Better Hulk run so far? Greg Pak or Al Ewing?

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Edited By FFS91  Online

Poll Better Hulk run so far? Greg Pak or Al Ewing? (26 votes)

Greg Pak 42%
Al Ewing 50%

I know Al Ewing's Immortal Hulk is still going, but so far, who's hulk run is better? Pak's or Ewing?

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blackspidey2099

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Easily Ewing imo, Park’s run isn’t all that great after WWH.

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Immortal hulk is the best hulk run of all time.

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#3  Edited By TakenStew22  Online

I just started reading Immortal Hulk but so far it's one of my favorite runs. Pak is good but Ewing just transforms Banners world into something even more green and special.

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I just started reading Immortal Hulk but so far it's one of my favorite runs. Pak is good but Ewing just transforms Banners world into something even more green and special.

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#6  Edited By adamTRMM

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

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I think they're both equally good. I'll vote for Pak but it's purely out of nostalgia, I can't say one is really better than the other.

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IMO Al Ewing run has a lot more qualities based on it's literature value. But not going to lie i just had so much more fun reading Greg Pak's run. I doubt i am ever going to re-read Ewing's run.

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Immortal Hulk easy- best Hulk run.

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#11  Edited By TakenStew22  Online

@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

I don't exactly see how this is bad. We never really had a true definition of Marvel's Devil before this.

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@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

Ehhhhhh.....

No Caption Provided

And yes, it was by Ewing and Aaron.

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@takenstew22 said:

@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

I don't exactly see how this is bad. We never really had a true definition of Marvel's Devil before this.

Yes and no. Marvel indeed never truly defined what the "True Devil" would be, but each writer had their own take on it.

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TakenStew22

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#14 TakenStew22  Online

@andromeda101: Yeah, but I personally love this one. Even if it is weird that the whole gamma thing is a part of Hell.

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#15 Zetsu-San  Online

@andromeda101: Yeah, but I personally love this one. Even if it is weird that the whole gamma thing is a part of Hell.

Yea, it felt very “Color Out of Space”. I just wish his fight with Hypnos was better. I feel like Hypnos should have trashed Hulk, only for the Green Door to appear and Hypnos walk through it out of curiosity.

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#16 BreakOfDawn  Online

Ewing, though the TOBA is seriously cringeworthy and unnecessary. Plus, the name is kind of stupid.

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#17  Edited By Thor-Parker

It's hard to judge, especially because Ewing's run hasn't finished, even then I'm behind in the book, I have only read #1-25. That said, I feel like Ewing's has more artistical value and more thought put behind its story, whereas Greg Pak's run is more bombastic fun and action.

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#18 TakenStew22  Online

Ewing, though the TOBA is seriously cringeworthy and unnecessary. Plus, the name is kind of stupid.

I mean, he's literally the one below all. Basically TOAA's opposite.

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#19  Edited By BreakOfDawn  Online

@takenstew22: Like I said, the name is pretty stupid. It’s like saying “you’re called Superior? Well I’m called Inferior!” Plus, the little speech he had where he paralleled TOAA was just painful to read. Should have gone with a less “omnipotent bad guy” vibe for a character like the Hulk.

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andromeda101

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Pretty sure the whole gimmick between TOBA and TOAA is inspired in the Kabbalah, hence why the name.

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@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

This is such a silly breakdown that it comes of as nothing more than a whine.

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#22  Edited By Underfire47
@breakofdawn said:

@takenstew22: Like I said, the name is pretty stupid. It’s like saying “you’re called Superior? Well I’m called Inferior!” Plus, the little speech he had where he paralleled TOAA was just painful to read. Should have gone with a less “omnipotent bad guy” vibe for a character like the Hulk.

As @andromeda101 said the whole TOAA, TOBA thing is heavily inspired by the Qabbalah which is why things like Qliphoth, Thaumiel, Geburah, Golachab, etc.. are mentioned directly in Immortal Hulk

No Caption Provided

It is also why the names The One Above All and The One Below All make perfect sense and fit directly into it. This isn't just simple "Oh we have someone above everything, what if we had someone below everyone durrr", the name has a lot more meaning behind it.

The speech where TOBA parallels TOAA is also pretty spot on, TOAA's speech was written first in the Ultimates by Ewing to begin with, so this is an idea he has had for quite a while and it's actually good to see how the 2 characters mirror each other perfectly.

You can criticize how such a being is way too much to be a Hulk villain and i would agree, i think Ewing went way overboard there, but i don't see what's exactly "cringey" about TOBA, this isn't by no means a simple idea and it actually took me some time to understand everything that Ewing wrote and meant especially in the Hell arc, for anyone that's interested there is a good video that breaks it all down, the whole meaning is a lot deeper than the surface level criticism i am seeing from some people(you can skip around 12 min mark if you are only interested in the breaking down of the whole Hell arc and what all those terms from Qabbalah mean)

Loading Video...

The way I've seen it so far most of the criticism is just based on people being upset Hulk got such a powerful antagonist and from there they just say the whole idea is "cringey" or whatever, but i just don't see it.

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#23  Edited By adamTRMM

@andromeda101 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

Ehhhhhh.....

No Caption Provided

And yes, it was by Ewing and Aaron.

Hahaha I guess being predictable and obvious is a profession nowadays. Where's this from?

@underfire47 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

This is such a silly breakdown that it comes of as nothing more than a whine.

Did me offending you little cult made you whine about me whining? So cute...

@takenstew22 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

I don't exactly see how this is bad. We never really had a true definition of Marvel's Devil before this.

For starters, devil isn't an anti-god. That's a kind of post-Christian development. THE God is all of it together. "Lexenberg" had the closest idea - "if god is all powerful, he cannot be all good, and if he's all good, he cannot be all powerful." Good can bring evil, and evil can bring good. This is the epitome of "God works in mysterious ways." Hence, OAA is all of that, which makes a poorly thought out derivative like OBA an unnecessary, even excessive, a laughable brainfart.

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#24 BreakOfDawn  Online
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@adamtrmm said:
@andromeda101 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

Ehhhhhh.....

No Caption Provided

And yes, it was by Ewing and Aaron.

Hahaha I guess being predictable and obvious is a profession nowadays. Where's this from?

@underfire47 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

This is such a silly breakdown that it comes of as nothing more than a whine.

Did me offending you little cult made you whine about me whining? So cute...

@takenstew22 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

I don't exactly see how this is bad. We never really had a true definition of Marvel's Devil before this.

For starters, devil isn't an anti-god. That's a kind of post-Christian development. THE God is all of it together. "Lexenberg" had the closest idea - "if god is all powerful, he cannot be all good, and if he's all good, he cannot be all powerful." Good can bring evil, and evil can bring good. This is the epitome of "God works in mysterious ways." Hence, OAA is all of that, which makes a poorly thought out derivative like OBA an unnecessary, even excessive, a laughable brainfart.

nah bruh before christianism existed there was already zoroastrism so yeah the idea of a god of evil is older than you think prob

on topic i like ewing a lot more, but Pak is quite epic and has good moments and tbh good metaphors

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Ewing overall.

Ewing is redefining Hulk’s lore to a greater extent, honing in on the psychological aspects while blending in some cosmic concepts and returning Hulk to his mysterious/dark roots. The “craft” of his run is also better.

Pak, on the other hand was more focused on Hulk as a superhero, building out Hulk’s family, turning Bruce and Hulk into the heroes they could/should have always been while also including lots of epic bombast and stories. Pak’s run is all about the heart. Pak’s run is phenomenal and easily a close second place to Ewing imo.

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nah bruh before christianism existed there was already zoroastrism so yeah the idea of a god of evil is older than you think prob

Technically true, as far as dichotomic concepts go at least. But within the idea of "one true god" that monotheism represent, the early Judaism clearly didn't have the devil that is god's opposite like say Angra Maniyu was to Ahura Mazda in Zoroastrianism. In Judaic conception, the devil operates within the realm of god himself, when in Zoroastrianism they are separate entities. While Judaic god has a natural inclination to kindness, which he also encourages according to the script, he isn't shying away from committing unambiguously cruel acts as punishment. One Above All (and his executor - LT) was fitting that idea far more than say Ahura Mazda.

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#28  Edited By christianrapper

Let’s wait until we see where this goes before we decide. I like WWH the most but I am biased of course. That’s my favorite version of hulk. However, we already know where that goes. I want to see where Ewing ends up.

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#30  Edited By Underfire47
@adamtrmm said:
@andromeda101 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

Ehhhhhh.....

No Caption Provided

And yes, it was by Ewing and Aaron.

Hahaha I guess being predictable and obvious is a profession nowadays. Where's this from?

@underfire47 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

This is such a silly breakdown that it comes of as nothing more than a whine.

Did me offending you little cult made you whine about me whining? So cute...

@takenstew22 said:
@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

I don't exactly see how this is bad. We never really had a true definition of Marvel's Devil before this.

For starters, devil isn't an anti-god. That's a kind of post-Christian development. THE God is all of it together. "Lexenberg" had the closest idea - "if god is all powerful, he cannot be all good, and if he's all good, he cannot be all powerful." Good can bring evil, and evil can bring good. This is the epitome of "God works in mysterious ways." Hence, OAA is all of that, which makes a poorly thought out derivative like OBA an unnecessary, even excessive, a laughable brainfart.

Except that's what TOBA is, he is specifically based on pre-Christian development, which was all about the mirror opposites, about everything having a shell or a shadow of itself. This is why i called this "silly" at best, i suggest you check out the video i posted above it breaks it down for people that are not familiar with Qabbalah.

@adamtrmm: Did me offending you little cult made you whine about me whining? So cute...

I mean it's hard to be offended by something so wildly incorrect in it's premise, amused for sure, but yea before the perpetual whining continues more i think you should try understanding why Ewing is actually trying to do here rather than going "duh one is above everything therefore the other one is below everything, this is a simplistic brainfart from Ewing, i am smart".

This is all so silly, TOAA rarely ever makes appearances in the comics but when he does it's always regarding something good or positive, he has NEVER committed a cruel act of punishment, LT is his own separate thing here i mean he appeared almost 10 years before TOAA was ever even mentioned in the comics. The idea of Marvel having it's ultimate Satan is something that's been floating around for decades, multiple other writers had their own ideas on it but NO ONE explored it to the level of Ewing.

There is nothing preventing TOAA and TOBA working in Marvel given how Ewing has laid out the groundwork for it, Hulk himself inside this concept(and referring specifically to Devil Hulk) represents the Jungian shadow

No Caption Provided

He is more like John Miltons Satan from Paradiso Lost or Kali from Hinduism, he is the destroyer but destruction is creation, he is Banners inverse but not his opposite more like in the way EVERYTHING contains it's negation. Hulk is basically Satan in this context while TOBA is the Devil. The highest point on tree of life is Keter which is the unity of the Divine while the lowest point is Thamiel which represents duality of forces that destroy one another(TOBA and Hulk, Devil and Satan), TOBA = mindless destruction for the sake of destruction, Devil Hulk = Gods righteous destruction an angel of wrath casting judgement, the worldbreaker, the Hulk is meant to judge humanity in Ewings story and what he chooses to do in the end will determine if Hulk will be a force of Hell or a force of righteous anger.

This is still only scratching the surface of the whole thing but this explains why Ewings TOAA/TOBA idea is such a good idea, because it works perfectly for the context of the story and it's not a "brain fart", in the way some Cates ideas honestly feel like brainfars like recently revealing that Knull has a "light" version of himself because why not and i guarantee you that idea wont be as deeply explored as it is with Immortal Hulk.

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@ffs91: I like them for different reasons. Paks run was bombastic, it was more straightforward, it was a simple revenge story with great execution that later on turned into stories more closely exploring Hulks family.

Ewing run is definitely exploring more complex ideas, but i don't think it's fair to pick which one i like more before this run is over, after that i can give me definitive answer on it.

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#34  Edited By Zetsu-San  Online

@adamtrmm said:
@asgardianweapon said:

nah bruh before christianism existed there was already zoroastrism so yeah the idea of a god of evil is older than you think prob

Technically true, as far as dichotomic concepts go at least. But within the idea of "one true god" that monotheism represent, the early Judaism clearly didn't have the devil that is god's opposite like say Angra Maniyu was to Ahura Mazda in Zoroastrianism. In Judaic conception, the devil operates within the realm of god himself, when in Zoroastrianism they are separate entities. While Judaic god has a natural inclination to kindness, which he also encourages according to the script, he isn't shying away from committing unambiguously cruel acts as punishment. One Above All (and his executor - LT) was fitting that idea far more than say Ahura Mazda.

Perhaps the "One Below All" isn't actually the opposite of TOAA, but just another creation that took that name out of spite and/or to make himself seem grander and more powerful than he actually is?

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@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

blame Marvel. Pak wanted a completely different WWH run than what we got

Is it though ? Theres plenty of all powerful entities hell look at Thor with the black winter

I beg to differ. The point of Toaa was to be literal

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Pak's run, as has been said earlier, is more bombastic epic action and badassery, while Ewing's is a supernatural very complex horror story with hulk elements. They're not too comparable as they run in different lanes, or at least different levels of complexity. As far as personal enjoyment, no hulk run beats pak's run for me but ewing's is an incredibly close second, it'd be nigh impossible as a hulk fan to not give immortal hulk the credit as easily one of the best hulk runs of all time.

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I've read the first issue of Ewing's run. Hoping to like it.

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I haven’t read Immortal Hulk, but I did enjoy Paks run

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#40 warlock360  Online

Immortal Hulk is awesome and shines light on what used to be.

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Ewing

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#42 FFS91  Online

@god_spawn can you fix the typo? I wrote Grek pag instead of Greg Pak.

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Ewing's run for me. Pak's run was awesome, but betrayal, revenge, famiky, etc, etc, it brought very little new stuff.

Ewing brought a whole new dimension to Hulk

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#45 god_spawn  Moderator
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Necrogod

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Ewing brought out the real potential of Hulk and associating Hulk with magic and implying that he's some sort of an aspect of a demonic entity was so cool. Ewing did Hulk justice more than any other writer IMO.

Not saying Pak was bad though.

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Torrentio

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@adamtrmm said:

Pak, even though many times it was devolving into a fanboyish fanfiction zone, it was 90% of times entertaining and solid still.

Next, you have this imbecilic idea like One Below All that drags on forever and is so tacky and cringey it makes me chuckle. What's next, Finity? The Dead Tribunal? I got one, the Subterraneans as the conuter-Celestials! I'm so creative.

One Above All was never supposed to be literal you dweeb.

Wow. So much salt :D