Can DCEU Superman Lift Mjolnir? Why or why not?

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stumerica

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Poll Can DCEU Superman Lift Mjolnir? Why or why not? (71 votes)

Yes. 35%
No. 49%
Maybe. 10%
Yes, but... 3%
No, but... 3%

Don't see why he couldn't, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

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reactor

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#1  Edited By reactor

The parameters for "worthiness" are impossible to determine. Steve, unlike Thor, underwent little-to-no actual character progression or development between AoU and EG, yet by EG, he was somehow deemed more "worthy" than he was just four years ago.

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MarvelandDCfan24

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Idk I really don't think that it was Cap was "worthy" but more so that Thor was going to die imo Cap is far less worthy during Endgame then AoU

I really wouldn't call MCU Thor a "worthy" individual as he as a character is more flawed and conflicted then most of the human characters especially in Endgame he is the embodiment of patheticness and I think the hammer calls to him because he is "Thor" and he only gains the hammer back because he sacrificed himself and would've died as they show Odin crying before the hammer returns to him indicating he knew of his sons demise

Superman is a better hero than most of the MCU he doesn't have many imperfections besides the conflict of helping a world that doesn't necessarily want him too so he should be worthy but then shain he's not Thor so...

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NWName

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@reactor said:

The parameters for "worthiness" are impossible to determine. Steve, unlike Thor, underwent little-to-no actual character progression or development between AoU and EG, yet by EG, he was somehow deemed more "worthy" than he was just four years ago.

Directors and writers confirmed that he always could have lifted it.

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stumerica

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@reactor: My theory is his lie about Howard's death is what stopped him: after the truth came out, he could lift it.

As for the parameters, all 3 wielders (Hela used it before the enchantment and Odin's an oddball, so they don't count) are all compassionate, self-sacrificing, and have strong morals, three traits I'd say fit Clark to a tee.

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Supermanfan1938

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The worthiness enchantment is total bogus. What do you have to be to be worthy? A proud battler? Courageous? Selfless? Sacrifice? If so a lot more characters should be able to lift it but a flawed Thor can pick it up. Now Jane will to. Obviously it's up to plot at this point, it's hard to determine if Cavill Superman who's obviously selfless but detached from humanity (and murdered Zod) can pick it up. Thor murdered creatures as well, wasn't as selfless and wasn't well acquainted with humanity but he could still lift it before.

For now I say Superman can't lift it because he's still a far cry from the inspirational man his counterparts are. I feel like worthy means "live up to your full potential as long as you're not evil"

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stumerica

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@supermanfan1938: How is Superman detached and not inspirational? Genuinely curious.

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MetalJimmor

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For now I say Superman can't lift it because he's still a far cry from the inspirational man his counterparts are. I feel like worthy means "live up to your full potential as long as you're not evil"

I'd argue that after his resurrection Clark fulfills that requirement.

Justice League was really bad at showcasing it, but that was Clark after his big character defining moment in BvS. His journey up until that point was his struggle between wanting to do the right thing and not knowing what the right thing really was. Was Superman to become Earth's savior or not? Does he have a responsibility to be Earth's guardian since he has the power? Or should he listen to the vocal media personalities and leave humanity to its own devices?

"Be their hero, Clark. Be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be. Or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did."

People give this quote a lot of shit but it encapsulates Clark's struggle through the movies. He has to make a choice. He has to commit to that choice. Martha isn't telling Clark to not be a hero. She's telling him that it is his choice.

In the end Clark chooses to be our hero. He realizes that our world is his world and that there are people in it he wants to protect. So he picks up the spear that is literally killing him and sacrifices his life, cementing his decision to become the hero of Earth.

When he is brought back he doesn't have any of those doubts or second guesses he had in MoS or BvS anymore. A lot of people take this as his personality being retconned, but it wasn't. He finally had a clarity of purpose. He made his choice and was ready to live his life by that choice.

In other words, he had finally decided to be the best Superman he can be.

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reactor

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@nwname said:
@reactor said:

The parameters for "worthiness" are impossible to determine. Steve, unlike Thor, underwent little-to-no actual character progression or development between AoU and EG, yet by EG, he was somehow deemed more "worthy" than he was just four years ago.

Directors and writers confirmed that he always could have lifted it.

I'd like to see a source of each specific claim, for one. This would need to include not only those writing while working with the Russo Brothers, but also those that worked with Whedon, as well as the respective director(s). But with all due respect to them, such confirmations amount to virtually nothing. It's not uncommon for writers or directors to make claims that not only do not compliment the cinematic narrative, there have been times where they've outright contradicted it. This is one such time.

Steve had an active and extended opportunity to wield Thor's hammer, and the most that could happen was an almost imperceptible budge. Then he gave up. He tried in earnest, and it failed. That happened. It was clearly depicted in the narrative and thus made canonical. Now if this other narrative is otherwise supported in secondary sources, like a tie-in comic or something else related to the MCU internally, that's another story. But to claim that Steve could have always wielded Mjolnir is a "fact" that exists outside of the canonical narrative, which for all intents and purposes, amounts to not existing at all in the first place.

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TakenStew22

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#9 TakenStew22  Online

Maybe. It's hard to say.

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deactivated-5ebb616323ddd

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any dc lift

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deactivated-5ebb616323ddd

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but srsly, maybe.

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Shinne

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@reactor: My theory is his lie about Howard's death is what stopped him: after the truth came out, he could lift it.

As for the parameters, all 3 wielders (Hela used it before the enchantment and Odin's an oddball, so they don't count) are all compassionate, self-sacrificing, and have strong morals, three traits I'd say fit Clark to a tee.

Ahh, you watch SuperCarlinBrothers as well? Nice!

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Ready_4_Madness

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We don’t know the requirements so we don’t know. The better question is would he even need it?

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stumerica

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@lan_fan: No, that was a personal theory of mine. But thanks! Do you think DCEU Clark could lift Mjolnir?

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stumerica

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We don’t know the requirements so we don’t know. The better question is would he even need it?

Just go off what we've seen, and assume he's in the most optimal situation to lift it (during a fight or in a party, either or).

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Erkan12

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#16  Edited By Erkan12

Clark's main motive was Lois. There is also an alternative reality where Clark goes evil when Lois dies.

So, that's the difference between Clark and Thor / Cap. Even when Jane dump Thor, Thor is still worthy. Cap is too worthy without Peggy.

Clark can't lift it.

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Shinne

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@stumerica: I see... In my opinion, yes. Superman is very similar to Captain America to me. Plus, not to start a debate, but the enchantment itself doesn't have too many feats. Sure, Hulk couldn't lift it, but I think Superman is stronger than Hulk. It sounds petty, but saying Superman couldn't lift it with brute strength alone would be NLF on the hammer's part (and on my part, since I'm the one who think Superman is stronger than Hulk, and I can't apply that to everyone).

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Erkan12

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#18  Edited By Erkan12

@lan_fan: Of course you can't apply to everyone when it's obviously wrong. And that's not the issue, Hulk couldn't even move it an inch. It's not about physical strength, it's magic. And Clark is the last person you would want to use against magic, the guy is a walking weakness to magic.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@stumerica: I don’t think he can. If Stark can’t then Superman can’t.

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Ready_4_Madness

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@erkan12: *vulnerable* not weakness. Cap is vulnerable to magic but still managed to lift it. Not saying Superman can lift it but still...

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Erkan12

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@ready_4_madness: It was a reply to someone who thinks mjolnir can be lifted by sheer strength.

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Mr_Shazam0920

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Can someone explain to me how Thor is “flawed” but Clark isn’t?

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Mr_Shazam0920

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@marvelanddcfan24:

Thor is “patheticness”. Okay. Your obvious bias is showing.

Your girl Diana lost ONE loved one and was a recluse for 70 years. Your boy Superman lost Lois and turned into a dictator, ruling the world and murdering everyone who opposed him.

Thor is pathetic because he lost his world, his parents, his brother, best friend, half his people, and a momentary act of arrogance cost the lives of half the universe and that made him depressed. Okay.

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KingCarcosa

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Yes. Clark is the most worthy character I know.

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MarvelandDCfan24

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#25  Edited By MarvelandDCfan24

@mr_shazam0920: That was a dream sequence of Bruce who in BvS is a delusional lunatic hell bent on killing Superman to make him feel like he actually did something for the world after failing to make a difference in Gotham after years of heroing around, he is then is manipulated by Luthor into thinking Superman caused the death of his employees when his building collapsed while Zod and Clark fought eachother so that nightmare scene has nothing to do with who Superman is and was never explored like it would've been in JL had it not been a disaster

WW wouldn't be worthy never said she would be

And Thor in an act of arrogance (which made Odin make him unworthy) cost half the life in the universe and reverts to a drunken idiot who can barely keep himself together even after 5 years and a plan to reverse the snap is presented he is reluctant and boderline useless and scared to attempt to retrieve the stones he needs a pep talk from his mommy... hell even Cap is able to pull himself together as he also lost his world through being frozen for 70 years and Bucky dying being his last steand from his previous life

Superman is a far less flawed character than Thor its not really debatable and its not that I favor Superman it makes him a far less interesting character than Thor he's very boring

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stumerica

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@mr_shazam0920: He was controlled by the ALF in that instance, so it wasn't of his free will.

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stumerica

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Mr_Shazam0920

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@marvelanddcfan24:

He was suffering from PTSD and guilt. That’s what happens to people. After his pep talk from his mom he reverted back to being the Thor we know and love.

Is Thor the only one who gets pep talks from his parents? Clark gets one in every movie he’s in.

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Erkan12

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@stumerica: I guess he meant that not every hero should be worthy, as we know that not even Iron man could lift it despite being a hero who saved millions of people by sacrificing his life in the battle of New York.

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Boby501

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Probably not.

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Shinne

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#31  Edited By Shinne

@erkan12: Hush, last time we met, you said I was the biggest troll on this site and not worth your time. I mean, it's better if things stay that way, because the feeling is mutual. I already said that not everyone's gonna agree with that specific statement, and you're proving my point. Magic or physics, they all must have limit. The thing with Mjolnir is it gets heavier to the point that people who are not worthy can't lift it, but how heavy can it get? We don't know, comic Hulk would be able to lift MCU Mjolnir with sheer strength by feats, without using "muh magic" NLF.

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MarvelandDCfan24

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@mr_shazam0920: I'm just saying I think the enchanment has more to do with Thor being Thor than being "worthy" as people have only been worthy to weild the hammer after Thor is about to die Thor 1 Odin noticing Thors sacrifice and EG when Cap saves Thor

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stumerica

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Mr_Shazam0920

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@stumerica:

Where did I say Clark wasn’t worthy?

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Mr_Shazam0920

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@marvelanddcfan24:

Full disclosure I’m not saying Clark isn’t worthy. He probably is. He is willing to throw his life on the line to save everyone and has proven it many times.But he’s not a perfect specimen. He has his flaws as well.

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Ready_4_Madness

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#36  Edited By Ready_4_Madness

@stumerica: Stark is the most heroic superhero in the MCU and he’s not worthy. I don’t think Clark would be able to lift it because he hasn’t done much.

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Ghostodoofus2

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I know comic Superman could, he did in the JLA/Avengers crossover. The DCEU Superman, lololol very likely not.

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GateOfBabylon

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I know comic Superman could, he did in the JLA/Avengers crossover. The DCEU Superman, lololol very likely not.

Comic Superman couldn't either. The enchantment had to be lifted for him to use it.

OT; Hell no.

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Emperorb777

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MAZAHS117

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MoS/BvS Clark, I highly doubt it.

Justice League Clark, I would say can.

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kidchipotle

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DCEU Superman wouldn't be able to even make it budge. Dude is trash.

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Transformers1024

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Didn't he let his father die and murder half a city?

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deactivated-5d66fff565c2e

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DCEU Superman wouldn't be able to even make it budge. Dude is trash.

Didn't he let his father die and murder half a city?

You two due for honeymoon soon?

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Ready_4_Madness

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@emperorb777: Stark saved the world twice and the entire universe once yet he isn’t worth. Yes Clark hasn’t done much. I don’t even know what makes Thor worthy over Stark honestly.

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Emperorb777

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#45  Edited By Emperorb777

@ready_4_madness: That's nice and all but you said Clark hasn't done much and he saved the world 3 times.

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thanosii

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@ready_4_madness: Clark also brought the time stone to Thanos and refused to return half the universe at the same time as when they died to save only his daughter. He is more selfish than any hero

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Ready_4_Madness

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@thanosii: Thor and Captain America have also done selfish things. In your opinion what makes Cap and Thor more worthy than Stark.

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Ready_4_Madness

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#48  Edited By Ready_4_Madness

@emperorb777: that isn’t much considering the fact that someone who saved the entire universe isn’t worthy.

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Shinne

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#49  Edited By Shinne

@thanosii said:

@ready_4_madness: Clark also brought the time stone to Thanos and refused to return half the universe at the same time as when they died to save only his daughter. He is more selfish than any hero

He sacrificed himself to save mankind, twice... The same mankind that absolutely DESPISE him. At least public loves Iron Man and The Avengers. How is that selfish in any way? He's never even done anything remotely selfish. You're just hating for no reason.

Edit: It seems like you're talking about Stark, not Clark. Either way, I don't see how he's selfish in any way. He's just normal.