles were completely tied in to this event that I regarded as bullshit, and with no real alternative voices to be heard in the Marvel Universe I just switched my focus more on onto DC, although I don't read as much of that as I used to either, and maybe the events can be at least partially attributed to that as it got too expensive trying to keep up with one story over multiple titles.

I also think the event culture is stifling creativity, at least to some degree. Many of the classic runs of comics have no connection to any other continuity, allowing the creators to use their talent and imagination to the full.

It just needs to get back to having them be once every few years, maybe longer. Then they would feel more special, whilst giving the characters time to develop on their own terms.

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#65 Posted by micah007123 (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

@leokearon: AvX was a pretty epic 12 issue story. When you read all of them at the same time, its really not that dragged out. To me DC needs to fix their events

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#66 Edited by JulieDC (1286 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't read events, the only one I have to date is Flashpoint (only because I didn't know it at the time) and the only other story I may consider reading is Blackest Night. I do tend to enjoy crossovers when done well such as the 90s Bat-family crossovers although I suspect the biggest reason those stories worked was because there was one writer writing for a large majority of the comics crossing over with each other.

Events and crossovers can work but its all a balancing act. Its a matter of not causing fatigue to the reader. That is why I love filler comics after a major story arc, just to have time to debrief and take it all in. The audience needs a chance to wind down and make sense of what just happened or didn't happen. Events should be like a special treat you'd expect maybe once every 2 years. And major crossover stories should only deal with like titles like the Bat-family crossovers of the 1990s. The crossover itself should only take a few months (no more than 3 months) otherwise it defeats the point of crossing over with other titles.

Most importantly, events should not interrupt regular story arcs going on. People say that if you don't like an event, then don't read it, but when said event's tie ins result in your regular issue being delayed a few months, then its a problem. Tie ins should allow you to explore aspects that normally could not be done outside of the event but at the same time should be extra rather than displace or delay the current stories.

In other words, as with all things in life, moderation is the key.

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#67 Posted by Yung ANcient One (5308 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup, totally agree. There is no Yes or NO. Events have their pro's and their con's that is it because honestly, most people are tired of events but they keep buying them.

I'm guilty of it too, in a way. I mean I haven't bought anything even related since Secret Wars but I'm not gonna lie, I'm eager to read Battle of the Atom. (+)

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#68 Posted by eamon542000 (336 posts) - - Show Bio

@cantdance93: I dropped GL books cause it felt like non stop crossovers

I find events to be good when they feel like the natural progression of the story; but its sucks because even if the writer of the event has a good story sometimes its not up to them what the crossovers/side issues are exactly. Case and point Spider Island was a good story(IMO) that you only needed to read ASM for(and Venom to a lesser extent) it. But so many other titles wasted issues on it; Herc spent 2-3 issues on the Spider Island crossovers(after having spent 3-4 in Fear Itself). It really bummed me out cause I enjoyed the first 2 non crossover issues and after that never felt like it got a chance to grow naturally and got cancelled.

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#69 Posted by Herx (531 posts) - - Show Bio

They damage the industry in so many ways. Now i have read some crossovers, be they company wide or certain gropings within the company (i.e. the batman books) which have been good and interesting, but I've also read some which were just irrelevent, unnecessary and a case of "rinse and repeat" as far as the stories are concerned. In the current comic climate we get around a dozen crossovers every year and even though these crossovers are meant to "change the status quo forever (i.e. until the next event)" we have no idea what the current status quo is as we leave one crossover and just wander straight into another one. No rest, no time to recover and no time to consider what the major outcome and results of these events are. For example; in Forever evil we know whats going to happen. The crime syndicate is beaten, dick grayson is not dead and the justice leage roster changes to that superman is out and lex luthor is in. BUT we know (especially with Johns, who doesnt finish a story but instead just writes the beginning of another one) that this will just flow into "Dark Reign: DC edition", then "Siege: DC Edition", "Age of heros" etc. There will be no rest and because there would be no rest we have no idea how the outcome of these stories would actually affect the universe. How many justice league issues will we get with lex luthor as its leader before hes whisked away in another event? How will the world react to their heroes after the events of this major catastrophy? How will the... oh wait here comes a new event!!! With no status quo present whatsoever why should we care about these events?

After Flashpoint we get a (as DC advertises it) brand new shinny and better universe *crickets, crickets* but before we could get settled into it we were thrown 2 crossover events (not company wide): Night of owls and the culling. One was an example of a good crossover event which didnt impare much on the actual major stories and, if anything, added more to the mythos of the character and his related titles. The other was an event which tried to "shake up the status quo" of 3 titles which had barely even begun and which didn't even give their characters proper "down time" to mull over the events of said crossover before flinging them into other events/cancellation. I've already poked fun at the issues with the constant stream of crossovers which was Geoff Johns run on the book (good crossovers none the less... except for brightest day) but the fact still stands: green lanterns status quo is meant to be him being a space cop, saving ailien worlds from different badies and such, yet with the constant flow crossovers we have to have the character tell us that himself rather than have us watch him doing it. Trinity War was pretty much set up from the beginning of the new 52, a new universe in which we were promised that no major crossovers were going to happen straight away (que the culling and night of owls 6 months later) yet in the set up to trinity war we had "throne of Atlantis" a justice League X Aquaman crossover, followed by trinity war which was then followed by the totaly new event Forever Evil which is, essentialy "Avengers Dark Reign + JLA vs the Crime Syndicate". We have had no time to see how these events have affected certain characters and because of that lack of time we dont care about them anymore.

Now if your playing a long game such as say 20 issues of JL after the events of forever evil with Lex Luthor as leage leader comprised of single issue stories to 3/4 parters max after which the next event (be it major or minor) comes up at east then we've had 20 issues i.e. 20 months worth of new world building: 20 months of character development after the last major event. 20 months to actually give a damn. Then we'd care about events. For example, Marvel didn't get to issue 6 of superior spider man and say "ok, time for otto to go and peter to come back now". We waited 30 issues for that. 30 issues of wanting to get petter back whilst also (even if unwillingly for some of us) giving a damn about what ottso superior spiderman was doing. With the constant sluth of events we dont get that breathing/ "giving a damn" time and in most cases it just shows how little of an effect the actual event had on the universe (looking at you age of Ultron).

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#72 Posted by Anjales_II (1026 posts) - - Show Bio

From a business point of view, it is understandable why they do them. Not only does it give them more sales, but also, if a book isn't selling well, having a crossover label on it gives it more attention, and can help its sales.

But for me personally, I'd prefer it, if they wanna do a crossover event, just give it, its own mini-series without touching the other titles. For example, Secret Wars, the event that is the reason why Marvel does all these events. It had its own series without interrupting mainstream continuity. That way, those not interested in the story don't have to buy the series. And if you wanna do a tie in for the event involving a particular character, just launch a one shot featuring that character in the event instead of having it interrupt the character's book. For example in Fear Itself. Instead of having a story in Spider-Man's main book they had a tie in called Feat Itself: Spider-Man. Or the Shadowland tie ins. Tie ins are supposed to be "bonus" anyway.

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#73 Posted by ironzitoun (2 posts) - - Show Bio

It's getting to a point that i feel like even the writers are getting lost between events, I'm gonna talk about Marvel since it's what I read the most , but don't they have continuity check before writing new stories ?

Can someone tell me what are the Civil War's consequences still "active" ? except for the Texas super hero team i've seen in scarlet spider ...

CIVIL WAR :secret identity , should we keep it ? share it with authorities like S.H.I.E.L.D and US Government ? Iron Man built a clone of Thor to express his points, said clone kill Goliath. Cap surrender after seeing that the event fight is pointless. BAM Captain america is dead !

Iron Man becomes director of S.H.I.E.L.D, start the Initiative, Give Bucky His Captain America suit cause "we need a captain america".

SECRET INVASION : some heroes (and Jarvis) were replaced by skrull to take over Earth lead by 5 way agent Drew , Spider-woman.(so the skrull queen was actually a triple-four way agent ?) But don't worry the originals and some heroes we wanted to bring back (hi again, Mockingbird) were just waiting in a skrull spaceship.but they never tried to escape. Norman Osborn who was head of the Thunderbolts , join in final fight , get the best headshot of the party and is appointed new director of SHIELD. Rename it H.A.M.M.E.R to embrace the change , no wait that's the punchline of secret invasion.

Iron man put his memories on a HDD and erase it from his mind ?(I'll have to read that part again) Also hook up with Hill and Pepper and madame Masque in less than 10 issues !

DARK REIGN : avengers are hunted , but not by Osborn, he's too busy now. He let The HOOD (a guy with a magical red hood and 2 guns) in charge of finding the shattered heroes (wait why does it sound familiar ?).But since they're hiding at Strange's place they're safe until next event. Spidey reveal his identity to the new avengers (again ?! Thank you OMD).

Mind played by Loki , Osborn decide to invade (SIEGE) Asgard , nothing less , now a few undred feets over OK.

Captain America"Rogers" is Reborn just in time for the final fight ! Thor is here too ! OMG Iron man is gonna be in trouble !!

Well no since he's sick, let's plug Cap's shield to his reactor and hit it with Mjolnir to save him so he can use his 80's Armor (fan service on ) Or was it at the end of Secret invasion ?

Steve Rogers is asked by the President himself to take the position of "top cop" and Bucky stays as Captain America for a little bit more. Oh and Everybody is friend again, It's the HEROIC AGE ! (won't last)

For a Marvel reader all of this , and even more happened in 3-4 years. I've had the Event Fatigue for a while now, even if I still read them, i'm really considering passing on original sin, the solicitations themselves will give me the main story.

They should try to keep it simple sometimes, like with the end of superior Spider-man , they could explore how Parker is going to reconnect with the Avengers and now the Mighty Avengers as well (where Cage seems to have forget his identity for the third time)but no need to do a one shot for that (i'm looking at you Inhumanity : superior Spider-man ) Also :

Age of Ultron Consequences : Beast go back in time to get the first X-men to 2014, yeah cause he's so smart he knows it won't do any harm to the timestream.

This just show me that either they don't talk between writers and editors or they just don't care anymore.

I miss friday night poker with the Thing, Daredevil, Spidey ,Black Cat and Angel without it being a 0.5 Issue with 6 covers + 3 sketch variant.

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#74 Posted by kcjr (378 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish they would do the events like they did in the late 80's/early 90's with The Evolutionary War, and Atlantis Attacks. The stories spanned through that year's annuals and nothing more. No mini-series, and no interrupting the main series.

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#75 Posted by Smurfboy (480 posts) - - Show Bio

Great article, Mat! In my humble opinion, too much of Crossover events can be very overwhelming and difficult to follow what issue to buy next. It's like "read Batman #23. And then read next to Superman #343, and then, Wonder Woman #44, and then Batman #24." Eventually, you're starting to think, "Okay, please stop jumping around too much! Can't I enjoy my own favorite hero for once?!"

Also, money can be an issue. If, for example, a big crossover event(s) are starting to pour out every single week so fast in little time, it can hurt my wallet. I pay all bills, foods, toys for my son, etc., and it's no way that I can keep up with every issue (especially $3.99!) in so little time. Currently, I am following Batman (Scott Synder) and Wolverine (Paul Corner). I can only afford to buy both titles at the moment and if they're planning to do big crossover events, then I know it'll going to hurt my wallet a bit.

Now for the good side. I like big crossover events because I love big story! It makes you want to sit near the edge of the seat, wanting to know what's going on next! I do like crossover events but all I'm asking is please don't "over" do it too much.

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#76 Posted by mjbiebs (51 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like it if it was like the world cup. Have it every four years, and over that time while the comics grow an amazing creative team can link all of the different stories. You can have mini crossovers over those four years like the xmen battle of the atom or something. I don't know four years might be a little too long, but right now the crossovers are very tiring in my opinion.

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#77 Posted by BlackLegRaph (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

Every good thing should be in moderation. The events lose their charm and appeal when they become a regular Sunday afternoon affair.

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#78 Posted by nappystr8 (1548 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't read an event comic, excluding Trinity War, since Fear Itself. My only regret is that I picked up Trinity War. I used to love events, but the haphazard way in which they have started to release them with emphasis on bleeding consumers over telling good stories with consistent art has spoiled it for me.

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#79 Posted by ARMIV2 (10074 posts) - - Show Bio

Events like those, I feel, are so much better when they are genuine. By that I mean they work better when they are built up right, can work with the characters involved while making the characters work with the event itself, and most importantly be spaced out a good while away from any other event so as the dust can really settle.

You have to let wounds heal. You can't just let them bleed on as you go to take care of yet another immediate issue, 'cause that's just ridiculous. A friend just died? Mourn! I know that these are superheroes, but they still feel. Let what you've written mean something for them as well, because then it further creates a character and that lets us all get behind them more.

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#80 Posted by ARMIV2 (10074 posts) - - Show Bio

It's getting to a point that i feel like even the writers are getting lost between events, I'm gonna talk about Marvel since it's what I read the most , but don't they have continuity check before writing new stories ?

Can someone tell me what are the Civil War's consequences still "active" ? except for the Texas super hero team i've seen in scarlet spider ...

CIVIL WAR :secret identity , should we keep it ? share it with authorities like S.H.I.E.L.D and US Government ? Iron Man built a clone of Thor to express his points, said clone kill Goliath. Cap surrender after seeing that the event fight is pointless. BAM Captain america is dead !

Iron Man becomes director of S.H.I.E.L.D, start the Initiative, Give Bucky His Captain America suit cause "we need a captain america".

SECRET INVASION : some heroes (and Jarvis) were replaced by skrull to take over Earth lead by 5 way agent Drew , Spider-woman.(so the skrull queen was actually a triple-four way agent ?) But don't worry the originals and some heroes we wanted to bring back (hi again, Mockingbird) were just waiting in a skrull spaceship.but they never tried to escape. Norman Osborn who was head of the Thunderbolts , join in final fight , get the best headshot of the party and is appointed new director of SHIELD. Rename it H.A.M.M.E.R to embrace the change , no wait that's the punchline of secret invasion.

Iron man put his memories on a HDD and erase it from his mind ?(I'll have to read that part again) Also hook up with Hill and Pepper and madame Masque in less than 10 issues !

DARK REIGN : avengers are hunted , but not by Osborn, he's too busy now. He let The HOOD (a guy with a magical red hood and 2 guns) in charge of finding the shattered heroes (wait why does it sound familiar ?).But since they're hiding at Strange's place they're safe until next event. Spidey reveal his identity to the new avengers (again ?! Thank you OMD).

Mind played by Loki , Osborn decide to invade (SIEGE) Asgard , nothing less , now a few undred feets over OK.

Captain America"Rogers" is Reborn just in time for the final fight ! Thor is here too ! OMG Iron man is gonna be in trouble !!

Well no since he's sick, let's plug Cap's shield to his reactor and hit it with Mjolnir to save him so he can use his 80's Armor (fan service on ) Or was it at the end of Secret invasion ?

Steve Rogers is asked by the President himself to take the position of "top cop" and Bucky stays as Captain America for a little bit more. Oh and Everybody is friend again, It's the HEROIC AGE ! (won't last)

For a Marvel reader all of this , and even more happened in 3-4 years. I've had the Event Fatigue for a while now, even if I still read them, i'm really considering passing on original sin, the solicitations themselves will give me the main story.

They should try to keep it simple sometimes, like with the end of superior Spider-man , they could explore how Parker is going to reconnect with the Avengers and now the Mighty Avengers as well (where Cage seems to have forget his identity for the third time)but no need to do a one shot for that (i'm looking at you Inhumanity : superior Spider-man ) Also :

Age of Ultron Consequences : Beast go back in time to get the first X-men to 2014, yeah cause he's so smart he knows it won't do any harm to the timestream.

This just show me that either they don't talk between writers and editors or they just don't care anymore.

I miss friday night poker with the Thing, Daredevil, Spidey ,Black Cat and Angel without it being a 0.5 Issue with 6 covers + 3 sketch variant.

Preach it, man. Preach it.

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#81 Edited by Husk (462 posts) - - Show Bio

I stopped buying comics that have "tie-in" on the cover, if its inportant or I liked the Crossover Event. Ill go back and pick up that Tie-in issue. but I tend to just end up having a hole in my collection.

for my part, This is in direct correlation to too many Crossovers, I have a strict budget on comics, so If I can't get the whole story by just buying the comics on my pull list, they obviously don't want me reading that story, might as well just not buy any of them at all.

im thinking there will be quite a few FE tie-in books I will skip over, just haven't gotten that far yet.

PS: I did end up picking up the Justice League Tie-ins to Throne of Atlantis...it was that good (JL is not in my regular pull list, Aquaman is) but In the long run I ended up spending less on DC rather than more because of Tie-ins (a ton LESS in Marvel because I was skipping the crossovers)

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#82 Posted by sham045 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Pros & Cons: sums it up pretty much. If you don't like them or cant afford them, check out a local library to see if they have the events you missed out on. Sure you have to wait a while, but in the meantime just keep on with the storeys that mean most to you (whether in Cross-over events or not). The idea is to be entertained, and if an event doesn't do it for the purchasing public, the publishers will see the sales results. We can hope they will learn from this and adjust their creative output accordingly.

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#83 Posted by Teerack (10703 posts) - - Show Bio

Large cross over can be amazing is done right and built up to be a big thing like how Civil War and M-Day really effected everything. But forcing things like fear itself and avengers vs x-men down our thoughts for half a year is bad because it just kind of happened and passed.

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#85 Posted by pingclang (558 posts) - - Show Bio

I definitely agree that huge crossover events can hurt the stories going on in the regular ongoings, but as for hurting the industry? No. The thing about these huge events is yes, they do cause a fatigue all their own and can be annoying and not so well done, but they still sell, big. Every time there is news for a big crossover about to come out you can see folks wanting it to stop, myself included, but the companies do these big events because fans will buy them anyway. It sells and it sells big. Watch the sales when these events come out and the books are being bought like mad. They eat the charts. They even go so far as to play it smart and hook the events into regular books so that folks have to read the event series to know why something just happened because some folks just have to know. It's a pain because you feel like, when one is going on, if you don't buy it you're missing out on something important and in reality, usually, a year later it doesn't even matter. Who really thinks about what happened in Fear Itself now? Honestly? The world was fixed the following month and short of a few character changes, nothing remains. That said, another event is around the corner and the same cycle will just repeat. Bottom line, I don't think the companies care as much about how good or how important it is so long as it sells and the money is coming in and with events, that's exactly what you get.

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#86 Edited by DCWarFan73 (167 posts) - - Show Bio

There are a lot of pro' and con's to the large cross-over events. I truly enjoyed Infinity as I got introduced to some newer members of the Avengers that I did not know and saw some that I only knew in passing. I also enjoyed Civil War (who didn't?) and it got me to like a little known character called Goliath aka Black Goliath aka a lot of other names who sadly was killed off and has remained that way ever since (is this a first?). In the DC world their first Crisis on Infinite Earths is truly awesome. They tried something and it stuck for a while but some characters are hard to kill off (are they really alive to being with?). Currently Forever Evil is great but the biggest con have been the delays. Seven issues which will end up almost taking a year to get released is pretty hard on the readers and the current books released by DC have picked up where FE ended and there's no more suspense. The pro's just out weight the con's in introducing some great and lesser characters that I have not read before but the frequency of having them have hurt the industry. Marvel have been on a 2 event per year schedule lately which to me is killing their base. It's asking a lot to shell out $4 a book plus get the tie ins. I agree having books that tie to the big events and not allowing them to grow on their own is silly to say the least. I have enjoyed Mighty Avengers and even having read Infinity and part of Inhumanity it still stands on its own. But now Original Sin is on its way with more tie ins for Mighty Avengers. When does it end?

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#87 Posted by Herokiller12344 (1046 posts) - - Show Bio

Big events are a problem because they all try to change the Universe...forever. It's really hard to get into a comic series when something's always changing.

I love big events, so it really hurts to say that they've gotten to a point where I'd prefer a whole lot of nothing happening.

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#88 Posted by Nerd Of A Hero (1162 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, to me they hurt like slipping on ice and falling on your head so hard that it takes several minutes to get off the ground and reminding yourself to never do anything stupid again. There are some stories that were awesome and you can appreciate it, the characters, and the experience you had during that time. Some times, like Countdown, AVX, and Amazons Attack are the things that have you stop and think to yourself "what the heck are these guys doing? Is this the 'new thing' that every company is cashing on? I'm not going to buy this, with it's confusing crossovers and unnecessary tie-in's just to read a story I'm not interested in. I'd rather read there solo series or some Manga than deal with this".

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#89 Posted by clayscarface (123 posts) - - Show Bio

It's all about the planning. Blackest Night was the event that pulled me back into comics because I have always loved Green Lantern and this was a big story that had a lot of build up, so it inspired me to catch up with GL and I've kept with it since then. AvX was something I saw being planned since House of M with the decimation and then Messiah Complex and all of the stuff happening in the X-Titles. Those things where you know something is going to happen and the tension is mounting for a long time, is great.

It also has to be organic. Like with X-Men, they have little things like Battle of the Atom and other events that happen in their corner of the Marvel Universe and it totally makes sense. That is such a tight-knit group that they should all be brought together. Other things are far more forced. Fear Itself? It forced an X-Men tie-in when there were no X-Men actually involved in the main event (other than like Wolverine, but he was definitely included as an Avenger). Nothing bothers me more than when a crossover makes me feel like I need to buy other tie-in titles that I don't already read. AvX taught me that. Sure there were a couple of great tie-ins that I wasn't following, but there were also ones that were absolutely abysmal and added nothing to the story or to the individual title's situation.

As for the timing, this falls under the organic piece as well for me. What Marvel is doing with Age of Ultron, Infinity, and Original Sin is just clogging things up. Like a LOT of other people have been saying, it prevents the individual titles from getting space to breathe and actually develop on their own. I understand why the companies do it, but when it gets to a certain point, I'm far more likely to say "forget it, I don't want to read all of that" than "yeah, I'll pick up another 5 titles to understand what's really going on for 6 months." Especially if it's something that doesn't directly impact the books I'm already enjoying. On the flip side, it's ludicrous when things like Forever Evil don't seem to register in solo titles. So this is something that's totally changing how the Justice League operates for however long and this group or person isn't noticing? Really?? Heck, I even get a little peeved when I realize that titles don't account for the time a character spends in another title. Like Wonder Woman, great book, but how much have we seen of the rest of the Justice League? At least Batwoman, while staying removed from the other Bat-books acknowledged they were there.

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#90 Posted by ZbvmX (269 posts) - - Show Bio

The events themselves (main series) I support (I love big stories!). But after a year of trying out (read: buying each and every) tie-ins, I have decided to drop every tie-in that is not currently among my non-event pull-list. Maybe even mini series within the events themselves.

Event fatigue? Maybe

Tie-in fatigue? Y E S

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#91 Posted by Grey56 (823 posts) - - Show Bio

Events wouldn't be that bad if they actually had some variation. 9 times out of 10 it'll be "oh something big happened so lets all fight each other until we figure out who's really behind it then fight them. The End." I would love to see some smaller slower events like a horror themed one that tries to scare the readers instead of 100 pages of punching or maybe a detective mystery event that drops clues the whole time so the reader can try and work it out for themselves. I know people will say Original Sin will be a mystery event but it's really not, it'll just be heroes falling out with each other over secrets and then finally fighting the bad guy.

Mostly this. However, @inferiorego sir - you also summarized a lot of the key elements as well. Much like any marketing tool though, if you go to the well too often it can lose its effectiveness; you called it 'event fatigue' but it's also referred to as 'market fatigue' in other fields. You probably know this.

You make astute observations throughout your discussion;

1) about how events can (and should) have meaningful/lasting impact (thus enhancing collectible value) which can generate interest in new and existing consumers. So when Barry Allen dies, it carries significant weight.

2) stories should be self contained and avoid bi-annual interruption of ongoing, stand alone titles. It allows writers to craft lasting stories that consumers want to read after each cliffhanger (see Scott Snyder on Batman).

3) events should provide consumer with a story that isn't being written solely to promote corporations' profitability; this means eliminating bi-annual or annual events. I cite Annihilation, Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinity Gauntlet as ways to provide the 'pre & post' event footprint which you correctly stated the importance of. These stories had months (almost a year for both pre & post in the context of the Infinity Gauntlet) to build up and then rebuild readers/consumer to the changes that these very large events had.

If done properly, events can be some of the more important stories the industry can tell; they can draw upon the collective marketing and creative resources that each company's titles has to move in a singular direction. If done poorly and too often, they dilute their significance and consumer interest and you wind up with another 'also-ran' event that takes 8-12 issues (and dozens more from self titled and ancillary publications) to tell something which could have been done in far less and at less cost to the consumer.

You said it best when talking about a (4) issue cross-over; you had a deliberate purpose in purchasing those books even though they weren't very important to the collective cannon. Your money speaks just as loudly today as then; give the fans good stories with less issues and save the great stories for the every 3rd-5th year event that satisfies such a market itch.

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#92 Posted by Night Thrasher (3820 posts) - - Show Bio

Answer: Good stories help the industry regardless of format; Bad stories hurt the industry regardless of format.

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#93 Edited by COBRAMORPH (1884 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, when you have someone saying "this is awesome & relievant because we say so & its a big event deal" , then kinda yeah it can. But not really. What REALLY hurts the industry are these being excuses to REBOOT & RETCON & REVAMP characters. Kill off the pre-existing guy to replace him with either a chick or a minority character. I mean, that tells the fans this guy sorta matters, but not too much. There is a reason why Superman, Bats, & WW are so popular & well known. They've ALWAYS been the same person. GL, Flash, not so much, people dont know of the 4 pieces of Meat are wearing the suit that month.

I mean, it was fine when Barry died & was replaced with Wally, but now, you had Bart taking over, then replaced by Wally again, then now Barry is back. O & it gets worse, now you have a New52.

Which is the other thing. Now you have to try & find out, "well what is in continuity, & what isnt"? This so-called controversy about Disney dropping the EU for StarWars, whatever, at least there isnt to many continuity problems. Just dont bother with them. Which is why I dislike the Trek reboots. I HATE how they connected the old continuity with their new universe. There was no need to involve Spock & Nero in their reboot to explain the differances. That is what a reboot does, starts from point-A & ignoring everything. "It doesnt offend me as a Trek fan, but as someone who wants to be entertained by halfway decent stories for an hour or two." Thanks HBK. See, no plagerism, you F-ing idiot.

That is what is wrong with these crossovers. They have to try & explain with their bull-garbage why Hal or Steve Rogers is back. Not "just because..." you know, magic exists. "Hey guys, I'm the GL again, is that cool or what?"- Turbo,aPRmovie.

They have to come up with bad ideas to undo their earlier bad ideas.

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#94 Posted by georgemarvin (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Hurt. Badly. If they aren't killng the industry outright, they are at least inflicting major wounds.

That said, for the last few years, I've been reading Walking Dead, Invincible and Avengers Arena (Now Avengers Undercover) every month, and haven't had to put up with a single cross-over. Well, except the very few times that a Marvel or DC story sounded interesting enough for me to shell out the $50-$100 it costs to buy all the titles, many of which I don't even like. And that ain't very often.

The cross-overs do increase sales of even low-selling, badly written comics for a month or two, because people will come back to their old favorites occasionally for a larger-than-life event, like AvsX, and may have to buy something they normally wouldn't just to complete the story, but it's just for an issue or two, and if the story isn't something fantastic, it confirms their suspicions that it's just a money grab, and they go back to reading the titles that have earned their readers' praise by being consistently good and interesting.

Also, cross-overs can ruin what had been a good read. For instance, Hellblazer was good, the new Constantine isn't. And they make it incredibly difficult to jump back into a comic. I had read a couple of issues of Catwoman a while back, but I saw one a couple of months ago, and had no clue about what was going on. On the other hand, in the aftermath of AvX, Uncanny X-Men has become worth reading again, and All-New X-Men, while inconsistent, has potential.

I guess it's a mixed bag. A lot of former comic readers have quit, or started reading novels or manga, or comics from other publishers, so high prices and crossovers are definitely cutting down the number of regular customers. However, like me, some of them will occasionally come back for a big event, but we're not as likely to do so, now that it's $3.99 per issue for 20 or 30 books. When it was a choice between paying $10 for ten books in a cross-over, or $10 to go to the movies, I might get the cross-over. Now, when it's maybe $100-$150 to read a cross-over, that's enough to go to the movies every week for the whole summer.

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#95 Posted by lorex (1000 posts) - - Show Bio

Going by the sales they generate tie big crossover events do boost sales for the published. Problem is that this is often at the expense of the individual titles ongoing story. I really do not like it when a story I have been enjoying gets disrupted for months in some cases for an event/crossover that increasingly drag along far too long. I know this has become an industry standard but I am not looking forward to the next 'Infinite Crisis of Forever Blackest Days' or some such title.

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#96 Posted by lorex (1000 posts) - - Show Bio

Going by the sales they generate tie big crossover events do boost sales for the published. Problem is that this is often at the expense of the individual titles ongoing story. I really do not like it when a story I have been enjoying gets disrupted for months in some cases for an event/crossover that increasingly drag along far too long. I know this has become an industry standard but I am not looking forward to the next 'Infinite Crisis of Forever Blackest Days' or some such title.

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#97 Edited by Miss_Garrick (1804 posts) - - Show Bio

Since I pretty much stopped reading Marvel because they keep doing idiotic crossovers...then yes it hurts the industry.