Daredevil is NOT a "Batman ripoff"

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TylerDurden7272

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Ok so as of lately with Daredevil becoming increasingly popular due to the Netflix series (which is awesome btw), a lot of fanboys are bringing up the age old "oh he's a Batman ripoff" myth. Just how did this myth start? I have absolutely no idea because anyone who's read both character knows they are very different characters. I guess it must come from the rabid Batman fanboy trolls who don't know any better, but let's see how far this goes.

Batman has been inspired by Daredevil much more than Daredevil has been inspired by him. See, Daredevil was revolutionized by Frank Miller in 1979, 7 years before he would eventually write Batman. Yes DC took Batman back to his noir roots with Neil Adams and Denny O'neil but they were both very frustrated with how much DC were holding them back. It wasn't until DC took notice of how DARK Frank Miller's Daredevil was and just how much it was selling that they began to take notice.

So the funny thing is, if it wasn't for Daredevil's iconic Frank Miller run, Batman would not be the same Dark character he is today. DC never would have picked Miller up and we wouldn't have iconic stories like TDKR and Year One which allowed for Batman's dark world to began.

Daredevil was dark WAY before Batman ever was and it was because of Daredevil that Batman ever became dark.

Fanboys need to learn their comic history before making stupid accusations about a character they've never read and barely know.

Another thing, Batman writers legit ripped off a Daredevil story as well. Knightfall 1993, one of Batman's most famous stories was incredibly inspired by Daredevil Born Again 1986. Both stories show a character at his lowest, being tortured by their enemy and rising up through the only thing they know how to do...fight. The only difference...Knightfall was published 7 years after Born Again.

So we not only have Batman becoming Dark as a result of Daredevil but he also takes massive inspiration from one of his stories

I'm starting to wonder just who the "ripoff" is?

But the thing is, I know that they are completely different characters. I know that Matt is much more darker and brutal than Batman, I know that Matt is Matt, even when he has the mask on, I know that it's the exact opposite with Batman who is always Batman even when he puts the mask of Bruce Wane on, I know that Matt is an emotional human being who often gets very close with women and pays the price for it while Bats distances himself as far away from women because he isn't emotional, he is a logical, calculating, computer like human being. Daredevil doesn't take in teenage sidekicks, he's not on a team of Gods, he hasn't mastered 127 different Martial Arts (even though he is a beast), he doesn't sit in a cave planning his tactics and strategies. He's just a guy who's trying to do the right thing and protect his neighborhood. He's always been an underdog while Batman is the exact opposite. Matt is much more of a human being, becomes very close with the women he loves, let's his emotions cloud his judgment often, has a wicked temper. He's probably the archetype of a vigilante (besides the Punisher). He's crossed the line more times than any other hero ever has. He's killed before by accident and has attempted to kill many times. The psychological toll that it would have on a man who isn't a logical, calculating computer like Batman is extremely intense. He's even attempted suicide before.

Daredevil has always stayed true to his crime roots while Batman has went towards a James Bond route in the last 20 years. He went from "the world's greatest detective" to "the world's greatest prep master".

These characters have such little in common, it isn't even funny. I have absolutely no idea where this notion that Matt is a rip-off of Batman came from. I heard one fanboy troll try to convince me that he looks similar because he has horns. Usually they always bring up how they look similar and it somehow comes down to the "horns". Look, Matt has "horns" that protrude out of his forehead while Batman's "horns" align parallel to his ears. If that's the only thing they have in common aesthetic wise then I am dumbfounded. I'm pretty sure Batman doesn't own the rights to "horns" ether. I'm also pretty sure Batman isn't a completely original character ether. Shadow, Zorro, The Phantom and others of the Pulp genre have been around years before Batman. Fanboys need to stop sh*tting on other characters. The only true thing they share in common is that they are dark and are of the Pulp-Noir genre but neither of them started the genre nor are they the first characters to have dark storytelling.

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StormShadow_X

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@testament:

Dude. No one takes them seriously. Any real Comic book Fan Knows DarDevil is his own Character. I mean Murdock is my 2nd fav Marvel Character. Batman isn't even in the top 10. If I had to say who's had better stories and supporting characters I'd give it to Batman but seeing as he's one of the big 2 at DC and Dare Devil isn't even apart of the big 5 at marvel, it makes sense. Still no need to insult the Batman. He's only called the prep master because of said fanboys. everyone knows no amount of prep would save him from Bloodlusted Superman. Batman is also his own character. He was based off zoro but has grown out of that for maybe 40 years. Both are badass characters.

Just one got the bigger push and too the general public is more appealing.

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Cream_God

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Peeps are just salty

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Rubear

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@testament: Good, good, let the anger flow through you...

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AssertingValor

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He different we know

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Darling_Luna

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kgb725

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Who said that he was ?

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Billy Batson

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Rubear

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Before Batman there were penny dreadful, short novels and pulp mag characters like The Phantom, Clock, Nick Carter, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Flash Gordon, Sexton Blake, Solomon Kane, Spider, Zorro, The Shadow

You kidding, yeah?)))

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TylerDurden7272

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#11  Edited By TylerDurden7272

@testament:

Dude. No one takes them seriously. Any real Comic book Fan Knows DarDevil is his own Character. I mean Murdock is my 2nd fav Marvel Character. Batman isn't even in the top 10. If I had to say who's had better stories and supporting characters I'd give it to Batman but seeing as he's one of the big 2 at DC and Dare Devil isn't even apart of the big 5 at marvel, it makes sense. Still no need to insult the Batman. He's only called the prep master because of said fanboys. everyone knows no amount of prep would save him from Bloodlusted Superman. Batman is also his own character. He was based off zoro but has grown out of that for maybe 40 years. Both are badass characters.

Just one got the bigger push and too the general public is more appealing.

Sorry man, I just had a fanboy call the show "Batman wannabe begins" and I wanted to make this article so I could just copy and past it whenever I need to. I've actually always been a huge Batman fan, it's just his fanboys really suck lol. Now as for Batman having better stories, I feel inclined to disagree. Bendis's run was for me perhaps the best comic book run of the last decade and you can tell the show is taking a lot of inspiration from his run

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Zero_Dreams

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Daredevil is an unnecessary character - another rip-off with only a hint of originality. I never saw the appeal.

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TylerDurden7272

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#13  Edited By TylerDurden7272

@zero_dreams said:

Daredevil is an unnecessary character - another rip-off with only a hint of originality. I never saw the appeal.

Didn't read the article I see

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theacidskull

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You misspelled "Arrow"

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The_Caped_Crusader

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Zero_Dreams

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RisingBean

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Daredevil is an unnecessary character - another rip-off with only a hint of originality. I never saw the appeal.

Any character created in the last one hundred years is a rip off character with only a hint of originality. All fiction is unnecessary.

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TylerDurden7272

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@zero_dreams said:

Daredevil is an unnecessary character - another rip-off with only a hint of originality. I never saw the appeal.

Any character created in the last one hundred years is a rip off character with only a hint of originality. All fiction is unnecessary.

Yea I was gonna say, what the heck is unnecessary/necessary fiction? That made no sense what so ever.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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Daredevil is literally the antitheses of Batman.

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RisingBean

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Yea I was gonna say, what the heck is unnecessary/necessary fiction? That made no sense what so ever.

He sounds emotional. I wouldn't worry about it. As far as people on other sites, they'll also talk without really knowing what they say. I wouldn't sweat them either. People hate success. It threatens them when something other then their favorite is succeeding.

As it stands DD and Batman are characters who are very similar in broad strokes. It's the details that really set them apart.

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StormShadow_X

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#21  Edited By StormShadow_X

@testament said:

@stormshadow_x said:

@testament:

Dude. No one takes them seriously. Any real Comic book Fan Knows DarDevil is his own Character. I mean Murdock is my 2nd fav Marvel Character. Batman isn't even in the top 10. If I had to say who's had better stories and supporting characters I'd give it to Batman but seeing as he's one of the big 2 at DC and Dare Devil isn't even apart of the big 5 at marvel, it makes sense. Still no need to insult the Batman. He's only called the prep master because of said fanboys. everyone knows no amount of prep would save him from Bloodlusted Superman. Batman is also his own character. He was based off zoro but has grown out of that for maybe 40 years. Both are badass characters.

Just one got the bigger push and too the general public is more appealing.

Sorry man, I just had a fanboy call the show "Batman wannabe begins" and I wanted to make this article so I could just copy and past it whenever I need to. I've actually always been a huge Batman fan, it's just his fanboys really suck lol. Now as for Batman having better stories, I feel inclined to disagree. Bendis's run was for me perhaps the best comic book run of the last decade and you can tell the show is taking a lot of inspiration from his run

Oh Dude I hear ya. I'll probably end up doing a rant like this soon for different subject. Now when I say Batman has had better stories I mean a lot of his stories are good (not to say he doesn't have bad ones) but even his latest one from the New 52 such as Death In The Family, Court Of Owls and Robin Rises (Which is a love or hate thing) have been really good. Going back too pre 52 with stories like Hush and Knightfall, Batman has a lot more better stories. Course Bendis run on DareDevil is as good as most of these. Just that Daredevil doesn't have the opportunity to pump out the best stories because he's not Marvels poster boy. If he was I have no doubt Batman would find a true rival in story telling.

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Saren

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Actually, Giordano and Miller based TDKR and that version of Batman on Dirty Harry in Sudden Impact, not on Miller's Daredevil run. The idea that Batman only became dark because of Daredevil is ludicrous, especially when you consider the fact that the 80's saw a tidal wave of "grim and gritty" comics from DC. It had more to do with the British Invasion than any of Miller's work, because Alan Moore's stories and the reception they got were what pushed DC editorial to order stories with those themes and bring in writers with those sensibilities.

Equally ludicrous is the comparison between Born Again and Knightfall, and here I just feel irritated because Born Again is legitimately one of my favorite comic book stories. But it wasn't a novel concept in 1986; it had been done plenty of times before, and around the same time writers were doing the same thing with Kraven's Last Hunt and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?. I mean, I don't think Bendis ripped off Bruce Wayne: Fugitive when he wrote The Devil in Cell Block D. It's been done before. The Knightfall story does not have any similarities to Born Again beyond a hero losing to a villain; Batman never fights Bane to get back what he lost because Azrael gets there first, and most of the story after Bane breaks Batman's back is more about Jean-Paul Valley and his descent into madness than it is about Batman.

But the thing is, I know that they are completely different characters. I know that Matt is much more darker and brutal than Batman, I know that Matt is Matt, even when he has the mask on, I know that it's the exact opposite with Batman who is always Batman even when he puts the mask of Bruce Wane on, I know that Matt is an emotional human being who often gets very close with women and pays the price for it while Bats distances himself as far away from women because he isn't emotional, he is a logical, calculating, computer like human being. Daredevil doesn't take in teenage sidekicks, he's not on a team of Gods, he hasn't mastered 127 different Martial Arts (even though he is a beast), he doesn't sit in a cave planning his tactics and strategies. He's just a guy who's trying to do the right thing and protect his neighborhood. He's always been an underdog while Batman is the exact opposite. Matt is much more of a human being, becomes very close with the women he loves, let's his emotions cloud his judgment often, has a wicked temper. He's probably the archetype of a vigilante (besides the Punisher). He's crossed the line more times than any other hero ever has. He's killed before by accident and has attempted to kill many times. The psychological toll that it would have on a man who isn't a logical, calculating computer like Batman is extremely intense. He's even attempted suicide before.

This is an awful lot of words to say Batman's not satisfied with being a loser.

Daredevil has always stayed true to his crime roots while Batman has went towards a James Bond route in the last 20 years. He went from "the world's greatest detective" to "the world's greatest prep master".

It's called evolving, Matthew. People might not think you were a Batman ripoff if you'd bothered doing it at any point of time.

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deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3

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@saren: Brubaker wrote The Devil in Cell Block D

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Saren

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@sprior93: Huh, could have sworn it was Bendis. I guess Brubaker was ripping himself off, then, since he also wrote Fugitive.

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TylerDurden7272

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@stormshadow_x:

Yea but the cool thing about DD not being Marvel's poster boy means that he has more underground status. Kind of like Constantine, Lucifer Morningstar, Fabels, etc. all of these characters are no where Batman's popularity but some of them have had much better stories (in my opinion). Swamp Thing isn't well known and his Alan Moore run is regarded as one of the greatest runs ever.

Also when Joe Quesda was the editor and cheif at Marvel, he always made sure Daredevil had some of the best writers and artists. And I would also like to add that Born Again is up there as one of the greatest stories of all time.

What I'm trying to say is, fame or status doesn't really mean better writing or stories. It just means broder fans

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Pharoh_Atem

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Daredevil wishes he was a tenth as relevant, popular, or as iconic, as Batman.

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StormShadow_X

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@testament:

I never stated popularity dictated how good stories were, it can however dictate how much work a company puts into it. DareDevil has had some good stories. Just not more than Batman. None of the people you listed have. ( Take this with a grain of salt as I'm not into most of those characters and only know about them from a friend, the most I may know out of them are Swamp thing and Constantine)

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Jonny_Anonymous

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@saren: Your insecurity is showing

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ScouterV

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So Daredevil had a hand in getting rid of the camp?

No wonder I've always hated the guy.

I'm just joshing. JK, ya'll. Not for real-real. Just for play-play.

But I am a little miffed.

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Saren

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@saren: Your insecurity is showing

If there were any single group of fans in the comic book community who had the least reason to be insecure about anything, it would be the Batman fans. You know why you don't see a swarm of topics going on about how "OMG BATMAN ISN'T A SHADOW RIPOFF"? It's because we don't care. Nobody even knows who the Shadow is. Everyone knows who Batman is. There isn't anything to prove.

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TylerDurden7272

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@saren:

I actually wasn't referring to Miller's Batman being based on Miller's Daredevil. I was saying that Miller's take on Daredevil a character who was barely selling, skyrocketed into success and for a time became one of Marvel's best selling characters. Batman was noir but not "dark". And it was like this for a while. When DC took notice of Miller's stellar run on Daredevil, it allowed DC to pick him up and write Batman. Miller also started writing Batman before Alan Moore IIRC.

My point is that had it not been for Frank Miller's success with Daredevil, Batman would not have had Miller writing him.

I would like to concede and apologize for my example of Born Again and Knightfall. I was using the same logic that the fanboys were using. Born Again is my favorite story of all time, so I apologize for the crude comparison.

And Brubaker definitely wrote The Devil In Cell Block D

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Thor_Parker82

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Daredevil >>>>>>>>>>> Batman.

Matt is much more interesting and overall a better character IMO, he is nothing like Batman,they don´t have anything in common except maybe a similar costume.

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Straight-Fire

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LOL.

No one CARES about Daredevil. Well, not as much as Batman, of course.

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VoloErgoMalus

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#34  Edited By VoloErgoMalus

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Daredevil wishes he was a tenth as relevant, popular, or as iconic, as Batman.

No he doesn't. I don't want to say "your insecurity is showing" but...

@saren said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@saren: Your insecurity is showing

If there were any single group of fans in the comic book community who had the least reason to be insecure about anything, it would be the Batman fans. You know why you don't see a swarm of topics going on about how "OMG BATMAN ISN'T A SHADOW RIPOFF"? It's because we don't care. Nobody even knows who the Shadow is. Everyone knows who Batman is. There isn't anything to prove.

...insecurity isn't all about denying lacking desirable traits. Having and flaunting them can be just as indicative. Drawing attention to Batman's popularity (only very weakly correlated with merit, as characters like Deadpool prove) could be an effort to distract from other problems. Insecure bat fans do exist.

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_Mongul

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#35  Edited By _Mongul
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Jonny_Anonymous

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_Mongul

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TylerDurden7272

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@saren said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

@saren: Your insecurity is showing

If there were any single group of fans in the comic book community who had the least reason to be insecure about anything, it would be the Batman fans. You know why you don't see a swarm of topics going on about how "OMG BATMAN ISN'T A SHADOW RIPOFF"? It's because we don't care. Nobody even knows who the Shadow is. Everyone knows who Batman is. There isn't anything to prove.

Your comparison makes no sense. Shadow doesn't have rabid fanboys. Batman has 1000s of them. I made this right after a fanboy called the series "Batman wannabe begins". I wanted to make an article addressing the topic because I think it's important people know the distinction.

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StormShadow_X

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All this thread has done is bring out different sides saying that Batman is on a different level and rag on DareDevil and Those saying DareDevil is better while ragging on Batman. I see some certain Marvel and DC Fanboys who I'd know take one side over another. :/ Sigh

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TylerDurden7272

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LOL.

No one CARES about Daredevil. Well, not as much as Batman, of course.

Except the person above who said, and I quote.

Daredevil >>>>>>>>>>> Batman.

Matt is much more interesting and overall a better character IMO, he is nothing like Batman,they don´t have anything in common except maybe a similar costume.

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TheDandyMan

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Is every single street-leveller a rip-off of Batman?

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_Mongul

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Pharoh_Atem

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#43  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@darthmummy:

So, Daredevil doesn't want to pull billions at the Box-Office, be known as an pop-culture icon, and sell more than several A-listers combined on a monthly basis? Colored me suprised.

As for insecurities and all that jazz, I can couldn't care less about. It's just funny how after one decent show, that Daredevil fans (not talking about you in particular) think that they can one up a character with classics in virtually every single medium of fiction.

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TylerDurden7272

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@testament:

I never stated popularity dictated how good stories were, it can however dictate how much work a company puts into it. DareDevil has had some good stories. Just not more than Batman. None of the people you listed have. ( Take this with a grain of salt as I'm not into most of those characters and only know about them from a friend, the most I may know out of them are Swamp thing and Constantine)

The topic is too subjective though. What you or I might consider "great", someone else might consider "crap". I loved HUSH and I know others who hated it. Daredevil has also had some of the greatest runs in comic history, no matter how famous they may be. Constantine has had a steady list of awesome writers ever since his initial run in 1988. It's extremely hard to find a bad Constantine story and that's really saying something. Mike Carry's Lucifer Morningstar is one of the greatest comic book runs period. It's a 75 issue masterpiece.

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algorhythm511

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It should be obvious that Daredevil is NOT a Batman ripoff, before this was ever posted. A blind Lawyer from Hell's Kitchen there is not too much in common there.

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_Mongul

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@testament: Quality of stories really isn't subjective.

If I publish a comic book that has a single panel of a man saying the word "toaster" over and over again, it's still an awful conic even if many people buy it

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deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3

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@_mongul: that sounds like an awesome comic

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Saren

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@saren:

I actually wasn't referring to Miller's Batman being based on Miller's Daredevil. I was saying that Miller's take on Daredevil a character who was barely selling, skyrocketed into success and for a time became one of Marvel's best selling characters. Batman was noir but not "dark". And it was like this for a while. When DC took notice of Miller's stellar run on Daredevil, it allowed DC to pick him up and write Batman. Miller also started writing Batman before Alan Moore IIRC.

My point is that had it not been for Frank Miller's success with Daredevil, Batman would not have had Miller writing him.

I would like to concede and apologize for my example of Born Again and Knightfall. I was using the same logic that the fanboys were using. Born Again is my favorite story of all time, so I apologize for the crude comparison.

And Brubaker definitely wrote The Devil In Cell Block D

I'm not sure how Batman wasn't ever "dark" during that period. O'Neil was the one who shifted the interpretation of the Joker from the playful jester that he was to a dangerous, murderous madman. Gerry Conway wrote several stories about Batman going through all manners of psychological agony; in fact, one of his stories with Hugo Strange was influential enough that Doug Moench brought the character back for Prey. Most of the current representations of Gotham as a hopeless place, culminating in Scott Snyder having characters say Gotham is literally sat right above Hell and has evil built into its brick and mortar, stem from stories that O'Neil and Adams created during the 70's. When Neil Gaiman arrived at DC in the 80's, one of the first stories he wrote was a Secret Origins issue where the Riddler expresses a sort of meta-fictional shock and horror over how much Gotham has changed over the years ("The Joker's killing people, for god's sake!"). All of that started in the 70's. If anything, Batman was not really noir for most of the time, because even when O'Neil wrote dark stories they tended to be in the adventure genre.

And someone else would have done it. It wouldn't have stopped DC from doing the story, and they had fresh new faces like Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman and Peter Milligan on the payroll at the time, not including the existing faces like Mike Grell. Miller's Daredevil and its reception may have given him the credibility to write Batman, but the story would have been dark with him or without him because that's what DC wanted at the time. That's how we wound up with Watchmen, Shade, The Sandman, The Killing Joke, The Longbow Hunters, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth and all the other stories in that vein during that time. Miller was writing Batman before Alan Moore, but it was Moore's Swamp Thing that inspired the British Invasion.

Had it not been for Dan Jurgens' success with Superman, Thor would not have had Jurgens writing him. That may have changed elements of subsequent stories, but it likely wouldn't have changed the tone and themes that Tom Brevoort wanted when he was hunting for a Thor writer. I have yet to encounter a Superman fan who believes Thor owes Superman some kind of debt for that.

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Saren

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...insecurity isn't all about lacking desirable traits. Having them and valuing them too highly can be just as toxic.

It can also be literally the opposite of what "insecurity" means. Hubris is not the same thing.

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StormShadow_X

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@testament:

I think you're completely missing what I'm saying.