Avengers Endgame: Spoiler Discussion Thread

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#1 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I looked and there are just random threads about Endgame disucssing a certain part of the movie, be it one thing or another, so here is a general discussion thread for ALL things about the movie.

You were warned, there will be talk with spoilers.

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#2 Edited by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start with something I have barely seen anyone talking about and for me it was one of the BEST and most badass moments in the movie and that was Wanda wrecking Thanos one on one, man I was so happy to see that, that's how you do a powerful woman.

I love Wanda, I adore Elizabeth Olsen.

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#3 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still shocked that Natasha died. I was never expecting that. I was so shook after that death. Worse than Gamora. Tony shocked me as well. Was convinced and had mentally prepared myself for Cap to die. I didn't think it would be Tony. I was completely convinced after they showed his daughter that Steve would die to save him so he could be with his family.

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#4 Posted by KingLouie (3567 posts) - - Show Bio

Thought there was already a Avengers Spoiler discussion thread?

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#5 Edited by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely the best movie of 2019, but they nerfed the crap out of all of their characters except the ones that are basically dead i.e. IM and Cap

Thor is now WW level and hulk is below cap

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#6 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5359 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio

I actually thought that scene where a thundercloud forms as Thor summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker before battling Thanos was really cool. I also thought it was cool how he duel wielded them, though Cap did kinda steal his thunder.

Speaking on power levels, Thor isn't as impressive in combat as he used to be due to the way he fights now vs then but I really don't think Thor was nerfed so much in actual overall power, as he just didn't do anything impressive compared to what a lot expected. The main reason he wasn't as effective in combat is because he didn't use his lightning much and Thanos had his own bladed weapon to counteract Stormbreaker. The main other thing to consider is durability and its not exactly shocking that Thanos can hurt Thor. IIRC it was confirmed that Thanos is more skilled than Thor in IW commentary which explains why he would do better in what is essentially a melee battle.

Strength wise he was actually depicted as being near Thanos's level 2-3 times which definitely surprised me.

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#8 Posted by Thorthunder98 (6897 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

I'm still shocked that Natasha died. I was never expecting that. I was so shook after that death. Worse than Gamora. Tony shocked me as well. Was convinced and had mentally prepared myself for Cap to die. I didn't think it would be Tony. I was completely convinced after they showed his daughter that Steve would die to save him so he could be with his family.

When did they do that I can't remember? There was so much going on in the film I can't remember most of it now lol

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#9 Posted by KingLouie (3567 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio

@thorthunder98:

Them showing Tony's daughter? Was near the beginning of the film after he got back from space. When the Avengers came to try and convince him to help them with a time machine.

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#11 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: There is no need to use the spoiler blocks, it's already in both the title and the OP that this thread will contain spoilers, so anyone who comes here has already been warned, twice, they can't complain.

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#12 Posted by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@kinglouie: cap with mjolnir? Yea hulk is not beating him.

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#13 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

I actually thought that scene where a thundercloud forms as Thor summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker before battling Thanos was really cool. I also thought it was cool how he duel wielded them, though Cap did kinda steal his thunder.

Speaking on power levels, Thor isn't as impressive in combat as he used to be due to the way he fights now vs then but I really don't think Thor was nerfed so much in actual overall power, as he just didn't do anything impressive compared to what a lot expected. The main reason he wasn't as effective in combat is because he didn't use his lightning much and Thanos had his own bladed weapon to counteract Stormbreaker. The main other thing to consider is durability and its not exactly shocking that Thanos can hurt Thor. IIRC it was confirmed that Thanos is more skilled than Thor in IW commentary which explains why he would do better in what is essentially a melee battle.

Strength wise he was actually depicted as being near Thanos's level 2-3 times which definitely surprised me.

This.

Thor was not nerfed, I think people thought he'd just come in and one shot Thanos, which would have been disappointing, also Thor was not mentally and psychologically in a good place, plus he was less agile and had spent 5 years without a fight, but stat-wise he was just as powerful, hell, he maybe even got stronger, he held Thanos for several seconds, like you mentioned in your last sentence, we were clearly shown that Thor was almost as strong as Thanos, many times.

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#14 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety said:

@kinglouie: cap with mjolnir? Yea hulk is not beating him.

Hulk ragdolled thor

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#16 Posted by Lan_Fan (16775 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start with something I have barely seen anyone talking about and for me it was one of the BEST and most badass moments in the movie and that was Wanda wrecking Thanos one on one, man I was so happy to see that, that's how you do a powerful woman.

I love Wanda, I adore Elizabeth Olsen.

🤗🤗🤗

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#18 Posted by ThorofAsgard (589 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: Thor beat Hulk on planet Sakkar without either mjolnir or SB.

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#19 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: Thor beat Hulk on planet Sakkar without either mjolnir or SB.

Fight was inconclusive and that doesnt scale to Cap in any way shape or form

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#20 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Edited by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: here’s an easy comparison. Thanos not using any stone>>>>IW hulk, IW hulk> banner hulk, thanos with no stone with a big ass sword >=cap with mjolnir

Hulk hulk was being toyed by Thanos. Banner hulk would be humiliated by the endgame non jobber thanos. And cap actually did some damage on him with mjolnir

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#22 Posted by PenguinDust (9516 posts) - - Show Bio

Why would Ant-Man think anyone knew who he was? If anything your average citizen would have a negative reaction to him probably. He was labeled a criminal from the German airport scuffle and the next time people saw him he was rampaging through San Francisco knocking stuff over and tearing up the streets. Then he disappeared for five years. Plus, most of the time he was on TV as the Ant-Man he had a helmet on.

Also, for a movie where practically every Marvel body who is still alive has a screen appearance, where's Michael Pena's Luis and Martin Freeman’s Everett Ross? I know they're secondary characters, but both had more screen time than Michelle Pfeiffer and she was in the movie.

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#23 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety: Wow he pushed him back and dropped him once that doesnt mean he wouldnt get ragdolled by Hulk considering Thor has no showings proving Hulk wouldnt just toss him around

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#24 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

I actually thought that scene where a thundercloud forms as Thor summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker before battling Thanos was really cool. I also thought it was cool how he duel wielded them, though Cap did kinda steal his thunder.

Speaking on power levels, Thor isn't as impressive in combat as he used to be due to the way he fights now vs then but I really don't think Thor was nerfed so much in actual overall power, as he just didn't do anything impressive compared to what a lot expected. The main reason he wasn't as effective in combat is because he didn't use his lightning much and Thanos had his own bladed weapon to counteract Stormbreaker. The main other thing to consider is durability and its not exactly shocking that Thanos can hurt Thor. IIRC it was confirmed that Thanos is more skilled than Thor in IW commentary which explains why he would do better in what is essentially a melee battle.

Strength wise he was actually depicted as being near Thanos's level 2-3 times which definitely surprised me.

This.

Thor was not nerfed, I think people thought he'd just come in and one shot Thanos, which would have been disappointing, also Thor was not mentally and psychologically in a good place, plus he was less agile and had spent 5 years without a fight, but stat-wise he was just as powerful, hell, he maybe even got stronger, he held Thanos for several seconds, like you mentioned in your last sentence, we were clearly shown that Thor was almost as strong as Thanos, many times.

I think if we had seen Thanos invade the asgardians ship and defeat Thor people wouldve lowered their expectations

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#25 Posted by JamesWayne (994 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety: ok hulk isn’t below cap st all. I’d say all of the 4 main guys cap tony Thor and hulk are around the same. With strange Wanda and carol being significantly above them

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#26 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio
@amcu said:

I actually thought that scene where a thundercloud forms as Thor summons Mjolnir and Stormbreaker before battling Thanos was really cool. I also thought it was cool how he duel wielded them, though Cap did kinda steal his thunder.

Speaking on power levels, Thor isn't as impressive in combat as he used to be due to the way he fights now vs then but I really don't think Thor was nerfed so much in actual overall power, as he just didn't do anything impressive compared to what a lot expected. The main reason he wasn't as effective in combat is because he didn't use his lightning much and Thanos had his own bladed weapon to counteract Stormbreaker. The main other thing to consider is durability and its not exactly shocking that Thanos can hurt Thor. IIRC it was confirmed that Thanos is more skilled than Thor in IW commentary which explains why he would do better in what is essentially a melee battle.

Strength wise he was actually depicted as being near Thanos's level 2-3 times which definitely surprised me.

This.

Thor was not nerfed, I think people thought he'd just come in and one shot Thanos, which would have been disappointing, also Thor was not mentally and psychologically in a good place, plus he was less agile and had spent 5 years without a fight, but stat-wise he was just as powerful, hell, he maybe even got stronger, he held Thanos for several seconds, like you mentioned in your last sentence, we were clearly shown that Thor was almost as strong as Thanos, many times.

Sorry guys, but the movie that i saw was saying every 5 minutes that Thor was now a shadow of IW Thor... Even the aura of his lightning look pallid...

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#27 Posted by pkety (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: by pushed him back and dropped him once u mean uppercut him 20 ft back then proceed to beat his a** with mjolnir combined with shield then use lightning from the ground and air to put him down harder than even double wielding Thor could? Compared to hulk literally just pushing thanos back into a wall? Look at how thanos actually had to try to fight cap with a giant double edged sword and cap was back up after a minute. What happened to the hulk again? Oh right k.o’d after ten seconds of boxing and would’ve been dead if it wasn’t for Heimdall.

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#28 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725:

I think if we had seen Thanos invade the asgardians ship and defeat Thor people wouldve lowered their expectations

Tired Thor from Ragnarok with no weapon and unable to summon lightning in space? Bad example...

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#29 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard:

Its true that Thor didn't use lightning much. And he definitely wasn't in as good physical condition comparing to IW. But the difference physically is to a believable degree given the context. He still was powerful enough to survive blows from Thanos and strong enough to grapple with Thanos. Basically I'm saying he wasn't nerfed to the extent of the film either portraying him on a lower level randomly without cause or literally decreasing his power level. Endgame Thor is simply an out of shape IW Thor who didn't use his powers as effectively in combat anymore. You could potentially attribute this to him not being in combat for 5 years(Though that's not a great explainer).

Now I definitely wish very strongly they had not mad him fat and that they would've had him use his powers more effectively. I'm just saying he didn't do anything in this film that contradicted his IW showings.

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#30 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard: He literally has lightning in his veins.

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#31 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@pkety: And Hulk still beat Thors ass twice

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#32 Posted by TheSpartanB345T (4622 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start with something I have barely seen anyone talking about and for me it was one of the BEST and most badass moments in the movie and that was Wanda wrecking Thanos one on one, man I was so happy to see that, that's how you do a powerful woman.

I love Wanda, I adore Elizabeth Olsen.

This, so much.

Wanda is the proper way to organically do "powerful women." Why? Because she has actual character development that makes the payoff satisfying. First, she started off as a scared, vengeful girl that didn't know who or what to fight for. Her brother died, and she had to come to terms with the fact that everyone that she loved was gone. She had to be "an Avenger" and from that point on she dedicated herself to mastering her powers and doing good. We can see her powers grow over the course of the movies, with each increase being satisfying but also indicating a climax in the future.

Once Vision died, she had a real reason to hate Thanos and use her powers. When it finally happened on screen, it felt real because it showed her growth and development over the movies, encapsulated into one moment.

Compare this to Captain Marvel, a rather flat and boring character. She wants to kill Thanos because she's cocky and feels powerful and because he's the villain. She can do this because... she's powerful?

One is executed very well, one is just lazy and predictable.

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#33 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio
@kgb725 said:

@asgaard: He literally has lightning in his veins.

Nope, he still needs the atmospheric elements to summon lightning even if it flows in his body...

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#34 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio
@kgb725 said:

@asgaard: When was that said

When it was said that he has lightning in his veins?

Beside the comics its logical that Thor can't produce lightning from his body, no? Even in Endgame you see the thundercloud, same in Ragnarok...

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#36 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@thor_parker82 said:

I'll start with something I have barely seen anyone talking about and for me it was one of the BEST and most badass moments in the movie and that was Wanda wrecking Thanos one on one, man I was so happy to see that, that's how you do a powerful woman.

I love Wanda, I adore Elizabeth Olsen.

This, so much.

Wanda is the proper way to organically do "powerful women." Why? Because she has actual character development that makes the payoff satisfying. First, she started off as a scared, vengeful girl that didn't know who or what to fight for. Her brother died, and she had to come to terms with the fact that everyone that she loved was gone. She had to be "an Avenger" and from that point on she dedicated herself to mastering her powers and doing good. We can see her powers grow over the course of the movies, with each increase being satisfying but also indicating a climax in the future.

Once Vision died, she had a real reason to hate Thanos and use her powers. When it finally happened on screen, it felt real because it showed her growth and development over the movies, encapsulated into one moment.

Compare this to Captain Marvel, a rather flat and boring character. She wants to kill Thanos because she's cocky and feels powerful and because he's the villain. She can do this because... she's powerful?

One is executed very well, one is just lazy and predictable.

The empathetic character who found out one of her friends and countless others died is trying to murder the guy who killed countless beings because shes "cocky" do yall ever think about how dumb yall sound ?

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#37 Posted by kgb725 (19676 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard said:
@kgb725 said:

@asgaard: When was that said

When it was said that he has lightning in his veins?

Beside the comics its logical that Thor can't produce lightning from his body, no? Even in Endgame you see the thundercloud, same in Ragnarok...

He did make lightning without any use of the cloude in Ragnarok though

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#38 Posted by Thorthunder98 (6897 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu said:

@thorthunder98:

Them showing Tony's daughter? Was near the beginning of the film after he got back from space. When the Avengers came to try and convince him to help them with a time machine.

Oh my bad I thought you meant they showed that Steve would die to save him not just the showing his daughter bit I remember that.

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#39 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio
@kgb725 said:
@asgaard said:
@kgb725 said:

@asgaard: When was that said

When it was said that he has lightning in his veins?

Beside the comics its logical that Thor can't produce lightning from his body, no? Even in Endgame you see the thundercloud, same in Ragnarok...

He did make lightning without any use of the cloude in Ragnarok though

The movies are not always showing the thunderclouds, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there...

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#40 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard: I don't think you should keep discussing with him, it will get you nowhere and look at his posts, he's just attacking everyone, being passive agressive and condescending to anyone who disagrees with him, as opposed to all the other here actually having a nice discussion about the movie.

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#42 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard said:
@kgb725 said:

@asgaard: When was that said

When it was said that he has lightning in his veins?

Beside the comics its logical that Thor can't produce lightning from his body, no? Even in Endgame you see the thundercloud, same in Ragnarok...

Now I could totally be having a memory lapse as there was a lot going on, but I thought Thor literally stated exactly that in Endgame.

I do agree though that he probably can't summon lightning bolts down onto an opponent while in space due to no atmosphere. Just noting this cause it struck a cord in my memory.

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#43 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (16545 posts) - - Show Bio

Back on topic, I absolutely loved the movie, there are so many positive things, however I want to touch on two scenes that could have been better/improved.

First was Captain America's final scene, and I'm not talking about how it contradicts the rules of time travelling, I can forgive that, my problem was with something else entirely, it's this: Steve should have given Bucky the shield, way better and more stories to grab from the comic books, made more sense narrative wise as well, and would have had a bigger emotional impact, but being blunt, I think they did it for being politically correct, because Sam is...well, black, and having a black Captain America on a huge platform like the MCU is sure going to make buzz.

But let alone the shield, even that wasn't my biggest problem with that part, my biggest problem was that we should have seen Steve talking to Bucky, not Sam, or Sam but then Bucky as well, Bucky is much more meaningful and has a deeper relationship with Steve, it would have made more sense for them to have the final talk, the previous movies went out of their way to show us just how important Bucky was to Steve and vice-versa, but then they suddenly hit us with a talk between Sam and Steve that isn't nearly as emotional or impactful as it could have been had he talked to Bucky.

==========================================================

Secondly, this part is about Thor: Thor was in dire need of a redeeming moment, he should have been the one to destroy Thanos' ship, I actually thought he was going to do that, sadly it was Manvers.

Imagine this, the ship starts firing down on The Avengers, then the scene shifts to Thor who says "You took everything from me and I was unable to stop it, and now you want to take from me the only thing I have left, my friends, my family, The Avengers,.......this shall not happen" then he goes flying, we hear thunder and see a cloud forming, then a massive lightning bolt comes from the sky and tears Thanos' ship apart.

If that had happened, I'd forgive them for what they did to Thor, because he'd have a defining moment and character growth, he needed a redeeming moment and this was the perfect occasion, I'm sure general audience would have absolutely loved it as it would be a deja-vu of how he turned the tides on Infinity War, a moment that was praised by everyone, and with that he would still be seen as a badass and powerhouse for the general audience.

I mean, I think he will still be seen as a badass and powerhouse with what we got, but him wrecking the ship would have been a thousand times better, and would have loved the Russo brothers 3000 if they did that.

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#44 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu:

I'm just saying he didn't do anything in this film that contradicted his IW showings.

I am disappointed with the Russo brothers, but in terms of logic, out of shape Thor reinforces the notion that IW Thor was too OP to fight Thanos without the stones... To me that was shown several times during Endgame...

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#45 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard: Possibly. He certainly would have performed better.

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#46 Edited by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu:

I honestly don't remember of Thor using that expression in Endgame, but lightning in his veins is something that its used in the comics to praise Thor and other characters that show great bravery...

Also i don't remember to see Thor making attacks ala Darth Sidious in any medium...

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#47 Posted by Amcu (17233 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by APEX_pretador (21439 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: @asgaard: Thor literally said in endgame that lightning is in his veins.

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#49 Posted by Asgaard (4563 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: @asgaard: Thor literally said in endgame that lightning is in his veins.

OK i concede on that part... And since i don't remember the context i will not argue more about the expression...

But till anyone prove otherwise, i will keep the part where he needs the atmospheric elements for his his lightning attacks.

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#50 Posted by deactivated-5ccc5f861ec2c (182 posts) - - Show Bio

@asgaard said:
@apex_pretador said:

@amcu: @asgaard: Thor literally said in endgame that lightning is in his veins.

OK i concede on that part... And since i don't remember the context i will not argue more about the expression...

But till anyone prove otherwise, i will keep the part where he needs the atmospheric elements for his his lightning attacks.

Well enjoy being wrong. And perhaps go to a few physics lessons. You don't need certain atmospheric conditions to produce electricity lmao. Why are you even trying to argue this? His lightning is a non factor to Thanos so even if he did use it on the Asgardian Refugee ship Thanos would whoop him just the same.