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#51 Edited by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen:

That's not how to debate, provide feats or don't.

Provide feats? No. The burden of proof is on you, you are the one making a claim, it is up to you to prove it. "why would they use an inferior metal to create Zod's ship?" Who knows? Is it more durable than the World Engine? Who knows? But it's not the World Engine nor was it the ship that flew through multiple buildings like the OP claimed.

No your reasoning is faulty. So far Kryptonian metal/metals have all proven to be superior to earth's. They body armor couldn't be more than an inch thick yet completely shrugs off 30mm and missiles. Their smaller ships(that are housed inside the black zero) bulldoze A-10 warthogs like tissue paper yet you believe the Black Zero is weak.

That's all cute, but it doesn't make the OP any more wrong than it already is. I am merely stating the facts.

That's why I gave you another example of their ancient ships still being too durable. So unless you can prove Kryptonian metal out of all the feats they accumulated is inferior based on an inferior feat, then you're just reaching.

You're the one reaching here. Being ancient doesn't mean less or more durable. All I am saying is the OP is based on falsehoods, which it is.

And THAT was a black hole? The Phantom Zone is a black hole now? lolwow!

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#52 Posted by JakeFuryV2 (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

More importantly, it was rude. Use a door next time.

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#53 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01:

Provide feats? No. The burden of proof is on you, you are the one making a claim, it is up to you to prove it. "why would they use an inferior metal to create Zod's ship?" Who knows? Is it more durable than the World Engine? Who knows? But it's not the World Engine nor was it the ship that flew through multiple buildings like the OP claimed.

I just gave several feats, all Kryptonian metal , you've done nothing to debunk them so far rather than claim they are not the same object. No one is claiming the Black zero is the scout ship or the WE, the metal is. Why would they make the Black Zero inferior when they clearly have strong metals, not to mention they were trying to secure the most wanted man on their planet?

That's all cute, but it doesn't make the OP any more wrong than it already is. I am merely stating the facts.

It can't be facts without proof. OP mentioned materials(metal) he never said anything about the WE being The black Zero that's just your assumption.

You're the one reaching here. Being ancient doesn't mean less or more durable. All I am saying is the OP is based on falsehoods, which it is.

Something called half life. The metal lasted for thousands of years and was still functional. Check on how long Earth metals last.

And THAT was a black hole? The Phantom Zone is a black hole now? lolwow!

Zod's own words, he is their general and I'd take his words over yours. Besides aren't you all about statements?

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#54 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen:

I just gave several feats, all Kryptonian metal , you've done nothing to debunk them so far rather than claim they are not the same object. No one is claiming the Black zero is the scout ship or the WE, the metal is.

Prove it. Whose to say Kryptonian metals don't vary in terms of strength, durability and resistance to heat/various forms of energy like ours do? Lumping feats from different ships and objects together and trying to unify their durability doesn't exactly work.

Clark merely tapping the ship created a man sized hole and the material broke away almost in similar fashion to blowing a hole through a brick wall, yet a full powered punch from him only poked a hole through the escape pod Lois was trapped in. It didn't shatter like Zod's ship did. Also Zod/Faora/Nam-Ek's armour were all able to withstand multiple blows from Clark, yet couldn't protect them from his heat vision.

This is enough to suggest the materials vary and you can't interchange their feats like Lego blocks.

Why would they make the Black Zero inferior when they clearly have strong metals, not to mention they were trying to secure the most wanted man on their planet?

Why not?

It can't be facts without proof. OP mentioned materials(metal) he never said anything about the WE being The black Zero that's just your assumption.

Okay, gotcha.

Something called half life. The metal lasted for thousands of years and was still functional. Check on how long Earth metals last.

Right, but what's the average life expectancy for Kryptonian metal again?

Zod's own words, he is their general and I'd take his words over yours.

Huh?.... I don't remember Zod ever calling the Phantom Zone a black hole.

Besides aren't you all about statements?

Who?

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#55 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01:

Prove it. Whose to say Kryptonian metals don't vary in terms of strength, durability and resistance to heat/various forms of energy like ours do? Lumping feats from different ships and objects together and trying to unify their durability doesn't exactly work.

This is common sense, the ship Zod was in was a prison ship. Whats stopping Zod's followers from rescuing him. Even in real life, most wanted criminals(Capital crimes like Coup d'état) would be heavily secured/secret locations( Black-hole) away from easy access, under heavy security the ship itself and the cryo-tech they were placed under.

Clark merely tapping the ship created a man sized hole and the material broke away almost in similar fashion to blowing a hole through a brick wall, yet a full powered punch from him only poked a hole through the escape pod Lois was trapped in. It didn't shatter like Zod's ship did. Also Zod/Faora/Nam-Ek's armour were all able to withstand multiple blows from Clark, yet couldn't protect them from his heat vision.

This same logic can be applied in the explanation of why some punches send their opponents hundreds of meters away while others only a few feat away. If you can explain that then you can get your answer rather than relying on anti-feats to downplay Superman.

This is enough to suggest the materials vary and you can't interchange their feats like Lego blocks.

Materials may vary but we have standard metals(titanium/ aluminum for aviation, steel for construction), not to mention that same ship survived interstellar transportation just like the WE, if it wasn't capable then Zod and crew would have used another ship from the colonies they visited. It didn't even have a phantom drive but they fitted it with one instead of finding another ship with a drive. That, and the fact that they brought the ship down to earth without the care of earth weapons. Zod would be a lousy General if he just used a ship that was weak.

Why not?

just explained above

Okay, gotcha.

Right, but what's the average life expectancy for Kryptonian metal again?

Based on the ship's condition, several thousand years since it was still in good condition after a few thousand years

Huh?.... I don't remember Zod ever calling the Phantom Zone a black hole.

Loading Video...

Who?

Rudebomberboy01

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#56 Edited by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen:

This is common sense, the ship Zod was in was a prison ship. Whats stopping Zod's followers from rescuing him. Even in real life, most wanted criminals(Capital crimes like Coup d'état) would be heavily secured/secret locations( Black-hole) away from easy access, under heavy security the ship itself and the cryo-tech they were placed under.

.. I don't see any proof here. Just headcanon.

This same logic can be applied in the explanation of why some punches send their opponents hundreds of meters away while others only a few feat away. If you can explain that then you can get your answer rather than relying on anti-feats to downplay Superman.

Anti-feat? Huh? No one is downplaying Superman here. Unless merely pointing out the various levels of durability within Kryptonian metal is wrong now?

Materials may vary but we have standard metals(titanium/ aluminum for aviation, steel for construction)

Now we're talking. Those metals also vary in terms of durability strength and heat resistance. Who's to say the same doesn't apply for Kryptonian metal? Seeing how they all vary in strength and durability?

not to mention that same ship survived interstellar transportation just like the WE, if it wasn't capable then Zod and crew would have used another ship from the colonies they visited.

Through teleportation:

Loading Video...

It indeed was NOT capable, they had to modify it to grant that ability.

It didn't even have a phantom drive but they fitted it with one instead of finding another ship with a drive. That, and the fact that they brought the ship down to earth without the care of earth weapons. Zod would be a lousy General if he just used a ship that was weak.

More headcanon. Heck the World Engine didn't even come with the ship, the found it on a deserted colonial outpost.

just explained above

Nope, just pure headcanon and speculations with no proof on how of why their feats should be interchangeable. Only what YOU believe should be right, which doesn't really work here and it isn't irrefutable proof or evidence. Just your own narrative.

Based on the ship's condition, several thousand years since it was still in good condition after a few thousand years

Right, no prove it wouldn't have lasted another several thousand years. Or prove it was any less durable than what it was brand new. The Phantom Zone is a black hole now? Please don't create another DCEU meme, we have enough of those already.

This is your logic: Superman broke Kryptonian metal with a tap, this is impressive because Kryptonian metal (not the one he broke, but the World Engine/ship buried in ice) was capable of flying through multiple buildings and surviving orbital re-entry/crash without any problems.

Well then, based on that logic, I can fold a coke can with my bare hands(impressive, I know), I should also be able to fold an M1 Abrams since they're both comprised of metals found on earth? No? Struggling to fold the can shouldn't be an "anti-feat" btw.

Rudebomberboy01

Quote me. I dare you.

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#57 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01: .. I don't see any proof here. Just headcanon.

You're the one using headcanon claiming the black zero is weak based on nothing

Anti-feat? Huh? No one is downplaying Superman here. Unless merely pointing out the various levels of durability within Kryptonian metal is wrong now?

Nope it's an anti-feat, otherwise you can as well as say Kryptonian body armor is more durable than the WE since it tanked bullrushes, punches and HV from a non-weakened Superman yet the WE didn't. Your argument failed.

Now we're talking. Those metals also vary in terms of durability strength and heat resistance. Who's to say the same doesn't apply for Kryptonian metal? Seeing how they all vary in strength and durability?

They all don't vary, they just have different feats. The WE, Black zero and scout ship have never been tested against military weapons like their body armor has but anyone who knows even the basics of weaponry would tell you body armor<<<<<<< interstellar ships except you.

Through teleportation:

It indeed was NOT capable, they had to modify it to grant that ability.

nice of you to leave out a lot of context. They couldn't because they didn't have the phantom drive which they retrofitted one after they scavenged from the projector otherwise he even states they would have drifted off in space until they starved. It's structure wasn't touched.

More headcanon. Heck the World Engine didn't even come with the ship, the found it on a deserted colonial outpost.

Read what I wrote

Nope, just pure headcanon and speculations with no proof on how of why their feats should be interchangeable. Only what YOU believe should be right, which doesn't really work here and it isn't irrefutable proof or evidence. Just your own narrative.

Obviously it is to you since you have no arguments.

Right, no prove it wouldn't have lasted another several thousand years. Or prove it was any less durable than what it was brand new. The Phantom Zone is a black hole now? Please don't create another DCEU meme, we have enough of those already.

Prove what? the ship survived thousands of years? It's already stated in the movie. Since you asked, show me how a brand new Kryptonian scout-ship looks like and I shall compare with the one I'm using. No it's just you in denial, it was stated on-screen, unless you also think that's headcanon, like you always do when you lack arguments.

This is your logic: Superman broke Kryptonian metal with a tap, this is impressive because Kryptonian metal (not the one he broke, but the World Engine/ship buried in ice) was capable of flying through multiple buildings and surviving orbital re-entry/crash without any problems.

Well then, based on that logic, I can fold a coke can with my bare hands(impressive, I know), I should also be able to fold an M1 Abrams since they're both comprised of metals found on earth? No? Struggling to fold the can shouldn't be an "anti-feat" btw.

LOL, This is my logic: Kryptonian metal so far from body armor to ships have tanked everything thrown at them except Superman, that is 30mm, missiles, explosions, reentry, Blackholes, Kryptonian gravity(that dropped skyrcrappers), crashing through sky-crappers, thousands of years, space travel, ramming Earth fighters...

Your logic on the hand is. Black zero is weak, no proof. Kryptonian escape pods is more durable than Black zero because it took several Superman's punches. This would also mean their body armor is the most durable of all their metals since it took more punishment. They are using different metals so some of them should be weak(referencing soda cans and military weapons), no proof.

For someone who keeps asking for proof and then when given proof you call headcanon you're the one using it all the time. Come back to me when you have feats that contradict mine rather than "it's headcanon" then we can debate.

Quote me. I dare you.

Pay attention next time, since we started I've been quoting you

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#58 Edited by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen:

You're the one using headcanon claiming the black zero is weak based on nothing

I never claimed Zod's ship was weak. Don't shove words in my mouth. I said you would have to prove that ALL Kryptonian metal-feats are interchangeable when there's nothing to suggest it, other than the fact that "it's Kryptonian." I'm sorry that doesn't work.

Nope it's an anti-feat

This is not a legit rebuttal, it's not even an argument. It's denying facts. "anti-feat" LMAO!

you can as well as say Kryptonian body armor is more durable than the WE since it tanked bullrushes, punches and HV from a non-weakened Superman

If you really want to go there, what's really wrong with that notion? Besides, the body armour doesn't exactly protect its users from all forms of damage, seeing how Lois was able to one-shot multiple Kryptonians wearing the armour with a small Kryptonian pistol, and the fact that both Zod and Clark have bypassed its durability through sheer force.

yet the WE didn't.

That's an "anti-feat"

Your argument failed.

You never had one to begin with. Get off your high horse.

They all don't vary, they just have different feats.

Huh? And what do you call that?

The WE, Black zero and scout ship have never been tested against military weapons like their body armor has but anyone who knows even the basics of weaponry would tell you body armor<<<<<<< interstellar ships except you.

Oh you're some sort of expert on Kryptonian armour and metals now? Oh ninja please. Creating headcanon =/= facts. UFeelMeh?

Again, all BS head canon nonsense.

nice of you to leave out a lot of context. They couldn't because they didn't have the phantom drive which they retrofitted one after they scavenged from the projector otherwise he even states they would have drifted off in space until they starved. It's structure wasn't touched.

Correcting you is leaving out context now? You said the ship was capable of interstellar travel, I said through teleportation which is what the phantom drive modification grants. And now I'm the one leaving out context?

Obviously it is to you since you have no arguments.

That's rich coming from the person creating his own narratives and trying to pass it off as facts.

Prove what? the ship survived thousands of years? It's already stated in the movie. Since you asked, show me how a brand new Kryptonian scout-ship looks like and I shall compare with the one I'm using. No it's just you in denial, it was stated on-screen, unless you also think that's headcanon, like you always do when you lack arguments.

I'm not in denial, I am calling out your pseudo knowledge on what you're trying to argue for. You have yet to prove how weaker the "ancient Kryptonian ship" is compared to what it was when brand new. I'm merely pointing out the fact that just because it's ancient doesn't mean it will be more or less durable than what it was when brand new.

LOL, This is my logic: Kryptonian metal so far from body armor to ships have tanked everything thrown at them except Superman, that is 30mm, missiles, explosions, reentry, Blackholes, Kryptonian gravity(that dropped skyrcrappers), crashing through sky-crappers, thousands of years, space travel, ramming Earth fighters...

Blackholes... H A ! What were the durability feats for Zod's ship again?

Your logic on the hand is. Black zero is weak, no proof.

Quote me. All I said was Zod's ship =/= World Engine =/= Ancient Kryptonian ship buried in ice which is irrefutable fact, therefore you can't lump their feats together and claim they are one and the same when they all have varying feats.

Kryptonian escape pods is more durable than Black zero because it took several Superman's punches.

Never said that, plus the pod didn't take several punches. Superman poked a hole in it with one punch and proceeded to rip the door out. I said they seemed to be made out of different types of materials because the pod didn't shatter into different brick-like pieces like Zod's ship did when Clark punched it. Leading me to believe their materials aren't as stagnant as you're trying to claim and there are some variations to it.

This would also mean their body armor is the most durable of all their metals since it took more punishment. They are using different metals so some of them should be weak(referencing soda cans and military weapons), no proof.

It seems my point flew over your head, which isn't surprising at this point. I used your logic against you with lumping materials with "different feats" together simply because they are military vehicles comprised of metal found on the same planet(Krypton).

Using that stupid ass logic, I could claim a Messerschmitt Bf 109 is as durable as a Leopard 2A7 which is more or less durable than an A10 Warthog... because "HERP DERP They are all durable military vehicles made out of Earth metals HERP DERP!"

For someone who keeps asking for proof and then when given proof you call headcanon you're the one using it all the time. Come back to me when you have feats that contradict mine rather than "it's headcanon" then we can debate.

Proof where?

There was never a debate in the first place. Just you creating your own narratives, trying to lump feats together and trying to argue the validity of such faulty reasoning and logic.

Pay attention next time, since we started I've been quoting you

/Facepalm.

Okay let's try this again. You said:

Zod's own words, he is their general and I'd take his words over yours. Besides aren't you all about statements?

Which was a blatant attempt at baiting/trolling since the whole Thor star force controversy with DCEU fans. To which I asked who you were referring to. And you replied:

Rudebomberboy01

To which I asked you to quote me on that. I dared you to quote one time in my entire duration on Comic Vine where I've relied on quotes and statements as feats.

Maybe you should pay more attention? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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#59 Posted by Batman242 (11531 posts) - - Show Bio

The ship Zod was operating in crash landed on Earth from orbital entry 20,000 years ago.....

What is the argument being made here?

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#60 Edited by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242:

The ship Zod was operating in crash landed on Earth from orbital entry 20,000 years ago.....

Yes, but it's not the one the OP was on about. The ship Clark was able to punch a man sized hole through with the "mere extension of his arm" was the prison ship Zod escaped with in the beginning of MoS. How durable is it? Unknown.

What is the argument being made here?

That's literally it, I said the OP was wrong for lumping feats together. That's it, and macleen up there is acting like I killed his child or something.

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#61 Posted by Batman242 (11531 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01: To me, it seems all Kryptonian metal are the same in durability. At least two of their ships (The World Engine and Scout Ship 0344) straight up tanked orbital entry crashes. The fact that the Scout Ship was not intended to take such an impact, but still no-sold it and was still in great working condition 20,000 years later leads me to think all of their ships' metal is this durable.

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#62 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01:

I never claimed Zod's ship was weak. Don't shove words in my mouth. I said you would have to prove that ALL Kryptonian metal-feats are interchangeable when there's nothing to suggest it, other than the fact that "it's Kryptonian." I'm sorry that doesn't work.

??? No. The ship never crash landed from orbital re-entry or anything like that. It just survived the heat from... Something space shuttles are very much capable of.

Breaking material capable of surviving orbital re-entry is really not impressive.

Yeah because they would use an inferior metal to create Zod's ship?

Maybe, maybe not? Who knows? I'm just calling out the OP *shrugs*

Prove it. Whose to say Kryptonian metals don't vary in terms of strength, durability and resistance to heat/various forms of energy like ours do? Lumping feats from different ships and objects together and trying to unify their durability doesn't exactly work.

You already had the mindset of all kryptonian metals not be impressive(from the WE to Black zero). I even asked you to provide feats when you suggested Zod's ship "maybe" inferior.

The difference between you and I is that, you speculate without proof, you say Kryptonian metals may vary in-terms of strength yet there is nothing in movie that supports your speculation. I on the other hand state that Kryptonian metals are more durable because (whether you think they are using different metals or not) they have plenty of feats tanking virtually everything they come across and even added some common sense with the body armor analogy.

This is not a legit rebuttal, it's not even an argument. It's denying facts. "anti-feat" LMAO!

If you really want to go there, what's really wrong with that notion? Besides, the body armour doesn't exactly protect its users from all forms of damage, seeing how Lois was able to one-shot multiple Kryptonians wearing the armour with a small Kryptonian pistol, and the fact that both Zod and Clark have bypassed its durability through sheer force.

She did that using earth weapons, no? In case you haven't noticed my argument is Kryptonian tech> earth tech, so showing me Kryptonian tech defeating Kryptonian tech is useless. The fact that Lois using KRYPTONIAN TECH to accomplish something that more powerful earth weapon relative to their rifles(30mm, missiles)) failed makes it even more impressive. Zod and Clark have Bypassed both Earth and Krypton weapons(except for the nuke) so it's moot.

That's an "anti-feat"

You never had one to begin with. Get off your high horse.

Huh? And what do you call that?

Lol by this logic I guess Zod isn't bullet proof because only Faora, Clark and Nam-Ek have the feats. Like I said having different feats doesn't make the Black Zero less durable than the other metals.

Oh you're some sort of expert on Kryptonian armour and metals now? Oh ninja please. Creating headcanon =/= facts. UFeelMeh?

No it's common sense. There are things even in fiction that just common sense fixes it, especially when the whole concept(fiction) comes from human logic/creativity. I'm not an expert of Kryptonian metals since they don't even exist outside fiction but if you want to use this line of argument, I can also flip it and ask you if you're an expert of kryptonian metal for you to come to all your arguments?

Again, all BS head canon nonsense.

The go-to answer for all your arguments.

Correcting you is leaving out context now? You said the ship was capable of interstellar travel, I said through teleportation which is what the phantom drive modification grants. And now I'm the one leaving out context?

You do understand the definition of interstellar? Also the wormhole they used is a space phenomenon which basically still translate to space travel.

That's rich coming from the person creating his own narratives and trying to pass it off as facts.

Which all happen to take place on-screen.

I'm not in denial, I am calling out your pseudo knowledge on what you're trying to argue for. You have yet to prove how weaker the "ancient Kryptonian ship" is compared to what it was when brand new. I'm merely pointing out the fact that just because it's ancient doesn't mean it will be more or less durable than what it was when brand new.

The ship surviving thousands of years is pseudo knowledge? I told you to show me a brand new scout ship if you want me to prove it. You're the one suggesting a brand new scout-ship is better, the burden of proof is on you bro. So you just contradicted your argument, agreed the old and new have the same durability.

Blackholes... H A ! What were the durability feats for Zod's ship again?

Lol, tanking a black-hole, can you disapprove me?

Quote me. All I said was Zod's ship =/= World Engine =/= Ancient Kryptonian ship buried in ice which is irrefutable fact, therefore you can't lump their feats together and claim they are one and the same when they all have varying feats.

Which no one is disagreeing, we are talking about the stuff that made them, otherwise your logic also suggests that Cap's original shield=/= current shield=/= Ultron, Thor's SB=/= Mjolnir because they are designed differently(with different shapes) which is also irrefutable fact. Also people tend to use pure Vibranium feats for Vision even though he is not made of pure Vibranium.

You're judging them based on their shapes( which has nothing to do with durability) rather than using their material.

Never said that, plus the pod didn't take several punches. Superman poked a hole in it with one punch and proceeded to rip the door out. I said they seemed to be made out of different types of materials because the pod didn't shatter into different brick-like pieces like Zod's ship did when Clark punched it. Leading me to believe their materials aren't as stagnant as you're trying to claim and there are some variations to it.

can you prove that they are made from different materials? One was done in vacuum while the other under an atmosphere.

It seems my point flew over your head, which isn't surprising at this point. I used your logic against you with lumping materials with "different feats" together simply because they are comprised of metal found on Krypton.

Which would have worked if the materials had weaker and stronger feats but so far neither of them have and you also haven't proved they are different rather than using shapes which is unreliable.

Proof where?

There was never a debate in the first place. Just you creating your own narratives, trying to lump feats together and trying to argue the validity of such faulty reasoning and logic.

My own narratives, huh? Okay tell me which one of my so called narratives never happened in the movie

  1. The Black zero, tanked a blackhole
  2. All Kryptonian metals from body armor, pods, drop-ships, scout ships, WE, Black zero have feats and the feats trump Earth metals?
  3. Black Zero was used to harbor the most wanted fugitive on the planet inside a secured location that is practically off planet and inside a bent space which took the explosion of a planet to break through.

/Facepalm.

don't stop there

Okay let's try this again. You said:

Which was a blatant attempt at baiting/trolling since the whole Thor star force controversy with DCEU fans. To which I asked who you were referring to. And you replied:

What controversy, Unless you're referring to the Full force of a star statement, which I'd ask you if you believe is true which I'm guessing you'd say yes but if I bring up any statement from DCEU you'd disagree?

To which I asked you to quote me on that. I dared you to quote one time in my entire duration on Comic Vine where I've relied on quotes and statements as feats.

Lol most of your posts are about DCEU fanboys and salt while doing nothing to deny the statements. I got a few of them though

Obviously this would involve me going through all your posts which you know I won't but I have a few scans where you supported the Star-feat and you were insulting/laughing at everyone who denied the feat

Full context https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-thor-star-forge-feat-legit-iw-1950255/?page=2

But no need to dig deep into your post when we can just settle this in a much simpler way.

Do you think(based on the statement)Thor took the full force of a star?

Maybe you should pay more attention? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Avatar image for rudebomberboy01
#63 Edited by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen:

You already had the mindset of all kryptonian metals not be impressive(from the WE to Black zero).

Again, don't shove words in my mouth. I was specifically talking about the OP and how Zod's ship surviving re-entry heat is not impressive, which it isn't. Never said Kryptonian metals weren't impressive.

I even asked you to provide feats when you suggested Zod's ship "maybe" inferior.

The burden of proof is not on me, it is up to you to prove why Zod's ship is equal to or superior other than the fact that it's "Kryptonian." I'mmerely pointing out the fact that they are different.

The difference between you and I is that, you speculate without proof, you say Kryptonian metals may vary in-terms of strength yet there is nothing in movie that supports your speculation.

???? Huh, When I provided videos and proof of how the different materials react under different forms of stress (Clark's fists), you brushed it off to the side and called it anti-feat.

I on the other hand state that Kryptonian metals are more durable because (whether you think they are using different metals or not) they have plenty of feats tanking virtually everything they come across and even added some common sense with the body armor analogy.

No one said they weren't durable.

She did that using earth weapons, no? In case you haven't noticed my argument is Kryptonian tech> earth tech, so showing me Kryptonian tech defeating Kryptonian tech is useless. The fact that Lois using KRYPTONIAN TECH to accomplish something that more powerful earth weapon relative to their rifles(30mm, missiles)) failed makes it even more impressive. Zod and Clark have Bypassed both Earth and Krypton weapons(except for the nuke) so it's moot.

Seems my point flew over your head once again. And so it's not an anti-feat then LOL? We're talking about the suits durability feats, yes the suit is durable, but it doesn't protect its users from all forms of damage, unless you believe that piston could also one-shot an adapted Zod wearing the suit.

Lol by this logic I guess Zod isn't bullet proof because only Faora, Clark and Nam-Ek have the feats. Like I said having different feats doesn't make the Black Zero less durable than the other metals.

Zod has durability feats that would make him laugh at the concepts of bullets. Good thing, your stupid ass logic is a two way street and Faora should be capable of fighting Doomsday and the JL, simply because Clark also did. You need to re-read my posts and nail my point through your head.

No one is saying Zod's ship is less durable than the other ships. I am saying they are not the same and lumping feats together doesn't work.

No it's common sense. There are things even in fiction that just common sense fixes it, especially when the whole concept(fiction) comes from human logic/creativity. I'm not an expert of Kryptonian metals since they don't even exist outside fiction but if you want to use this line of argument, I can also flip it and ask you if you're an expert of kryptonian metal for you to come to all your arguments?

I never claimed to be a Kryptonian metal expert because I have yet to make any claims like you are. I am asking you to prove the validity of your claims. Creating headcanon is not proof.

The go-to answer for all your arguments.

Doesn't make me any less right.

You do understand the definition of interstellar? Also the wormhole they used is a space phenomenon which basically still translate to space travel.

Interstallar..... I repeat...... through teleportation. I don't know where you're going with this.

The ship surviving thousands of years is pseudo knowledge? I told you to show me a brand new scout ship if you want me to prove it. You're the one suggesting a brand new scout-ship is better, the burden of proof is on you bro. So you just contradicted your argument, agreed the old and new have the same durability.

Facepalm.jpeg I think you're losing track of this long ass pointless conversation. Do you need a refresh?

Lol, tanking a black-hole, can you disapprove me?

I'm not even going to attempt to entertain this trollish logic.

Which no one is disagreeing, we are talking about the stuff that made them, otherwise your logic also suggests that Cap's original shield=/= current shield=/= Ultron, Thor's SB=/= Mjolnir because they are designed differently(with different shapes) which is also irrefutable fact. Also people tend to use pure Vibranium feats for Vision even though he is not made of pure Vibranium.

Vibranium is one type of metal. Same thing applies to Uru. They're stagnant. "Kryptonian metal" is not, it's vague and not as direct as Vibranium. It's like saying "Earth metal" like... what type of Earth metal? There's loads, all varying in strengths, durability and having unique special properties that would prove to be advantageous or disadvantageous for multiple/different situations.

You're judging them based on their shapes( which has nothing to do with durability) rather than using their material.

*sigh*

can you prove that they are made from different materials? One was done in vacuum while the other under an atmosphere.

....That changes absolutely nothing. The face mask is also made out of Kryptonian material so was the robot Clark lolcrushed on the ship, are they all of a sudden now as durable as the World Engine?

Which would have worked if the materials had weaker and stronger feats but so far neither of them have and you also haven't proved they are different rather than using shapes which is unreliable.

You don't see the difference between one ship simply just surviving re-entry heat, another one surviving re-entry crash and another going through multiple skyscrapers?

My own narratives, huh? Okay tell me which one of my so called narratives never happened in the movie

1. The Black zero, tanked a blackhole

Lol

2. All Kryptonian metals from body armor, pods, drop-ships, scout ships, WE, Black zero have feats and the feats trump Earth metals?

Not all.

3. Black Zero was used to harbor the most wanted fugitive on the planet inside a secured location that is practically off planet and inside a bent space which took the explosion of a planet to break through.

The explosion destroyed the device used to transport the prisoners, freeing them in the process.

What controversy, Unless you're referring to the Full force of a star statement, which I'd ask you if you believe is true which I'm guessing you'd say yes but if I bring up any statement from DCEU you'd disagree?

Lol most of your posts are about DCEU fanboys and salt while doing nothing to deny the statements.

Oh those were glorious times, I'm tempted to go back into doing that again though. Made a lot of you guys butt-hurt.

I got a few of them though

Obviously this would involve me going through all your posts which you know I won't but I have a few scans where you supported the Star-feat and you were insulting/laughing at everyone who denied the feat

Supported star feat =/= relying on statements and quotes lol try again. You can support the star feat without claiming he took the full force of it. I know, mind boggling right?

No Caption Provided

Because it is true. Some were claiming there was no force in the feat, others were claiming it was a dead star and not giving off any energy (LOOOOL I remember that one). I'm merely reacting to the dumbassrey that was the DCEU fanboy logic. Good times man, good times...

No Caption Provided

The OP of that thread asked if the star feat was legit? To which I sarcastically replied no, because it challenges the consensus of Thor being weaksauce compared to Clark in any category.

Got any more you want to try and misinterpret?

Full context https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/does-infinity-war-thor-have-small-star-level-durab-1948030/?page=3

Full context https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-thor-star-forge-feat-legit-iw-1950255/?page=2

But no need to dig deep into your post when we can just settle this in a much simpler way.

It seems you have failed your mission, would you like to try again?

Do you think(based on the statement)Thor took the full force of a star?

Maybe, maybe not, who knows?

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#64 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01: To me, it seems all Kryptonian metal are the same in durability. At least two of their ships (The World Engine and Scout Ship 0344) straight up tanked orbital entry crashes. The fact that the Scout Ship was not intended to take such an impact, but still no-sold it and was still in great working condition 20,000 years later leads me to think all of their ships' metal is this durable.

We have no bad blood dude so I'll agree with you to a point about all Kryptonian metals being durable. However, I'll have to disagree with them being equal and stagnant.

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#65 Posted by macleen (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01:I see this is becoming rather pointless

Another thing to consider since you have zero arguments is that the Black Zero wasn't affected under Kryptonian gravity while Earth tech(buildings, cars, missiles, jets) were getting pancaked and dismantled by it. This alone shows just how structurally durable they are compared to earth tech.

Supported star feat =/= relying on statements and quotes lol try again. You can support the star feat without claiming he took the full force of it. I know, mind boggling right?

This is why I posted the link for the full context. You supported other debaters who take the statement to be true which means you also support the statement, it's that simple otherwise you would have debated against them the way you are against me.

The fact that you call them glorious times even shows your bias.

No one is saying Zod's ship is less durable than the other ships. I am saying they are not the same and lumping feats together doesn't work.

It's not called lumping it's called scaling, know the difference. The fact that you are refusing to straight up state your point further proves me right.

I never claimed to be a Kryptonian metal expert because I have yet to make any claims like you are. I am asking you to prove the validity of your claims. Creating headcanon is not proof.

Dude you just claimed Kryptonian metals are different without evidence supporting your claim.

Do you think(based on the statement)Thor took the full force of a star?

Maybe, maybe not, who knows?

It's hard to argue with someone who isn't even sure of his/her own side. This is the seconds time you used the maybe or maybe not answer so that it doesn't come to bite you in the ass in future. Smart move but also shows bias, Do you think the Black Zero tanked a black hole?

If you can't make up your own mind then we have to accept my side, so either step up and pick a side or don't bother.

Zod has durability feats that would make him laugh at the concepts of bullets. Good thing, your stupid ass logic is a two way street and Faora should be capable of fighting Doomsday and the JL, simply because Clark also did. You need to re-read my posts and nail my point through your head.

One more thing, keep the insults to yourself. Faora indeed should be capable of fighting DD, whether she can win of survive long enough to be acceptable is another thing. Superman himself fought DD yet he didn't damage him.

According to your logic:

Kryptonian body armor>>>>>> Scout ship>>>WE>>>escape pod>> Black Zero based on their individual performance against Superman. So I rest my argument and state that you failed both in LOGIC, COMMON SENSE and FEAT-WISE.

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#66 Posted by Batman242 (11531 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@rudebomberboy01: To me, it seems all Kryptonian metal are the same in durability. At least two of their ships (The World Engine and Scout Ship 0344) straight up tanked orbital entry crashes. The fact that the Scout Ship was not intended to take such an impact, but still no-sold it and was still in great working condition 20,000 years later leads me to think all of their ships' metal is this durable.

We have no bad blood dude so I'll agree with you to a point about all Kryptonian metals being durable. However, I'll have to disagree with them being equal and stagnant.

I'm trying to understand your point better. Which ship or metal from Krypton do you think isn't as durable as the others?

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#67 Edited by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen:

I see this is becoming rather pointless

It was pointless from the beginning as there was no reason to call me out for stating facts in the first place.

Another thing to consider since you have zero arguments is that the Black Zero wasn't affected under Kryptonian gravity while Earth tech(buildings, cars, missiles, jets) were getting pancaked and dismantled by it. This alone shows just how structurally durable they are compared to earth tech.

Never said it wasn't durable. Read.

This is why I posted the link for the full context. You supported other debaters who take the statement to be true which means you also support the statement

No, I made a blanket troll statement like I'd been doing for months on end. I never supported the idea of the full force star thing, instead I called out the DCEU fanboys who would use the statement to discredit the feat while using statements to approve another feat.

it's that simple otherwise you would have debated against them the way you are against me.

Do you also call out other rabid DCEU fanboys who make stupid and fallacious claims all the time?

The fact that you call them glorious times even shows your bias.

Shows my bias? Lol gerrofhere! And you're not biased? Who isn't biased on this site? They were indeed glorious times for me. It was pure art watching how butt-hurt some people got.

It's not called lumping it's called scaling, know the difference. The fact that you are refusing to straight up state your point further proves me right.

Scaling/lumping. Whatever. My point still stands.

Dude you just claimed Kryptonian metals are different without evidence supporting your claim.

You and I have very different definitions of that word because I remember posting videos and you calling them "anti-feats"

It's hard to argue with someone who isn't even sure of his/her own side. This is the seconds time you used the maybe or maybe not answer so that it doesn't come to bite you in the ass in future. Smart move but also shows bias,

Not everything is, admitting to be unsure is not wrong, nor should it be frowned upon. However, you claiming the Kryptonian metals all have the same type of durability simply because x did it and its Kryptonian isn't more or less right than me saying it isn't.

Do you think the Black Zero tanked a black hole?

LOL!

If you can't make up your own mind then we have to accept my side, so either step up and pick a side or don't bother.

Lol what is this? Some form of an invitation into a cult? "Accept this as fact or you're wrong"

One more thing, keep the insults to yourself.

Calling your logic stupid..... is not an insult. I'm attacking your argument, not you personally. You would know if I was insulting you.

Faora indeed should be capable of fighting DD, whether she can win of survive long enough to be acceptable is another thing. Superman himself fought DD yet he didn't damage him.

Okay.... hm mm

According to your logic:

Kryptonian body armor>>>>>> Scout ship>>>WE>>>escape pod>> Black Zero based on their individual performance against Superman.

Don't shove words in my mouth, I never made such claims.

So I rest my argument and state that you failed both in LOGIC, COMMON SENSE and FEAT-WISE.

You talking about me or you? Who's been creating speculative headcanon and trying to pass off his own narratives as feats again? *shrugs*

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#68 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242:

I'm trying to understand your point better. Which ship or metal from Krypton do you think isn't as durable as the others?

I'm trying to say we don't know if Zod's ship is as durable as the World Engine or the other ship or not, and simply lumping or "scaling" from others is kind of faulty as we have absolutely no idea.

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#69 Posted by Batman242 (11531 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242:

I'm trying to understand your point better. Which ship or metal from Krypton do you think isn't as durable as the others?

I'm trying to say we don't know if Zod's ship is as durable as the World Engine or the other ship or not, and simply lumping or "scaling" from others is kind of faulty as we have absolutely no idea.

Them having the same level of durability is harder to argue against than for. Clark has pierced the hull of every last one, after all.

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#70 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242:

Some easier than the other. But I'm hoping you got the point I was trying to make. No I'm not downplaying Clark here, never have, simply addressing the OP.

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#71 Posted by Batman242 (11531 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242:

Some easier than the other. But I'm hoping you got the point I was trying to make. No I'm not downplaying Clark here, never have, simply addressing the OP.

Sure, Clark has put more effort into some more than others, but he didn't do with the idea that he needed to exert more force, he was just in a race against time to save lives and the planet.

I get your point, honestly I do. It is a valid point. But understand mine; A ship that was not made with the idea that it would have to withstand orbital entry speed crashes happened to no-sell it. This proves that their metal (for me, anyway) can withstand a lot of force across the board. The environment the metal comes from is harsh. The gravity there would completely crush a human and their animal carcasses (which their armor is made of) can no-sell assault rifle fire, 40mm grenades, Minigun fire, 30mm rounds and Hellfire missiles exploding right on them. I don't think their armor absorbs anything from the sun or the Earth's atmosphere, because, ya know... It's dead.

The things that damaged their metals were; A C-17 (100+ tons) coming in at full speed, their own weaponry on both Krypton and Earth and a superpowered Kryptonian. When we compare what's damaged their metals to what couldn't, it seems their metal is a lot better than anything on Earth. We can also not forget that their metal can go thousands of years without deteriorating. The World Engine and their Dropships were found on a dead and forgotten outpost that would have been their for probably 10,000+ years since they stopped outworld exploration for quite some time.... Probably around the time that Kara left. The elements known to us would've rusted and deteriorate much faster than that time.

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#72 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4525 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242:

Fair enough, you have convinced me and I agree with you.

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#73 Posted by Batman242 (11531 posts) - - Show Bio
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#74 Posted by SpeedforceUser_ (322 posts) - - Show Bio

Destroying material that can withstand orbital re-entry and no-sell its impact alone qualifies as powerful feat. Outright doing it with no effort puts Clark at herald level by cinematic standards IMO.

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#75 Posted by Tenguswordsman (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

This is Supes at his most powerful:

No Caption Provided

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#76 Posted by Supermanforever (8069 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

It isn't mentioned as much as it should be.

I know about that feat. But im usually to lazy to bring it.

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#77 Posted by deactivated-5b3e40c1c0bb8 (487 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah but re entry does heat damage...

Until it hits the ground at re entry speeds.