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#1 Edited by the_wspanialy (1886 posts) - - Show Bio

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Scenario 1:

If possible replace concrete members of the Fellowship with ASoIaF/GoT characters who are tematicaly similar to them.

Members:

  • Ringbearer - replacement for Frodo, strong willed character who could resist power of the Ring for extended period of time.
  • Sage - replacement for Gandalf, knowledgable and wise.
  • Leader - replacement for Aragorn, charismatic, noble-born warrior with leadership skills.
  • Fabulous One - replacement for Legolas, the best looking member of a team... and sometimes provides support in combat.
  • Drunk - replacement for Gimli, someone who is content as long as he either fights or drinks.
  • Fatty - replacement for Sam, someone handling logistical support.
  • Two Drugg Addicts - replacements for Merry and Pippin, comic reliefs.
  • Dead Man - replacement for Boromir, someone whose purpose is to die, you know who to put here ;)

Scenario 2:

Let your imagination run wild and create the team with interesting interactions beetwen characters in mind.

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#3 Posted by foxerdes (6800 posts) - - Show Bio

Dibs on Hagrid.

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#4 Posted by lubub55 (8626 posts) - - Show Bio

Ringbearer - replacement for Frodo, strong willed character who could resist power of the Ring for extended period of time.

Barristan Selmy.

Sage - replacement for Gandalf, knowledgable and wise.

Varys.

Leader - replacement for Aragorn, charismatic, noble-born warrior with leadership skills.

Ned Stark.

Faboulus One - replacement for Legolas, the best looking member of a team... and sometimes provides support in combat.

Ygritte.

Drunk - replacement for Gimli, someone who is content as long as he either fights or drinks.

Oberyn Martell.*

Fatty - replacement for Sam, someone handling logistical support.

Sam.

Two Drugg Addicts - replacements for Merry and Pippin, comic reliefs.

Sandor Clegane and Bronn.*

Dead Man - replacement for Boromir, someone whose purpose is to die, you know who to put here ;)

Jaime Lannister.

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#5 Edited by Xerolot (2785 posts) - - Show Bio

No human can resist the ring for that long. That's why Gandalf picked a hobbit. Also you can't replace Gandalf due to his special, rare knowledge. Any team from GoT will fail in middle of the journey

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#6 Posted by MrAugen (596 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot said:

No human can resist the ring for that long. That's why Gandalf picked a hobbit. Also you can't replace Gandalf due to his special, rare knowledge. Any team from GoT will fail in middle of the journey

Could I have Leaf bear the ring then?

If it had to be human perhaps Patchface could resist.

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#7 Edited by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

Fellowship:

  • Davos Seaworth - Ringbearer
  • Brienne of Tarth - Ringbearer's protector, can hold the ring for short periods if need be.
  • Jon Snow w/Longclaw and Ghost - Leader and Ranger, the Rightful King
  • Marwyn the Mage w/Valyrian Steel Rod - Guide (we'd have to assume he has the same esoteric knowledge of Middle-Earth that he has of the WoIaF)
  • Sandor Clegane w/Heartsbane - Warrior/Tank
  • Sarella Sand w/Goldenwood bow and weirwood arrows - Archer
  • Meera Reed w/Dark Sister - Huntress
  • Wun Wun - Powerhouse, needed to hold the Balrog off, will obviously die in the endeavour
@xerolot said:

No human can resist the ring for that long. That's why Gandalf picked a hobbit. Also you can't replace Gandalf due to his special, rare knowledge. Any team from GoT will fail in middle of the journey

Tolkien wrote in his letters that Hobbits are a branch of humanity. It's true that Gandalf saw in Hobbits a particular sort of character that is the antithesis to what Sauron represents, but those qualities are in no way unique to them. Frodo is kind and earthy, simple, unambitious... not interested in personal power for any purpose, even for good as that too can be corrupted. The Hobbits aren't blessed with any kind of special resistance towards the Ring. Faramir was unaffected for the brief moment he held it, and that spoke to his nature as well; Boromir fought for glory as much as he fought for Gondor, he revelled in war. Faramir fought only to protect his home and was not warrior-like in temperament.

Davos is the character I think would have the best shot at getting to Mount Doom.

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#8 Edited by Xerolot (2785 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: It was stated that everyone can fall under the ring controll. The willpower gives only some time. Even Gandalf was too scared to take the ring. Frodo is just pure good. That's why they can resist it for so long time. Boromir a noble, good knight wasn't even wearing the Ring during their journey and the Ring still managed to corrupt him. Barristan with all my respect to him (fav character) is simple human like Boromir. He will resist it but in middle of the journey (in Misty Mountains or in Lothlorien) the evil will corrupt him.

Also I need to mention that without Gandalf knowledge they can't pass Misty Mountains. The Fellowship of the Ring couldn't pass Caradhras and the "new" Fellowship doesn't know where Moria is and they don't know any Middle-Earth language.

@rogueshadow Read this post and tell me what you think

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#9 Posted by MrAugen (596 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot said:

@mraugen: It was stated that everyone can fall under the ring controll. The willpower gives only some time. Even Gandalf was too scared to take the ring. Hobbits as creatures and especially Frodo are pure good. That's why they can resist it for so long time. Boromir a noble, good knight wasn't even wearing the Ring during their journey and the Ring still managed to corrupt him. Barristan with all my respect to him (fav character) is simple human like Boromir. He will resist it but in middle of the journey (in Misty Mountains or in Lothlorien) the evil will corrupt him.

Also I need to mention that without Gandalf knowledge they can't pass Misty Mountains. The Fellowship of the Ring couldn't pass Caradhras and the "new" Fellowship doesn't know where Moria is and they don't know any Middle-Earth language.

How do we know how it would work on non Tolkien based species? We're crossing universes here so I think its worth a discussion how "children" or "woh dak nag gram" would handle the seduction. If Hobbits can, why wouldn't they?

If I can pick any character can I have Daenerys riding with Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion?

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#10 Posted by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

@xerolot said:

@mraugen: It was stated that everyone can fall under the ring controll. The willpower gives only some time. Even Gandalf was too scared to take the ring. Hobbits as creatures and especially Frodo are pure good. That's why they can resist it for so long time. Boromir a noble, good knight wasn't even wearing the Ring during their journey and the Ring still managed to corrupt him. Barristan with all my respect to him (fav character) is simple human like Boromir. He will resist it but in middle of the journey (in Misty Mountains or in Lothlorien) the evil will corrupt him.

Also I need to mention that without Gandalf knowledge they can't pass Misty Mountains. The Fellowship of the Ring couldn't pass Caradhras and the "new" Fellowship doesn't know where Moria is and they don't know any Middle-Earth language.

@rogueshadow Read this post and tell me what you think

It's not about being pure good, it's more complex than that. Gandalf is a devout servant of Eru, as good as a Hobbit in his way, but feared to use it because he seeks power, the power to do good. But the ring cannot be used for good, it is by its nature, evil, inherently malicious and would corrupt the user until he or she were essentially a dark lord/lady anyway.

Barristan would eventually be held under the sway of the ring (as would anybody of lesser stature I might add, including a Hobbit), but he would show more restraint than Boromir I think. As would Aragorn.

Davos is a different sort than them. He only does anything out of a sense of loyalty to Stannis for raising him up... and he is only so thankful being raised up because it will give his children a better lives, not his own ambition/standing.

His true motive in the series is to get Stannis on the throne (not for any glory or power) and then go home to his wife and children, just as Frodo longs for the shire. If anybody can do it, it's Davos.

I think that we have to assume that the guide figure has equal knowledge of Middle-Earth history, geography, sorcery etc. as he does of TWoIaF or the thread is moot.

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#11 Edited by Xerolot (2785 posts) - - Show Bio

@mraugen: The race doesn't give you ability to resist it. It was my mistake which I edited. It depends on the character, only someone who's pure good and is not interested in any kind of power can resist it for enough time.

@rogueshadow Yeah I edited that Hobbits are not pure good but Frodo is. Davos seems to be good pick. Sandor is not. I can see him leaving the Fellowship or being the guy who causes trouble in group. Also I believe that Sandor can be corrupted. Can they beat the Nazguls on the Weathertop? Without knowing their weakness to fire?

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#13 Posted by theCrazyBean (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't matter your choices, any combination of GOT characters die when they face the Balrog

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#14 Edited by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerolot said:

@mraugen: The race doesn't give you ability to resist it. It was my mistake which I edited. It depends on the character, only someone who's pure good and is not interested in any kind of power can resist it for enough time.

@rogueshadow Yeah I edited that Hobbits are not pure good but Frodo is. Davos seems to be good pick. Sandor is not. I can see him leaving the Fellowship or being the guy who causes trouble in group. Also I believe that Sandor can be corrupted. Can they beat the Nazguls on the Weathertop? Without knowing their weakness to fire?

I don't think Sandor would be corrupted without actually having to carry the ring. Funnily enough Sandor might prove especially resilient to the draws of the ring post "death". As the gravedigger, even revenge against his brother seems to have been quelled, he's very... earthy, and does good deeds (saving Sansa, protecting Arya) purely because they are good, expecting no reward.

Well like I said we have to assume that the guide figure is well versed in Middle-Earth lore, Marwyn's knowledge of Planetos is exceptional and he is tough as nails, he's been all over the world, even to the far East. There are a million ways they fail if we assume they don't know about Middle-Earth.

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#15 Edited by Cregan_Stark (4784 posts) - - Show Bio

Ring bearer - Davos

Sage - Maester Marwyn

Leader - Jon Snow

Fabulous one - Sarella (stole some from Rogue)

Drunk - Sandor

Fatty - Samwell

Two Drugg Addicts (comic relief) - Bronn and Tyrion

Dead Man - Jory Cassel

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#16 Posted by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't matter your choices, any combination of GOT characters die when they face the Balrog

Wun Wun can hold it off and let them escape. Probably knock it off the walkway but he'll die in the attempt. I'm talking book versions here, the movie Balrog looked enormous, twice the size they are in the books (12 feet tall). So yeah I agree if you mean film versions.

@mraugen said:

If I can pick any character can I have Daenerys riding with Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion?

If you're gonna go that route, just go with Aegon/Visenya/Rhaenys and their dragons, lol.

Go hard or go home.

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#17 Edited by theCrazyBean (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I thought this was composite versions because of the pictures. And book Durins Bane would one shot Wun wun, I mean, if Wun Wun gents close to Alduin's Bane he will get turned into ashes because of Balrog's magic fire. Average Balrogs move faster than sound (book versions).

Either Book or movie version (or even worse, composite version) Durins Bane would Godstomp Wun Wun and all of GoT characters.

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#18 Posted by MrAugen (596 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: Ha! I thought we were limited to the era of depicted within A Song of Ice and Fire. If I can go back and cherry pick then make this pretty easy.

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#19 Posted by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I thought this was composite versions because of the pictures. And book Durins Bane would one shot Wun wun, I mean, if Wun Wun gents close to Alduin's Bane he will get turned into ashes because of Balrog's magic fire. Average Balrogs move faster than sound (book versions).

Either Book or movie version (or even worse, composite version) Durins Bane would Godstomp Wun Wun and all of GoT characters.

For a start you're talking about travel speed, not combat speed, and the time it took them to travel to Morgoth was never given, people falsely assume they moved at these speeds when there is no indication of that being the case:

"Deep in forgotten places that cry was heard. Far beneath the ruined halls of Angband, in vaults to which the Valar in the haste of their assault had not descended, Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord; and now swiftly they arose, and passing over Hithlum they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire."

Wun Wun is bigger than Durin's Bane, his blows are so strong that can literally make the ground shake. All he needs to do is keep a hold of him and drive him into the abyss/give the crew time to get out of the Mines of Moria.

The Balrog being wreathed in flames is definitely a huge issue, though there fire can be quenched by water. Wun Wun is not surviving the battle.

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#20 Edited by theCrazyBean (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: What version are we using? Book versions?

And yeah, I was talking about Travel speed, even if GoT fellowship runs he will catch them eventually.

How is Wun Wun holding Durin's Bane? He can't touch him, and he is unarmed. In the other hand Durins Bane can:

- Touch Wun Wun and one shot him

- Use his sword and one shot him

- Use his lasso and one shot him.

And you are assuming GoT characters are going know what Durin's Bane is and are going to scape, are going to take the same Path the fellowship of the ring took, and Wun Wun will try to stop Durin's Bane in the exact same spot Gandalf did, not later of before.

And even if we assume all that happens, Wun Wun is still dying fast.

And another thing, why are you saying Wun Wun is bigger than Durin's Bane? An average Balrog "is 3 times taller than a grow man". Wun Wun is "at least 14 ft tall", With an average of 1,7 Mt 3 men height would be of 16,73 ft.

16,73 > 14. An average Balrog is taller than Wun Wun, and Durin's Bane is above the average Balrog.

Durin's Bane is taller than Wun Wun, has weapons, has magic fire that would turn Wun Wun into ashes, a magic sword and a magic Lasso. Durin's Bane Will kill Wun Wun in like 2 seconds

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#21 Posted by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecrazybean:

@rogueshadow: What version are we using? Book versions?

And yeah, I was talking about Travel speed, even if GoT fellowship runs he will catch them eventually.

How is Wun Wun holding Durin's Bane? He can't touch him, and he is unarmed. In the other hand Durins Bane can:

- Touch Wun Wun and one shot him

- Use his sword and one shot him

- Use his lasso and one shot him.

And you are assuming GoT characters are going know what Durin's Bane is and are going to scape, are going to take the same Path the fellowship of the ring took, and Wun Wun will try to stop Durin's Bane in the exact same spot Gandalf did, not later of before.

And even if we assume all that happens, Wun Wun is still dying fast.

And another thing, why are you saying Wun Wun is bigger than Durin's Bane? An average Balrog "is 3 times taller than a grow man". Wun Wun is "at least 14 ft tall", With an average of 1,7 Mt 3 men height would be of 16,73 ft.

16,73 > 14. An average Balrog is taller than Wun Wun, and Durin's Bane is above the average Balrog.

Durin's Bane is taller than Wun Wun, has weapons, has magic fire that would turn Wun Wun into ashes, a magic sword and a magic Lasso. Durin's Bane Will kill Wun Wun in like 2 seconds

  • I've established that the speeds you speak of do not exist. No time-frame is ever given as to how long it took the Balrogs to save Morgoth from Ungoliant's torment.
  • I'm talking books.
  • Wun Wun actually wields a tree trunk for a club. Logically he would have a steel one and possibly even armour crafted for him in a scenario such as this.
  • I've already said we have to assume they have the same level of knowledge, or this entire thread is pointless. If they have no clue what they're doing then obviously they're screwed.
  • All Wun Wun has to do is tackle him off into the abyss and the waters below. It's completely doable. Will he burn, will he get slashed and whipped, will he yell in pain and die and get gutted as they fall. Yes. But he can still get the Balrog off the edge and that's all he needs to do to let the rest escape. Maybe he won't and they die; but the same could be said for Gandalf vs Balrog, Gandalf's loss was as likely as his victory.
  • A Balrog is stated to be twice the height of Men; around 12 feet. Not sure where you're getting the three times the height from.
  • Nowhere has the fire of Balrogs been shown to be able to burn so hot as to turn a giant into ashes on contact. On both occasions they have been in water, the flames were quenched.
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#22 Edited by theCrazyBean (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

- Am armour won't help Wun Wun against Durin's Bane sword

- "I've already said we have to assume they have the same level of knowledge, or this entire thread is pointless"

Of course, the same knowledge Aragorn or Legolas had maybe, but not Gandalf's, and Gandalf was the one who told everyone what to do. Not even Aragorn or Legolas knew what they were facing.

- "A Balrog is stated to be twice the height of Men; around 12 feet. Not sure where you're getting the three times the height from."

I just re read The book of lost tales, an average Balrog is two times bigger than Glorfindel. Glorfindel is described as a very tall elf, I read he was around 6,4 ft. So an average Balrog would be the double of that so approximately 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane is above the average Balrog but let's suppose he is also 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane and Wun Wun height is similar, so I see no reason why Wun Wun would overpower the Balrog as easily as you are making it seem.

- You are forgetting that the only reason Gandalf survived Durin's Bane sword attack was because of his magic, Wun Wun will get cut in half since he lacks that kind of defense.

But let's not go that far and let's make things easier. Wun Wun will die in the scene the stairs started falling down (where everybody had to jump) since he can't make that jump. So Wun Wun won't even have the chance to face the Balrog :D

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#23 Edited by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecrazybean said:

@rogueshadow:

- Am armour won't help Wun Wun against Durin's Bane sword

- "I've already said we have to assume they have the same level of knowledge, or this entire thread is pointless"

Of course, the same knowledge Aragorn or Legolas had maybe, but not Gandalf's, and Gandalf was the one who told everyone what to do. Not even Aragorn or Legolas knew what they were facing.

- "A Balrog is stated to be twice the height of Men; around 12 feet. Not sure where you're getting the three times the height from."

I just re read The book of lost tales, an average Balrog is two times bigger than Glorfindel. Glorfindel is described as a very tall elf, I read he was around 6,4 ft. So an average Balrog would be the double of that so approximately 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane is above the average Balrog but let's suppose he is also 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane and Wun Wun height is similar, so I see no reason why Wun Wun would overpower the Balrog as easily as you are making it seem.

- You are forgetting that the only reason Gandalf survived Durin's Bane sword attack was because of his magic, Wun Wun will get cut in half since he lacks that kind of defense.

But let's not go that far and let's make things easier. Wun Wun will die in the scene the stairs stars to fall down (where everybody had to jump) since he can't make that jump. So Wun Wun won't even have the chance to face the Balrog :D

  • What feats or statements does DB's sword have to indicate this would be the case?
  • Which is why I included Marwyn, an Archmaester, he's journeyed all over the known world and is well versed in magic, being known as Marwyn the Mage and having forged a Valyrian steel chain, meaning he has studied the "Higher Mysteries". He was the first since the Doom to get the glass candles of Valyria (similar to Palantirs) working etc. He'd be the guide.
  • When I said twice the height of Men, I was referring to the Numenoreans, average height of 6'4", putting it at around 12 feet tall is fair. No matter what he's over a foot shorter than Wun Wun, who is built more like gorilla than Man, able to wrench apart thick steel bars, make the earth shudder with his blows etc.
  • What puts Durin's Bane above the average Balrog? You they were relatively few... Durin's Bane wasn't a unique Balrog.
  • The whole magic shield vs flaming sword is an invention of the films. He just smites the bridge in the books and they have a face-off.
  • The stairs falling down is actually an invention of the films.
  • I'm not saying Wun Wun can defeat a Balrog, I'm saying he can, maybe, get him over the edge, and that's all he needs to do to let the Fellowship escape.
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#24 Edited by theCrazyBean (1562 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecrazybean said:

@rogueshadow:

- Am armour won't help Wun Wun against Durin's Bane sword

- "I've already said we have to assume they have the same level of knowledge, or this entire thread is pointless"

Of course, the same knowledge Aragorn or Legolas had maybe, but not Gandalf's, and Gandalf was the one who told everyone what to do. Not even Aragorn or Legolas knew what they were facing.

- "A Balrog is stated to be twice the height of Men; around 12 feet. Not sure where you're getting the three times the height from."

I just re read The book of lost tales, an average Balrog is two times bigger than Glorfindel. Glorfindel is described as a very tall elf, I read he was around 6,4 ft. So an average Balrog would be the double of that so approximately 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane is above the average Balrog but let's suppose he is also 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane and Wun Wun height is similar, so I see no reason why Wun Wun would overpower the Balrog as easily as you are making it seem.

- You are forgetting that the only reason Gandalf survived Durin's Bane sword attack was because of his magic, Wun Wun will get cut in half since he lacks that kind of defense.

But let's not go that far and let's make things easier. Wun Wun will die in the scene the stairs stars to fall down (where everybody had to jump) since he can't make that jump. So Wun Wun won't even have the chance to face the Balrog :D

  • What feats or statements does DB's sword have to indicate this would be the case?
  • Which is why I included Marwyn, an Archmaester, he's journeyed all over the known world and is well versed in magic, being known as Marwyn the Mage and having forged a Valyrian steel chain, meaning he has studied the "Higher Mysteries". He was the first since the Doom to get the glass candles of Valyria (similar to Palantirs) working etc. He'd be the guide.
  • When I said twice the height of Men, I was referring to the Numenoreans, average height of 6'4", putting it at around 12 feet tall is fair. No matter what he's over a foot shorter than Wun Wun, who is built more like gorilla than Man, able to wrench apart thick steel bars, make the earth shudder with his blows etc.
  • What puts Durin's Bane above the average Balrog? You they were relatively few... Durin's Bane wasn't a unique Balrog.
  • The whole magic shield vs flaming sword is an invention of the films. He just smites the bridge in the books and they have a face-off.
  • The stairs falling down is actually an invention of the films.
  • I'm not saying Wun Wun can defeat a Balrog, I'm saying he can, maybe, get him over the edge, and that's all he needs to do to let the Fellowship escape.
  • It's a flaming magical sword it should cut steel like butter, otherwise Dwarfs would beat DB pretty easily, unless you are saying Balrogs can't cut throug an armour...
  • Okay, fair enough
  • I just realizaed you are not OP. Why are you assuming this is only book version for LOTR? He used composite version for ASOIAF and a picture of Movie version for LOTR. Did he mentioned that this is only books somewhere? Okay, even assuming this is book versions, do you really think that Wun Wun first option will be to charge against a foe surrounded by flames and try to push him? And even if Wun Wun does that, a single strike from Durin's Bane sword will put him down. It's not like if DB will just stand there waiting to get pushed
  • Well it was one of the few Balrogs who survived Morgoth's defeat, plus average Balrogs were getting killed by elves in the first era, DB survived multiple hits from Glamdring and killed Gandalf (yeah, also dying, but DB killed a Maiar while average Balrogs got killed by elves during the first era.)
  • I was not talking about the magic shield of the movie, I was talking about Gandalf's sword Glamdring which is magical, created by the elves of Gondolin for king Turgon. That sword is magical and has runes that enhance its power, plus it also can be used by gandalf to cast spells, enhancing even more its power.
  • Okay, I forgot that
  • I'm not saying than it is impossible, maybe Wun Wun has a 3% of chances of do it, but it is very unlikely

Maybe he won't and they die; but the same could be said for Gandalf vs Balrog, Gandalf's loss was as likely as his victory.

Yeah, gandalf had 50/100, but Wun Wun has 0/100

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#25 Edited by rogueshadow (24396 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecrazybean said:
@rogueshadow said:
@thecrazybean said:

@rogueshadow:

- Am armour won't help Wun Wun against Durin's Bane sword

- "I've already said we have to assume they have the same level of knowledge, or this entire thread is pointless"

Of course, the same knowledge Aragorn or Legolas had maybe, but not Gandalf's, and Gandalf was the one who told everyone what to do. Not even Aragorn or Legolas knew what they were facing.

- "A Balrog is stated to be twice the height of Men; around 12 feet. Not sure where you're getting the three times the height from."

I just re read The book of lost tales, an average Balrog is two times bigger than Glorfindel. Glorfindel is described as a very tall elf, I read he was around 6,4 ft. So an average Balrog would be the double of that so approximately 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane is above the average Balrog but let's suppose he is also 13 ft tall. Durin's Bane and Wun Wun height is similar, so I see no reason why Wun Wun would overpower the Balrog as easily as you are making it seem.

- You are forgetting that the only reason Gandalf survived Durin's Bane sword attack was because of his magic, Wun Wun will get cut in half since he lacks that kind of defense.

But let's not go that far and let's make things easier. Wun Wun will die in the scene the stairs stars to fall down (where everybody had to jump) since he can't make that jump. So Wun Wun won't even have the chance to face the Balrog :D

  • What feats or statements does DB's sword have to indicate this would be the case?
  • Which is why I included Marwyn, an Archmaester, he's journeyed all over the known world and is well versed in magic, being known as Marwyn the Mage and having forged a Valyrian steel chain, meaning he has studied the "Higher Mysteries". He was the first since the Doom to get the glass candles of Valyria (similar to Palantirs) working etc. He'd be the guide.
  • When I said twice the height of Men, I was referring to the Numenoreans, average height of 6'4", putting it at around 12 feet tall is fair. No matter what he's over a foot shorter than Wun Wun, who is built more like gorilla than Man, able to wrench apart thick steel bars, make the earth shudder with his blows etc.
  • What puts Durin's Bane above the average Balrog? You they were relatively few... Durin's Bane wasn't a unique Balrog.
  • The whole magic shield vs flaming sword is an invention of the films. He just smites the bridge in the books and they have a face-off.
  • The stairs falling down is actually an invention of the films.
  • I'm not saying Wun Wun can defeat a Balrog, I'm saying he can, maybe, get him over the edge, and that's all he needs to do to let the Fellowship escape.
  • It's a flaming magical sword it should cut steel like butter, otherwise Dwarfs would beat DB pretty easily, unless you are saying Balrogs can't cut throug an armour...
  • Okay, fair enough
  • I just realizaed you are not OP. Why are you assuming this is only book version for LOTR? He used composite version for ASOIAF and a picture of Movie version for LOTR. Did he mentioned that this is only books somewhere? Okay, even assuming this is book versions, do you really think that Wun Wun first option will be to charge against a foe surrounded by flames and try to push him? And even if Wun Wun does that, a single strike from Durin's Bane sword will put him down. It's not like if DB will just stand there waiting to get pushed
  • Well it was one of the few Balrogs who survived Morgoth's defeat, plus average Balrogs were getting killed by elves in the first era, DB survived multiple hits from Glamdring and killed Gandalf (yeah, also dying, but DB killed a Maiar while average Balrogs got killed by elves during the first era.)
  • I was not talking about the magic shield of the movie, I was talking about Gandalf's sword Glamdring which is magical, created by the elves of Gondolin for king Turgon. That sword is magical and has runes that enhance its power, plus it also can be used by gandalf to cast spells, enhancing even more its power.
  • Okay, I forgot that
  • I'm not saying than it is impossible, maybe Wun Wun has a 3% of chances of do it, but it is very unlikely

Maybe he won't and they die; but the same could be said for Gandalf vs Balrog, Gandalf's loss was as likely as his victory.

Yeah, gandalf had 50/100, but Wun Wun has 0/100

  • Armour that could well be two inches of Elven steel... I'm not seeing why it would so easily.
  • I'm not assuming, it's my general M.O. to go with book versions of LotR/ASoIaF because I consider them the main canon and composite versions often doesn't work due to contradictions. And here it's the only way the thread works unless I just list off half a dozen Targs and their dragons which would be pretty pointless.
  • You seem to be holding to the idea that there were many, many Balrogs when that concept was disbanded early on, and in the end there were only a small number, according to Christopher Tolkien there were seven at most. We never see the Balrog get hurt by Glamdring. Gothmog was pierced by the spiked helm of Ecthelion.
  • And that sword isn't used to get the Balrog into the abyss of Moria, all that is done to accomplish that is destroying the bridge. The storm and battle that is summoned
  • I don't think so at all, near the edge of a great chasm, his size and strength and the will to do it, fourteen feet tall mound of muscle that can tear iron bars apart... all he needs to do is budge the Balrog by an inch and the two go tumbling over. In an open field do I think he would lose? Yes. Because I don't think Wun Wun can defeat Durin's Bane. But that's not what he has to do here here, they are stood on the edge of a bridge, if Wun Wun were to literally just dive on him and push I see little reason they don't fall over the edge.