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#1 Edited by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

I was discussing the issue with a fellow viner on another thread with ares and he was pretty consistent on DCEU ares only being able to be killed by a god, Even going as far as saying that full gauntlet Thanos couldn't kill ares. I do remember that being stated in the movie, but how accurate is it?

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#2 Posted by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@luminoushydra I'm pretty sure Ares can't solo all of MCU bar asgard. Or even including thor and stuff since they arent really Gods.

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#3 Posted by MrTrey (552 posts) - - Show Bio

The only case for him not to be killable through the IG is if you consider him to be similar to Enchantress and her brother, since their bodies were destroyed but they continued to exist in a non-physical form that could posses people, so you might need some metaphysical juice to permanently kill them.

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#4 Posted by eri123 (1711 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos doesn't need the gauntlet to defeat Ares.

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#5 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12883 posts) - - Show Bio

I don’t see why not. NLF is real

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#6 Posted by ByondEon (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos snaps

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#7 Posted by TheSpartanB345T (4400 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao no.

NLFs don't mean anything.

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#8 Posted by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

What does NLF mean

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#9 Posted by RandomGuy287 (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety said:

What does NLF mean

no limits fallacy

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#10 Posted by JimJaspers20675 (306 posts) - - Show Bio
@pkety said:

What does NLF mean

No limit's Fallacy, IE: Saitama can never be hurt or injured because he's never been shown to. Or he has the power of the Big Bang. Also Ywach's almighty if you're familiar with Bleach anime / manga.

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#11 Posted by MetalJimmor (6579 posts) - - Show Bio

Just because nothing in the DCEU can kill a god doesn't mean nothing from any fictional universe can do it.

Also Steppenwolf was a New God and he got his butt kicked by Superman and was badly injured by Aquaman, neither of which are gods. Though I guess you could argue Steppenwolf is more like Thor. An alien who calls himself a god because of his massive ego.

Still, I think it is safe to say Ares more meant "gods are too powerful for mortal beings to kill" not "we literally cannot take damage from anything but each other". A sufficiently powerful mortal being should be able to smack him around fine.

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#12 Posted by Subline (8708 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah he's too stronk.

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#13 Posted by LuminousHydra (945 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: @byondeon: @mazahs117: @mrtrey: @pkety:

First you need to explain to me why character statements don't work in the DCEU but work for the MCU. When it is said that Thor takes the force of a star, you all assume that it is an actual star with similar properties. But when it is stated that Ares can't die to a non-god, why do you so biasedly say that it doesn't work that way.

Then there's the ridiculous hurrr durr NLF meme. Is it NLF to say that a ghost can't be hurt by DCEU superman because it is not tangible? Obviously not, but somehow this stupid logic works whenever it favors anti-DCEU sentiments.

I also see so much of mental gymnastics trying to twist the actual statement, it mean what it meant, plain and simple.

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#14 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12883 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: @byondeon: @mazahs117: @mrtrey: @pkety:

First you need to explain to me why character statements don't work in the DCEU but work for the MCU. When it is said that Thor takes the force of a star, you all assume that it is an actual star with similar properties. But when it is stated that Ares can't die to a non-god, why do you so biasedly say that it doesn't work that way.

Then there's the ridiculous hurrr durr NLF meme. Is it NLF to say that a ghost can't be hurt by DCEU superman because it is not tangible? Obviously not, but somehow this stupid logic works whenever it favors anti-DCEU sentiments.

I also see so much of mental gymnastics trying to twist the actual statement, it mean what it meant, plain and simple.

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#15 Edited by MetalJimmor (6579 posts) - - Show Bio

@luminoushydra:

The two statements are different.

The dwarf told us Thor was about to tank the force of a star. This is a finite statement that simply explains what is happening on-screen.

"Only a god can kill a god" is not a finite statement. Taking it at face value means even an omnipotent reality warper can't kill Ares so long as it doesn't fit the nebulous concept of a "god". This is what a No Limits Fallacy is. Taking a statement at face value even though the statement has never been truly tested against the forces being brought to bare in this vs debate.

It isn't mental gymnastics, it is just being pragmatic in debates with characters with all sorts of abilities with claims that never get tested. Like Itachi being able to stop "any attack" with the Yata Mirror.

Also it is hilarious that you think I am in any way an anti-DCEU poster.

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#16 Posted by Richubs (5736 posts) - - Show Bio

He would stomp Ares

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#17 Edited by Doofasa (2229 posts) - - Show Bio

He sure can. Even if you believe the NLF of "only a god can kill a god" he'd still get killed by Thanos, as he could just absorb Ares's lightning with the gauntlet and redirect it back at Ares. That way Ares is technically killing himself.

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#18 Posted by Heatforce (6408 posts) - - Show Bio

Nlf argument. I mean Supes stomped Steppenwolf who is a god.

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#19 Posted by shroudofsorrow (6007 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course Thanos can kill him with the full power of the IG. I love DCEU Ares and think he's often lowballed on the Vine, but he's never shown any resistance to reality warping/universe affecting power on the level of the IG, and there's therefore no reason to assume that he has any such resistance. Thanos would be able to snap him out of existence just fine.

Honestly, given how badly he stomped MCU Hulk at his peak, you could make the case that MCU Thanos without the stones could beat Ares.

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#20 Posted by Mrnoital (8139 posts) - - Show Bio

The ig definitely gives the power of a god, but there's no way to prove either way for sure(unless it didn't work on eternals)

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#21 Posted by Mutant1230 (6790 posts) - - Show Bio

The Infinity Gauntlet has shown to have reality warping capabilities well beyond Ares. Thanos should be able to snap

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#22 Posted by APEX_pretador (21292 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Heatforce (6408 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: He's not magic. Or I guess in this case he's not cosmic if that's a distinction.

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#24 Posted by APEX_pretador (21292 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: how do we make the distinction though?

On topic, Thanos killed a god on screen without the stones

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#25 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn’t Diana a demi-god? Which isn’t technically a god

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#26 Posted by Heatforce (6408 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: is loki a god though? That would imply frost giants are gods.

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#27 Posted by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by APEX_pretador (21292 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatforce: frost giants aren't god's but Loki isn't a generic frost giant.

Except one comment from Odin, which was him just being humble, everything indicates them being gods. Russo's also confirmed that Thor is a god.

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#30 Edited by Triplek (232 posts) - - Show Bio

@luminoushydra: your so dumb, Ares is not a good if Thor isn't.

Heck what does even being a god signify in the MCU or the dceu, even aunt may/superman can call themselves god's if they want to.

The star statement is definite , god statement is not as that would take into account your definition of God.

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#31 Posted by Heatforce (6408 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: well of course Thor is a god. His earlier movies about him being some kinda alien is what made the controversy.

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#32 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5218 posts) - - Show Bio

I think so. The infinity stones are aspects of existence separated during the Big Bang, way before Gods even existed.

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#33 Posted by Supermanthor (21373 posts) - - Show Bio

Lolololololol

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#34 Posted by Darkthunder (3147 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanos is the god of everything. He can easily

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#35 Posted by DaSalvadore (377 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap said it best "there's only one God."

I don't mean that in a religious sense (although he probably did) but in the metaphysical what people really think of when they consider the conceot of God. IE, the ultimately creator of whatever universe/reality you're talking about. Thor, Ares and everyone else are gods (little g!) which are a totally different type of beast.

So "only a god can kill another god" was obviously a statement about the little g gods. Those who are above normal mortal beings in some way. In battle terms it's "only an X-level buster can kill another X-level buster." Of course, to those who still want to argue otherwise, Diana isn't an actual god in that sense either. She's a demi-god who killed a god. So the statement is proven false within its own movie.

I'd say you could argue Thanos could beat Are without the IG. With the IG it's not even a match.

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#36 Posted by Skrskr (3693 posts) - - Show Bio

If thanos wanted to one shot him he could

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#37 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think the infinity stones can work on out of universe characters at all. The power stone blast could be applicable because it's energy projection. But I don't see a reason why the other stones would have an affect on DCEU characters other than speculation. The IG isn't multiversal and a full blast couldn't even stop stormbreaker. So it's power clearly has limits.

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#38 Posted by DaSalvadore (377 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

I don't think the infinity stones can work on out of universe characters at all. The power stone blast could be applicable because it's energy projection. But I don't see a reason why the other stones would have an affect on DCEU characters other than speculation. The IG isn't multiversal and a full blast couldn't even stop stormbreaker. So it's power clearly has limits.

It's not so much that the stones can't work on out of universe characters, it's that they can't work outside their own universe. By asking if character X can be beaten by anything to do with the stones or gauntlet, the question essentially presupposes that character X is in the reality of those stones. Otherwise it's like saying I have five Judas Bullets to kill Luke Cage but I don't have a gun to fire them and then asking if they can still kill him.

Your comment on the power stone's blast is a good one but I think it's far more a feat for Storm Breaker, though I do accept that it's debatable. Also, the stones never actually come with instant knowledge of their us. Thanos' true lack of reality warping with the stone isn't a negative on the reality stone, it's a negative on how he used the stone.

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#39 Posted by LuminousHydra (945 posts) - - Show Bio

@mazahs117:

Wow okay, so when I make an actual argument based on facts and logic the first thing you fanboys do is start posting stupid memes about baits in lieu of actually responding to my argument at hand? The fact that you can't even address any of my points show how devoid of any intellect you are. Not just you, any fanboy that begins an 'argument' by trying to undermine an interlocutors position my posting stupid edited gifs and memes are equally as deserving of holding the same description. This hasn't happened to me once, not even twice. I've gotten this same nonsensical responses from several of you trolls for posting an opinion that doesn't abide by the consensus of comicvine. I'm not even sure if there are many of you or if it's just one person with alts navigating through comicvine and stalking my posts, waiting for me to make one and then responding with dumb shit like that. Now if you instead actually tried to tackle my points like what normal viners have done, I would have no issue with you, even if you're wrong like saying that Thanos can kill Ares. The fact is that he can't because Ares explicitly stated that only gods can kill him and Thanos is not a god, even Loki says so at the beginning of IW. It appears that statements by characters are only taken into account when it suits a specific narrative, the MCU crowd would say that Thor took a full force of a star and Odin can beat Surtur but none of these are proven by on-screen feats and instead they are only told from a second-hand point of view. Yet the MCU crowd accepts it as true. They carry an inconsistent epistemological position by saying Ares statement is false and yet those are true because these statements all carry the same weight in that we can't verify their actual occurrence but rather accept that they are the way they are. If I were to, for instance, say Ares claim isn't true, it would also follow that Thor may have not taken the "full force of a star", we can't know if any of those words are individually true: 'full', 'force', and 'star', all of these words that form the whole sentence are therefore moot at best and any fan cals that even attempt to calculate things like the energy of the star, or even assuming it is a star can't be taken seriously, like my Ares claim then. But that isn't really the problem I have with people here. It's one thing to be wrong and it is another to actually troll people consistently over and over. The latter is plain immoral and distracts others from the conversation at hand. The primary problem is that it dilutes important conversation by causing people to address your illegitimate points instead of having real, intelligent talk like OP of this thread. Trolling is not funny, it should be an insta-bannable offence.

@metaljimmor:

Both are finite statements. You're disgustingly wrong when you say that an omnipotent can't defeat this god. An omnipotent is by definition, a God and therefore it is subjected to the same rule that "only gods can kill gods" and doesn't violate anything I just said. In fact, you're helping my argument.

You take the statement that Thor took the full force of a star at face value when there is no appropriate way we can actually verify the veracity of the claim but by going back on the statements made by the characters. Indeed I accept he took the full force of a star, in the same way I accept Ares' statement about killing gods.

That logic only works if no character has made a statement like Ares. If Ares said gods are near impossible to kill, I would never say IG thanos can't kill him (although an argument can be made that IG Thanos is weaker than Ares), but instead I would say that since we have never tested the limits of Ares' abilities, it's possible he can be killed by a debatably stronger character like ig thanos.

@triplek:
I don't respond to stupid insults.

Try again.

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#40 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@dasalvadore: So is stormbreaker universal+, or just some kind of Kryptonite to the stones? Because if they aren't even omnipotent in their own verse I don't see how "Thanos snaps" is a legitimate argument against characters not in their sphere of influence, unless you're talking energy projection.

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#41 Posted by DaSalvadore (377 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: I see that scene as a mix of Strombreaker being powerful and Thanos underestimating the axe/some PiS to allow for the big "hero is about to lose at the last" scene (since Thanos follows the classic hero arc in IW). He was routinely shown to turn weapons into bubbles except against Stormbreaker where he suddenly uses an energy blast.

I'm going to guess that Stormbreaker ends up being able to easily handle any of the basic energy attacks we've seen in the MCU, probably easily handle blasts from the stones themselves when not in the gauntlet and being a suped-up Mjolnir in regards to energy/electricity attacks.

The problem with Stormbreaker is the problem with Thor. It's not coherent what power comes from the weapon and what comes from the god.

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#42 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@dasalvadore: I think a case can be made stormbreaker has some form of resistance to the IG because it was made at the same forge. But it could of just been Thanos underestimating it's strength, as he quite frankly jobbed with the stones throughout the whole movie. Or perhaps he's not really omnipotent with the stones but just given a small degree of power over the various forces.

Either way, I don't see the snap working on out of universe characters. Only power projection with the stones would be applicable.

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#43 Posted by DaSalvadore (377 posts) - - Show Bio
@ipvman said:

Either way, I don't see the snap working on out of universe characters. Only power projection with the stones would be applicable.

Why? The stones affect their native reality not just people from their native reality. This isn't Kryptonite which only affect the Kryptonians born on that specific Krypton. If you're in a reality where there are Infinity Stones then the Infinity Stones are able to impact your existence. It was even proved during Hickman's Fantastic Four run during the Council of Reeds vs Mad Celestials scene.

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#44 Posted by Rijehu (1834 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on which half of the population he's on lol.

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#45 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@dasalvadore: Ares isn't native to the stones reality. Thanos didn't have mastery over the gauntlet, the snap was completely random. I don't read comics and I'm not sure how that's relevant here, but as far as I know the IG isn't multiversal in comics either.

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#46 Posted by DaSalvadore (377 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

@dasalvadore: Ares isn't native to the stones reality. Thanos didn't have mastery over the gauntlet, the snap was completely random. I don't read comics and I'm not sure how that's relevant here, but as far as I know the IG isn't multiversal in comics either.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying the IG is multiversal, I'm saying the IG affects everything within its native universe. If Ares is in the universe that the IG and stones came from then he automatically gets affected by them unless he naturally has anti-reality warping abilities. It's how they work.

I'll compare it to a basic real-world situation. State A doesn't care if you live in State B. If State A says you have to be 21 to drink or drive then you damn well better be 21 when you do either of those things when in State A regardless of if State B says you only have to be 18.

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#47 Edited by phillip33 (4461 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: in comicvine battles it is implied that the characters are placed in the same reality, so the infinity gauntlets “snap” effect would have no issue. You’re beating around the bush if you want to claim otherwise. It’s like saying thanos knocking hulk out doesn’t apply to thanos being able to KO Wonder Woman because she’s from a different universe

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#48 Posted by phillip33 (4461 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Edited by MetalJimmor (6579 posts) - - Show Bio

@luminoushydra:

Both are finite statements. You're disgustingly wrong when you say that an omnipotent can't defeat this god. An omnipotent is by definition, a God and therefore it is subjected to the same rule that "only gods can kill gods" and doesn't violate anything I just said. In fact, you're helping my argument.

This is wrong. Not all omnipotent beings are classified as gods just like all gods aren't necessarily omnipotent. I could very well write a story where my omnipotent being is just a very advanced alien that has discovered the secrets of the universe. However he isn't a god.

There are no rules of classification that exist across all fiction. Every writer may choose how they classify their characters.

You take the statement that Thor took the full force of a star at face value when there is no appropriate way we can actually verify the veracity of the claim but by going back on the statements made by the characters. Indeed I accept he took the full force of a star, in the same way I accept Ares' statement about killing gods.

The issue is the statement about killing gods has no limit. It doesn't take under consideration beings from outside the setting because Ares can't possibly know about entities that don't exist within his world like Galactus. He may not know about Darkseid even within the DCEU, though if you argue Darkseid is a god then so is his uncle Steppenwolf, and we saw him get his butt kicked by Superman. Which automatically disproves Ares' claim.

That logic only works if no character has made a statement like Ares. If Ares said gods are near impossible to kill, I would never say IG thanos can't kill him (although an argument can be made that IG Thanos is weaker than Ares), but instead I would say that since we have never tested the limits of Ares' abilities, it's possible he can be killed by a debatably stronger character like ig thanos.

The issue is Ares has never come across anything close to the infinite gauntlet, which has a feat that is universal in scale and functions as a reality warping power. Ares can't know definitively that he'd survive being erased by Thanos, and he has no feats that suggest he could. Therefore the safest assumption is that he couldn't survive it.

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#50 Posted by Amonfire1776 (3174 posts) - - Show Bio

Why should we even believe Ares claim...he said all sorts of untrue things regardless and what exactly counts as a god and what doesn't count as a god?