Civil War II #2

Ouch.

This is why I never take reviews on this site seriously.

Comicvine gives garbage like the TMNT movie 3 out of 5 stars, and this gets 2 stars?

This issue wasn't great, but it wasn't THAT bad.

Couldn't agree more with this review, glad Mat is seeing the bad side to Civil War II already in this issue. It's simply lacking stakes and gravitas as an event, the characters are acting seriously odd and the conflict between the heroes is just not nearly compelling enough to justify another Civil War. If you write an event, you have to set up relevant and high enough stakes to justify what conflict you want to happen and that's not happening any time soon in this event.

Sad to know Rhodey was killed for a stupid poorly written event only designed to cash in on the movie.

Pretty hard to imagine any justification for what Stark is doing, I can't believe even he thinks there's one. And after his role in the memory erasing of Cap, and all his other ethically-challenged actions, I find it hard to believe anyone is willing to hang out with this guy.

This is really bad. If not for awsome art it'd be a disaster. Both side are so stupid and fight for such a silly things. My question is how could Captain Marvel be so stupid to believe in every death Ulysses see?

So for many years they fought big danger and we have only a few losts in people and NOW I'm supposed to believe they all gonna die if they listen to Ulysses?! Come on, this is insaine.
The same shit they try to tell us in Civil War: X-men...suddenly Magneto would be dead by now if not the Ullysses prophesy. Everyone now will die...maybe that's the side effect of his stupid power? All danger are much more deadly? NO...it's just stupid Bendis.

Uhhh -.- I'm really mad.

As terrible as it sounds, I kinda hope this series ends up bombing. Marvel needs to stop with this constant cross-over, changing the status quo is the the status quo BS. It honestly feels like they're more focused on writing headlines than they are good stories and it's a damn shame.

@maddpanda531: Damn right! Unfortunately their action are more and more motivated by money, not a good stories.

I don't know why people are complaining so much about this story. And it's just that, a story. A story that is only 3 issues in. Things have to happen for the narrative to move along. Rhodey was killed and She-Hulk took a missile intended for Thanos to the chest. She-Hulk couldn't take Thanos 1-on1. So why is it so hard to believe that something intended for Thanos couldn't critically hurt She-Hulk? Plus, because I'm currently rereading the first Secret Wars, She-Hulk can get pretty messed up despite being a hulk. (She was beat up by by the Wrecking Crew, Absorbing Man, Titania, and Doc Ock. Then had to be put in a healing chamber.)

I've read every Iron Man comic from Fraction's run on, and I don't see anything that is completely out of Tony's character. His ego is off the charts. He always knows best. Plus grief can make someone do some pretty strange things. His best friend is dead, and everyone was just willing to accept what Ulysses said as gospel. Tony wanted answers, and it didn't seem like the others were too concerned about how or why Ulysses' power worked. Tony took matters into his own hands. Then when a bunch of his friends (and some pissed Inhumans) show up to possibly cave his head in, he tries to diffuse the situation with a bit of humor. He didn't want to fight them, or hurt Ulysses. He just wanted answers.

And the stakes of this story are very high. I would argue, after the events of last weekend in Orlando, are even more poignant to the real world. Should you punish someone for thinking something or saying something without a direct threat? It'd be a pretty scary world if we did. The Illuminati tried to prevent future danger by sending Hulk off world. That blew up in there faces spectacularly. Why would this time be any different? And btw Tony was part of the group that did that, so I'm sure he's recalling that a bit in taking the position he's taking.

I mean, I knew it was gonna be horrible, so I'm kinda annoyed at myself for still being surprised over just how BJORKING awful it turned out to be. (and we're only on the second issue!!!)

bendis, as always, does whatever the BJORK he wants with characters and writes them in whatever way that'll fit and move along the story, until no one is recognizable or, at best, only comes of a caricatures of themselves. he, yetagain, uses mental illness as a tool to move the plot along while depicting it in the most hamfisted disrespectful way possible (first his bullshit with wanda's break down over her kids that came out of nowhere which decimated her character so bad she was kept out of comics for years, and now tony's "mental breakdown" having him too act wildly out of character and move him into villain territory) while implementing the most basic of plots that the characters have faced before, have had blow up in their face, and should have long ago learned to deal with differently. the whole goddamn thing is forced as all hell, and the only groups for which it actually makes sense for to be heading into a conflict with each other, are the x-men and the inhumans.

besides all that, marvel has still not even fixed all the damaged done from the last war! there's still so much left unresolved from that conflict, and now we're adding more to this pile of crap. and that's the thing. fans have barley recovered from the ugliness that their favorite characters went through in that event, and now bendis is making sure that those same characters become even more unlikable. from cap being a BJORKING nazi, to carol spinning out of control with unethical arrests and preemptive actions, to tony apparently torturing a freaking teen, who's gonna have the energy to keep on reading about these BJORKS after this whole thing is done?? because as we've seen before, marvel will most likely give none of them redemption, just sweep it under the rug and start fresh. seems to me that the company wants to wipe their A-listers of the map by heading them down a road from which it's doubtful that they'll recover from. and killing of rhodey and jen is, and still remains, bullshit.

I'll keep up with news and see how much more downhill this will go (this event ain't seeing my money tho), like I have been, but I'm honestly wondering what the hell marvel thinks they're doing at this point.

@rubear said:

The best moments in this issue come from the art of David Marquez, with Justin Ponsor on colors.

Yeah. Without it it would be 1-star or 0-star. Whole issue in two panels.

How anybody would stand for Iron Man side after this is very big question.

Anyone else might be prosecuted for this. But then again Tony cares as much about laws as he does yesterdays lunch and Carol is not much better. Once again the difference between the marvel heroes and the villains is money, good pr and who you know.

Bendis rules marvel and as long as he sells he'll continue to rule marvel. Nothing we can do about it.

Was against this event from the get-go, and haven't been reading it, but from the sound of peoples reactions and reviews my intuition was right. This was/is nothing more than somekind of cash grab in conjuction with the Captain America: Civil War.

Not that they'll listen, but MARVEL reeeeally needs to stop with the events and focus on stronger, better written solo issues/story arcs.....but I'm guessing these things still sell for some reasob, so if thats the case I can't blame'em for doing whats best for business

As long as you don't read the actual words, you'll like this issue

@rubear: This could've been Tony's chance to be on a side and NOT engage in some serious evil stuff to get his point across but no. Dude had to torture someone about.

But seriously, why would anyone even write like that? Implying a very serious thing and then emoting and writing it like it was a field day. That just undermines the whole thing even more.

@iro:Now Now shhhhhh *gives you a hug* It's ok come let's sit down and have some tea to calm your nerves yes?

Im going to preface this post with the following: I love big events. I know that's frowned upon in the online communities, but I really do like the big picture, comic universe spanning stories. From reading Secret Wars when I was a kid to the fantastic Secret War we just had, this is what I look forward to the most. Of course it helps that I follow around 20-30 Marvel titles at any one time...

That being said...

Civil War II has been a mess from the get-go. From reading FCBD issue before issue 0 (because they came out in that order) and it not making a lot of sense from a character motivation standpoint to this most recent issue being such a tragically awful letdown, I have little faith this is going to be redeemed at any point. Not all major events are equal (Secret Wars 2, Fear Itself, Secret Invasion for example I thought were bad to terrible while Infinity, Secret War, House of M, and others were some of my favorite all time stories), but this one might be in the running for top-five worst.

Tony Starks personality is all over the place. Hes basically acting on a "there must be something else amiss here!" motivation that incredibly forced. Not to mention (once again) Stark is the villain of the story. Im sure they will pull some nonsense later with an "I told you so " kinda moment, but he has zero sensible reason to be acting the way he is in this story. Karnak was incredibly out of character compared to his solo series. Tony Stark is torturing people. Carol is going to do something out of character next issue (based on the end scene). T'Challa is going against what his stance has been since the Illuminati.

That's ignoring the biggest elephant in the room: The plot doesn't make any sense! They actually make fun of this in the Deadpool tie-in. There are many many characters in the Marvel Universe with Time travel and precognitive abilities. The friction that is supposed to spark the "war" is so forced, its just painful. Also - why was International Iron Man a "Civil War tie-in?". It had nothing to do with the event!

I'm not going to act like I'm not going to finish it out, because I will (saying otherwise would just be an outright lie) but man, it feels like such a letdown...

@youmessinwithme: you know it just dawned on me that besides the fact that there are other characters besides the new guy that can look into the future but they all have acess to time travel tech hell bendis created a time manipulator mutant.

@rubear said:

The best moments in this issue come from the art of David Marquez, with Justin Ponsor on colors.

Yeah. Without it it would be 1-star or 0-star. Whole issue in two panels.

How anybody would stand for Iron Man side after this is very big question.

I think I'll be skipping Civil War II now...

Is it too late to get Jonathan Hickman back?

Just enjoy it for what it is. The art is very pretty regardless of the issues with the book.

#

That's what I'm going to have to do I guess. It was the art that enticed me to buy it anyway. Well that and buying The Ultimates comics which tie-in to this. Once I saw Hulk on the cover of CW2 #3 I was hyped.

Sometimes the art will get me to buy a book regardless of the story. Personally I don't expect much from a Civil War part II (there's really no reason why marvel heroes would ever make that mistake again).

So I'm just settling for enjoying the super pretty art Marquez and Ponsor are putting forward.

I am surprised people are surprised. Bendis opened this event with a a gun touting Thanos, who was defeated by the avengers, after a event in which he basically smacked them around( I know they weren't that many, but a hulk, CM at top power, hyperion and OG Thor is no joke). You were warned.

Also warmachine killing She-Hulk.

The pacing of this story is horrible. Tony, for being such a genius well-prepped futurist, is an irrational dick. I get your friend died, but it is a part of the job. Didn't we leave off with Tony rushing to Thanos' cell to confront him for killing Warmachine?

The way Bendis writes Carol annoys me. Her wise cracking comes off as a teenage girl trying to be funny and hip...

The Hulk stuff at the end was cool. Hulk was palming Iron Man in his hand like a snickers bar, so maybe a size (and power) upgrade? Bendis might have him job though... @atheistknowledge@thedailybagel@ghostravage

5 through 10,000. KEEP BENDIS AWAY FROM BIG EVENTS

Wow it didn't take that long for the story to go downhill and the writing to suck. Good job Bendis

@nima_: it's bendis, he had thanos get knocked out by carol when earlier in the same fight her binary form could do nothing. He doesn't care for power levels or consistency, the best we can hope for is that whatever brings banner down is reasonable, like a godblast for instance.

On that note, chulk is getting a tie in written by pak who (despite his current hulk run being pretty bad) seems to be on course to fight both teams because of what happens to banner. I'm more looking forward to that because unlike bendis, pak is consistent with power portrayal and rates hulk very highly.

@renchamp: This comic was BJORKING awful! lol

You're such a genius Carol.

@thedailybagel: to be fair,the Ultimates comic revealed he's been weakened, hence his use of guns in that fight.

Although She Hulk dying from a single war machine rocket pisses me off...

Ulysses specifically said that Tony tortured him. It's on the panel. "He tortured me." So when you say that Tony didn't want to hurt him I think you are wrong.

@mark_stephen: tony didn't 'torture him', ullyses said that more for more comedic affect. He flicked his head to see if his brain would spike (like literally just flicked him with his finger out of armour), and then pretended to punch him to see if fear would get it to work instead. Ulysses asked if tony was gonna hurt him and he just replied with 'I'm ironman, one of the good guys' or something like that, otherwise meaning "of course im not going to hurt you".

I feel like the civil war issues are becoming more like clickbait you see on the internet. The vision Ulysses had about Hulk killing everyone just screams of "plz show this comic event attention, tune in next time for hulk to maybe do something".....

@thedailybagel: Thank you! Tony did kidnap Ulysses from his bed, tie him up,flick him in the face without armor, and threatened to punch him. I thought it was comedic effect too, but Ulysses might really consider that torture. Even if it was torture it was pretty mild, all things considered.

So kidnapping, unlawful detention and physical assault is ok as long as Tony Stark is doing it? Come on, these are crimes! He is breaking the law! Seriously breaking the law and then he's joking about it. "Just a story" or not has the moral and legal bar at marvel gotten so low that serious crimes just don't matter anymore? Because really if kidnapping and such are ok now there are a lot of super villains who are in jail unfairly.

Yea it was terrible

Bendis might not remember that.

@nima_: Tom Brevoort stated "It is not a good time to be a Hulk" after Newsrama asked him about that scan of him killing and overpowering that team, which means things are not going to be as we're expecting. Likewise, Newsrama asked him if that was Amadeus Cho or Banner and he didn't answer but subtly implied it was Banner but the context behind why he's so big and why he's on a rampage and why he recovered his powers is still a mystery, albeit, he also claimed Banner went on a mission with Carol so perhaps he gained his powers there. I'm pretty sure the instance will have context that will defy the legitimacy of Hulk doing such thing, even though he's more than capable of doing so realistically. The only thing that has me genuinely excited is the fact Brevoort claimed Banner would be a major character in issues to come as well as possibly starring in other series and stories.

If anything, here's the interview.

http://www.newsarama.com/29754-civil-war-ii-2-takeaways-tonys-sane-the-horror-of-a-pants-less-hulk-wait-until-3.html

Hope this helps.

Thank the one above all he's back.

I learned my lesson after Secret Wars II... sequels suck. I had no expectations for this as there was no where to go. The ending of the first one to me was a let down and a cop out. The sequel is simply something that never should have been.

@superior_prime_maybe: I completely agree with all your points, I'd like to add a fifth:

Keep...oh damn too late to the party.

But yeah, characters acting wildly out of character to justify the plot...lame. And writers who ignore all the other precogs/time travellers and prophets to justify the plot...double lame. Maybe some of the current writers of Marvel should crack open the handbook of the Marvel universe once in a while.

At least have Tony drunk to explain his irrational behaviour...

@g2_: Hello.

Please be aware that CV is vehemently anti piracy/illegal comics viewing, and the website you linked to… well its the kind of website that could cause issues for CV. That and users as well, posting such links is a fast way to get permanently banned.

I am going to assume that you just weren't aware of this and were just trying to help a fellow user out, but for future reference okay? So final warning and remember not to post links to shady websites.

Please don't ban me, I'm sorry.

I promise. But what do you mean by final warning?

At least She Hulk is dead, finally

@g2_: Hello. You aren't banned. Its fine.

Final warning means, that if you break another site rule, you might be banned though, so try and behave, but mostly just be considerate and careful. If you have more questions or worries though, feel free to send me a PM and I can try and help with anything.

@krleavenger: Shes alive.