ComicVine or Live-Action vine? The 'negative' impact of CBMs

Having been on this site for a long time, I've noticed that the Battles Forum is now mostly populated by threads pitting the Live Action versions of characters opposed to the comic.

Its no longer Superman vs Thor that generates endless debate, but "DCEU Justice League Superman vs Endgame fat Thor" or something along those lines. With the advent of the MCU, DCEU and CW, the majority of the forum is just centred on LA.

Make no mistake, LA debate is fun. I've debated my fair share of LA too, but it always took a back seat to the main comic continuinity versions of the character.

Personally, I think live action debates are inherently more...boring - the characters are limited in ways in which the medium of comics simply isn't. Thus the debates are a lot more bland and dry to read. I also think that live action debates are a lot less challenging...they're much more cut and dry which often leads to lazier forms of argument.

It isn't just the Battles forum populated with this, but this Gen Discussion forum too.

While the tone of this post thus far has been rather critical, I do rather some rather admire the passion that comicbook films can now inspire.

Do you think the popularity of live action characters is good or bad for the site, especially the Battles forum? Thoughts?

I mean, it gets more people on the site and stuff, plus LA characters are obvious easier to jump into, considering to be become a "expert" on them, all you need to do is watch a few clips, maybe a movie or two, and you can basically argue them pretty well with not a lot of time to put in and stuff. It's cool to see when it's played out well.

Most of the time it isn't through. Most LA debaters have no real idea on basic concepts, can't argue for toffee and usually stay well within their quite boring comfort zone.

Obviously I've debated LA at times, but the madding amount of threads that are all the SAME matchup bores me. I can't deal with the amount of threads that have the same characters over and over again. At least with comics, there's a lot of stuff to pull from and quite a lot you can get out of it, but you have to actually, you know, read the source material lol. There's a lot of people that honestly don't want to go through like 300 comics just to understand how Deathstroke fights, you know? I can understand that. Sympathise, even.

Fact is, LA material, like in real life, is more popular and attractive to the general audience because it's not as clunky as some of Thor or Hulk's stories over the years, or as inconsistent in quality like Iron Man or Captain America. The movies are simpler to understand and go through, and as a result, simply have a far greater reach. And they make much, much more money than the comic industry does these days, lol. Go check the current numbers selling and you understand how terrible they are doing.

Of course, I ain't about to go on some crazy rant like how Alan Morre did recently about how modern LA movies inspire some variant of the Übermensch found inNazism, but I will say that they aren't complex in comparison to most actually good comic stories, you know? It's not going to change anytime soon, but idc lol. I'm not on some stupid battle to defend comic matchups. I do my own thing and dip a toe into the other crap, which is more popular but far less impressive in quality. It does help the site with traffic, but in terms of actual quality, I mega doubt that

What's new?

100% agree. Comic battles are way more versatile and more interesting to debate imo. LA battles get very boring after awhile.

@professorrespect: Good points.

LA debates are tiresome because finding and posting feats is a damn chore. As is verifying them. So if a user tells you that character A did so and so, you have to take their word for it or watch the whole episode/movie. Or hunt for the clips and videos yourself. Unless they are considerate enough to post everything, context and all.

On the other hand, comic scans are very easy to come by. Personally, I find them much more fun to debate.

When it comes to dupe threads, clickbait, trolling or simple stupidity, I'd say both attract an equal amount of it.

"I'm superior to people who like live-action because I'm one of the master race actually read comics."

I'm just kidding.

LA is a much more readily available medium and it's easier to consume, so it's more popular. Can't be helped. Also, yes, comic based battles are better because they have a shit ton of feats as compared to LA.

The thing is more people watch movies than read comoc books. Comic books are not as popular as they once were. Mainly because they've been around forever and they same story without end can only be apealing for so long. Love action movies allow or imaginations to come to life and thats why their more popular. They are more exciting and endearing then a comicbook could ever be.

@marvelanddcfan24: I actually agree that CBMs are more exciting. That's largely because I love the medium of film more than other mediums.

However, I think in terms of debate, LA debates are much more dry and less engaging.

@frozen: thats because comics have like 80 years (exaggeration) of stories and feats while LA are very limited because the movies are a lot shorter in content and are limited as actors age and leave rolls or they get less screen time. Comics have an endless amount of hours and events. Botttom line LA is just a lot more limited.

There is no difference between comic debating and LA debating except for the fact that its easier to be an expert in LA characters because of their limited showings as compared to comic book characters.

An actual comicvine won't work at all because very few people still read comics.

If comics were still popular and people wanted to debate them then there would be a good number of comic battles on the front battles page. No one is interested in them anymore and times change with which things change. Some things which were initially meant to do one thing might now be doing something else and that's what is happening.

@rbt: There is a difference, I've debated in both. While LA debate can be fun, it's much more bland and less engaging compared to debating with comic characters. Usually the best CAVs/debates either involve comics, manga and/or animated characters.

@richubs: Good points. It's sad to see though, the decline of comics in the last decade.

Comic scans are easy to come by, but sometimes there's a lot of context that needs to be understood and information that requires looking at previous issues sometimes several issues. This is especially tedious when someone posts a scan where the wording doesn't really match what's going on, and you need to backtrack and find the issue yourself to determine the scale of the feat. Finding and posting LA feats are more tedious generally I agree, but I think comic book feats have a greater potential to be more tedious.

Or maybe I'm over exaggerating idk...

I'm generally not interested in live action vs battles because you can tell the creators didn't put much thought into power scaling at least not as much as comics or animation

Its just not fun doing battle threads anymore, its literally the same DCEU/MCU threads every single day and most of them have been done to death, some will change one minor rule like allowing JL Superman and IW Thor Fight at Mcdonalds or something.

Well, it's not like comic battles weren't stale back in the day because they most certainly were. I've been around for a decade so I should know. The same problems people have with live-action battles apply to CB battles too.

That's completely subjective IMO. I personally find LA debates a lot more fun because usually both party is aware of all or at the very least majority of the feats, so it makes for a more focused debating. As for CaVs, probably one of the greatest CaV posts I've ever read was from a LA/video game CaV.

I think the Live Action threads, particularly in the battle forums (and even in General Discussion), is a reflection of the paradigm shift comic characters have gone through over the past 10-15yrs. Those that were around and can remember, you only had comics to pull from when discussing Thor vs Superman, now cbm’s as a medium has surpassed physical comics in pop culture, so much so that there’s a whole demographic/section of fans that now know about about comic characters that had never even picked up a comicbook in their life. So it seems almost like a natural evolution that sites like this have evolved more into Live Action discussions, since cbm’s and TV series have eclipsed the source material.

Now if Live Action debates and discussions are more boring than the comic ones, is a bit subjective imo. Personally I enjoy both ...depending on the characters and/or topic. Like others have said it is easier to go watch and sift through a film or TV show to get information for whatever the thread is about versus having to sift decades of comics, even tho I may enjoy breaking into my dusty long and short boxes from time-to-time it can be a pain in the a$$ lol. ...anyways it’s all good as far as I’m concerned, just glad we got a place to geek out and sweat hard over stuff we love be it live or drawn

LA debaters are braindead

I absolutely agree . Comics are not getting as much appreciation as they should and used to . The film medium is also not as diverse , imaginative, or exciting as the comic medium.

The advent of battle forums on CBMs has also tarnished them as a whole . Some people now look at movies based on how accurate , not even personalities or character traits , power levels and how good feats there are for characters.

CBM's are obviously a lot more profitable than actual comics are nowadays. They're also more accessible and have wider appeal, which explains the explosive groundswell in their popularity over the years.

My problem with live action debates is precisely the amount of uncultured, unassimilated normies those conversations attract. People who don't understand the fundamental basics of debating fictional characters, and unabashedly wear their allegiances on their sleeve. Bias and "fanboyism" is so much more apparent between MCU and DCEU threads than it is with Marvel and DC comics now.

And most of the actual live action debaters are pretty terrible. They have horrid feat interpretation/analysis skills and no taste for consistency.

@higherpower: Good points.

@frozen: Aside from what's been said already live-action characters have far fewer appearances which in theory makes for better consistency. People are kinda starting to realize that debating Marvel and DC characters has always been extremely disingenuous because there's such huge differences in how different writers portray characters. They have way too many showings divided amongst way too many runs. So live-action appears better to some in contrast.

Thing is live action isn't really consistent anymore. There are a bunch of MCU writers and directors and the Russos in particular don't give a rat's ass about consistency. CW characters seem to get skill and power levels adjusted whenever it suits the plot. So this reason isn't even valid anymore.

Personally I find live-action debates end up being too shallow because there's so little to the characters worth discussing. Not that it's bad in and of itself but there are way too many threads for how much there actually is to discuss. I will say comic supporters are way too ironheaded about never changing their stance no matter what feats live action characters gain and I honestly think some people (myself included at one point) have been raising their standards of comic characters consciously or otherwise just to justify it. Granted the aforementioned Russo lack of consistency doesn't help the live action side.

Personally, I enjoy most comic matchups, on the other hand, street level fights are the only thing that appeals to me regarding LA.

@sy8000: Good points.

Admittedly I did the same thing with raising standards. I agree also, there are a lot of threads. Some of the scenarios do appear rather tired and repetitive.

Summed up my feelings more eloquently than I would have. I thought it was novel at first, but I legitimately rue the day live action threads started to really take off. It's so boring; the same match ups (with different "paint jobs"), the same arguments, the same people debating the same debates back and forth, getting into those nonsensical mires of calculations and statistics.

No lie, I groan inside whenever I see "MCU", "DCEU" or "CW" in the titles.

CBMS are just way more popular than comica and far easier to get into. You only need to watch a couppe movies as opposed to reading decades worth of stuff and figuring out what the consistent level of your comic character is.

It was inevitable thay LA would take over comic debating.

Boo hoo