Clearing up your Batman V Superman problems

Avatar image for manofsteel11
ManOfSteel11

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

So many people have so many problems with Batman v Superman, and it's ridiculous. Most of the complaints can be explained away with a few sentences and some slightly deeper thinking. So I'm making this post to answer and correct any questions/ problems anyone might have about the movie.

Obviously the movie does have some problems (my biggest problem with the movie is that Superman didn't get to fight Doomsday fully powered alone. I thought his role in the fight was mostly trying to blitz and it just could have been better), like all movies do, so I won't be able to fix all the problems. But I love the movie so let me hear your questions/problems.

And if you have time, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKRmMQaLZz8

This guys' take on the movie is amazing, especially the Martha scene. IMO.

Avatar image for devilfruit
DevilFruit

362

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2  Edited By DevilFruit

"Clearing up your Batman V Superman problems"

Can't. Be. Done.

Avatar image for the_batmobile
The_Batmobile

427

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Batman wasn't Batman. He wasn't the world's greatest detective. He was easily manipulated by Lex, he based all of his desicions on emotion, and Lois Lane was a better detective than him. I don't have a problem with Batman killing occasionally, but in BvS he did it constantly and blatantly. I hope it's explained in the solo movie why he kills. That was my only big complaint. I thought the Martha scene was pretty genius.

Avatar image for jumpstart55
jumpstart55

11027

Forum Posts

268

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 14

#4  Edited By jumpstart55
  • lmao..People debate and dissect BVS like its some kind of high art or some all time great piece of art on the level of the Mona Lisa..
  • And don't get me wrong of course Art is subjective for the most part..But come on guys just give it a rest, its not that deep and its not that bad..Its somewhere in the middle realm of mediocrity..
Avatar image for manofsteel11
ManOfSteel11

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@the_batmobile: You're right, he wasn't the Batman we are familiar with. He wasn't really even called Batman in this universe yet, the call him the bat-man. There's a difference. He might have been the Batman you wanted him to be, but after a super-man comes to Earth he was probably like "holy crap, everything I've done has been for nothing if there is beings like this out there" so he kind of changed. The old black guy in the Ultimate Edition even says "There's a new mean in him". His world has been thrown off so maybe he's a little distracted. But in the video I linked in the header, the guy says that he does return to/ start being our Batman again after the Martha scene, and I think he's on to something. Not saying this is right but it's a good mix of perspectives I've heard.

And as far as Lois, she is a Pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter.

Avatar image for manchine
Manchine

6360

Forum Posts

7931

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

I can clear it up also.

IT WAS A HORRIBLE MOVIE!

Done.

Avatar image for mazahs117
MAZAHS117

20077

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

The Ultimate Edition took care of all my main issues

Avatar image for helloman
helloman

30115

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

The fact that people are still discussing it and discussing it this much means that it is a movie that gets you to think about things and that is one of the aspects of a great movie. All that matters is that I enjoyed and lots of others enjoyed it.

Avatar image for aberdeen
Aberdeen

1621

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

People still care about this?

Avatar image for manofsteel11
ManOfSteel11

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@helloman said:

The fact that people are still discussing it and discussing it this much means that it is a movie that gets you to think about things and that is one of the aspects of a great movie. All that matters is that I enjoyed and lots of others enjoyed it.

Avatar image for rogueshadow
rogueshadow

30017

Forum Posts

237

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 rogueshadow  Moderator

Can we all just let it go now? Either you liked it or you didn't, we don't need the same damn thread wrapped in a different skin every. single. week. Everything to be said about this film has been said 100 times over... and it never ends well. What's the point?

Avatar image for manofsteel11
ManOfSteel11

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Can we all just let it go now? Either you liked it or you didn't, we don't need the same damn thread wrapped in a different skin every. single. week. Everything to be said about this film has been said 100 times over... and it never ends well. What's the point?

I'm fine knowing that some people won't like this movie, but it's a little annoying when some peoples problems can be easily explained away.

Avatar image for funrush
Funrush

1486

Forum Posts

7151

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 2

"Clearing up your Batman V Superman problems"

Can't. Be. Done.

IMO, at best, this movie is just okay. At worst, it's a stain on the franchises, and a sign that WB already needs to reboot the DCU.

And this movie wasn't bad because it was dark. It was bad because it was dumb. Maybe just very poorly edited, if you want to be generous. The Dark Knight was dark, and it might be the best comic book movie made.

This video made me hate it slightly less. The analogy between the Zod Fight and the death of his parents was something I didn't think about thoroughly.

Avatar image for jasonhawke
jasonhawke

3240

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for lawz
Lawz

894

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for saintwildcard
SaintWildcard

22298

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 12

Hmmmm, I'm up for a good challenge. But be warned, I won't go easy on you. I was debating someone on Facebook, but he's a moron

Avatar image for saintwildcard
SaintWildcard

22298

Forum Posts

184

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 12

But before I do, please read this for context for my complaints

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/saintwildcard/blog/saint-reboots-batman-v-superman/128314/

Avatar image for manofsteel11
ManOfSteel11

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Hmmmm, I'm up for a good challenge. But be warned, I won't go easy on you. I was debating someone on Facebook, but he's a moron

Don't really want some crazy long debate, maybe just do bullet points and I'll try and get to them all. I might even agree with you on some.

Avatar image for jgames
Jgames

8886

Forum Posts

313

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 5

Who cares, this has already been done multiple time let it go. BvS UC was good enough no more need to defend and instead complain about other comic book related stuff.

Avatar image for wavemotioncannon
WaveMotionCannon

7676

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@manofsteel11: the movie was bad with high aspirations and the UC only made it slightly more palatable. Man of Steel and even Suicide Squad with all its flaws were better. Get over it.

Avatar image for mfundroid
Mfundroid

2917

Forum Posts

58

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By Mfundroid

@jasonhawke: @lawz: I would happily play that game of Bingo any day. You just wouldn't get bored :D

Avatar image for revan-
Revan-

7959

Forum Posts

109

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Here are my problems

  • The plot is just stupid.
  • Doomsday's face
  • Superman killing
  • Batman killing
  • Pee in a jar....just really?
  • Wants to be avengers so much.
  • WW shoved in
  • Superman dying despite the fact that we all know JLA is coming out so he can't be dead
  • Batman not being a genius. He had alfred build all his toys, had Luthor manipulate him easy
  • Batfleck has no neck
  • Batman using a voice changer
  • Jesse Eisenberg as Luthor
  • Really, really mediocre fight scenes
  • The attempts at comedy are really cringey
  • Too many plot arcs
  • Convoluted story
  • Ghost dad
  • "Martha...."
  • "What did you say?"
  • "Martha!"
  • "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!?!?!?!?!?"
  • only 5 mins of actual Batman v Superman
  • Doomsday being hurt by the kryptonite at all
  • Too much Jesus imagery
  • Luthor not being bald
  • The dialogue
  • Superman being super cliche: Either make him the classic superman who doesn't kill, or making a guy with a real personality
  • Too many dream sequences
  • And another dream sequence
  • Too much shadowing for other movies
  • Many, many more.

Definitely the worst superhero film i've seenin my lifeand I've seen Superman IV and Daredevil

Avatar image for uugieboogie
uugieboogie

13903

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for soaring
Soaring

666

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

The Ultimate Edition took care of all my main issues

Pretty much the same

Avatar image for manofsteel11
ManOfSteel11

320

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By ManOfSteel11

Here are my problems

  • The plot is just stupid.
  • Doomsday's face
  • Superman killing
  • Batman killing
  • Pee in a jar....just really?
  • Wants to be avengers so much.
  • WW shoved in
  • Superman dying despite the fact that we all know JLA is coming out so he can't be dead
  • Batman not being a genius. He had alfred build all his toys, had Luthor manipulate him easy
  • Batfleck has no neck
  • Batman using a voice changer
  • Jesse Eisenberg as Luthor
  • Really, really mediocre fight scenes
  • The attempts at comedy are really cringey
  • Too many plot arcs
  • Convoluted story
  • Ghost dad
  • "Martha...."
  • "What did you say?"
  • "Martha!"
  • "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!?!?!?!?!?"
  • only 5 mins of actual Batman v Superman
  • Doomsday being hurt by the kryptonite at all
  • Too much Jesus imagery
  • Luthor not being bald
  • The dialogue
  • Superman being super cliche: Either make him the classic superman who doesn't kill, or making a guy with a real personality
  • Too many dream sequences
  • And another dream sequence
  • Too much shadowing for other movies
  • Many, many more.

Definitely the worst superhero film i've seenin my lifeand I've seen Superman IV and Daredevil

  • Plot is pretty subjective, I thought it was good, you didn't. Civil war had a similar plot.
  • Yeah Doomsday could have looked more spiked
  • Didn't he only kill that one guy who was about to shoot Lois? Reeve Superman killed too. With a smile.
  • Batman's killing was different, but I thought it worked for this broken, world weary version of the character. I think it's what a real life Batman would actually do in this situation-which is the route the DCEU movies are taking.
  • It references back to her saying, "take a bucket of piss and call it tea, I won't drink it". It's kind of like him saying you should have listened. It's not used like a Disney poop joke so idk what you're upset about
  • I think it wants to make Avengers money, who wouldnt, but I don't think it's copying anything. It does have some not so subtle set up, but to the Justice League. I don't think having the trinity means it's trying to be Avengers.
  • A little, but she was useful IMO
  • He's not dead. I think people thinking he's dead and him "resurrecting" is going to play a huge part in the JL. Also, it's tough to have big problems with Superman around. Without him, it'll give some room for the other members to shine until he comes back.
  • I'm pretty sure they both build the toys. How smart do you want him to be? Lex is even smarter and it was a 2 year process for Lex to push him over.
  • Yeah I think his neck makes his head look too big in the costume
  • Voice changer is subjective. I think people would recognize his very famous Bruce Wayne voice otherwise. Unless you want the Bale growl
  • Subjective. His role as Lex was effective, but I understand why you didn't like him in it.
  • It's tough to make a live action Batman and Superman fight, yeah it was short but good IMO. The Doomsday fight could have been better with more 1v1 between him and a full powered Sups
  • They're not as cringy as "Meow Meow!" in Thor 2.
  • There are a few but it's really not hard to follow
  • Same as the first bullet point.
  • People ask their dead family members for advice all the time.
  • For the next four, watch the vid in my first post. Skip to the 70% mark where he talks about the Martha stuff and I think it'll change your mind. I don't want to type a huge paragraph
  • It would have been nice if it was longer but like I said, a Batman Superman fight isn't easy live action. Give Batman kryptonite and it's over quick like in the movie, don't give him kryptonite and Superman ends it quick.
  • Why wouldnt he be hurt by kryptonite? He's made from Zod in the movie so of course it affects him.
  • He's Superman. There will always be Jesus imagery because his story is basically the same as His. And if a super-man really came to Earth, do you really think he wouldnt be worshiped by some and feared/hated by others?
  • He's bald at the end. It's a process. This was literally the 2nd movie, there's going to be a lot more where he's now bald.
  • Not sure what your problem with the dialogue is. Never heard that one.
  • How is a new take on the character cliche? And like I said, even Reeve killed. Also it's tough to make a commentary on how a super-man and a bat-man character would be in the world today if you restrict them to such a, well, restricting rule. And it's not like they're just going around killing randoms.
  • yeah their was a lot. But the just-Bruce ones lay the ground work for the Martha scene, and the injustice one maybe sets up something awesome in the future even if it went over most peoples heads.

If you wanted longer answers to some of these, you should have done one at a time maybe. I really don't understand why people don't like the plot though. What's a specific thing you don't like?

Batman fears what Superman can potentially do, Lex hates him and wants the world to hate him so he sets up death where ever Superman goes when he can, Lois catches on and wants to expose this. Superman doesn't like Batman's tactics or the fact that his branded victims get killed, which is thanks to Lex. He's also discouraged because even though he's helping people, they still don't like him. (kind of like in civil war, they saved the world multiple times but people only see the casualties.) Lex is a super genius and knows the IDs of Bats and Sups and figures he can get the Bat to take out the God, but if he can't, he comes up with a contingency which becomes creating a kryptonian monster after he learns about it from the ship. Wonder woman is mainly set up, but she has a role with the Batman stuff.

Avatar image for revan-
Revan-

7959

Forum Posts

109

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

  • Plot is pretty subjective, I thought it was good, you didn't. Civil war had a similar plot.
  • Civil War's plot was much, much different. In civil war you saw friends being torn apart, people that you've grown to care about and known for 8 years. And regardless if you liked it or not the mass majority of people did not.
  • Yeah Doomsday could have looked more spiked
  • Didn't he only kill that one guy who was about to shoot Lois? Reeve Superman killed too. With a smile.
  • I don't see how that's relevant. This is BvS not Superman II.
  • Batman's killing was different, but I thought it worked for this broken, world weary version of the character. I think it's what a real life Batman would actually do in this situation-which is the route the DCEU movies are taking.
  • Staying true to the source material> Anything that DCEU ever does. I don't give a shit what they want. It's about staying true to the source. And in batman's words "If we kill how are we any better than them."
  • It references back to her saying, "take a bucket of piss and call it tea, I won't drink it". It's kind of like him saying you should have listened. It's not used like a Disney poop joke so idk what you're upset about
  • I listened. It doesn't change how stupid it is. And what relevance does disney hold to BvS?
  • I think it wants to make Avengers money, who wouldnt, but I don't think it's copying anything. It does have some not so subtle set up, but to the Justice League. I don't think having the trinity means it's trying to be Avengers.
  • They're trying too hard to be Marvel. Instead of having multiple movies setting up the story they shoved it in so they could try to make more money
  • A little, but she was useful IMO
  • Okay..
  • He's not dead. I think people thinking he's dead and him "resurrecting" is going to play a huge part in the JL. Also, it's tough to have big problems with Superman around. Without him, it'll give some room for the other members to shine until he comes back.
  • Or like a good story they could have him found the JLA. And they could solve that "Shine" problem by stop trying to catch up to marvel and make standalone movies
  • I'm pretty sure they both build the toys. How smart do you want him to be? Lex is even smarter and it was a 2 year process for Lex to push him over.
  • I want him to be the genius he was in the comics and bruce was never shown building anything.
  • Yeah I think his neck makes his head look too big in the costume
  • Voice changer is subjective. I think people would recognize his very famous Bruce Wayne voice otherwise. Unless you want the Bale growl
  • Clark didn't know him despite living on earth his whole life. And I doubt if Warren Buffet dressed up in a costume and talked to you, you wouldn't know it was him.
  • Subjective. His role as Lex was effective, but I understand why you didn't like him in it.
  • It's tough to make a live action Batman and Superman fight, yeah it was short but good IMO. The Doomsday fight could have been better with more 1v1 between him and a full powered Supes
  • Give Batman better tech and have him use kryptonite as a last resort. It's not that hard
  • They're not as cringy as "Meow Meow!" in Thor 2.
  • 1. How does that serve any relevancy to what I said? 2. She said mjömjö. What Selvig called Mjolnir.
  • There are a few but it's really not hard to follow
  • The cast majority disagreed
  • Same as the first bullet point.
  • People ask their dead family members for advice all the time.
  • But not in a movie about a man in red and blue tights fighting a guy in a bat costume
  • For the next four, watch the vid in my first post. Skip to the 70% mark where he talks about the Martha stuff and I think it'll change your mind. I don't want to type a huge paragraph
  • I saw it. It was nothing but that guys nostalgiafest
  • It would have been nice if it was longer but like I said, a Batman Superman fight isn't easy live action. Give Batman kryptonite and it's over quick like in the movie, don't give him kryptonite and Superman ends it quick.
  • Why wouldnt he be hurt by kryptonite? He's made from Zod in the movie so of course it affects him.
  • Because it's an easy out. In the comics despite him being kryptonian It didn't work on him. It gave us a fight between superman and Doomsday through to the bitter end instead of some spear.
  • He's Superman. There will always be Jesus imagery because his story is basically the same as His. And if a super-man really came to Earth, do you really think he wouldnt be worshiped by some and feared/hated by others?
  • But he's not jesus. It's just stupid
  • He's bald at the end. It's a process. This was literally the 2nd movie, there's going to be a lot more where he's now bald.
  • Not the way those reviews look . I doubt the DCEU will get very far
  • Not sure what your problem with the dialogue is. Never heard that one.
  • ". The dialogue is horrendous — no one in this film just talks to each other. Instead, every single line is delivered as if it’s a moment of incredible weight and importance, with everyone glowering morosely at each other. It’s a banal, dull, joyless effort, with the two or three sad attempts at humor plummeting to their deaths amidst its relentless gloominess and undying awfulness"
  • How is a new take on the character cliche? And like I said, even Reeve killed. Also it's tough to make a commentary on how a super-man and a bat-man character would be in the world today if you restrict them to such a, well, restricting rule. And it's not like they're just going around killing randoms.
  • Because they're not outside the law. Its as simple as that
  • yeah their was a lot. But the just-Bruce ones lay the ground work for the Martha scene, and the injustice one maybe sets up something awesome in the future even if it went over most peoples heads.

If you wanted longer answers to some of these, you should have done one at a time maybe. I really don't understand why people don't like the plot though. What's a specific thing you don't like?

EVERYTHING.

It's had almost 0 redeemable qualitiies

Batman fears what Superman can potentially do, Lex hates him and wants the world to hate him so he sets up death where ever Superman goes when he can, Lois catches on and wants to expose this. Superman doesn't like Batman's tactics or the fact that his branded victims get killed, which is thanks to Lex. He's also discouraged because even though he's helping people, they still don't like him. (kind of like in civil war, they saved the world multiple times but people only see the casualties.) Lex is a super genius and knows the IDs of Bats and Sups and figures he can get the Bat to take out the God, but if he can't, he comes up with a contingency which becomes creating a kryptonian monster after he learns about it from the ship. Wonder woman is mainly set up, but she has a role with the Batman stuff.

Here are some reviews that capture my thoughts:

“The director is Zack Snyder, who was responsible for 300, Watchmen, Man of Steel and other Chekhovian chamber pieces, and whom I suspect of having worked for NutriBullet before he joined the movie business. When in doubt, he simply slings another ingredient into the mix, be it an irradiated monster, an explosion on government premises or the sharp smack of masonry on skull.”

“Yo, this movie makes no sense.”

"Despite its efforts to be dark and serious, nothing ever seems to matter, because you will be completely unable to sympathize with anyone. There’s nothing of merit to any of the characters, no defining trait that makes you want to cheer for them. There’s no fun, no love, no hope to the entire film. And those three things — fun, love, and hope, should be the hallmarks of a superhero film, especially the iconic ones like these. Instead, it’s a destitute, barren, soulless trash heap of a film, removing any semblance of heroism from its heroes, destroying any possibility of empathy and giving its audience nothing to root for at any point during this 151 minute-long atrocity."

And the plot holes

Avatar image for super_ninja
Super_ninja

3809

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

i'm still trying to understand the Flash's role in Bv.S

Avatar image for deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9
deactivated-5d731ee5de2e9

8670

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@super_ninja: he's from the future. That knightmare future. He came back to prevent it

Avatar image for ultimatesmfan
UltimateSMfan

2377

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By UltimateSMfan

@manofsteel11 said:

So many people have so many problems with Batman v Superman, and it's ridiculous. Most of the complaints can be explained away with a few sentences and some slightly deeper thinking. So I'm making this post to answer and correct any questions/ problems anyone might have about the movie.

Obviously the movie does have some problems (my biggest problem with the movie is that Superman didn't get to fight Doomsday fully powered alone. I thought his role in the fight was mostly trying to blitz and it just could have been better), like all movies do, so I won't be able to fix all the problems. But I love the movie so let me hear your questions/problems.

And if you have time, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKRmMQaLZz8

This guys' take on the movie is amazing, especially the Martha scene. IMO.

Ha! i've been watching the Ultimate Edition of the film over and over, The definitive version(and one i quite like) and was going to make a thread like this too.

Not to prove anyone wrong or anything but what people don't like about this movie mostly boils down to what they subjectively wanted from it and didn't get and that's no problem at all, we all go into it like that (though people could try to appreciate what the film makers were going for before completely writing it off)

Anyway as you said personal wants aside there are some complaints about facts about the movie itself concerning pretty obvious stuff which are weird and so my idea to make a similar thread.

If you are looking to get some more insight- This podcast i've been listening to the past couple of days is really good. There's another site: manofsteelanswers.com which is delivers extremely insightful analysis on bvs and the dceu movies.

There's soooooo much more to BvS thematically, metaphorically, than just the surface(which sadly because of the tons of straightforward marvel movies, we've become accustomed to) and once you learn what it is it becomes obvious and your appreciation grows. At least mine did.

@helloman said:

The fact that people are still discussing it and discussing it this much means that it is a movie that gets you to think about things and that is one of the aspects of a great movie. All that matters is that I enjoyed and lots of others enjoyed it.

I feel the same. And even if in someone's opinion it isn't a great movie, that's what the movie demands, i.e conversation. It is unapologetically realistic, one of the aspects i'm most fascinated with after years of reading comics(which are great but have never really delivered such a real world perspective) and it demands you to ask certain questions about the characters and then proceeds to answer them.

Avatar image for apex_pretador
APEX_pretador

23221

Forum Posts

50

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 7

martha