Azathoth Isnt Omnipotent

Azathoth (Cthulhu)

• Was put to sleep by the Outer Gods
• Is Dream Reality Warping

Azathoth (Demonbane)

• No Feats
• Was Sealed by Elder God Demonbane which EGD is the weakest of the Gods.

Conclusion

They aren't equal or greater than TOAA,The Presence or other omnipotent beings.

Bump!

@egdemonbane: The whole point of Azathoth in the Lovecraftian verse is that God just cannot be beaten. Everything is his dream, and once awoken, everything ceases to be. And I mean everything, anything that ever was or will be. If you have read HP Lovecrafts short stories, letters, his couple of novels and/or read quotes on debates whether he is omnipotent or not would show this. As for Demonbane, considering EGD is a being that is the closest thing to omnipotence there is, he is just a dream and is part of the reality which Azathoth dreams up. So that is why it is widely accepted that he IS omnipotent.

If he lost to someone he's not omnipotent.

@jucaslucas: Please, do tell who both Lovecraft and Demonbane Azathoth has lost to?

@jucaslucas: Just because you lose to your own nightmares doesn't mean you aren't omnipotent in your own dream world.

@lovecraftmytho: I didn't say they lost, I just said that if they did they aren't omnipotent.

If you are incapable of anything you're not omnipotent.

I don't even know who this guy is, I'm just clarifying that.

This again. Azathoth is omnipotent, he's literally dreaming up all of existence.

not that it lost in the first place - it was sealed, because it didn't give a damn. It's a high end feat for demonbane, not low showing for azathoth.

@princearagorn1: Couldn't have said to better.

False.......

1. Azathoth can be beaten.......and he was put to sleep by flute playing outer gods its a dream related novel so yes if he awakes up its gone and if he sleeps its there again and he isnt omnipotent in the slightest.

2. EGD isnt the closest to anything relating to omnipotence lmao.

3. Azathoth was sealed by EGD so no omnipotence just stop.

@sc@jedixman@god_spawn

Sigh, its just BEYONDERGOD again. He really doesn't know when to quit. If you're banned, you're banned. Build a bridge and get over it.

Its just funny that people continue to claim Azathoth isn't omnipotent because he is sleeping, or that he is a "Blind Idiot God". His dream contains beings that are omniscient, so he is very likely to be omniscient when awake. Further more, he was not sealed. He dreamt up of the Court of Azathoth to keep himself asleep forever.

In order for all of existence to be a part of your dreams, you would have to be sleeping in the first place to dream. And Azathoth's dream contains beings like Yog-Sothoth who embodies an infinite amount of beings who see worlds with infinite higher layers as nothing more than games without any rules, along with the Nameless Mist who created Yog-Sothoth without even trying to do so, etc.

Last but not least, omnipotence is a self-contradictory and paradoxical concept that simply cannot exist. Even the strongest end-all be-all character can logically be only QUESTIONABLY omnipotent, because omnipotence is impossible to prove.

So, people say he's omnipotent because he's dreaming the entire existance.

But is he omnipotent in the world he lives? Like, I'm invincible in my dreams, but obviously not in real life.

He doesn't consciously control reality.

Think about it this way. Franklin Richards creates a universe. There are several possibilities. 1) he creates the physics for the universe and bans outside influence including himself and allows it to shape itself 2) he actually creates all of that but then inserts his consciousness into it to develop life and cosmic ecosystems conducive to life 3) he physically enters the universe and interacts with and affects the lives of the beings inside of it. There are more possibilities but you get my drift.

Is he omnipotent in all 3 scenarios?

Now for all intents and purposes he is omnipotent within the system he created. But that doesn't make him omnipotent in the larger 616 or Prime Earth overworld that he actually resides inside.

Azathoth is not omnipotent. He happens to be a God that dreams the dream we are living. If you were standing next to him he would not have control over your existence rather he awoke or not. You have to be inside of his dream or his sphere of influence to be affected. Beings who exist outside of the dream clearly have control over him, like forcing him to sleep.

It's like I am omnipotent when I have a dream... or am I? I can't control what happens in my dream. But I could still be killed in reality while sleeping and end the dream universe against my will.

Edit: he isnt dreaming his own existence nor did he create himself, he is part of a larger creation. Clearly not omnipotent. If he wakes up all of existence doesn't dissappear, just his dreamscape.

@jucaslucas: Azathoth is not in another world or anything like that. It doesn't work that way.

The whole point of him is that the entire Lovecraft continuity is as real to him as it is to us. Every concept or idea exists only in his unfathomable mind. Azathoth cannot be destroyed and is truely indestructible given that the concept of destruction exists only within his mind. All of existence is a part of his dreams, and it will end once he wakes up. When we say all of existence we mean it. The whole Lovecraft cosmology, the entire Court of Azathoth, etc. Azathoth also precedes the concept of existence itself, given that he created the Nameless Mist who in turn created Yog-Sothoth who embodies and at the same time transcends everything and nothing.

@masterofluck123: It literally doesn't say anything you just wrote anywhere. If it were a comic I would want scans. Here I want quotes.

Proof of indestructibility?

@avatar_of_green:

Firstly, this is a quote for all of creation being Azathoth's dream.

This is a scan of a letter made by H.P Lovecraft himself. Every God in the Mythos is descended from him, including Yog-Sothoth, meaning he precedes the concept of existence itself.

Azathoth being indestructible or not wouldn't be too important here. Since all of existence is just a part of his dream, he would be truly boundless and thus untouchable. If every concept and idea exists only inside his mind, then the concept of destruction would be no different.

@masterofluck123: But there are people here saying that he was put into sleep by other gods. That would mean there's a world he lives in with other people.

@jucaslucas:

Azathoth cannot destroy anything directly because he is sleeping. However, it was he who dreamt up of the Gods to keep himself asleep in the first place.

Picture it like this. You have a dream, and you directly self-insert yourself inside your own dream, and you additionally dream up of a court of gods to make them keep yourself asleep. Even if it sounds impossible, omnipotence would explain him being able to do that, because the definition of omnipotence is to be able to achieve absolutely everything with no limits all.

And the Gods in the Mythos did not seal him. They are just there to ensure Azathoth never wakes up. They have never done anything like sealing Azathoth.

There isn't any world Azathoth is living in. Absolutely everything in the Mythos is his entire dream, and he can't do anything at all because while all of existence is a part of his dream, he is sleeping and as such, he will never, ever interfere with anything at all.

@masterofluck123: So he is a guy dreaming about gods making him dream, and creating the universe as a side effect?

@jucaslucas: The gods are not making him dream. Azathoth is doing it of his own accord and the gods just help to sustain the dream, for if Azathoth wakes up, the whole Cthulhu verse will simply cease to exist.

However everything that happens is directed by his own mind. Meaning that he is dreaming about gods keeping him asleep which doesn't make sense, but at the same time omnipotence helps to explain it entirely. You are right on him dreaming about weird eldritch gods keeping him asleep.

@masterofluck123: OK, now I got it.

Both Azathoths are omnipotents.

He's pretty omnipotent and powerful

@egdemonbane: Lovecraft's Azathoth was never been beaten by anything. In fact, it hasn't even fought in any of Lovecraft's stories ever told. That being said, you're right, Azathoth is not omnipotent. Nor is all reality his dream. The Quote from the poem "The Fungi From Yuggoth" is not only NOT meant to be taken literally, it uses dream in it's past tense form, implying the entity is awake. There is a huge misconception going around that Lovecraftian beings are unbeatable monsters. This is untrue, and it isn't the point of his works as many would claim. While we all derive different meanings from things, it was clearly stated in Lovecraft's letters that he intended to present the idea of a chaotic universe beyond the scope of what we think to be reality. It was about the worthlessness of human existence. Needless to say, he obviously succeeded. Azathoth is a powerful being no doubt, but he is not omnipotent. At least, not in his original conception.

What bobandjim1260 said was entirely wrong. Lovecraft explicity said that Azathoth is a dreaming, blind idiot god. Meaning he has complete omnipotence, but not omniscience as he in unaware that he's even dreaming. It's akin to him being in a comatose state. Everything, the universe, the outer gods, every single thing is apart of Azathoth's dream. It's as simple as that and Lovecraft stated this many times. Things like creation, life, death, destruction, do not actually exist, they are only apart of Azathoth's dream. We have no idea what kind of being Azathoth is based upon lovecraft's work, only that it is beyond any sort of comprehension

My mixtape is omnipotent

Azathoth is more omnipotent than TOAA lol.

Cite these quotations from Lovecraft explicitly saying that everything is a Dream and he is an Omnipotent. And the NUMEROUS holy godly fuckass number of octillion infinity times that Lovecraft EXPLICITLY stated that Azathoth is a Complete Omnipotent like you're oh so claiming it so.

The fact that you even admit he is Impotent on his Knowledge, already means you admit he is not Omnipotent.

Therefore Azathoth =/= Omnipotent

I was told Altair was Omnipotent, I was told Reinhard was Omnipotent, I was told blablablabla

Dreaming reality =/= Omnipotent. Dreams are of a reality on their own. Finding things fictional to you is not by any means impressive. It only means you are the only thing real in your fictionverse.

I dream't of ponies, does that make me Omnipotent?

"We have no idea what kind of being Azathoth is based upon lovecraft's work, only that it is beyond any sort of comprehension"

Azathoth is a fictional character, and an expression of Lovecraft's imagination and the message he's trying to convey. Are you implying that there is a real Azathoth and Lovecraft based him on that?

@sungsam: I'm going to try and clear up some of the confusion, because people hear seem to have gotten into an argument of definitions, where nobody actually knows what anything else is saying. So here I go;

Lets say you feel asleep tonight, and had a dream about ponies. And you were walking about in your dream playing with ponies and stuff, just chilling, having a normal dream. You wouldn't feel omnipotent. You wouldn't act omnipotent. You probably wouldn't even do anything a normal person couldn't do if it was a normal kind of dream. And why would you? You're just a normal person.

But to the ponies, you are god. You created their entire world, and if you wake up it vanishes. Every detail of their reality, from the blades of grass to their minds, is just part of your dream. They can scar you by running at you and biting you and making it a nightmare, but that would wake you up and end the dream so why would they do that? Or they can act like normal, playful ponies and try to make it a good dream, so you stay asleep longer. Our dreams can hurt and scare us (nightmares), but they can't actually kill us, or really harm us, because they are contained wholesale in our imagination.

Azathoth isn't omnipotent in the sense that things in the universe can't hurt/scare him or troll him or contain him; he's omnipotent in the sense that it literally doesn't matter. If something 'seals' him, that's just like the ponies in your dream herding you into pen. The things playing music around him aren't 'trapping' him; they're just like the ponies in your dream continuing to act like ponies to keep you asleep. They aren't controlling him, they're just making sure he continues to have a good time so he doesn't wake up prematurely; they're preventing any possibility of the dream turning into a nightmare and scarring him awake.

For all we know Azathoth could just be an ordinary office worker in his reality, and one day he is going to wake up, scratch his ass and go to work and the entire universe will cease to exist because it was all just a dream.

So, to sum, Azathoth is omnipotent in the same way we are omnipotent when we dream; he is omnipotent from the perspective of his dream characters (everything in the Cthulu mythos). From Azathoth's point of view he's just having a nice dream, and maybe he's not doing anything out of the ordinary for whatever kind of being he is. From his slumbering point of view he is not omnipotent, just like most of us aren't omnipotent in our dreams.

But from out point of view Azathoth is omnipotent; he is not just the creator of the world, he is the world. The world is his dream. Everything in the mythos is a part of him. We can no more 'hurt' or 'trap' or 'beat' him anymore than our dreams can actually hurt, trap, or beat us.

Azathoth is on some level beyond omnipotence, honestly.

Eeeyeah, that's Suggsverse non sense right there.

@sungsam: What's a Suggsverse?

@egdemonbane: he wasn't "put to sleep" show me proof of that because there is a 99% chance that was the author intent at all

the reality is that the gods keeping him asleep are also part of the dream, in the high reality Azathoth resides in, Azathoth is the only one in existence hence the wording "all will be Azathoth again" not "the reality we know of but not the elder gods and what not",ALL.the gods you are saying put him to sleep literally didn't exist until he fell asleep.

fictional characters can be at logical omnipotence at best

that

Nah, he is. But only given by the very idea that everything is Azathoth his dream. However, the Demonbane version isn´t omnipotent.

Lovecraft's Azathoth doesn't dream all of reality, stop propagating that myth.

You mean an Biblically Accurate Angel

You have to be capable of everything and anything to be omnipotent. Not been able to beat yourself with your own nightmare creation would mean that you are not omnipotent. But been beaten by your own nightmares would mean that you are not omnipotent. The paradox.

Omnipotent or not it still doesn’t change the fact that Azathoth is literally the strongest fictional character ever made

Omnipotent or not it still doesn’t change the fact that Azathoth is literally the strongest fictional character ever made

Also you haven’t provided any context whatsoever about how he’s inferior to the likes of TOAA or The Presence but you just claimed that he’s not omnipotent so therefore he’s inferior. If you didn’t know TOAA was defeated and easily humiliated by the likes of Thanos who posessess the Astral Regulator the cosmic cube which was responsible for balancing the multiverse. The One Above All even admits that he cannot control the regulators as a result Thanos used the regulator to absorb TOAA and The Living Tribunal. Yes that is unfortunately canon. So also that disregards TOAA even being omnipotent in the first place because he wasn’t. As of now TOAA is only a Baseline 1-A.

Yes the Azathoth from Demonbane is essentially an Inspiration of the Other Azathoth but this time it’s given limitations the Azathoth from Demonbane was sealed which indeed doesn’t make him omnipotent and as a result he is inferior to the likes of TOAA and The Presence

Azathoth is stronger than the Presence whilst the presence transcends above everything in existence regardless of its dimensionality. And essentially the essence of The Overvoid (An endless void which encompasses the entirety of DC Vertigo), The Source and The Creator (God). The 3 most poweful abstracts within existence are all a part of Azzy Dream. And will cease to exist. If awoken the only one who is resistant to Azathoth’s dream is Yog-Sothoth who’s limited by Azathoth himself

Too bad hes not around we could ask him himself!!!

^We’d sue him if lived in modern times, lol.

Literally nothing in CM is feats