Best Stuff in Comics This Week: 9-26-16

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deactivated-1351355

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@doc-holiday: and that is the problem with All rip off all PC Marvel

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Doc-Holiday

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@doc-holiday: and that is the problem with All rip off all PC Marvel

Yep, PC means making heroes into various minorities but villains can stay white. Equality, right?

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: Yep true "equality" means making the greatest symbol of American Patriotism into a Nazi (Hydra) spy and his PC replacement into a whiny PC pushing douche.

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Doc-Holiday

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@doc-holiday: Yep true "equality" means making the greatest symbol of American Patriotism into a Nazi (Hydra) spy and his PC replacement into a whiny PC pushing douche.

Well, that still isn't as bad as when Marvel allowed an Islamic artist to hide Anti-Jewish and Anti-Christian messages in the work he was doing for them. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/x-men-gold-1-marvel-anti-semitic-anti-christian-indonesia-jakarta-artist-a7676276.html

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Drake_pendragon

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#56  Edited By Drake_pendragon

@doc-holiday: Yeah but that is the newest thing and the guy got fired when Marvel figured it out, they still haven't fiexed Hydra Cap or Icequeen. Seriously there is SOOO Much that Marvel has to fix. I would love to see them (after Secret Empire) sit down and realize how their sales have droppend and look at fixes like getting rid of garbage like kamala Khan, Miles Morales, Rere Williams, Squirrel girl, and Moon girl take Sam WIlson and have him stop being an SJW tool and go back to being Falcon and send the new version back to Mexico wher he is from (admitted that he came here illegally in one of Sam Wilson's books) and have him and his family pushed back to Mexico where he becomes a hero in Mexico trying to stop cartels from that side of the border. Take Amadeus CHo and turn him back into just being Amadeus Cho 7th (or 8th) smartest person on the planet and bring back Bruce banner as the Hulk. Have Tony come back and have him and Doom talk about the good that Dood was doing as Infamous Iron Man but have TOny explain that Doom should continue doing good but be recognized as doing it for himself not as Iron man. Have Carol step back to being Ms. Marvel and then either create a new character to be Captain Marvel, have Monica Rambeau step back into it or bring Mar-vel back from the dead and take the mantle back.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Appabend, Mundane Matt and Comics&Diversity on youtube cover that pretty well. Marvel has been slowly reverting back to normal but they're still trying to hang onto the SJW crowd despite the fact that they don't read comics. I think Marvel may eventually return to normal but the damage is done and they will lose readers forever.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: I've listened to all 3 of those guys on YT, funny that you mention them. I think they still have the opportunity to bring back some of the classics but they have to make it big that they kill off a lot of the PC characters. I think that if they let it leak that they are killing Miles, Rere and Kamala in one swoop (especially since they could do it during Secret Empire) maybe even killing the new (Illegal immigrant) Falcon then I think that would upset the liberal snowflakes enough to create a storm that would get people like me to buy that comic. Then during the end have them use the cosmic cube to undo a lot of the garbage that has been done!!!! Perfect ending to Secret Empire. Then they can cut the number of comics they are putting out and focus on quality over quantity. I say they drop to 22 books that would allow for quality over quantity. I would suggest:

1) Amazing Spider-man

2) Captain America

3) X-Men (after they get everyone back to normal)

4) Thor

5) Deadpool

6) Dr. Strange

7) The Avengers

8) Fantastic Four

9) Moon Knight

10) Jessica Jones

11) Luke Cage and Iron Fist

12) Mosaic

13) Luke Cage

14) Iron Fist

15) DareDevil

16) Doom (to replace Infamous Iron man)

17) Iron Man

18) Hulk

19) Guardians of the Galaxy

20) Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider

21) Venom

22) Star Wars

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Thing is. They don't care. Unless it's going to impact merchandise and movie ticket sales, they won't change. While sales are garbage, every time they put out a new Transgender Africa-American Muslim Man who also identifies as a Dalmatian on the weekends, they get high praise from the SJW snowflakes because it's "progressive".

It doesn't matter that those same snowflakes won't read it. Marvel is counting on good PR from reviews from some hipster on Jezebel or Vox. Some beta-male whose only interaction with a woman is when his female supervisor tells him not to mansplain about why their web traffic is down.

Marvel is a burning, sinking and exploding ship. I jumped aboard Image a long time ago.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: That is the problem, they get praised by people who don't buy the comics and are losing the people who used to buy the comics and that is tanking their business. I still don't know anyone I trust with reviews that has given any of the SJW comics a good review. The sad thing is that if they would stop go to a few reviews on YouTube, or stop in on sites like this and read the commentary or hell ask a few fans. I've mentioned a few times that Secret Empire is the perfect time to fix the problems with current Marvel have them use the cosmic cube to bring back Tony Stark and have him take back his tech from Rere and talk with Doom about how Stark appreciates the good that he has been doing but that Doom should be recognized for his actions as Doom and not Iron Man and they can create a Doom comic instead of "Infamous Iron Man", Have Sam give back the shield to Steve and go back to being Falcon and have them deport the illegal immigrant version (or have him get killed), undo the Terrigan Mist (removing Kamala Khan), undo Secret Wars (removing Miles), Undo the killing of Banner and give the Hulk back to him and away from Cho, and Undo the mind screw that Jean did turning Bobby Drake homosexual (which if they undo it on the teen version the adult version will be fixed also). Then they have Zarathos and Blaze come back and finish the job they started on Reyes by destroying the ghost of the serial killer that Reyes has getting rid of that version of ghost rider. Next you have Carol realize she doesn't deserve the title of Captain (she's called Major a number of times but she is no longer part of the Military and she didn't retire so she shouldn't be called by any rank...but that is me being Military finding issues) Marvel and return to being Ms. Marvel. have the cancer finally kill Jane Foster then have the Hammer stuck somewhere like the bottom of the Ocean and have Thor continue to work towards becoming worthy (I'd say at least another year where he is wielding Jarnbjorn and then have him be in a battle that is so epic that he finally proves his worthiness and have the hammer go to him at the last second before whoever the villain is deals the death blow. Finally find a way to bring back Wolverine and have X-23 willingly give back the title of Wolverine because IT'S NOT HER CODE NAME!!!!! Have OML and Logan have issues. So right there I've fixed the top 5 major players (Spider-man, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk) along with Ms. Marvel and Iceman and Wolverine.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Won't happen. Marvel won't get rid of characters unless they are horrible. You may have heard they canceled the new Black Panther & The Crew series after only 2 issues (but will do a full release for fans who want it, it'll be a limited series of like 8 issues I think, which seems fair to people who went out and bought the first two, closure, plus, Marvel are the ones who messed up). They tried it before with similar effects years ago. Marvel and the SJW crowd may not want to admit but they don't have as big a black demographic as they would like to think and honestly, their recent attempts have just been pathetic; robo-police who kill all black people...oh wow, it's so gritty and political, I wonder what kind of message-alright we get it, police bad, all black people are innocent, jeez. Marvel is also always late to the SJW party. By the time a comic has been printed, the identity politics scene has changed.

BLM is a weak, racially motivated movement that got some traction after a few deaths (which were of thugs by police, Michael Brown was not spreading the word of Jesus, he had a sheet taller than the middle eastern man who he robbed before he was shot to death) but after the Chicago 4 it lost a lot of momentum and now mostly exists among radical racists.

Feminism is hated. Less than 20% of American women identify as feminist because it's become about gender superiority and division rather than unity through solving issues that women ACTUALLY face. So stuff like Female Thor and that horrific fight with Absorbing Man...well...it would not surprise me if their female reader base shrunk

The parade of people as they slowly replace each Avenger with a non-white counterpart has got to the point that no one can recognize Marvel and worse, the films, which probably bring in more viewership than the comics bring readership, still promote the classic characters so when someone goes to buy a comic for the first time and they see Miles, Falcon or Rere, they're going to either be confused or discouraged from reading comics.

I do agree that Marvel should do some major universe changing event and either drop the new characters in the Ultimate universe (or whichever universe that isn't the main one) and let them show up every now and then and return to the classics. Identity politics are divisive and essentially dead. Each group complains the other is their oppressor and they fight for the top of the heap. Marvel will never appease them and worse, never gain them as consumers.

They won't listen to youtubers or the fans though. They will, however, listen to their accountants and the financial reports they all receive when their comics sales go from relatively steady to plummeting. I like DC, they dipped a toe into the SJW pond and pulled it back in comparison to Marvel who skinny-dipped in the pond before realizing it was full of leeches.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday:

Well that is a perfect reason to kill off the PC agenda characters. Honestly I'm not saying they shouldn't give them proper ends because I think it's only right and fair to finish off a story (Black Panther and the Crew) even if you shorten it by a book or two as long as you tell the story and give it a proper ending, similar to how I hate when they have TV series that have a cliff hanger and don't get renewed for a second season, we as loyal customers deserve the closure of having the series ended properly. Like I said if they kill off Miles and undo the Terrigan Mist you now have gotten rid of Miles and you can have him sacrifice himself to save Steve Rogers basically making up for the vision that Ulysses had of him killing Steve and establishing that he isn't a killer. And without the Terrigan Mist you no longer have Kamala Khan thus allowing her to going back to being a teenager (hell do an epilogue book for all the characters where each gets a 1 page thing talking about how they move on). Hell having Carol make the self-realization that she can't live up to the title of Captain Marvel and going back to her actual moniker is awesome it teaches the lesson that you can try but you will not always succeed but at least try.

I don’t think it’s an issue of not having the black demographic because back in the day when Rhodes stepped into the Iron Man suit people liked it and it didn’t hurt sales because it made sense, they used an established character who would know how to work the suit and he didn’t play the politics game about it. Also I don’t believe that it’s about the race of the characters because I’m white and I love Mosaic so far, he’s original, he’s fun, but Marvel isn’t giving him the proper attention, they are too busy focusing on PC agenda characters who stole their identities. I also loved Cloak and Dagger back in the day, and I feel like they got the same treatment that Mosaic is currently getting.

I agree BLM is a weak(racist), racially motivated (segregationist) movement. The deaths it got it’s “traction” were of criminals as you stated (but you forgot to mention that Brown also assaulted the cop that told him to get on the sidewalk because he was walking in the street).

Yep, feminism (feminazism) is hated.

Studies show that Marvel is keeping itself alive because of the movies which show the real versions of the characters. They are losing more readers because 1) the comics are so far from what people started reading and they are pushing the SJW agenda that older readers don’t like we are leaving and 2) they are attracting people with the movies but when the comics don’t seem to match the movies the movie fans are shaking their head and asking “who the hell is this guy/gal?”

I think that they need to kill these PC characters because the idea of the “Secret Wars” event was to delete all the other Universes. Though I wouldn’t be against Franklin Richards creating a Universe to put them in. I do think it needs to be in the Secret Empire ending (last 2-3 issues) because I think that a lot of people are getting tired of the events. But I think they need to have a good way to have Sam Wilson step down and go back to being Falcon. Though I feel they did a disservice to Sam by making him Cap in the first place since he was already a hero he shouldn’t need to take over Steve’s mantle to validate himself, they could have easily stopped printing Captain America comics for a while and just printed Falcon comics and give him the shield then you build him up and you make people actually miss Captain America comics.

Their failure to listen to fans (or be actual fans themselves) is why they keep sliding down the hill of failure rather than climbing the mountain of success. They can’t relate to the heroes they are writing/drawing, and thus they are telling crap stories.

I haven’t started reading DC stuff again since they started the New 52 but I’ve heard great things about Rebirth, though I would like to see them undo the race bending of Wally West even though they brought the real version back (calling him the black versions “cousin” is stupid). I’m hoping that once they do the Watchmen crossover they fix that issue. Honestly I download comics to keep up and watch YT videos and if the comics ever get better I will end up buying them again. As a kid I had a subscription to Spider-man comics and I got ALL of them anything that had him in it I paid for, but now I download Amazing because it’s Peter and I’ll download the upcoming Peter Parker Spectacular series, but I will not give Marvel any money until they get rid of their SJW crap

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Valid points but Marvel sits in a strange place; If they drop the PC characters, even one of them, they run the risk of the leftist media screeching at them that they are racist. They already got hate for dropping Black Panther & The Crew. They fear, as any company might, that doing another dramatic change back to the old characters would only result in bad public relations.

Ultimately, the best option would be a slow transition to where the characters are either removed or simply no longer appear in the Marvel universe. The way that many old characters no longer do.

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@doc-holiday: I disagree if they get rid of Miles by having the cosmic cube undoing Secret Wars then he is back in the Ultimate universe and they just aren't printing his stuff, so he would be available to pull from again if they decided too, just like Ben Reiley or Kane. If they undo the Terrigan Mist thing they get rid of Kamala and they do a final piece where they show her living a normal life. They undo she-thor by having her die from the cancer that has been killing her, and not having Thor just go and pick up the hammer right after having him work for it. Have it come out that Jean messed with Bobby's mind and have someone fix him, because I think everyone can agree that if you have one of the world's most powerful psychics messing around in your head they could implant ideas, especially since JEAN HAD NEVER SAW THAT IN HIS MIND IN 50 YEARS!!!!! Having Amadeus Cho freely give back the Hulk to Banner when he is returned shows character, he's still insanely smart so it isn't like they are just scrapping him, hell have him work with Stark when he returns so that it would make sense for Amadeus to get a suit of his own and become something similar to Rhodes so that if they get rid of Tony again for a while they could have Cho or Rhodes step in (people liked when Rhodes stepped in as Iron Man, so people claiming it's racism that causes people to not like Rere is stupid). When they put things right with Cap having him back to normal having Rhodes turn in the shield is great because this time Steve will not have need to turn it down as a Hydra plan. Moving illegal immigrant falcon to Mexico because he's an illegal would be great he can be whoever he wants down there and if they want they can have something where Steve or someone goes on vacation down there. Or they make him a villain trying to help illegals and then our heroes stop him.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Every few years, media outlets like Marvel do this. A handful of people who don't read comics whine about a lack of; black, asian, hispanic, female, etc. etc. characters until they get some tokens and then those tokens get spent like a similarly named item at an arcade and once their value is used up, no one wants them anymore.

These character won't be destroyed, they'll be shelved. Maybe dragged out now and then, considering the current political climate, the new Ms. Marvel (Kamala) will be dragged out every few weeks to have a "good Muslim" around, even though she is fictitious but they need something to cover up the dead bodies of all the westerners killed by angry Muslims.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: And there is why we have some of the problems at Marvel, seriously they have almost as many powered people in Marvel Universe as normal people it's getting to the point where there will be no normal people who need to be saved. Marvel needs to be willing to kill off their agenda characters to fix their Universe. Hell they need to kill off (and keep dead) a lot of the heroes. Honestly if they killed off 20% of the super powered characters in the Marvel Universe (Mutants, Inhumans, and other super powered folks) they could make things so much better. Also they need to reduce the number of comics put out to allow for writers and artists to focus on quality (Marvel is currently putting out something like 60 books a month, they need to drop that to about 30 a month). Honestly Kamala Khan being turned back into a normal kid would work out great, and it would allow Carol to realize she's not Captain Marvel and go back to being Ms. Marvel opening up for another character to be Captain Marvel they could make it a black woman...wait they already did that with Monica then they ditched it.... Yep people thought it was people being upset because it's a woman taking over the title but most of us would have been ok had it not been Carol since Carol has been Ms. Marvel for so long and has such history as Ms. Marvel that making her Captain Marvel made no sense. Honestly if they killed off the PC characters I could see their sales numbers flying and that would certainly shield them from a lot of the SJW BS.

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Doc-Holiday

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#67  Edited By Doc-Holiday

@drake_pendragon: I don't disagree, I am just thinking from a marketing stand point, not as a fan.

As a fan, mutants make no sense. For example;

Citizen: "Ah! It's wolverine, cyclops or storm! Look out, they're dangerous mutants!"

Citizen: "Yay! It's Spider-man, Daredevil, and Luke Cage, they're heroes!"

I hate that some are liked while others are hated. It makes no sense, the general public doesn't know all of their origin stories. Only we do. It's why I like that Fox owns the movie rights to the X-men. They only make sense when they're in their own universe.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: And there is another problem for Marvel, they are having Marketing not think like fans, but here is the thing fans are the one's buying the comics (or not buying them) so if fans don't like something then no matter how well you market it, it will not sell.

I agree 100% they need to either have people hate anyone with super powers (minus guys like Captain America) or ignore mutants, I understood it more when X-Men first started out and there weren't a lot of heroes heck even Spider-man got a lot of people not wanting to associate with him when he first started with his powers so it made sense now it's just stupid since everyone loves these people except the mutants and that is only when it's only when it's story driven otherwise they don't even notice the mutants.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: They're a company. I know it's not the answer you want but it's true.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: I understand that they are a company, but if a company makes 1000 of an item and only sells 50 units of the 1000 they made then that company is losing money and will die out from product failure. I realize that Marvel is currently able to suffer some level of loss due to Disney owning them, and the MCU (which uses primarily the top characters in their original versions not the PC versions) with the exception of the race bending of Mordo, and (race and gender of) the ancient one in Dr. Strange and they are apparently being playful with the age of Aunt May and a little weird with Peter giving him a best friend who is Asian (kind of how they have with Miles) in the upcoming movie, and the race change of Liz Allen (who is a dispensable character and will probably be gone in the 2nd movie because we would all rather see Peter with MJ or Gwen). So I hope they realize that these changes are killing their comics and they need to have the comics mirror the movies that are doing well and have the movies mirror the things that have already been in their comics, because they have a source material to work with, so use it.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Maybe but discussions about the comics being loss leaders have come up since Disney is footing the bill and I could imagine a company, these days, taking a hit on the chin for the sake of PR.

Your mention of Liz Allen is a good point; a disposable character, it's cheap PR to make her non-white and since Pete eventually ends up with MJ, after Gwen, there is no reason not to gain some points with the SJW crowd

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: And there is a problem, a company shouldn't have to take a hit to be PC, hell Marvel had one of the most diverse lines of characters out there, the problem was their diversity characters (Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Cloak and Dagger) were not selling as well as top names and in the past Marvel said "If this doesn't sell X numbers we will cancel it" seriously the first Cloak and Dagger only lasted 11 issues before being combined with Dr. Strange and it was supposed to be doing ok. There should never be a business reason to keep on garbage and lose money. Here's the problem with the concept of making a "throw away" character PC it's not true to the subject material, hell they are making Black Panther and they have 90%+ of that as blacks so why PC up Spider-man? What would happen if at the end of the Black Panther movie Marvel gave Kasper Cole the mantle of Black Panther and had him played by a white guy? HOLY HELL the outrage that would happen even though Kasper actually took over the mantle of Black Panther and was just a very light skinned black man people would riot in the streets and that is wrong. SJWs aren't the one's buying the comics so Marvel needs to decide what is more important SJW happy points or earning back classic fans and getting our money back in their pockets. I already didn't pay to see Dr. Strange because I can't stand the race bending and the gender changes, and I will not go see Homecoming because they pissed on who Peter is giving him a fat Asian friend and race bending Liz is crap

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Remember the X-men billboard scandal? One c-list actress has a fit about Mystique being choked by Apocalypse and Fox/Marvel take a huge hit in the PR groin. That is the crappy little battle they fight all the time

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: I remember it being a thing, but I don't believe that it hurt the movie sales. Honestly I think it would have been the same had FOX replied with "You stupid SJWs (probably wouldn't use this verbiage) don't comprehend that the person choking the woman is one of X-Men's most powerful villains and if you don't like that he grabbed someone who is a hero in the movie who happens to be a woman then I'm sorry, but sometimes the heroes sacrifice, come see the movie and judge it on it's merits."

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: We can't be certain but that is the type of little battles they have to fight. Advertising having to be changed every time an SJW pouts. One joke in the Wonder Woman movie and feminazis exploded.

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@doc-holiday: You are right, we can't be 100% sure because we can't go back in time like the X-Men and see what would have happened. Though I would love to see them stand up and show some guts. I never even heard about Feminazis getting offended by a joke in Wonder Woman...What was the joke?

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: In the film, WW is shopping with Steve Trevor's secretary. The woman says "This is a corset, to hide your tummy" as WW asks "Why would we hide our tummies?" and the secretary (who is shorter and wider than WW) says "Only a woman with no tummy would say that".

And thus the SJW/Feminazis called it "fat-shaming"

Of course, they didn't defend WW when the movie was banned from Lebanon because Gal Gadot is from Israel but they'll lose their minds over one joke.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: Oh that is funny as hell!!!! It's true though and it's not "fat-shaming" it's telling the truth. I think we need to be more real like that. Honestly if more women would take the fat shaming to heart and maybe ride a bike, or go to the gym and work out a little they wouldn't be so shamed

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Well, the feminazis, SJWs behave as they do to try to force the world to change for them, not the other way around.

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@doc-holiday: And we the world need to stop allowing them to change things, hell even Trevor Noah on the daily show admitted that these Snowflakes are being melted in the streets and we need to keep torching them by standing against them, start small put Iceman back to the way he had been for 50+ years, stop apologizing for things that offend people, and stop being afraid to put Muslims as the terrorists in your comics. Then move on to bigger things like having the Cosmic cube undo the events of "Secret Wars" (version 2) and put Miles back in his now defunct series, undo the Terrigan Mist ordeal taking away Kamala Khan, and bring Bruce Banner back to life so that Cho can give the Hulk back to the man who should never have stopped being the Hulk. Bringing Bruce back to life can make for an interesting story between him and Hawkeye also. Then you get Carol to realize how wrong she's been about so much and self identify that she has made horrible decisions and drop the mantle of CPT Marvel and return to being Ms. Marvel, and you have Jane Foster finally get over taken by her cancer and die and have Thor look at the hammer and reach down like he's about to try to pick up the hammer but instead pick up Jane and carry her off. In about a year you do a huge event where Thor is fighting someone/something huge and even though he's getting his licks in he is being beaten and as Thor lays there battered beaten and abused the hammer flies in and he uses it to smack the guy/thing and as the dust starts to settle you see a battered and bloodied Thor walking through with Mjolnir in one hand and Jarnbjorn in the other. There are so many great stories to tell by getting rid of the SJW garbage, it would be amazing if Marvel would return to letting people submit ideas for stories to them, then all they would have to do is get whoever they have there read those ideas and maybe tweek them a little to fit current continuity. Also have Marvel start cutting numbers of books, they don't need 90 books a month that hurts their fans because if a comic is $3 each and there are 90 books no fan is going to buy $270 worth of comics where if you have 20 books that is only $60 but fans will be more willing to buy that random new book that you put out (Mosaic is a prime example of hurting a character because of flooding the shelves, it was an ok book with a good character, good plot, and moderate art work (not my style) but because of the fact that they have so many books I never even looked at it until someone mentioned it in a review and talked about how it was exactly what people like me have been yelling about a "minority" character who didn't steal his character from an established character, but because of the fact that there are so many crappy books out there Mosaic isn't selling near well enough to keep. (sorry about the rant)

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Druzzie

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Do they not this segment anymore?

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RabumAlal

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@druzzie: No, they don't. Which is a damn shame.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: One major flaw; admitting diversity ISN'T a strength. I mean, there is a study to prove that but no one wants to accept it :P

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: So you mean admitting the truth isn't a strength....Dang. One of these days Marvel will wake up and have 0 sales because of their forced diversity and Disney will shut them down and I will laugh because if they took the time to care about their readers/customers they could turn back using this chance they gave themselves with Secret Empire and Generations to undo years of hate and anger against their characters.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: A bit extreme. More than likely, someone will say "That's far enough" and revert things to normal. The 'universe reset button' has been hit several times in several comic book universes, Marvel included

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: It is extreme but it may be what they need since they keep rebooting Captain (Ms.) Marvel even though her sales have tanked after 4 runs and never been that good, maybe a complete crash would show them. Marvel has done numerous soft reboots but in this case I believe they need a hard full reboot to undo the harm they've done so far.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Unfortunately I can't see it happening any time soon. Short of feminists suddenly not existing, I don't see the weird new squared jaw Marvel going away

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: I think when sales get bad enough and they realize that the SJWs the are pandering to aren't buying they may get smart.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: I hope you're right. I know some companies have been turning away from social justice, rather than towards it. One company developed the "Snowflake test" to make sure new applicants aren't emotional SJW freaks who can't handle a basic 40 hour work week and simple workplace criticism.

You don't need an office job where every time you need a report typed up, your assistant breaks out into tears and goes on twitter.

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Drake_pendragon

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#90  Edited By Drake_pendragon

###@doc-holiday: I had never heard of the "Snowflake test" before and so I looked it up that is awesome people should be given that just to be allowed to stay in the USA, we should have an island in the middle of the Pacific ocean for anyone that fails it. Honestly I think the first problem Marvel has is writers like Dan Slott who whine, cry and block fans on Twitter and social media after calling them Homophobes, Misogynists, or Racists but he will write a good Spider-man book (2/3rds of the time) maybe Marvel should stop him from using Twitter or disrespecting fans to stay employed. Honestly some of his work is amazing (pun intended) and when he's on it and not doing political stuff with Peter it's great. I know he said he wasn't putting Peter and MJ back together but he keeps hinting that it will happen as do other writers and it will probably happen. So Marvel needs to start having a clause where all Social media interactions must be vetted by the company to make sure that they don't alienate fans. Second thing they should do is look at what is selling and what isn't (I'm not counting #1's because most people buy these thinking someday they may be worth something, but when every 3 months there is a #1 it makes them worthless) and start trimming the fat, even though that means that some of my new likes will go away (Mosaic) it will get rid of the SJW garbage too. By doing this they will lower the number of books put out each month and allow them to focus on quality over quantity, which means that when they want to push new diversity based characters (Mosaic) they can have them jump in for a 5 part series maybe and do crossovers into other more established characters books during that and see how they rate amongst readers and if you are putting out 30 books with 2-3 of them being temporary series (Spider-man/Deadpool, Dr. Strange/Punisher, Deadpool the Duck) then you can always jump a new character in and see how it does if an 8 part series has Mosaic cross over with Deadpool see how sales do and if it's good maybe try a 5 issue arc with just Mosaic and see how it does and if it does well because people want to see a black character who has original powers, and didn't have to steal a name from an established comic legend then maybe have one of the 30 books you print be a regular series about that character, and when one of the titles that you are printing regularly starts to slip have that one go away and start the process over again. #3 Stop pushing SJW agenda's and insulting fans with political garbage, it's one thing to have politics in the comics as long as it's subdued, hell X-Men were a story about racism but they were able to do it without pissing on fans. #4 Leave classic heroes alone, get rid of Miles (in one series they had the decency to call him Kid Arachnid but in the regular stories they continue to call him "spider man" but he's not Spider-man Peter is and Miles should have died in the Ultimate universe like the rest of the Ultimate universe the black Nick Fury should be back there with him. They need one big event that can rectify this whole situation, and I believe that Secret Empire is perfect for that. #5 Stop having event after event after event, they went from Avengers Dissassembled (2004) to Secret war (2004-2005) to House of M (2005), Annihilation (2006-2007), Civil War (2006-2007) and it goes on where there are 2-3 large events a year now in comparison to 1-2 large events a year with smaller events that only cover a small part of the Universe back in the day. If Marvel did these 5 things I think it would help them a lot, obviously #4 means having Falcon step back down (which will lower his cred as a hero which will happen anyway when they could have had him stay Falcon, stop printing Captain America books for a while and made him be his own hero and given Sam more hero cred by staying Falcon...Just saying) either depowering or killing Kamala, Miles, Amadeus, Rere, and Jane and bringing back the real version of Iceman and Wolverine.

1) Stop writers from alienating fans

2) Cut back on flooding the market

3) back to basics/lighten the political hate rhetoric

4) Stop messing with the classics

5) Limit big events, it will make them be special.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: I definitely feel like it's not right to call Marvel fans things like homophobic simply for not wanting Iceman to be gay...since the very comic that made him gay said he is straight.

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Drake_pendragon

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#92  Edited By Drake_pendragon
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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: But unfortunately, liberals are cry-bullies. They whine and force people to do what they want. It's how we almost ended up with Hillary

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: Yes but luckily we didn't end up with her which should send businesses a clear message.

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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: Businesses are more about hedging their bets. It's why the various leaders have all been meeting with Trump and making slow changes. If things suddenly suck with him, they can go back to the old ways

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Drake_pendragon

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#96  Edited By Drake_pendragon
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Doc-Holiday

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@drake_pendragon: The problem is, these days, if you get labeled something; racist, homophobic, etc. it's hard and for some, nearly impossible to bounce back from. Look at Chick-Filet, they got called that and it took years for people to get over it and they probably lost quite a bit of coin.

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poeticwarrior

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@drake_pendragon: The problem is, these days, if you get labeled something; racist, homophobic, etc. it's hard and for some, nearly impossible to bounce back from. Look at Chick-Filet, they got called that and it took years for people to get over it and they probably lost quite a bit of coin.

The name calling is going on both side. One side is bigot, racist, sexist, homophobic, the other side is SJW, White Knight, cuck, virgin, feminist. It's not a one sided thing.

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Drake_pendragon

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@doc-holiday: Chic-a-fila actually continued to do well after the SJWs opted to cry about the owner supporting traditional marriage, yes they may have lost some business but they also lost business when they opted to cave in to the opposition. I know I for one ate there more when I found out that their owner was willing to support a cause he believed in, and stopped when he caved in. I like the fact that after the shooting in Orlando regardless of the individuals the owner and members brought free food to the people because they care more about society than people's individual lifestyles.

@poeticwarrior The difference between bigot, racist, sexist, homophobe and being called SJW, White knight, virgin or feminist is the connotation there is nothing (prior to modern history) with being called a warrior for social justice hell that is what cops do on a daily, heck white knights were the heroes in stories, but if you are a "homophobe" you have a mental disorder (that is what a phobia is), if you are sexist or racist you are shunned by society (bigot is a generic word for someone who hates a group).

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Doc-Holiday

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@doc-holiday said:

@drake_pendragon: The problem is, these days, if you get labeled something; racist, homophobic, etc. it's hard and for some, nearly impossible to bounce back from. Look at Chick-Filet, they got called that and it took years for people to get over it and they probably lost quite a bit of coin.

The name calling is going on both side. One side is bigot, racist, sexist, homophobic, the other side is SJW, White Knight, cuck, virgin, feminist. It's not a one sided thing.

The difference is, one ruins your career, possibly forever. The other doesn't.