Captain Marvel's sidekick selling better than her

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poeticwarrior

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#1  Edited By poeticwarrior

Captain Marvel is selling worse than her sidekick Ms. Marvel. She's pulling 15k while Ms. Marvel, who is a South Asian woman, pulling 20k. Did they ruin Carol with Civil War II to the point of beyond redemption? They want to establish her as the Wonder Woman of Marvel, but it seems like a lot of people tuning out to Captain Marvel. Maybe they're just keeping her afloat, waiting for the movie to kick in. It's like with Harley Quinn and Joker, Harley used to be Joker's sidekick, but now she's even more popular than the Joker. Her comic is pulling in A-list number. I could see in the future that Kamala replacing Carol as Captain Marvel, considering the sales. Still, I think Kamala would be better as a funny sidekick who involved with school and society storyline than take on commander role from Carol. I don't know what's Marvel's plan for Carol, but they really need to do something to bring in the reader back for Captain Marvel. With the movie coming out, the comic will definitely be made regardless to maintain the hype. It's basically how they could make Carol work and increase readership for her.

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deactivated-5caa8c47e8598

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I don't think Ms. Marvel is Captain Marvel's "sidekick."

But yeah, Carol is becoming irredeemable as a character... She used to be likable and interesting, now she's a boring fascist-in-the-making.

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Aros001

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I think Kamala more just idolizes Carol and was inspired by her more than she was ever an actual sidekick. She's kind of like how Batgirl would be if Batman gave her his approval to keep doing what she was doing but didn't ever actually take her under his wing or trust her with too much of his own personal life.

It's kind of amazing that Civil War 2 did about the same amount of damage to Carol's character as the first Civil War did to Tony's. It's especially odd to me considering that they were trying to build Carol up to being their big female superhero. Why put in all that effort and then put Carol in charge of the obviously wrong side of the event's conflict? I seriously don't see the logic in it.

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Lord_Spectrum

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#4  Edited By Lord_Spectrum

So Civil War II did that much to Carol sale-wise... not surprised really...

But honestly Carol was way better character before taking the mantle of Captain Marvel (and with better design as well :D ), which was sorta out of character when she did it (anyone who read some older stuff with Carol would understand what i am talking about), Ms. Marvel was supposed to be her schtick, not hindered by anyone or any mantle, she was her own unique person, and didn't even think or want the mantle of CM, but then Marvel's big boys go and do some heck as usual.

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theredhood44

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#5  Edited By theredhood44

Both are usless sjw garbage, also harley is 100% not more popular then the joker, but she is alot more popular then before

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Green_Tea

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Lmao she will never be Marvel's Wonder Woman. No female character in Marvel holds a candle to Diana.

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Lord_Spectrum

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Lmao she will never be Marvel's Wonder Woman. No female character in Marvel holds a candle to Diana.

Not even Sue Storm/Richards?

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deactivated-097092725

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Since when has Ms. Marvel ever been Captain Marvel's sidekick?

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Thor-Parker

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I don't think Ms. Marvel is Captain Marvel's "sidekick."

But yeah, Carol is becoming irredeemable as a character... She used to be likable and interesting, now she's a boring fascist-in-the-making.

This

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kgb725

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@ms-lola: Never

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Blaredevil

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Kamala isn't Carol's sidekick. She does fangirl over Carol, but even then shes become alot more likeable than Carol has ever been. Shes a despicable woman and I gladly await her death.

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Aros001

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Kamala isn't Carol's sidekick. She does fangirl over Carol, but even then shes become alot more likeable than Carol has ever been. Shes a despicable woman and I gladly await her death.

You want her to die because short-sighted executives screwed her character over?

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ITouchedTheBoat

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idk why it was important to mention she was South Asian, but she's not a sidekick, and Captain Marvel is a beach

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Blaredevil

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@aros001 said:
@blaredevil said:

Kamala isn't Carol's sidekick. She does fangirl over Carol, but even then shes become alot more likeable than Carol has ever been. Shes a despicable woman and I gladly await her death.

You want her to die because short-sighted executives screwed her character over?

It wasn't just executives plenty of writers have made Carol unlikeable even before CWII. She was a pretentious self absorbed woman and the #1 hero in House of M for a reason.

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poeticwarrior

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#16  Edited By poeticwarrior

@itouchedtheboat said:

idk why it was important to mention she was South Asian, but she's not a sidekick, and Captain Marvel is a beach

People said minority characters don't sell books several times, which also stated them to be a reason why Marvel Now failed, but in this instance, she's outselling Captain Marvel, a White character.

There are plenty of arrogant hard headed characters like Thor, Iron Man. What make her different from these characters? Especially Iron Man who did the same thing as Carol in the last Civil War forcing other heroes to do what he wants.

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kiba

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Carol isn't really a good character to start with, maybe as part of a group but not as a solo act, there's no way she'd be more popular than a better devoloped one, with an actual motivation, a supporting cast and original villains, which I assume Ms Marvel has. I've tried reading Carols books and she didn't have anything worthwhile going on in the first civil war and I doubt anything's changed other than she doesn't dress like a stripper anymore.

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Battle123axe

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@scott_summers52 said:

I don't think Ms. Marvel is Captain Marvel's "sidekick."

But yeah, Carol is becoming irredeemable as a character... She used to be likable and interesting, now she's a boring fascist-in-the-making.

This

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poeticwarrior

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#19  Edited By poeticwarrior

@kiba said:

Carol isn't really a good character to start with, maybe as part of a group but not as a solo act, there's no way she'd be more popular than a better devoloped one, with an actual motivation, a supporting cast and original villains, which I assume Ms Marvel has. I've tried reading Carols books and she didn't have anything worthwhile going on in the first civil war and I doubt anything's changed other than she doesn't dress like a stripper anymore.

Her book sold way better before though, so she's used to be more popular pre-Civil War. If she's underdeveloped then wouldn't it be better to develop her further, so she can become more well rounded as a character? Is the solution to introduce a rogue gallery for her and a rival?

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kiba

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#20  Edited By kiba

@poeticwarrior: but are they developing her or are they just renumbering? Doesn't seem like marvel is fixing the issue but instead are complaining about the "bigots" who aren't buying from them anymore.

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Thegamemanuel

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Once her movie is out, and the business of civil war 2 is forgotten (give it a year) she'll be liked again. I think that the reason her books sold way better back then was because like someone else pointed out she use to dress like a stripper. It's a sad truth but we comic book fans are kinda pervs....nothing wrong with that really. It's why most female costumes back then were tight, Marvel is trying to make her in to a female role model like wonder women. Most of her fans were probably guys and when marvel started to change her (really quickly) they didn't like it and stopped buying her comics.

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Magian

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#22  Edited By Magian

I was under the impression that Carol Danvers always had a problem with sales. Even before CW2.

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Blaredevil

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@agent41:

First Wonder Woman needs to be beaten to a pulp because appearantly she is not humble. Now Carol must die. Somebody seems to have a problem with strong women that stand up for themselves and aren't afraid of taking names. @aros001

>Says Kamala is a likeable character.

>Gets accused of not liking strong heroines who stand up for themselves when Kamala is exactly that.

Do you ever like, contemplate what your going to post before you say it? Lol. And Carol isn't somebody whos standing up for themselves. Shes an emotionally unstable bully, whos own arrogance and attitude has gotten heroes killed, hurt and put another in a coma. Even Kamala herself has lost faith in Carol, but its not like she wasn't that way to begin with.

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Some hero huh? Kek. Also I'm proud to see you followed me on another thread from being so triggered on the main one.

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Blaredevil

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@agent41:

@blaredevil: What made you think i follow you around?. I checked this thread and i saw your comment. Don't act so high and mighty.

>Quotes another thread I made you angry on, follows me to another one. Kek.

Whatever you say.

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Blaredevil

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@agent41:

I made an observation. WW needs to be beaten to a pulp to "learn", Carol needs to die. I made an observation buddy.

Not a very smart or intelligent observation it seems.

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ITouchedTheBoat

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@itouchedtheboat said:

idk why it was important to mention she was South Asian, but she's not a sidekick, and Captain Marvel is a beach

People said minority characters don't sell books several times, which also stated them to be a reason why Marvel Now failed, but in this instance, she's outselling Captain Marvel, a White character.

oh, true lol I didn't even consider that. Good point

There are plenty of arrogant hard headed characters like Thor, Iron Man. What make her different from these characters? Especially Iron Man who did the same thing as Carol in the last Civil War forcing other heroes to do what he wants.

They're not beaches

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MarvelandDCfan24

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Captain Marvel is a awful character not suprised especially after CW2

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deactivated-5b3daad020468

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I hope Carol gets run over by a planet sized car ....repeatedly...Ult Carol was better and hotter to boot.

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King_Nomarch

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Brought up Kamala's race why?

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LDM

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Carol deserves it. I never like her character in the first place

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destinyman75

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I think Carol has been screwed by current marvel, but hardly beyond redemption she's just In need of an upgrade in character and writer for storylines, the movie should help out with That

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Blaredevil

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#35  Edited By Blaredevil

@agent41:

That's what i thought about your comments directed to these characters.

I'm pretty sure you just got salty over peoples opinions on characters you're biased for. Standard stuff from sensitive fanatics.

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RabumAlal

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Carol's solo titles have always been shit and boring imo. She is a character that sometimes works well in team books or when she is a guest in another solo.

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Naamah_Obyzouth

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Carol maybe can redeem herself, but she will never equal Diana. Wonder Woman >>>>>>> Captian Marvel.

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deactivated-097092725

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I think Carol has been screwed by current marvel, but hardly beyond redemption she's just In need of an upgrade in character and writer for storylines, the movie should help out with That

Yep.

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poeticwarrior

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Carol maybe can redeem herself, but she will never equal Diana. Wonder Woman >>>>>>> Captian Marvel.

What makes Wonder Woman so much better than Captain Marvel? Her backstory? Her charisma? Her story? Her rogue gallery? What prevents Captain Marvel from becoming Marvel's Wonder Woman?

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morpheus_

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#41  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator

@poeticwarrior said:

There are plenty of arrogant hard headed characters like Thor, Iron Man. What make her different from these characters? Especially Iron Man who did the same thing as Carol in the last Civil War forcing other heroes to do what he wants.

Except people didn't end up applauding Tony for it -- he was resented, despised and eventually Iron Man's own writer (Fraction) tore him down to the point he was nearly brain-dead after a storyline that lasted nearly a year and a half in a quest to redefine Tony and redeem him.

Carol just got a pat on the back about how cool she is.

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Naamah_Obyzouth

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@poeticwarrior: A lot of changes would have to be made to Carol, in order to have her match Diana in terms of idealism. Diana is the ideal feminist icon, she has all of the qualities that us mere mortals only wish that we had. She is strong, yet she can be soft. She is a warrior, yet she can be very diplomatic. She is beautiful, yet she is also very humble. She's like Mary Poppins in the sense that she is practically perfect in every way, something to strive for.

Perfection is the unattainable goal, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't strive for it. Diana understands this because she strives for it as well, she is not perfect, she does make mistakes. She only appears perfect to normal people because how much effort she applies to trying to attain perfection.

(I'll try to answer more in depth later, but my work shift is about to start.)

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Druzzie

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idk why it was important to mention she was South Asian, but she's not a sidekick, and Captain Marvel is a beach

Because people still consider Carol Danvers Ms. marvel. I know the push for Captain Marvel as Carol but the Carol Captian Marvel compared to a side by side of Carol Ms. Marvel is as different as night and day. If I did not tell people they would not have believed its the same person. So by saying that she's South Asian, that actually help me instantly think of Kamala Khan. Who entire comic is base on her race and not her powers.

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Kingnemo

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Kamala is a better character

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Aros001

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@druzzie said:
@itouchedtheboat said:

idk why it was important to mention she was South Asian, but she's not a sidekick, and Captain Marvel is a beach

Because people still consider Carol Danvers Ms. marvel. I know the push for Captain Marvel as Carol but the Carol Captian Marvel compared to a side by side of Carol Ms. Marvel is as different as night and day. If I did not tell people they would not have believed its the same person. So by saying that she's South Asian, that actually help me instantly think of Kamala Khan. Who entire comic is base on her race and not her powers.

While her being an Inhuman is not brought up that much, a lot of Ms. Marvel stories do also deal with teenage issues (like you'd expect a teen hero to do) and her being a superhero fangirl, as well as fighting against a lot of weird super-science like clones and living computer viruses. Yes, the comic deals with Muslim stuff too but it'd be boring if that's all it was and nobody would be reading it.

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Druzzie

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@agent41:

First Wonder Woman needs to be beaten to a pulp because appearantly she is not humble. Now Carol must die. Somebody seems to have a problem with strong women that stand up for themselves and aren't afraid of taking names. @aros001

>Says Kamala is a likeable character.

>Gets accused of not liking strong heroines who stand up for themselves when Kamala is exactly that.

Do you ever like, contemplate what your going to post before you say it? Lol. And Carol isn't somebody whos standing up for themselves. Shes an emotionally unstable bully, whos own arrogance and attitude has gotten heroes killed, hurt and put another in a coma. Even Kamala herself has lost faith in Carol, but its not like she wasn't that way to begin with.

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Some hero huh? Kek. Also I'm proud to see you followed me on another thread from being so triggered on the main one.

Was this during the SUper Hero registration act? Didn't luke cage get dragged out of his house like it was 1960 or was I thinking of another black character?

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Blaredevil

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#47  Edited By Blaredevil

@druzzie: Yes it was Civil War and yes Luke got dragged out of his house while chilling at home with his wife and child. For no reason whatsoever.