Comic Book Piracy

What can you say about comic book piracy? What is your stand? What can you say about the people who does it? What can you tell them to stop such acts?

Some people can't get them in their local area so If that's the case I wouldn't tell them to stop because that's the only way they can get it.

If they can only get them online, then use Comixology.

I'm totally against it, people complain all the time about the cost of comics constantly going up. They're costing more because the market isn't all that big to begin with, and the more people that pirate means that less comics are being bought legally. Which means a smaller market so less people are employed in the industry, and so on.

We've all heard the warnings on DVDs so I won't bore you with the whole "not a victimless crime" rant.

All the reasons people use for piracy are just excuses "i can't afford them", "i want to try it out before I buy it", "i'm not interested in the series I'm just checking this issue out", etc, etc.

Try to apply them to anything else (for example a cup of coffee down the street) and see how they stack up...

Anyway, that just my take on it.

I torrent about 80% of the comics I read and don't even care. If these companies want me to buy their books then they need to drop their prices because I'm not to fond of wasting all my money on comic books.

The only titles on my physical pull list that I'll buy are titles from Image and series that I really love & want to help show my support for.

Naturally i would be against it. I hate to see the prices of comics rise due to loss in sale yet everyone is reading it?

@cave_duck: doesn't it discourage you to continue buying if a time comes that you bought a comic that made you think it was not worth the money?

Didn't the rise in comic book prices actually happen before comic book piracy was a thing? I remember comic books climbing to those high prices in the early 2000s. That's when we saw 4.99 for a regular title, and that price climb really started happening in the 90s. I don't remember comic book piracy really coming up until 2005. It seems to me piracy came out of higher prices and not the other way around.

Based on my experience with pirates, it actually helps the industry. Most of the pirates I know subscribe to the try and buy philosophy. You're interested in a book, you download an issue or two, if you like it you start buying it and if you don't like it you stop downloading it. The pirates I've talked to say this has increased the size of their pull lists (the things they actually buy) because it removes the risk from picking up new titles, which is something I get after the whole 52 new DC titles in one month. I know this is anecdotal, but if pirating 20 comics lead to you buying 15 a month, that's better for then industry then if you don't pirate anything and you only buy 14 a month. Obviously the user above contradicts this entirely.

I just buy them from Comixology...

Can't find any decent torrent websites anyway

Against it. Reviews and Previews exist for a reason, this whole try and buy nonsense is entitled nonsense. I also hate it when people pirate series they don't even like just because they can.

Pirating doesn't hurt sales because the person probably wouldn't have bought it to begin with had it not been for it being free and convenient. The whole piracy thing is kind of blown out of proportion. I will go to my grave not believing the whole "Ohhh 10,000 pirated comics, Ohhh no that is 10,000 sales lost" because it usually doesn't work like that.

Story time:

Lets say 12 year old Jimmy was surfing the internet and came across a pirated version of, ohhh, I don't know New-52 Superman #20 then he downloads it and reads it. Now lets examine that situation, the only reason why Jimmy pirated that Comic is because of convenience other wise if that Comic would have never been conveniently there Jimmy would have never been thinking about that Comic and therefore would of not of legally bought the Comic to begin so either way they didn't lose any money.

Lets say 12 year old Jimmy does like Comics but doesn't have the money to purchase them so he pirates them, again they didn't lose out on money since 12 year old Jimmy is broke and has no money to give to them to begin with.

People make the whole piracy thing out to be more than it actually is, piracy hurts like no one, piracy is basically another word for convenience "I happen to come across a free download of New-52 Superman #20 so hell why not download it and see what it's about, If I would of never have HAPPEN to come across it, it would of never been on my mind at all and therefor I still wouldn't have bought it to begin with, so again no one loses money"

So because they weren't going to buy it anyway, and no one gets hurt, Writers/artists should just bend over and take it?

Get a library card order a series you like if they don't have it on the shelf already, it's free and it's legal. As for the piracy, I dislike it.

If you can't buy it or obtain comics legally, then you don't deserve to enjoy them.

@ariesxmasters: That's like stealing a diamond and then saying "Well I didn't want the diamond but it was just to easy to steal, it's really your fault."

Pretty much since Comic is a profit based business, yes. No one got hurt since no sales were lost and studies show piracy doesn't hurt sales in fact they have been shown to promote which is why Game of Throne basically happily lets people torrent it.

That is a poor example, man, I don't get what you mean.

All you guys be talking about torrents and crap but i just read them all from a website.

That's *orifice* logic right there. ALso, I like how people quickly agree with thew few people who are okay with it but don't take the people who are against it into consideration (which is more likely a s**t ton more)

honestly not everyone can afford them so i can't say anything negative towards it.

No matter what way you try to look at it or justify it. It's stealing. All you're doing is hurting the people that work in the industry. But then again we live in a time where people have a "It doesn't hurt me so why should I care if what I do effects someone else" type of mentality.

I mean, hey everyone has different reasons for liking it, hating it, or considering it a non-factor. I consider it a non factor when it comes to profit. I just think people look for something to blame when sales are looking low and first thing they try to jump to is "Ohhh it's the pirates fault", I wonder if they have ever maybe thought that they need more originality and need to stop doing reboots and crappy prequels that no one wants to see. (I.e Spider 1, The amazing Spider-man, Robocop) And maybe they need to lower the price, cause the prices are to freakin' high (I.e I bought a Cavewoman issue for like 4 dollars+ including shipping an all that) that price is atrocious for a Comic, man, that is entirely to much money for one issue.

It just really annoys me when content creators try to look for other ways out, and try to point their failure at something/someone else "It's not my fault, it's not his fault, it's not your fault, it's gotta be the pirates fault". They don't take a second to think maybe they just lack originality, or as I said above the prices are to freakin' high.

Some comic writers support piracy. Including Neil Gaiman and Mark Waid.

I mean with some ranging around $4.99....Like I spent $10 just on two books. AntMan #2 and Snake Eyes: Agent of Cobra. It's a lot of money just for a few pages and adds.

^^

I love my physical copies of comics, have never downloaded them by paying or for free. But honestly comics are very expensive things and if I had a good torrent site I would download the majority of new comics I pick up. Personally if something is good I want to own it. So if I read any good titles I would go out and buy them but I really hate reading on screen.

@cave_duck

I'm totally against it, people complain all the time about the cost of comics constantly going up. They're costing more because the market isn't all that big to begin with, and the more people that pirate means that less comics are being bought legally. Which means a smaller market so less people are employed in the industry, and so on.

Actually, comics sales have grown since the movie and tv shows are becoming more popular. And the comics aren't really going up because people aren't buying. That would be counter productive and a terrible business idea. That would only lead more people to pirate comics since they are gettign too expensive.

Some of the most bought comics are Spider-Man adn Batman yet they cost the most. It especially hurts me since I buy both sides, plus other series. The Average Spider-Man comic is about 3-5 dollars. You know what that means? If you're collecting, you've just spend over 100 dollars on just 10 Issues. You still have to buy another 5 to be completely up to date since Amazing Spdier-Man is on issue 15 going in 16. That's absolutely preposterous. With 100 dollars you could have bought 40-45 comics compared to a measly 10. The higher the demand, the more money it cost. Econ 101.

I completely understand why people pirate copies of comics and I don't blame them. If I feel like it I do the same or I just share comics with my friends. For the most part I buy though.

Just thought I'd post the interview here:

That's the same with everything.

I've bought fridges I thought were wastes of money. Should I have stolen it instead?

Its part of being in a cash driven society, before you buy something you should try and research it to see if you'd like it. But there are also things that you either impulse buy and later regret, or that you decide just didn't suit you. As comics are a luxury item a lot less research tends to be done before we buy them, but its still a case of trying to get value for money.

As for all the others saying that its not affecting business' because "I wasn't going to buy it anyway". Think of your local comic shop, not a giant franchise monstrosity, a small-scale fan owned comic shop. By looking at, and deciding online, not to purchase your book that's one less person who walks in the door. It may not seem much to you, but ut it adds up.

The owner at the end of the day thinks about turnover and how many visitors and buyers they got each day. The lower that number is, the worse they think their business is doing. Even by just entering the store you may help out a small business. Other people see customers entering and leaving, then they may want to look at whats going on.

All this without even getting into actual monetary costs of digital theft...

As for the "not everyone can afford them", well then you don't buy them- end of story. I can't afford a flat screen TV, does that mean its ok for me to just take one? How about for a cup of coffee before I catch the bus? If I can't afford it, I don't get it- simple.

I'm fine with piracy, but if you pirate a comic, I don't think you should have any say in which direction this industry goes, or complain about it. Also, piracy ain't stealing, people need to stop acting like it is.

main cause of piracy is lacking ease of access at a fair price. that is why services like netflix, amazon prime, marvel unlimited are all very popular.

more piracy does not take away a dime from companies. these are not physical objects being stolen. they might as well be taking out a library book or borrowing from a friend. which then leads to more readers and potential customers.

also, all of the people complaining about piracy probably watch music videos, tv shows, or movies on youtube from unofficial channels. same exact thing as reading from unofficial sources.

you pirate, you lose your rights to have a say when the industry moves against it.

So because its not a physical object it can't be stolen?

As for the Library analogy, the Library purchased the book in the first place and then loans it to authorized lenders (ie. people with Library cards), also they've got approval to lend copyrighted material.

One of the problems I have with piracy is people complaining about publisher A or book Y closing down. When they've liked their stuff, but didn't get around to buying it, or it cost too much and I'm just a poor **** (insert title), or if they had've kept going I might have bought that.

There's always an excuse for pirating, but Digital theft is still theft.

@cave_duck: Piracy isn't theft, nothing is being stolen. It's like if someone stole your car, but your car was still there. Piracy is literally sharing; someone bought said product and decided to share it with other online users. Going by your logic, if you've ever borrowed a video game, comic, music, or anything else from someone, you're a pirate and killing the industry.

Also, while it is sad when companies go down to low sales, but pirates haven't taken a penny away from that company; they never stole anything. And hell, some content creators support pirating. Let's take Hotline Miami's developers as an example: Hotline Miami 2 was recently banned in Australia and the devs went out and were perfectly fine with pirating, because gamers in Australia literally can't get access to that game legally; they'd rather people pirate and enjoy there content than not play it at all; some people are just not able to access these forms of media, without pirating.

And again piracy is not theft; nothing is being stolen, only shared.

50/50 for me.

I usually buy my favourites online, but sometimes rarely I also buy physical copies for when they release a full volume if I thought it was genuinely awesome.

However I do torrent a fair bit when they scatter an event across 20 titles just to rake in the money. I am also a bit of a hypocrite so I do prefer torrenting when I dont especially like the way an ongoing series is moving (ie superior spiderman or current thor)...and sometimes I can be a complete ass and torrent a great run, although I generally try to buy it when it comes out in tome...eventually.

I do think comixology and unlimited are great alternatives, but a service like netflix would be better. I'd happily a £10-15 sub monthly to read as many digital comics as I wanted.

Comics are starting to embrace the digital media, but much more can be done to make it appealing for all budgets. Some are 3,5 bucks and its ONLY a digital copy that I got to access on THEIR website. I can afford a month of netflix with that.

It's really a case of convinience as with most things. Most people dont mind doing the right thing if the price and service are good. It's up to the suits and their lawyers if they want to decide between "hundreds of sales with a high 'price" or "thousands with a low price".

@beaconofstrength said:

@cave_duck: Piracy isn't theft, nothing is being stolen. It's like if someone stole your car, but your car was still there. Piracy is literally sharing; someone bought said product and decided to share it with other online users. Going by your logic, if you've ever borrowed a video game, comic, music, or anything else from someone, you're a pirate and killing the industry.

Also, while it is sad when companies go down to low sales, but pirates haven't taken a penny away from that company; they never stole anything. And hell, some content creators support pirating. Let's take Hotline Miami's developers as an example: Hotline Miami 2 was recently banned in Australia and the devs went out and were perfectly fine with pirating, because gamers in Australia literally can't get access to that game legally; they'd rather people pirate and enjoy there content than not play it at all; some people are just not able to access these forms of media, without pirating.

And again piracy is not theft; nothing is being stolen, only shared.

I'll believe all the whining when I stop seeing content creators themselves and people showing studies that it doesn't hurt or even may benefit the content creator, when those stop then I might believe half of the crap people are saying.

Thing is, I don't really have a problem with comic book piracy as long as people do buy/borrow as many comics as they download online. I don't think the majority of your material should come from bootlegging.

Depends on the mentality of the people torrenting the comics.

If I were to be a cheapskate and torrent every single comic I read, that would be wrong. But if I were to torrent a few issues and start buying the series, then it would be a lot more sensible.

Some people torrent a comic to read it, then buy the issue when it is available where they live.

Some people just torrent an issue to discover new things.

If use properly, then torrenting helps the industry.. A lot in fact.

Bout if people chose to be cheapskates about it, then it is nothing but harm.

Piracy is a good thing for industry.

@ariesxmasters:

I'll believe all the whining when I stop seeing content creators themselves and people showing studies that it doesn't hurt or even may benefit the content creator, when those stop then I might believe half of the crap people are saying.

You should be aware that just because the same bogus study was published on multiple articles does not mean it's true.

The actual answer on whether piracy hurts sales: almost certainly.

Yes you will have many people that wouldn't buy it but let's be realistic, if you have the option of paying or not paying many will take the latter and I've seen people give pretty weak reasons on justifying pirating on things I knew they would buy. There also the fact that getting these things for free means they will be less obliged to go get something else that they pay for.

I work close to 70 hours a week, so i just do not have the time to go to a comic shop, hence I torrent. That said, i try to make up for it by buying collections whenever I can

Isn't piracy the same as me lending my comic books to a friend and s/he doing the same thing for me? We both buy comics, not the same though. We shared with each other so I can read his/hers and s/he can read mine. I don't think it is logical to be a "digital" comic book collector. The purpose, for me, of buying digital comics is to read and enjoy comics not to collect.

lending your comic to someone aka sharing =/= getting your own copy of a comicbook for no cost aka piracy

You should be aware that just because the same bogus study was published on multiple articles does not mean it's true.

Show me some concrete evidence that piracy is hurting the industry, this I want to see.

The actual answer on whether piracy hurts sales: almost certainly.

Again I'm waiting for that evidence, because as you saw I posted above content creators themselves, and studies even show piracy benefit before they ever hurt anyone. The content creators who are complaining about piracy need to stop pointing fingers for their failure.

Yes you will have many people that wouldn't buy it but let's be realistic, if you have the option of paying or not paying many will take the latter and I've seen people give pretty weak reasons on justifying pirating on things I knew they would buy. There also the fact that getting these things for free means they will be less obliged to go get something else that they pay for.

Look you can make anything look as bad or as good as you want I'm just saying people blow this way out of proportion, specially when it has been shown it isn't hurting anyone. It seems like some people go out of there way just to be against something solely for being able to say their against it. It makes no sense, if it is said to have benefits, and not hurt anyone why are people still so staunchly against it? The answer just for the sake of being against it. There is no type of concrete evidence at all (besides people assuming) that piracy hurts anyone. Piracy is basically lending a book either way the person who it is being lent to is not paying for it, but still getting the content. You don't have to necessarily like piracy, but to say someone is stealing is just silly.

have you tried marvel unlimited? it is the same price of netflix($9.99/month) or half the price if you choose yearly($69) and provides every new marvel comic after 6 months. plus over 15 thousand back issues. i wish dc would do the same.

@kyrees: how can you say that? How is sharing a physical book different from sharing a digital comic book (from scanning a physical one)? Do you say libraries are illegal because the allow people to borrow books? There is a tendency of copying or scanning borrowed books from libraries. How illegal is that?

You have time to torrent it, you have time to buy it from Comixology.

As for all the others, I buy a comic then lend it to a friend- it starts with me Buying it in the first place and I can only loan it to one person at a time.

A large percentage of pirated products come from someone leaking it from a publisher, or cracking the security on a game, or other versions of theft. Then they "share" it to lets say 10 people, who then aren't limited to how many they can "share" it with. Lets keep going with the 10 "close friends" theory, it ends up in a lot more hands than the one copy I bought in the first place doesn't it?

Libraries need permission in the first place to loan books. There was a story months ago about some 12 yr old kid who started a "library" in his yard to encourage others with his love of books. The local authorities (council, or state- I can't remember) shut him down, because it was technically illegal. They acknowledged it was a jerk move, but had to do it.

(before we start with "half remembered internet stories aren't facts" one of the "proofs" in this thread was a screenshot of Google autocomplete telling us that "Piracy doesn't hurt")

Look I know I'm in the minority here in regards Piracy, but its what I believe to be the right thing. Just as a lot of others think its not hurting anyone. All I'm asking is just think about the small local comic shops that are struggling to stay afloat, that honestly need the business of even one more sale a week before you "borrow" a digital copy. I couldn't care less about the profit margin of UbiSoft, or DC or Image or Microsoft, its the tiny local retailers struggling to get by doing what they love that get caught up in "non-sales" from piracy that bother me.

But to each their own...

Its still illegal copying and scanning, its violating copyright laws. There's exceptions of course, but I'm no lawyer and I don't want to encourage any internet-lawyers out there. Suffice to say it illegal.

Libraries can only share one copy of a book at a time can't they? Whereas you can "share" your scan to hundreds at a time.

It may hurt the sales of small creator-owned books but, honestly those writers shouldn't be doing it for the money - they actually pour more money in than they're making - they're doing it because they want to tell a story, and if that story gets shared with more people then I'm sure most creators would be ecstatic that so many people liked it that they where willing to share with others.

Now as far as the big companies go, I think we all know that they really don't need the money. Bigger companies like Marvel, DC, Image, Dark Horse, etc. are able to pay their creators and continue to publish more comics despite piracy.

But that being said, weather the law makes sense or not, it's still illegal.

That's just my two cents.

@cave_duck: So i'm guessing you own a comic shop?

Do you download music, or movies, or games? If so, you're a hypocrite. If not, then sorry to say, but that is the way capitalism works. The strong survive, the weak die out. If comic shops can't innovate or expand, they will be shuttered. Comixology has done a good job though.

because sharing your copy isn't the same as copying the whole comic and redistributing that copy to everyone. you seem to be intermixing sharing with copying and redistributing to everyone

library do have accountability to what they share that's why your name and the library's name is on the library card on the book that you borrowed. if you are going to copy the whole book and redistribute to everyone, that's piracy.

No I don't own any form of business. But the comic store I frequent is owned by a massive comic fan as a labour of love. He used to work there and the previous manager was going to close the store because he was just scraping by. So he purchased it off the old owner so that the comic fans in my area had a place to actually buy comics.

There's no other store within at least a 2 hour drive, so I appreciate the fact there's still somewhere to get comics locally.

As for the next point- no I don't pirate anything, so I'm not a hypocrite- thanks for assuming though.

So if someone isn't making massive profits and is just barely getting by they should "die out" and let the strong take over?

Like I said at the start, there's nowhere else locally to buy comics here, and there isn't a large population to begin with, let alone comic fans. So my local store should just pack it in and go open an accountants office? or a grocery store? You have such a great theory on market dynamics- let me know how they can "innovate and expand" and I'll pass it on.