DCEU Doomsday and Superman nuke level, Debunked!!

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#1 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

Recently rewatching Mos again I noticed a feat that clearly debunks that Clark or Doomsday survived the BVS nuke except for radiation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PC0-rxyI3ik

In the link at 1:28 we see Zod's cape on fire and he reaps it and throws it away. It's set on fire due to the garage explosion which is vastly lower than the heat of a nuke.

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Clark's cape is similar as he got it from the Krypton ship and no mention was made of it being any special. Therefore it should be burnt by similar temperatures. Fuel burns much less than 1000 degrees hence why engines don't melt. A nuke is 50 million degrees and should easily vaporize Krypton capes.

Since Clark's cape was untouched, it stands to reason that it was not exposed to the heat of the nuke.

Again BVS went to went to extreme lengths to show us that the nuke detonated twice the distance of " Starfish Threshold"

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As shown here the nuke detonation was twice as high as " Starfish Threshold"

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Now Nasa states that if a nuke is exploded in space only radiation is emitted.

Heat and Blast are 75% of a nukes destructive capacity. So in this scenario Doomsday and Clark are only exposed to 15% of the nuke. Add also that DD is amped by absorbing radiation, he therefore can't be said to have even tanked that. Also Clark was left comatose with his skin flaking, so he didn't even survive it.

It is therefore unreasonable to assume that any Kryptonian in Dceu can tank or even survive a nuke.

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#2 Posted by MAZAHS117 (13643 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by kalkent (3763 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a terrible debunk. As if the DCEU Writers would care to show Superman's cape vaporized from the nuke. Then again, this is expected from a classic DCEU Lowballer like you. That screenshot is also a terrible example, considering it is talking about if there is absolutely no medium at all. Guess what the medium is in this case? Clark and Doomsday.

Also, Clark didn't die because the sun can't bring back dead kryptonians, confirmed by snyder and dceu directors themselves.

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#4 Posted by Skrskr (4028 posts) - - Show Bio

I said this a while back, not necessarily because of the cape but just because of the change in affect that happens to nuke in space.

Superman did not tank the blast of the nuke because there is literally no blast in space.

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#5 Edited by Heatforce (6882 posts) - - Show Bio

First let me say good job finding the starfish threshold on the screen.

That stated, I have a few problems:

1. You point to Zod's cape being set ablaze in MoS but remember BvS Clark in the Senate explosion?

2. While the starfish threshold on the screen and the visual representation of the nuke exploding (below) agree with your points, we still need to take the other factors into account:

A) Both Clark and the Military thought the Nuke would kill both of them even though it was clearly detonated in Space sooo why would a glorified EMP be an emergency option?

B) there is still the inertia from the missle that DD and Supes were impacted with. Why weren't both Clark and Doomsday hurled into space? Doomsday re-entered the atmosphere and Clark was in orbit.

Science + Writers = ?‍♂️

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#6 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalkent said:

This is a terrible debunk. As if the DCEU Writers would care to show Superman's cape vaporized from the nuke.

Why would they not, Snyder directed both movies so if his intention was to show at what temperature the cape melts why would he do it for Zod and not Supes?

Then again, this is expected from a classic DCEU Lowballer like you.

Lol coming from a guy named kalkent...

That screenshot is also a terrible example, considering it is talking about if there is absolutely no medium at all.

Why do you think they showed the Starfish Threshold? It was to emphasize that the nuke blew up in space. There can be no other reason

Guess what the medium is in this case? Clark and Doomsday.

A nuke is also covered by a missile but those are the results actual Nasa found. What's your qualifications BTW?

Also, Clark didn't die because the sun can't bring back dead kryptonians, confirmed by snyder and dceu directors themselves.

I didn't say he died I said he was comatose, read much?

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#7 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (18830 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a reach

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#8 Posted by MarvelandDCfan24 (8262 posts) - - Show Bio

This is pretty stupid... I guess Clark didn't no sell the senate explosion because his cape was fine afterwards

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#9 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

First let me say good job finding the starfish threshold on the screen.

Thanks

That stated, I have a few problems:

1. You point to Zod's cape being set ablaze in MoS but remember BvS Clark in the Senate explosion?

Plot Induced Stupidity? Or the heat of the bomb was lower than that of the garage. The building was intake after the bomb also.

2. While the starfish threshold on the screen and the visual representation of the nuke exploding (below) agree with your points, we still need to take the other factors into account:

A) Both Clark and the Military thought the Nuke would kill both of them even though it was clearly detonated in Space sooo why would a glorified EMP be an emergency option?

TBH radiation is no joke in Japan half of the deaths where due to radiation alone. Also the President is not usually a nuke expect and could have just assumed they would die.

B) there is still the inertia from the missle that DD and Supes were impacted with. Why weren't both Clark and Doomsday hurled into space? Doomsday re-entered the atmosphere and Clark was in orbit.

Science + Writers = ?‍♂️

That was dumb. But why even fire a nuke when it's clear Superman was succeeding bfr

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#10 Posted by Richubs (7521 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Senate explosion was bigger in any case.

2. They went through a gas station when Zod's cape "caught on fire". Which means the cape would be doused in fuel. So even if the Cape doesn't catch fire the fuel surrounding it would keep burning.

In any case this is a feeble debunk imo.

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#11 Edited by Heatforce (6882 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:@heatforce said: First let me say good job finding the starfish threshold on the screen.

Thanks

That stated, I have a few problems:

1. You point to Zod's cape being set ablaze in MoS but remember BvS Clark in the Senate explosion?

Plot Induced Stupidity? Or the heat of the bomb was lower than that of the garage. The building was intake after the bomb also.

2. While the starfish threshold on the screen and the visual representation of the nuke exploding (below) agree with your points, we still need to take the other factors into account:

A) Both Clark and the Military thought the Nuke would kill both of them even though it was clearly detonated in Space sooo why would a glorified EMP be an emergency option?

TBH radiation is no joke in Japan half of the deaths where due to radiation alone. Also the President is not usually a nuke expect and could have just assumed they would die.

B) there is still the inertia from the missle that DD and Supes were impacted with. Why weren't both Clark and Doomsday hurled into space? Doomsday re-entered the atmosphere and Clark was in orbit.

Science + Writers = ?‍♂️

That was dumb. But why even fire a nuke when it's clear Superman was succeeding bfr

I actually think you brought up a very good point that MCU stans could realistically use in debates. I just don't think it's foolproof because if scientific accuracy was the point of the nuke scene then it fails to be scientifically accurate in other areas.

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#12 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs said:

1. Senate explosion was bigger in any case.

Bigger doesn't mean hotter in anycase

2. They went through a gas station when Zod's cape "caught on fire". Which means the cape would be doused in fuel. So even if the Cape doesn't catch fire the fuel surrounding it would keep burning.

They didn't go through any gas tanks though. Even if they did Zod would have been engulfed in flames not just the cape. That excuse doesn't hold up.

In any case this is a feeble debunk imo.

Sigh....

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#13 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: I actually think you brought up a very good point that MCU stans could realistically use in debates. I just don't think it's full proof because if scientific accuracy was the point of the nuke scene then it fails to be scientifically accurate in other areas.

Its difficult for anything to be scientifically accurate 100% in a movie, but we have to respect the intent of the Directors. And if they made a conscious effort to show the Starfish Threshold then we have to respect that they intenede to show that the nuke was not at full power.

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#14 Posted by incursion2 (2599 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't get the cape thing but the starfish threshold is a good point

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#15 Posted by Heatforce (6882 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: well on that note how do we know DD was absorbing the radiation? You see the radiation ionizing in the atmosphere. I think if we take your starfish point at face value, DD evolution could have just been from re-entry.

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#16 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: well on that note how do we know DD was absorbing the radiation? You see the radiation ionizing in the atmosphere. I think if we take your starfish point at face value, DD evolution could have just been from re-entry.

Because DD got stronger also when Superman bullrushed him into the facility. And the unanimous statements from both the movie and VFX directors stated he got stronger from the nuke

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#17 Posted by uugieboogie (13754 posts) - - Show Bio

8/10 troll attempt

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#18 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't get the cape thing but the starfish threshold is a good point

Thanks. The cape video is to establish baseline temperature for burning Cape. Nuke temperatures are much higher so if the Cape didn't burn then it wasn't exposed to the heat of a nuke

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#19 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

8/10 troll attempt

Wait are you saying that the nuke was full power and that what was shown in the movie is not true?

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#20 Posted by uugieboogie (13754 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:
@uugieboogie said:

8/10 troll attempt

Wait are you saying that the nuke was full power and that what was shown in the movie is not true?

My bad, I honestly stopped reading at the cape thing. The starfish threshold part actually makes sense and is a good catch too.

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#21 Posted by macleen (3767 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: What about the capitol explosion? DD AOE and HV? Faora got hit by a missile and her cape was also fine. you're just reaching.

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#22 Posted by TheSpartanB345T (5226 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs said:

1. Senate explosion was bigger in any case.

2. They went through a gas station when Zod's cape "caught on fire". Which means the cape would be doused in fuel. So even if the Cape doesn't catch fire the fuel surrounding it would keep burning.

In any case this is a feeble debunk imo.

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#23 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

@thanosii: What about the capitol explosion?

What about it? Can you prove it was hotter than the garage explosion?

DD AOE

Batman also tanked that heat by hiding behind a slab and it did not set alight the church Lois was in or the building DD was on in the first emission. It is more force than heat.

and HV?

When did heat vision hit the cape?

Faora got hit by a missile and her cape was also fine. you're just reaching.

I'm not sure about this one we don't see the cape when Namek picks her up. But it is not reaching when I even posted a pic of the cape burning enough that Zod rips it off. And it doesn't discount my other points.

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#24 Posted by NWName (5485 posts) - - Show Bio

The cape "point" just brings this down to near troll levels

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#25 Posted by Worldofthunder (5192 posts) - - Show Bio

What has Cv come to

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#26 Posted by death4bunnies (3365 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii:

If you'd be so kind id like to ask you 2 questions....respectfully.

----

1. Why do you think Supermans cape and Zods cape are made of the same material?

----

2. What did Supermans Kryptonian father do for a living on krypton?

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#27 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

My bad, I honestly stopped reading at the cape thing.
The Cape burning is a but tricky but it did happen so we can't entirely discard it. If we do then we have to discard all its durability feats too.
The starfish threshold part actually makes sense and is a good catch too.
Thanks

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9 (8670 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow! For the Cape thing, my head canon has to do with a bio electric field, zod's would be contained in his armor (explains why he had to tear it off before flying), superman's would cover his Cape too.

The nuke went off, people weren't looking at an EMP in space, it was visible to the people of metropolis from space.

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#29 Edited by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@death4bunnies said:

@thanosii:

If you'd be so kind id like to ask you 2 questions....respectfully.

----

Sure

1. Why do you think Supermans cape and Zods cape are made of the same material?

---- Theres no evidence that they different. Zods cape was also attached to battle armour while Clark's was just part of a body suit that they wear beneath the armour. So if anything Zod's cape would likely be more durable. Also when Jor El gave Clark the cape it was not intended for war but peace and hope, so there was no reason to make it more durable than Zods army cape.

2. What did Supermans Kryptonian father do for a living on krypton?

He was a Scientist and the suit he gave Clark was made from materials already in the scout ship on earth. So no special materials

What do you think of my supporting point about the nuke

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#30 Posted by The_Agent_Of_Chaos (1588 posts) - - Show Bio

The “cape” point is one of the worst trolls attemp I have ever seen , Doomsday is stated to have gotten a nuke aganist and to absorb its 100% confirmed there are no debunking sorry , it’s just that doomsday is obv stronger and more durable than Zod...

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#31 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow! For the Cape thing, my head canon has to do with a bio electric field, zod's would be contained in his armor (explains why he had to tear it off before flying), superman's would cover his Cape too.

Is there a mention of this field by any WoG cannon source?

The nuke went off, people weren't looking at an EMP in space, it was visible to the people of metropolis from space.

The nuke detonated but what people saw was ionized radiation. The video on post #5 shows this from irl space detonations. It's not a blast wave

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#32 Posted by Amcu (17521 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally I don't agree with the cape thing but regardless I do think the argument that the nuke was in space is valid.

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#33 Edited by Rijehu (2149 posts) - - Show Bio

By the Eight, the Deadra, and all the entities of TES lore...This is it...this is really it...possibly the most UNFATHOMABLY idiotic thing I’ve seen to date.

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#34 Posted by death4bunnies (3365 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii:

I’m not on my computer so I can’t direct quote you; I apologize for the change up in formatting but I think we can manage.

———

There are many fabrics on earth and it’s the only real life planet I know with fabric it’s the only analog I can look to.

——-

I would think there the different capes shown heat resistance (great breakdown of their durability by the way) is enough evidence that they are made of different materials.

——-

Separately the design and functionality of Clark’s suit seems altogether different (no breathing mask, no metal armor) it seems his dad made his suit different then the others.

-/——

Lastly have you heard of tactile TK.

Some say a energy field envelops Superman (like in the comics) and in some case he can extend this field out (this is used to explain how he lifts buildings without breaking them).

If you’ve never heard of it it’s a cool concept.

———

IDK if this is enough to sway you, but I’m sure you can understand how a reasonable person may just take the nuke feat at face value.

———

Respectfully.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9 (8670 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: naa, no mention of the field but clark also went through the explosion and his Cape was alright

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#36 Edited by Heatforce (6882 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour said:

Wow! For the Cape thing, my head canon has to do with a bio electric field, zod's would be contained in his armor (explains why he had to tear it off before flying), superman's would cover his Cape too.

The nuke went off, people weren't looking at an EMP in space, it was visible to the people of metropolis from space.

I dunno check out the video i linked earlier; shows radiation ionizing in the atmosphere similar to bvs. The OP has a point imo regarding the starfish threshold and the screen showing the nuke detonating higher than that. I just feel like if we are going for accuracy:

Scientifically - certain elements do not line up

Creatively - i feel like I would need confirmation from Snyder or one of the writers that they inden6ded to be scientifically accurate and that the starfish threshold on the screen wasn't just an easter egg or something.

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#37 Posted by deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9 (8670 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: I mean come on, in the same movie we had a manhole tank 300db, not all of it is meant to be scientifically sound

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#38 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

Personally I don't agree with the cape thing but regardless I do think the argument that the nuke was in space is valid.

Just curious are you denying that the video shows Zod's cape burning? Or is it that you think it's inconsistent

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#39 Posted by Kingyang (932 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: Nuke in space is valid because filmmakers are not Neil Degrasse Tyson. If you start that nonsense then strength feats dont count in space because you know "science".

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#40 Posted by Kevd4wg (14288 posts) - - Show Bio

People making good points about the Capital Building explosion being weaker then we thought

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#41 Posted by Amcu (17521 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii: I just don't think that detail was meant to mean anything. And Kryptonian clothing has withstood explosions and other energy attacks without being burned at all.

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#42 Posted by Amcu (17521 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

People making good points about the Capital Building explosion being weaker then we thought

I've never found that impressive. IIRC some of the people in the building survived that explosion. And it didn't even destroy the building fully. Never understood why people used that for Clark.

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#43 Posted by Kirkseven (3647 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

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#44 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii:

I’m not on my computer so I can’t direct quote you; I apologize for the change up in formatting but I think we can manage.

——— Cool I'm on my phone too just used " desktop site" option

There are many fabrics on earth and it’s the only real life planet I know with fabric it’s the only analog I can look to.

——- no argument here.

I would think there the different capes shown heat resistance (great breakdown of their durability by the way) is enough evidence that they are made of different materials.

——- they look the same except for color though

Separately the design and functionality of Clark’s suit seems altogether different (no breathing mask, no metal armor) it seems his dad made his suit different then the others.

That was a hologram of his father so it couldn't synthesize any new materials just what was on the ship.

-/——

Lastly have you heard of tactile TK.

Some say a energy field envelops Superman (like in the comics) and in some case he can extend this field out (this is used to explain how he lifts buildings without breaking them).

If you’ve never heard of it it’s a cool concept.

——— yeah I have, but don't you think we need a source to apply it to Dceu?

IDK if this is enough to sway you, but I’m sure you can understand how a reasonable person may just take the nuke feat at face value.

———

Respectfully.

No problem, thanks for the comment

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#45 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: I mean come on, in the same movie we had a manhole tank 300db, not all of it is meant to be scientifically sound

If we take that stance then no one can deny Thor tanking " the full force of a star" because.... Science.

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#46 Posted by The_Agent_Of_Chaos (1588 posts) - - Show Bio

I can’t believe we are really arguing over this....

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#47 Posted by thanosii (3269 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

@thanosii: I just don't think that detail was meant to mean anything. And Kryptonian clothing has withstood explosions and other energy attacks without being burned at all.

Could be I respect that opinion

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#48 Posted by death4bunnies (3365 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii:

Dam thanks for the tip, I’m gonna figure out how to do the desktop thing.(I already found a thread about it)

———

I don’t think that was just a hologram of Joe el but a kinda AI.

I would just figure that Jor El could maybe synth something better then the average kryptonian solider gets issued. IDK maybe just extra silicate or something.

Like a fabric blend, a heat resistant race at drivers suit as opposed to a suit that a unenhanced kryptonian soldier would wear.

——-

As to whether we need official confirmation of the TK field thing, I’d agree and say yes.

——

I agree they look kinda the same, but so do some earth fabrics that have fire resistance.

I think the separate feats show that the fabrics are different.

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#49 Posted by Amcu (17521 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingyang said:

@amcu: Nuke in space is valid because filmmakers are not Neil Degrasse Tyson. If you start that nonsense then strength feats dont count in space because you know "science".

The filmmakers went out of there way to show and that this was happening in space, and the nuke explosion honestly reminds me of the IRL video in post 5 that shows a nuke being detonated in space.

There's no sound at all when it detonates. We don't get to see the nuke in BvS that well but from what we see the explosion just expands in a very odd way that doesn't look like a normal explosion.

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In that second image you can see it in the top left corner. Does that look like a normal explosion to you? I've never seen a nuke in fiction or IRL that reminded me at all of that except this one. Which is the real life image of a nuke going off in space.

No Caption Provided

Honestly I don't think its a reach that they may have intended for it to be in space and even tried to make the nuke look as if it was detonated in space when they did the VFX.

The intention of the scene was to show Superman and Doomsday survive a nuke and that's what is shown. The fact that it was in space may diminish it in the eyes of us that want to debate feats because we prefer feats that relate to force or heat but at the end of the day surviving the radiation is still something very few beings would survive.

As for strength feats I've seen people arguing strength feats don't count in space for a decent while now.

I don't want to derail this thread with a character that's not in it but if your referring to MCU Thor the reason that I've personally debated that his Nidavellir feat still counts despite it being space is because you can easily see that Nidavellir had gravity. Additionally the object was so massive that I believe it would still be a good strength feat when you take into account the lack of friction. But I don't ignore science. That's why I don't argue that Thor is a multi million tonner.

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#50 Posted by Mrnoital (8491 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs said:

1. Senate explosion was bigger in any case.

2. They went through a gas station when Zod's cape "caught on fire". Which means the cape would be doused in fuel. So even if the Cape doesn't catch fire the fuel surrounding it would keep burning.

In any case this is a feeble debunk imo.

Seems legit, I read that a dollar bill soaked in alcohol won't actually burn, just the alcohol around it(I wouldn't try it out myself though)