@makhai: I know but the people I discussed it with seem to hand wave that away under the circumstances Tony saw his parents die. Logic was pushed aside in that discussion. Kind of questioning how many have the same thoughts, even though I disagree.
@makhai: I know but the people I discussed it with seem to hand wave that away under the circumstances Tony saw his parents die. Logic was pushed aside in that discussion. Kind of questioning how many have the same thoughts, even though I disagree.
Well okay then. I will offer my two cents. I think the answer is pretty obvious that Bucky was a victim just as much as Tony's parents. He has no control over what he did at all. Tony knew this too, he just didn't care. He knew his actions were wrong even, but they were driven by sudden, uncontrollable rage. He outright tried to murder someone and he did so knowing it was wrong. We see in the beginning of the movie that his parent's death has had a lifelong impact on him. Tony wasn't thinking with reason, logic, or concern for others. He was consumed by his own pain in that one moment.
I doubt he will act the same if they ever encounter one another again.
Yes, I can get why Tony wanted to kill him, but he should know why that happen.
He knew. He said he didn't care because it was his mom.
I know, he was just being an ass because he wanted to, and clearly was in the wrong. He was acting like a random civilian then a leader, he was being irrational instead of using logic is what I meant.
@love: So Cap, saving Bucky from being murdered in Wakanda by a then vengeful Black Panterh, made Bucky's life worse when compared to how it ended? I think you need to take a critical thinking class on that one mate
With regards to the OP yes Bucky was a victim and his treatment by Team Iron Man/The Accords simply shows why bending the knee to the Iron Throne of the U.N.; was a bad idea.
@redlantern2814: Bucky could have gotten away, remember when Cap brought his helicopter down?
Cap also drug Bucky into a Superhero civil war, not to mention added several crimes to Bucky's rap sheet, Bucky could have explained he was brain washed and wasnt at fault, too late now Cap made he break several laws while he was in complete control of his own mind.
@love: Brainwashed terminator Bucky could have gotten away. See this is what I find completely weird when it comes to Pro-Iron Man people. If Cap stops Bucky from being executed; he's wrong. If he stops Bucky when he is the programmed Winter Soldier; he's wrong. Btw, Tony Stark also attempted to stop the programmed Bucky from escaping; are you going to condemn him for trying or does he get to play the hypocrite?
Secondly, you assert that Bucky could have explained his actions if not for Cap's interference. Question: When was he going to be able to do that? After the German authorities executed him? After Black Panther murdered him? When he was at the U.N. compound where he was denied a lawyer by the Governmet and was left alone in a room with Zemo who activated him? etc etc. Exactly where in all this was the moment where Bucky gets his chance to defend himself?
Lastly, the law is not inherently moral. If you think breaking the law automatically makes someone bad then you best be prepared to condemn abolitionists of the past as well as all the Jews who fought for freedom in the Warsaw Ghetto. Go on and take that moment I will give you a minute.
@freshflintstone: he did go crazy. It's a sympathiziable type of crazy but it is in fact crazy because it's taking rage out on someone who had no control of their actions.
Yes, he was a victim among many. The question is suppose a man raised a dog to kill humans and it killed on command. Who is to blame, the dog or its master? What happens to the dog? Now humans are not dogs and their lives are valued higher. Bucky chose internment, because like a trained-to-kill dog, he knew he could not be trusted.
Yep he was without a shadow of a doubt..He was severely misunderstood, And you can tell from the moments when hes not under his kill bot programming that hes a good guy, Like when he Ask Steve are your friends ok? becuase i honestly dont think i,m worth all this trouble.
@redlantern2814: They can't exxcute him if they can't find him....
It took 7 years the first time, Cap can explain while he's gone, then find him.
Stop looking so far into it.
The Fact is Cap did it in a way that was Ignorant, hard headed, and straight up stupid.
1) If you had watched the movie you would know they did find him.
2) This is basic parts of the story that require zero deeper thought for someone who has seen the movie. Especially since Black Panther got their a short time after the U.N. located him and everyone who saw the movie can tell you that Bucky was a dead man.
3) I think Cap was insightful, thoughtful, and brilliant. I think he is insightful because he knew the Accords were a bad idea, he was thoughtful because he considered signing the Accords, and brilliant because in the end his side won while Tony's side lost with some members unable to continue being Avengers on his side.
@avenging_x_bolt: It is unfortunate for Buck...it's tragic, it really is. But I personally don't believe in using his brainwashing as a free pass, just because he was brainwashed doesn't make all the horrific things he's done and lives he's destroy go away. Hard for me to explain I guess...just the way I feel about.
@avenging_x_bolt: It is unfortunate for Buck...it's tragic, it really is. But I personally don't believe in using his brainwashing as a free pass, just because he was brainwashed doesn't make all the horrific things he's done and lives he's destroy go away. Hard for me to explain I guess...just the way I feel about.
So what should his punishment be for being compelled to commit crimes?
@redlantern2814: Oh geez, I don't know...make him run some laps, slap his hand, string him up by his toe nails lol....I'm no judge, I just don't believe in letting him walk scott-free without somekind of punishment..s'all I'm saying.
@mazahs117: If you want him to be punished you would need to charge him with a crime; so what would you charge him with? Also be aware you are also saying everyone who was a victim of Killgrave's powers in Jessica Jones should equally be punished under your legal ruling.
Yep completely the victim. He is as guilty of those murders as the physical gun would be. Tony on the other hand totally deserves to be charged for attempted murder.
Went into the movie as the only team cap, with three team iron man friends. By the end all three switched sides.
@redlantern2814: I don't know....Like I said, I'm no judge or aficionado in the law/penal system and I'm not going pretend to be, so I don't know how Bucky's involvement in the laundry list of massacres would be ruled or judged...if even at all
...and my apologies I haven't seen any of Jessica Jones, so I don't get that reference.
@avenging_x_bolt: It is unfortunate for Buck...it's tragic, it really is. But I personally don't believe in using his brainwashing as a free pass, just because he was brainwashed doesn't make all the horrific things he's done and lives he's destroy go away. Hard for me to explain I guess...just the way I feel about.
i guess i feel differently. i can certainly understand that horrible things have been done, i just feel that it should be put on Hydra, its not like Bucky joined up or served them of his own free will. anyway, i guess i should just be glad this fiction.
@avenging_x_bolt: True that, good thing it is fiction. It's very sad. Bucky didn't have a choice being programed and all, and god bless Steve for sticking with his friend thru thick and thin...or "Until the end of the line" as Buck would say. Buck had Steve's back when he was nothing, pre Super Soldier Serum...It's extremely unfortunate. But for me personally Barnes has to be held to some form of accountability for his actions as well as HYDRA.
In my heart of hearts, I think Bucky would feel the same way, he's a good dude. But I can completely understand how some can feel differently about this and make a solid arguement to counter my POV.
Mos def he is a victim nothing will change that. Still Buck himself said it to cap it doesn't matter the sin doesn't go away. Plus i can't blame Tony brain washed or not i watched a vid of this guy killing my mom then blood has to pay for blood. I don't know why people keep saying Cap won. How is it winning to have the avengers split up when Thanos is coming.
@redlantern2814: I don't know....Like I said, I'm no judge or aficionado in the law/penal system and I'm not going pretend to be, so I don't know how Bucky's involvement in the laundry list of massacres would be ruled or judged...if even at all
...and my apologies I haven't seen any of Jessica Jones, so I don't get that reference.
Jessica Jones' villain in her series is Killgrave and he is a man who has the ability to control the minds of others. He uses this ability to cause innocent people to do horrible things.
Secondly, if you haven't given enough thought to what you would even want Bucky charged with then I would recommend not asking for him to be charged with anything at all
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