Destructive capabilities or attack potency? Which one is the correct way to gauge power.

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HypeBeastCSB15

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Poll Destructive capabilities or attack potency? Which one is the correct way to gauge power. (98 votes)

Destructive capabilities 33%
Attack potency 76%

I see destructive capabilities or "dc" being used in vs battles as evidence for who would win. But attack potency makes way more sense, but might have characters at a certain level of power that doesn't seem right to some. For reference, compare the tiering system from vs battles wiki to that of comic vines. Which one makes the most sense? Which one is best?

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HypeBeastCSB15

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#1  Edited By HypeBeastCSB15

For some clarification someone like spider man has town level attack potency but can't destroy a town. In my opinion, dc is focused way more on AOE instead of the actual energy or power behind an attack. What do you guys think?

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anthp2000

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#2 anthp2000  Moderator

Scale and potency are both important, but potency is more important most of the time. A more powerful laser beam can go right through a large energy blast.

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Emanresu_20

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I’m so confused on how it is 0% for destruction and 80% for attack Potency.

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macleen

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i don't know always considered AP as work rate while DC as output.

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Shadowwaker

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In fiction a city level nuke can be tanked, but a punch that doesn't have any output to that of a nuke could be stronger. Pretty sure...vs battles uses the same system of attack potency as well.

An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends upon the energy output of the attack, not the area of effect of the attack.

Apparently 99% of comics don't want everything torn to shreds when they throw a punch. Go figure...

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HypeBeastCSB15

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i was expecting people to be on the dc side of things, but it's good to see ap being accepted and used.

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HypeBeastCSB15

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bump

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socajunkie

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#8 socajunkie  Moderator

Potency seems more effective by virtue of its focused nature, an example would be Heracles’ breath: she exhales and the air pierces clean through earth sized continents then exits the planet without damaging the matter it didn’t come into contact with. That hitting someone in the face will be more effective than an AoE explosion with similar energy yield.

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deactivated-600f199354a16

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AP all day

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ppo009

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#10  Edited By ppo009

( in fiction) if you’re doing an x1, surely attack potency. Let's take a real situation, we have 2 innocents A and B and we have 2 armed guys C and D, C is with a bazooka, D is with a sniper, and each one shoots an innocent, the bazooka hit a wall and destroys, but target A is still alive but hurt,

meanwhile D shoots B by hitting a fatal shot, which kills target B but the sniper bullet did not destroy anything. This is attack potency in a nutshell and so it is more important in an x1, now assuming we are in an x1 we have character B who has a city level resistance,

character A explodes a nuclear bomb that takes an entire city together, but the target can still tank because all the energy in the nuclear bomb is dispersed so the destruction will be different in each point of the explosion area, the closer to the point where the bomb exploded the greater the destruction,

the closer to the end of the area of ​​the explosion less destruction, that is, the force is distributed differently over a large area, but if a punch has the same attack power and accumulated energy and is aiming at a single specific target, it is certain of death , even if it doesn't destroy a city,

because all the energy is concentrated in one point.

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ppo009

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#11  Edited By ppo009

@shadowwaker: because of that I find it flawed to use scientific calculations in comics, or in anime etc. It's all fiction so when the authors do their work they don't think about those things when doing it (most of them at least) they just do the scene as they see fit and ignore the laws of physics (not that I'm complaining is just a statement).

Because of that it’s also very complicated to do battle between characters even more from different anime,

because as I said before the scientific calculation to know the energy used and these things is very inaccurate and does not work because the authors do not think about it and so the feats of the characters are difficult to calculate the ideal would be to calculate by official quotes and deeds concrete anime.

I see people saying that all might is stronger than goku just because all might can create a tornado and I disagree with that, so I never take these battles seriously

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iknowwhoyouare

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Attack potency. Some attacks just don't have the range i.e. a single energy beam or physical punch can never destroy a universe like an AOE explosion.

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GreyTheJiren

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AP should mainly be used for scaling other characters, because a lot of times people will wank a feat far beyond of what was shown and say "BuT Ap Is DiFfErEnT FrOm Dc".

You can't completely throw away the dc.

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KingMaker

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So if someone were to punch Saitama and his face scrunches up now they are multi-universe level? So all of OPM is multi-universe level+? How tf is this a thing?

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J_Normal

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#16 J_Normal  Online

AP os a better method. Not all attacks explode. An example is a laser that just chits through anything.

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chris2kzombieki

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I was under the assumption Destructive Capacity is your destructive output.. For example, some characters have the DC to destroy a planet. With that said, someone who has DC would mean they have similar AP (I believe). Feats for such would include an on panel feat of destroying a city, mountain, etc.

AP is normally used to scale characters, deriving from statements, WoG, etc. Don't quote me on that though. Characters who damage, lets say continental characters, are likely gonna have superior AP.

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mr-yes

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I was under the assumption Destructive Capacity is your destructive output.. For example, some characters have the DC to destroy a planet.

It is

With that said, someone who has DC would mean they have similar AP (I believe). Feats for such would include an on panel feat of destroying a city, mountain, etc.

Yes, except their AP can be even higher than their DC, in many cases

AP is normally used to scale characters, deriving from statements, WoG, etc. Don't quote me on that though.

Eh… nah. For example, damaging a city level character but not having the DC to destroy a city is still a city level character. So it can also come from feats. Most of the time it’s DC that is derived from statements if I’m not wrong

Characters who damage, lets say continental characters, are likely gonna have superior AP.

Equal* unless they slam that character or smth, in which case it’s likely a bit higher. Damaging a continental character gives you continental AP

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mr-yes

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@j_normal said:

AP os a better method. Not all attacks explode. An example is a laser that just chits through anything.

Exactly, good analogy as well

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ReaperTheGrim

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Ap is a fanmade measurement desperately clung to by debaters when their characters lack feats.

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deactivated-64232b99e9c14

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DC is needed to get AP in the first place.

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J_Normal

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#22 J_Normal  Online

@reaperthegrim:

Um not really. An attack that causes little environmental damage can still be more powerful than one that does.

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ReaperTheGrim

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@j_normal said:

@reaperthegrim:

Um not really. An attack that causes little environmental damage can still be more powerful than one that does.

depends on the context. Characters need DC feats to justify their AP. Ap feats alone are just fan interpretation.

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nassergrant19

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Lol wat?

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heiqn

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#25  Edited By heiqn
@reaperthegrim said:

Ap is a fanmade measurement desperately clung to by debaters when their characters lack feats.

AP is used because of inconsistency, not wank. There is no scientifc explanation for, for example a character who tanked a town level explosion getting hurt by Spider-Man's punches (happens all the time) Either you have to accept Attack Potency or %99 of the fiction is street level, your choice

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J_Normal

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#26 J_Normal  Online

@reaperthegrim:

You don’t really need DC to scale ap. If you understand the materials textile strength, melting point, or density you can calc the energy needed to destroy, melt, or vaporize it.

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ReaperTheGrim

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@j_normal said:

@reaperthegrim:

You don’t really need DC to scale ap. If you understand the materials textile strength, melting point, or density you can calc the energy needed to destroy, melt, or vaporize it.

Destroying, melting, or vaporizing something is DC. And 90% of the time fans just assume the material anyway.

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ReaperTheGrim

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@heiqn said:
@reaperthegrim said:

Ap is a fanmade measurement desperately clung to by debaters when their characters lack feats.

AP is used because of inconsistency, not wank. There is no scientifc explanation for, for example a character who tanked a town level explosion getting hurt by Spider-Man's punches (happens all the time) Either you have to accept Attack Potency or %99 of the fiction is street level, your choice

Town level explosions don't dictate town level durability unless you can prove the character took all of the explosions force. What kind of idiot would believe spiderman has town level punches.

"Either you have to accept Attack Potency or %99 of the fiction is street level, your choice"

Brain dead argument. Ap scales from DC, without feats Ap is just some guy on the internet making stuff up.

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LameLiarLeo

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This has to be some of the most obvious polls Ive faced

To everyone who thinks It's DC, Please...

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thenamelessone

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Attack Potency is the obvious answer , DC is just the AOE of AP.

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heiqn

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#31  Edited By heiqn
@reaperthegrim said:

Town level explosions don't dictate town level durability unless you can prove the character took all of the explosions force. What kind of idiot would believe spiderman has town level punches.

"Either you have to accept Attack Potency or %99 of the fiction is street level, your choice"

Brain dead argument. Ap scales from DC, without feats Ap is just some guy on the internet making stuff up.

Why details instead of trying to understand the thing I'm trying to say. it doesn't matter if he took all, or half. it doesn't matter if he's Spider-Man or Batman. Point is Durability and Striking aren't consistent.

Also who said DC isn't important? and who said DC is below AP? Your entire argument is telling how AP is a product of wankers. This is even more braindead argument than mine.

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NinjaRizer

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Absolutely AP. DC is almost completely obsolete.

If DC was more important that AP, anyone who thinks this would have to accept that in a fictional verse, every single attack that carries a certain power SHOULD ALWAYS have the same DC.

Key word is should.

No one believes this (at least any rational human) therefore AP is more important as the VAST majority of verses rely on it to even make sense.

Another ridiculous point is that people think that a feat must have the applicable DC to be considered a feat.

AKA, it must destroy what it can destroy to be considered a feat.

AKA, we can’t be told how strong it is, we must be shown.

Which is one of the most ridiculous logical conclusions applied to fiction I’ve ever seen, I mean truly hopeless logic indeed. You need only read a novel (which has no damn pictures) to scoff at this logic.

Any author of a fictional series would absolutely laugh at their OWN clarifications of power being dismissed.

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NinjaRizer

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The not brain dead answer, is attack potency, clearly.

You expect planet busters, even through physical stats, to always destroy celestial bodies in a fictional setting, when their hits land?

Not gonna happen sadly. Dismissing attack potency due to lack of environmental destruction, even though previous feats, or consistent clear cut statements indicate a certain stat, or ability, to be at a certain level, instead of the one disappointing visuals shows, well, it's mostly a coping mechanic. You either accept attack potency, or you cannot actuallydo fictional debates.

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Edgelord91

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DC sets the bar and is easier for cacls but AP does tie into that

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J_Normal

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#37 J_Normal  Online
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Lordragoon

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AP is better overall. Since not every character will bust a planet even though if said character have planet level feats or scale to planet level. Although, DC is needed as a bed rock for a verse overall power. If a verse highest DC on panel or in video is planet level than claiming their AP is galaxy for example will be wank. There no way to justify such a massive jump in power with statements alone since planet level vs galaxy is litteraly night and day difference.

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MonvieZ3

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AP is better than higher DC when scaling the potency of a character,

Best example here is when you need a Solar system lvl AP to damage cell,

No Caption Provided

While Acnologia did a Continental DC with each explosion packing a Large island AP.

No Caption Provided

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GreyTheJiren

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You get a DC feat from a character, then scale it to AP of other characters. You almost never get AP without DC.

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Mortein

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You get a DC feat from a character, then scale it to AP of other characters. You almost never get AP without DC.

basically this.

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Jieldre

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huh??? they are literally the same thing

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TaurusAldebaran

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Destructive Capabilities is the basis for everything.

Have seen people claiming some character have Country AP because he have defeatedor up scale to another character.

But if said character had not being stablished to have Country level of endurance, the AP doesn't up scale.

And the only way for that is if he survives an attack that wipe away a Country.

If there is no DC there is no feat.

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TaurusAldebaran

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@ninjarizer: By logic any attack that carries the same amount of power MUST have always the same DC.

It doesn't happens quite often in fiction because of inconsistences and script convenience.

But it is aways a let down when a kamehameha of a Super Saiyan Blue only blows out a mountain.

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LordTwigo

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You get a DC feat from a character, then scale it to AP of other characters. You almost never get AP without DC.

The only take I agree with here

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MangaComics69

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The not brain dead answer, is attack potency, clearly.

You expect planet busters, even through physical stats, to always destroy celestial bodies in a fictional setting, when their hits land?

Not gonna happen sadly. Dismissing attack potency due to lack of environmental destruction, even though previous feats, or consistent clear cut statements indicate a certain stat, or ability, to be at a certain level, instead of the one disappointing visuals shows, well, it's mostly a coping mechanic. You either accept attack potency, or you cannot actuallydo fictional debates.

Absolutely AP. DC is almost completely obsolete.

If DC was more important that AP, anyone who thinks this would have to accept that in a fictional verse, every single attack that carries a certain power SHOULD ALWAYS have the same DC.

Key word is should.

No one believes this (at least any rational human) therefore AP is more important as the VAST majority of verses rely on it to even make sense.

Another ridiculous point is that people think that a feat must have the applicable DC to be considered a feat.

AKA, it must destroy what it can destroy to be considered a feat.

AKA, we can’t be told how strong it is, we must be shown.

Which is one of the most ridiculous logical conclusions applied to fiction I’ve ever seen, I mean truly hopeless logic indeed. You need only read a novel (which has no damn pictures) to scoff at this logic.

Any author of a fictional series would absolutely laugh at their OWN clarifications of power being dismissed.

This I 100% agree that AP is important but DC should be used to factually scale a Series tho.

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BigBaby

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AP>DC