Avatar Strength and Power tier list

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Pizzagod342

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#1  Edited By Pizzagod342
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kataraaaa

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#4  Edited By kataraaaa

You have Azula and Toph a whole tier above Katara? And put the prodigies on the same level as Zuko and Mako and Bolin? Huh?

Zaheer and Kuvira in the same tier as Aang and Korra - you put Zaheer above Tenzin who literally beat him, and Kuvira 2 tiers above Suyin who gave her a good fight?

Why is Lin so low? And JJ/Pakku? Below Tonraq and Hama?

I know a lot of ATLA characters are in a similar realm with each other but these are things I just can't see eye to eye with

I think you did Katara and Lin hella dirty, JJ and Pakku too

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Stratospher

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Looking at it for a few seconds can already see people having plenty of problems with this.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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Kuvira should be below high-master tier. Combustion Man shouldn't be at the top of that category either. He's not that good. Mako is too high.

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Pizzagod342

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@kataraaaa:

You have Azula and Toph a whole tier above Katara?

That’s comic versions. TV show versions are in the same tier as her.

And put the prodigies on the same level as Zuko and Mako and Bolin? Huh?

Zuko was going blow for blow with Azula at the air temple. Mako overwhelmed Ming Hua. Bolin countered lava bending attacks from Ghazan.

you put Zaheer above Tenzin who literally beat him

Post flight Zaheer. Pre flight Zaheer is in mid master.

and Kuvira 2 tiers above Suyin who gave her a good fight?

Kuvira was going blow for blow with season 4 Korra. Which is why she’s in the same tier as her

Why is Lin so low?

She isn’t on the level of the Red lotus, or the Gaang.

And JJ/Pakku? Below Tonraq and Hama?

Tonraq fought both Zaheer and Unalaq and Hama fought Katara

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Pizzagod342

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@boutatakeanl: Kuvira was neck and neck with Korra. Combustion Man forced Aang, Katara and Toph to retreat. Mako overwhelmed Ming Hua

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Stratospher

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@pizzagod342:

Kuvira was neck and neck with Korra

With Korra who only had half of her arsenal, that didn't include her strongest element.

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kataraaaa

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@pizzagod342 said:

That’s comic versions. TV show versions are in the same tier as her.

Katara also got better in the comics

Zuko was going blow for blow with Azula at the air temple. Mako overwhelmed Ming Hua. Bolin countered lava bending attacks from Ghazan.

Azula was already breaking after her betrayal, and she didn't do anything except shoot basic fireblasts at him, it's been confirmed Azula was always his superior, and was re-established in the comics. Ming Hua isn't on the level of the prodigies either, nor is Ghazan who Bolin didn't even beat.

Post flight Zaheer. Pre flight Zaheer is in mid master.

Right, but even post-flight he's never shown the level of mastery Tenzin has.

Kuvira was going blow for blow with season 4 Korra. Which is why she’s in the same tier as her

When Korra had no water to use inside a metal dome? Or when she was so nerfed random underground tournament champions were beating her?

She isn’t on the level of the Red lotus, or the Gaang.

But Suyin is?

Tonraq fought both Zaheer and Unalaq and Hama fought Katara

Tonraq lost to Zaheer and Unalaq, Hama didn't last that long vs Katara after the bloodbending shenanigins ended

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Pizzagod342

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@kataraaaa:

Katara also got better in the comics

Ok. Comic Katara would be in high master

Azula was already breaking after her betrayal, and she didn't do anything except shoot basic fireblasts at him, it's been confirmed Azula was always his superior

Azula’s insanity wasn’t noticeable until the final battle. Zuko also only used basic fire blasts. I agree that Azula is stronger than Zuko but it isn’t enough for a tier difference

and was re-established in the comics.

Azula got stronger in the comics

Ming Hua isn't on the level of the prodigies either, nor is Ghazan who Bolin didn't even beat.

Considering how Zuko was hyping them up and Ghazan’s DC feats. I think they’re at least comparable and Bolin was relative to Ghazan since he countered his attacks

Right, but even post-flight he's never shown the level of mastery Tenzin has.

He showed enough mastery to fight a weakened Avatar state

When Korra had no water to use inside a metal dome? Or when she was so nerfed random underground tournament champions were beating her?

obviously, the dome. And not having water wouldn’t have affected her combat abilities that much

But Suyin is?

Yes, since she fought Kuvira.

Tonraq lost to Zaheer and Unalaq, Hama didn't last that long vs Katara after the bloodbending shenanigins ended

Losing to Zaheer, Unalaq and Katara are better feats than fighting Book 1 Katara and…. I don’t remember what else they did

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kataraaaa

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@pizzagod342 said:

Ok. Comic Katara would be in high master

Then why isn't she..

Azula’s insanity wasn’t noticeable until the final battle. Zuko also only used basic fire blasts. I agree that Azula is stronger than Zuko but it isn’t enough for a tier difference

The first part isn't true, and I'd understand this if you didn't have so many other characters who aren't near Azula in her tier.

Azula got stronger in the comics

She became more skilled with lightning and a bit more agile, that's about it. Her best feats of raw power come in the show.

Considering how Zuko was hyping them up and Ghazan’s DC feats. I think they’re at least comparable and Bolin was relative to Ghazan since he countered his attacks

Right, Zuko hyped them up and P'li was the only member who lived up to that hype. Ghazan has incredible raw power, but his lavabending is slow and he struggles to land lethal shots with it in every fight, including vs Bumi II. He's simply not fast enough to fight the prodigy girls. Ming is a one trick pony and can only fight you from CQC ranges. And she doesn't exactly excel in anything other than that, and most if not all benders have counters to that style and ways to keep her at bay effectively (even Mako did it), so the brothers being on their level isn't really saying much.

He showed enough mastery to fight a weakened Avatar state

Because of his speed and evasive abilities, not because he could actually display the high-level airbending feats Tenzin has. I agree Zaheer is extremely annoying to fight and could probably take a 1/10 majority vs basically anyone due to his physicals and flight, but having him an entire tier above someone he lost to quite badly because of an ability he showed in combat once doesn't seem right.

obviously, the dome. And not having water wouldn’t have affected her combat abilities that much

Korra is arguably the best waterbender in the verse, so yes her not having water would be a big downgrade to her combat effectiveness.

Yes, since she fought Kuvira.

I mean - there's no reason Lin couldn't fight Kuvira and perform similar. In terms of track record Lin and Suyin aren't all that different. Suyin fought Kuvira, beat a weakened Lin, and I'd say has shown better bending and speed feats overall. Lin did better vs P'li, did more in the final battle, and showed more versatility with her gear. Suyin's the better metalbender, Lin's the better earthbender. There's no reason for them to be a whole tier apart, especially since you think Kuvira's 2 tiers above Su, so obviously Suyin isn't as relative to her as you seem to imply here.

Losing to Zaheer, Unalaq and Katara are better feats than fighting Book 1 Katara and…. I don’t remember what else they did

How is losing a "good feat"? It's not like Tonraq actually did good vs either, Hama didn't hit Katara and Tonraq didn't hit Zaheer or Unalaq. JJ has the best non-comet firebending scale feat ever and Pakku showcased a lot of high level waterbending mastery both in the North Pole and during the comet.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@boutatakeanl: Kuvira was neck and neck with Korra. Combustion Man forced Aang, Katara and Toph to retreat. Mako overwhelmed Ming Hua

Korra was nerfed in their fight though? Combustion Man had the high ground the entire fight and was really distant from the team. I'd hardly consider that fair. Anyone on team Avatar, except maybe Zuko, would beat Combustion Man in neutral ground. Mako took advantage of their terrain being full of water. That's called ingenuity, and not an accurate representation of his bending prowess. Sue and Lin would both handily beat him.

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CAV_Tighten

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Most of it seems fine but why is the goofy ass colossus in top tier?

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Pizzagod342

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@kataraaaa:

Then why isn't she..

Too lazy

The first part isn't true,

It was noted that the reason that Zuko participated in the Agni Kai was because she was slipping. That’s when it actually affected her combat ability

She became more skilled with lightning and a bit more agile, that's about it. Her best feats of raw power come in the show.

She defeated Zuko pretty easily and 1v2ed Suki and Ty Lee without her bending.

Ghazan has incredible raw power, but his lavabending is slow and he struggles to land lethal shots with it in every fight, including vs Bumi II. He's simply not fast enough to fight the prodigy girls.

Ghazan can use fast paced Lavabending if he needs to. Such as when he threw molten rocks at Bolin and when he created a lava shuriken

While most of Ghazan’s attacks are slow. His AoE more than makes up for that. His earthbending and evasion in general is decently quick

Ming is a one trick pony and can only fight you from CQC ranges. And she doesn't exactly excel in anything other than that, and most if not all benders have counters to that style and ways to keep her at bay effectively (even Mako did it)

Ming has ranged attacks. Such as when she threw ice spikes at Kya. And shot a Dai Le member out of the air. Not to mention the fact that her style of CQC is extremely busted. If she managed to get a hold of them, She would probably just rag-doll them like she did Mako

Mako only overwhelmed Ming when she had no other source of water to draw from.

Because of his speed and evasive abilities, not because he could actually display the high-level airbending feats Tenzin has. I agree Zaheer is extremely annoying to fight and could probably take a 1/10 majority vs basically anyone due to his physicals and flight, but having him an entire tier above someone he lost to quite badly because of an ability he showed in combat once doesn't seem right.

I have no counter to this

Korra is arguably the best waterbender in the verse, so yes her not having water would be a big downgrade to her combat effectiveness.

isn’t that just because she has more showings using water bending? I’m pretty sure she would have mastered her other elements to at least a comparable degree.

Lin did better vs P'li, did more in the final battle, and showed more versatility with her gear.

Lin did more against P’Li but Suyin was hiding in order to attack her when she was off guard. I don’t think their performances can be compared if one of them pulls out mid fight.

I agree that Lin has more versatility but I don’t think that fighting a giant robot really translates into 1v1 skill matchups

There's no reason for them to be a whole tier apart, especially since you think Kuvira's 2 tiers above Su, so obviously Suyin isn't as relative to her as you seem to imply here.

Suyin fighting Kuvira is what puts her into the mid master tier. Like the same way fighting Thanos would make you hulk tier. The way I see it Lin doesn’t have a feat like that, Which is why She’s near the top of the low tier while Suyin is at the bottom of the mid tier.

How is losing a "good feat"? It's not like Tonraq actually did good vs either, Hama didn't hit Katara and Tonraq didn't hit Zaheer or Unalaq.

Because they managed to put put a fight against the characters they fought. JJ/Pakku have no feats of fighting anyone strong. which makes it hard to determine whether they would go above characters who do have those feats.

JJ has the best non-comet firebending scale feat ever

Greater then combustion man?

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Pizzagod342

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@cav_tighten: Korra+ Company failed multiple times to destroy it and they needed to go into the machine to best it. So I doubt that AS can just beat it like that

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Pizzagod342

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#17  Edited By Pizzagod342

@boutatakeanl:

Korra was nerfed in their fight though?

not to the point where she would be below high master.

Combustion Man had the high ground the entire fight and was really distant from the team. I'd hardly consider that fair. Anyone on team Avatar, except maybe Zuko, would beat Combustion Man in neutral ground.

Non of the Gaang’s attacks were having trouble reaching him so I don’t see what the problem is. Combustion bending in both series was shown to be so powerful that multiple characters needed to exploit their weaknesses in order to beat them.

Mako took advantage of their terrain being full of water. That's called ingenuity, and not an accurate representation of his bending prowess.

I’m talking about 5 seconds before that when He evaporated Mings water arms in 2-4 hits. Also ingenuity/battle Iq factors into a character’s overall power level

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Straight-Fire

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#18 Straight-Fire  Online

This ain't right.

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Pizzagod342

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@straight-fire: What’s wrong with it?

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kataraaaa

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@pizzagod342 said:

It was noted that the reason that Zuko participated in the Agni Kai was because she was slipping. That’s when it actually affected her combat ability

Zuko was going to fight Azula either way. He just did it alone because she was slipping, instead of having Katara for assistance. Her mental state was already slipping post-Mai/Ty Lee betrayal, and frankly the airship is the only debatably fair sequence that displays Zuko and Azula as equals, and I mean debatably strongly.

She defeated Zuko pretty easily and 1v2ed Suki and Ty Lee without her bending.

She was beating Zuko easily when she was first introduced. Suki and Ty Lee was me referencing her agility improving, but she also no-diffed Suki in the show as well without bending. So again like I said, a lot of her best showings come from the show, especially in regard to raw power.

Ghazan can use fast paced Lavabending if he needs to. Such as when he threw molten rocks at Bolin and when he created a lava shuriken

While most of Ghazan’s attacks are slow. His AoE more than makes up for that. His earthbending and evasion in general is decently quick

Bolin isn't very fast either, and it isn't a coincidence that both the feats you posted were smaller scale moves that are easily evadable or can just be negated by bending in general. His scale is entirely different and requires buildup which is consistent with all of his fights. His earthbending can be quick on the draw, but his earthbending is pretty much fodder to Toph, who you only have 2 spots above him.

Ming has ranged attacks. Such as when she threw ice spikes at Kya. And shot a Dai Le member out of the air. Not to mention the fact that her style of CQC is extremely busted. If she managed to get a hold of them, She would probably just rag-doll them like she did Mako

Your first example is fair, and it's frankly the only ranged attack she has, throwing ice spikes. Which Korra has shown are very evadable (she evaded Tarrlok's icicles at will, which were faster and had more AOE), and could be blocked by any noteworthy bender. All she did to that Dai Li agent was freeze him to a pillar after Zaheer already knocked him. Proving she can throw water and freeze it on the go, but it isn't a wide variety of ranged attacks. She can... throw small projectiles, that's it.

If it was busted then characters like Mako and Kya wouldn't be able to deal with it. Both of them failed to react to Zaheer in close-range, they never failed to react to Ming. And every high-level bender has counters for CQC style. And considering Mako could consistently evade her attack rate without much trouble (he quite literally never failed to actually dodge her attacks when he tried), then she's not touching the Beifong sisters either. Nor has she shown the power to contend with someone like Toph, Azula, or Katara.

Mako only overwhelmed Ming when she had no other source of water to draw from.

Which is irrelevant because she basically never draws water from sources and has never shown a increase in performance with more water, or a decrease in performance with less. Her best feat is vs Mako at the Inn, where she used no additional water than she had.

isn’t that just because she has more showings using water bending? I’m pretty sure she would have mastered her other elements to at least a comparable degree.

Well she has plenty of feats with every other element so it's not a sample size problem. Her best feats are just with water, which makes sense since it's her native element. She had no regular earth to bend vs Kuvira either by the way, and her metalbending is a good deal inferior to Kuvira's. So it was basically fire + air Korra vs Kuvira. Kuvira never fought Korra at her best.

Lin did more against P’Li but Suyin was hiding in order to attack her when she was off guard. I don’t think their performances can be compared if one of them pulls out mid fight.

I agree that Lin has more versatility but I don’t think that fighting a giant robot really translates into 1v1 skill matchups

I actually agree Suyin is better, I just think putting Lin an entire tier below Suyin when their track records are very similar and they're both better than the other at different things is backwards.

Suyin fighting Kuvira is what puts her into the mid master tier. Like the same way fighting Thanos would make you hulk tier. The way I see it Lin doesn’t have a feat like that, Which is why She’s near the top of the low tier while Suyin is at the bottom of the mid tier.

This is way too vague, and makes no sense because by your logic Lin should be higher due to fighting P'li then. Captain America, Spider-Man, Nebula have all "fought" Thanos. None of them are anywhere close to Hulk tier.

Because they managed to put put a fight against the characters they fought. JJ/Pakku have no feats of fighting anyone strong. which makes it hard to determine whether they would go above characters who do have those feats.

Hama didn't even do anything vs Katara, she showed a solid attack rate, that's it. Her old lady physicals were immediately taken advantage of and Katara won quite handily. Tonraq had help vs Zaheer on Laghima's Peak and didn't do anything noteworthy except block a few attacks, the first time he couldn't even beat him in the North Pole, and Unalaq stomped him.

Greater then combustion man?

Shit you tell me

Anyways no tier list is perfect those are just my disagreements

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Greysentinel365

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@boutatakeanl:

Korra was nerfed in their fight though?

not to the point where she would be below high master.

Combustion Man had the high ground the entire fight and was really distant from the team. I'd hardly consider that fair. Anyone on team Avatar, except maybe Zuko, would beat Combustion Man in neutral ground.

Non of the Gaang’s attacks were having trouble reaching him so I don’t see what the problem is. Combustion bending in both series was shown to be so powerful that multiple characters needed to exploit their weaknesses in order to beat them.

Mako took advantage of their terrain being full of water. That's called ingenuity, and not an accurate representation of his bending prowess.

I’m talking about 5 seconds before that when He evaporated Mings water arms in 2-4 hits. Also ingenuity/battle Iq factors into a character’s overall power level

- She was definitely nerfed well below her usual level man. Kuvira fighting that Korra is EASILY below Azula, Grounded Zaheer, and Katara.

- Combustion man can keep pressure on them with his massively powerful explosions. The GAANG couldn't focus on him and get a good shot in due to the range combined with his raw power. We literally see that most of their attacks were just to defend or to throw him off their trail/buy themselves some time.

It's also worth noting that Zuko, when he couldn't bend properly due to losing his rage and flawed perception of honor, was able to create an AOE fire shield that completely tanking Combustion Man's point blank shot. It only knocked him back. So when Zuko is that low, I see no logic in Sparky Sparky Boom Man being that high.

- Factoring IQ is completely fair, but again, that trick wouldn't work against Lin or Sue, would it? Both have fought greater benders and should not be below Mako, even if Ming Hua is below him, which she should be either. Just because Mako counters Ming Hua doesn't dispel the fact that Ming Hua has better showings against better benders.

A lot of the tiers look fine, but there are some misplacements IMO. Also IDK why Iroh is that high. He doesn't really have good feats. Just implied power.

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pretty decent

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Pizzagod342

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@kataraaaa:

Zuko was going to fight Azula either way. He just did it alone because she was slipping, instead of having Katara for assistance. Her mental state was already slipping post-Mai/Ty Lee betrayal,

Yet the Agni Kai was the only time that her insanity actually affected her combat ability. That’s why Zuko noticed she was slipping then and why Azula was losing that fight.

and frankly the airship is the only debatably fair sequence that displays Zuko and Azula as equals, and I mean debatably strongly.

They were also displayed as comparable in the 3 way duel.

Bolin isn't very fast either, and it isn't a coincidence that both the feats you posted were smaller scale moves that are easily evadable or can just be negated by bending in general.

It’s not like the prodigies attacks are massive heat seeking missiles that travel at the speed of sound. A lot of the prodigies attacks are small scale and easily evadable like Ghazan’s were. And I find it very hard to imagine people negate lava bending that easily. Especially the Shuriken since that was shown to be able to cut things like butter.

His scale is entirely different and requires buildup which is consistent with all of his fights. His earthbending can be quick on the draw, but his earthbending is pretty much fodder to Toph, who you only have 2 spots above him.

The above average scale of his attacks and the implication that his lava is one shot kind of makes up for the build up. And Ghazan’s lava bending counters earth bending in general

Your first example is fair, and it's frankly the only ranged attack she has, throwing ice spikes. Which Korra has shown are very evadable (she evaded Tarrlok's icicles at will, which were faster and had more AOE),

Kind of a weird argument since there isn’t a way to scale Korra to the prodigies or Tarrlok to Ming. Also Korra got tagged by the ice spikes multiple times

and could be blocked by any noteworthy bender.

Any noteworthy bender can block attacks from any other noteworthy bender

She can... throw small projectiles, that's it.

Isn’t that like half of Azula’s arsenal?

If it was busted then characters like Mako and Kya wouldn't be able to deal with it. Both of them failed to react to Zaheer in close-range, they never failed to react to Ming.

Kya was overwhelmed by Ming. Halfway through the fight she was tired alongside Bumi while the Red Lotus weren’t even out of breath. Mako straight up lost to a casual Ming the first time they fought. Also I doubt this counts as reacting

And every high-level bender has counters for CQC style.

What counters? And I don’t think that extendable water arms that can turn into sharp blades whenever she wants really counts as CQC.

And considering Mako could consistently evade her attack rate without much trouble (he quite literally never failed to actually dodge her attacks when he tried), then she's not touching the Beifong sisters either.

She tagged, grabbed and threw Mako so hard that he was knocked out and 9 times out of 10 Mako was running away.

Nor has she shown the power to contend with someone like Toph, Azula, or Katara.

She harmed Tenzin and no diffed Eska and Desna. Who created a ice forest so..

Which is irrelevant because she basically never draws water from sources and has never shown a increase in performance with more water, or a decrease in performance with less. Her best feat is vs Mako at the Inn, where she used no additional water than she had.

She was casually overwhelming Mako so I don’t see why she would need more water. She used outside water in the final Mako fight, against Kya and against Eska and Desna, and she was clearly shown to be stronger whenever she get enough water for multiple water arms.

Well she has plenty of feats with every other element so it's not a sample size problem. Her best feats are just with water, which makes sense since it's her native element. She had no regular earth to bend vs Kuvira either by the way, and her metalbending is a good deal inferior to Kuvira's. So it was basically fire + air Korra vs Kuvira. Kuvira never fought Korra at her best.

Well in my opinion. Fire/Air Korra would still be grandmaster and Korra was skilled enough in metal bending to block Kuvira’s attacks and tag her so.

This is way too vague, and makes no sense because by your logic Lin should be higher due to fighting P'li then. Captain America, Spider-Man, Nebula have all "fought" Thanos. None of them are anywhere close to Hulk tier.

Lin got stomped by P’Li and Cap, Spidey and Nebula got stomped by Thanos. I was talking about Iron Man

Hama didn't even do anything vs Katara, she showed a solid attack rate, that's it. Her old lady physicals were immediately taken advantage of and Katara won quite handily. Tonraq had help vs Zaheer on Laghima's Peak and didn't do anything noteworthy except block a few attacks, the first time he couldn't even beat him in the North Pole, and Unalaq stomped him.

Hama countered multiple attacks from Katara and was fine after being hit by her

Tonraq countered multiple attacks from Zaheer and was fine after being hit by Unalaq

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byondeon

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@pizzagod342: Link to the tier maker for these exact characters?

Cause I need to change it cause it's so bad

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Pizzagod342

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@byondeon:

https://tiermaker.com/categories/anime-and-manga/avatar-powerscale-15967992

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@pizzagod342:

Tonraq countered multiple attacks from Zaheer and was fine after being hit by Unalaq

Not in the mood to make long comments right now, but couldn't ignore this. Are you serious? How on earth was Tonraq fine after getting hit by Unalaq? He was conscious. And that's the best it gets. He was in no condition to get up, not to mention keep fighting.

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Pizzagod342

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@stratospher: the literal first attack Unalaq throws, Tonraq tanks. He threw multiple attacks in that fight

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@pizzagod342: Fixed your list, and added a few to the tier list

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I forgot to move Jeong Jeong up to above Pakku

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Pizzagod342

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@byondeon:

Why is Long Feng at the absolute bottom of the tier list when he one shot Jet?

Why is Kya in the same tier as Eska and Deska? Kya could last against Ming Hua. Who stomped Eska and Deska

Why is Zaheer in the same tier as Kya and in the tier below Tonraq? When he beat both of them??

Why is Iroh so low when he was stated to be the only one able to beat Ozai?

Why is Tokuga in skilled when he fought Korra?

Why is Opal in Mid master??

Why is Ozai below both of his children??

Why is Lin above Suyin?

Why is Kuvira below both of them?

Why is Toph above Azula?

Why is Jinora above Toph, tenzin, Unalaq, combustion man, and literally every character in mid master except Opal?

Why is old Iron not in Avatar tier?

Why is Amon in Avatar tier when AS counters bloodbending?

Why is the colossus a tier below Korra when Korra+ company failed to defeat it multiple times?

Why is Hundun above the AS when a previous avatar defeated him?

Why is Vaatu in top tier when he got stomped by both Korra and Wan? The same Wan who logically has the weakest AS in the history of avatars. The Korra who is weaker than the Dark Avatar, who you have in the tier below

Why is base form Korra in top tier?

Why is AS Korra above the literal Godzilla sized laser Kajiu???

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Stratospher

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byondeon

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@byondeon:

Why is Long Feng at the absolute bottom of the tier list when he one shot Jet?

He is that bad.

Why is Kya in the same tier as Eska and Deska? Kya could last against Ming Hua. Who stomped Eska and Deska

She would get destroyed by them. Plain and simple.

Why is Zaheer in the same tier as Kya and in the tier below Tonraq? When he beat both of them??

He is above Kya, but he is below average. With training he would be higher.

Why is Iroh so low when he was stated to be the only one able to beat Ozai?

Ozai and Iroh are overrated

Why is Tokuga in skilled when he fought Korra?

Tokuga isn't skilled enough to get higher than that.

Why is Opal in Mid master??

Cause she held off an entire army

Why is Ozai below both of his children??

They are simply better benders.

Why is Lin above Suyin?

She is a better bender.

Why is Kuvira below both of them?

Lin and Suyin have more skill than her.

Why is Toph above Azula?

Better bender and stronger.

Why is Jinora above Toph, tenzin, Unalaq, combustion man, and literally every character in mid master except Opal?

Cause she is simply the best airbender besides the avatars

Why is old Iron not in Avatar tier?

Cause he is not an avatar level character.

Why is Amon in Avatar tier when AS counters bloodbending?

Cause he is at the level of avatars outside of the state.

Why is the colossus a tier below Korra when Korra+ company failed to defeat it multiple times?

Korra is just that good.

Why is Hundun above the AS when a previous avatar defeated him?

Cause Hundun as shown in the game is FAR superior to the time he was beaten by the previous avatar 1000 years ago.

Why is Vaatu in top tier when he got stomped by both Korra and Wan? The same Wan who logically has the weakest AS in the history of avatars. The Korra who is weaker than the Dark Avatar, who you have in the tier below

Cause he at his best is above Avatars. Just as Raava is above that level at her best.

Why is base form Korra in top tier?

She is simply better than everyone else besides the Kaijus and AS Korra.

Why is AS Korra above the literal Godzilla sized laser Kajiu???

Cause she is the strongest in the verse.

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byondeon

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@byondeon: Can't say which list is worse.

Mine is correct, your list isn't. The only thing is that I forgot to put Jeong Jeong above Pakku

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Stratospher

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@byondeon: I didn't make any lists. "Correct" is a good one though.

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byondeon

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@byondeon: I didn't make any lists. "Correct" is a good one though.

Don't know why I read his name as yours. My bad.

But mine is correct..

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Pizzagod342

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@byondeon:

He is that bad.

He one shot Jet. Therefore he should be above Jet

She would get destroyed by them. Plain and simple.

If they destroy Kya then why did they get stomped by Ming Hua?

He is above Kya

Why isn't he above Tonraq?

but he is below average. With training he would be higher.

He knocked out Kya twice and defeated the backup she called and defeated Tonraq while Korra was helping him. He's easily a tier above both of them

Ozai and Iroh are overrated

Will get to Ozai later but Zuko has literally stated that Iroh was the only one who could stand up to Ozai. There's no reason for them to be in different tiers

Tokuga isn't skilled enough to get higher than that.

Tokuga defeated Korra. Yet he's in skilled? What's next Suki > Korra?

Cause she held off an entire army

She blew away some fodder. S1 Aang stopped a volcano

They are simply better benders.

WoG stating Ozai is the strongest fire bender

Azula herself stating that she couldn't beat Ozai in a duel

Zuko stating that Iroh is the only one who can stand up to Ozai

Azula, Zuko and even the Writers disagree with you

She is a better bender.

Suyin fought Kuvira. The same character that went blow for blow with season 4 Korra. Non of Lin's feats compare to that

Lin and Suyin have more skill than her.

Suyin couldn't land a single hit on Kuvira while Kuvira landed multiple hits and kicked her off the platform they were fighting on. Neither Lin or Suyin can fight Korra the way Kuvira did.

Better bender and stronger.

Toph hasn't fought a single strong character in the show seriously and there is nothing that suggests that she's stronger than Azula.

Cause she is simply the best airbender besides the avatars

Feats that get her past S1 Aang?

Cause he is not an avatar level character.

Fights 2 avatars.

not avatar level

Ok

Cause he is at the level of avatars outside of the state.

Avatars aren't avatar level without AS

Korra is just that good.

If she is that good then why did she fail to destroy it with help? Why did they need prep+ people sacrificing their lives just to pierce it's skin?

Cause Hundun as shown in the game is FAR superior to the time he was beaten by the previous avatar 1000 years ago.

Avatars got stronger as well. Korra literally stated that the avatars have gotten stronger since the beginning of time

Cause he at his best is above Avatars. Just as Raava is above that level at her best.

Neither of them have any scaling that puts them above the avatars

She is simply better than everyone else besides the Kaijus and AS Korra.

You realize that this is the same character that was matched by Tokuga and Kuvira right?

Cause she is the strongest in the verse.

Loading Video...

There's no evidence that she surpassed Unalaq, much less his giant form

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byondeon

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@byondeon:

He is that bad.

He one shot Jet. Therefore he should be above Jet

Did you actually, you know, watch the fight between Team Avatar and Jet vs Dai Li and Long Feng?

She would get destroyed by them. Plain and simple.

If they destroy Kya then why did they get stomped by Ming Hua?

Why did Kya get destroyed by her?

He is above Kya

Why isn't he above Tonraq?

Cause he never actually beat Tonraq. Tonraq was matching him all their fights and even surpassed him.

but he is below average. With training he would be higher.

He knocked out Kya twice and defeated the backup she called and defeated Tonraq while Korra was helping him. He's easily a tier above both of them

No. He couldn't do anything to him when Tonraq was only using a small amount of water.

Ozai and Iroh are overrated

Will get to Ozai later but Zuko has literally stated that Iroh was the only one who could stand up to Ozai. There's no reason for them to be in different tiers

And Mako, Zuko and Azula would all 1 v 2 them

Tokuga isn't skilled enough to get higher than that.

Tokuga defeated Korra. Yet he's in skilled? What's next Suki > Korra?

Do you really think that that makes him actually skilled. There is no way you think that Tokuga would beat anyone that isn't actually above all other characters than AS avatars and the strongest spirits..

Cause she held off an entire army

She blew away some fodder. S1 Aang stopped a volcano

Did you.. Watch what actually happened? Cause she did, in fact, hold away an entire army by herself. And frankly,

They are simply better benders.

WoG stating Ozai is the strongest fire bender

Azula herself stating that she couldn't beat Ozai in a duel

Zuko stating that Iroh is the only one who can stand up to Ozai

Azula, Zuko and even the Writers disagree with you

If they did, they wouldn't make Ozai and Iroh the weakest firebenders of them all.

She is a better bender.

Suyin fought Kuvira. The same character that went blow for blow with season 4 Korra. Non of Lin's feats compare to that

Suyin outskilled Kuvira.

Lin and Suyin have more skill than her.

Suyin couldn't land a single hit on Kuvira while Kuvira landed multiple hits and kicked her off the platform they were fighting on. Neither Lin or Suyin can fight Korra the way Kuvira did.

You didn't watch the fight did you? Kuvira would get her ass handed to her by Korra. And Lin and Suyin would beat Kuvira in the giant mecha.

Better bender and stronger.

Toph hasn't fought a single strong character in the show seriously and there is nothing that suggests that she's stronger than Azula.

When Azula match Bumi, you might have a point.

Cause she is simply the best airbender besides the avatars

Feats that get her past S1 Aang?

Spirit projection, holding off an army that had Kuvira struggling keeping herself on the ground.

Cause he is not an avatar level character.

Fights 2 avatars.

not avatar level

Ok

It is literally stated that Old Iron have less power than 3 combustion benders.

Cause he is at the level of avatars outside of the state.

Avatars aren't avatar level without AS

They are, indeed, avatar level without the AS. Avatar level is how good avatars are with and without the AS.

Korra is just that good.

If she is that good then why did she fail to destroy it with help? Why did they need prep+ people sacrificing their lives just to pierce it's skin?

She is just that strong. She can, in fact, get through the metal.

Cause Hundun as shown in the game is FAR superior to the time he was beaten by the previous avatar 1000 years ago.

Avatars got stronger as well. Korra literally stated that the avatars have gotten stronger since the beginning of time

Not really, as Szeto is below Wan, so no. Their powers doesn't depend on the place in the avatar cycle they are.

Cause he at his best is above Avatars. Just as Raava is above that level at her best.

Neither of them have any scaling that puts them above the avatars

Except they do.

She is simply better than everyone else besides the Kaijus and AS Korra.

You realize that this is the same character that was matched by Tokuga and Kuvira right?

You realize that Kuvira saw Korra's true power and realized that noone is a match for Korra right? She literally have the 3 single best feats in Avatar. Granted, one of them is due to Harmonic Convergence.

Cause she is the strongest in the verse.

Loading Video...

There's no evidence that she surpassed Unalaq, much less his giant form

Uh.. Are you okay? Cause I don't think you actually watched the show. I highly doubt you watched either show. She have the 3 best feats in the verse.

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Stratospher

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#40  Edited By Stratospher

@pizzagod342:

He knocked out Kya twice and defeated the backup she called and defeated Tonraq while Korra was helping him. He's easily a tier above both of them

He's not. Tonraq had a very limited source of water and Korra was heavily restrained. Tonraq completely stalemated Zaheer in the north for the entire encounter, while Ming was freeing P'li and slowly climbing back up, and even tanked a ground slam combo from Zaheer that he later used to knock out Korra despite her great durability.

She blew away some fodder. S1 Aang stopped a volcano

He didn't stop a volcano, he cooled a large splash of lava.

Suyin fought Kuvira. The same character that went blow for blow with season 4 Korra. Non of Lin's feats compare to that

Except the fact that Lin is relative to Suyin because of their fight.

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Tektonic

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Okay a few takeaways: @pizzagod342

  • I don't think there is much to argue for the top three tiers. They are relatively straightforward not saying there aren't arguments for who is slightly better than who but it's all relative
  • Unalaq should be in the same tier as the Avatars/Ozai/Iroh considering he was Korra's strongest opponent
  • I don't necessarily see Kuvira as an actual peer to Korra like Unalaq was. Sure she fought a restricted Korra in the mech to a relative stalemate(Korra had the advantage though in landed hits, techniques). But she can't do that outside the mech like Unalaq, and ROTE made it clear Korra along with everyone was confident she could easily take down Kuvira whenever.
Loading Video...
    • Korra blatantly tells Kuvira she'll take her down if she steps out of line
    • Korra is ready to smack her down at Gaoling
    • Korra tells Asami she'll toss Kuvira back in her restraints if she tries anything
    • Guan waits until Korra leaves to attack Kuvira and Co
    • Guan prepares an entire underground encampment to try and ambush Korra
    • Korra ensnares Kuvira in a lasso of fire ready to cook her
    • Korra outperforms and protects eveyron at the Goaling battle
    • Korra one shots Mako/Bolin whom Kuvira had to flee
  • Agree with Kya>Desna and Eska. Sometimes you need to take portrayal at face value. Desna and Eska were losing to Korra, Tonraq, and got stomped by Ming Hua, all in waterbending. Kya doing way better against Ming secures her placement above them, even if they have larger scale feats.
  • Also agree with Kuvira>Lin and Suyin, not sure why this is even a debate. She's a better metalbender, defeated the better duelist of the two(Suyin), and has better statements.
  • Tonraq should be relative to Zaheer given their North Pole stalemate
  • Don't have much of an opinion on the rest

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#42  Edited By Azronger

Plenty of problems here that I see, but I don't think much except some of the more egregious placements need to be changed unless you want to. I can of course justify my opinions, but take this more as a guideline rather than holy scripture:

Starting from the top:

  1. You should demarcate the Avatar tier from a separate Avatar State tier, because at the moment several characters are on the latter when they belong to the former: General Old Iron, Hundun, and Vaatu all got stomped against Yangchen, Korra, and Wan, respectively, once they activated their Avatar States. If you believe Old Iron merits your current placement because of his scuffle with Aang, that's because not all Avatar States, or their channelers, are equally powerful: Yangchen fought Old Iron for an entire night to a stalemate in her base form, and upon activating the Avatar State the fight was over in moments, but Aang required the Avatar State to match him in the first place; Roku's full efforts went into combating a single volcano whereas Szeto casually bends four; and Aang notes in the novelization of "Sozin's Comet" that the Avatar State against Ozai is more powerful than any of his previous times. And other characters that should be in the Avatar tier are missing altogether from your list: Roku, Yangchen, and arguably Kuruk, and you could even insert Comet-amped firebenders in that tier for completeness's sake. Full moon Katara and Hama ought to go in the bloodbender tier as well.
  2. Why are a non-bending Tokuga and Kuvira in the Grand Master tier? Kuvira went toe-to-toe with Korra, but it was in a favorable environment to her and unfavorable to her adversary (no water or earth). I think Kuvira's an excellent fighter and quite underrated on this forum, but I don't think she's Grand Master-level - none of her accomplishments match Unalaq (who should be in Grand Master after his fusion with Vaatu) and Korra's titanic battle, or what Ozai can realistically do, and has done, even bereft of the Comet's amplification, or King Bumi's retaking of Omashu (also ought to be in Grand Master). I would put Kuvira in High Master, but not Grand Master, and characters besides those I mentioned that ought to be included or raised are Yun, Gyatso, Tenzin, Azula, Toph, Katara, P'li, and full moon Pakku.
  3. In my opinion, High Master ought to include: Combustion Man (already there), Hei-Ran (missing), Jeong Jeong (too low), Sozin (missing), Kelsang (missing), Flight Zaheer (already there), pre-fusion Unalaq (already there), novel Kyoshi (missing), Jianzhu (missing), and Kuvira (too high).
  4. Mid Master: Zuko (already there), Ming-Hua (already there), Pakku (too low), Lin (too low), and Suyin (already there). I think it's fine for some of the more speculative characters like Hei-Ran, Sozin, etc. to be here instead of High Master if you prefer more concrete showings over things like inference, reputation, and accolades, but I believe this should be their floor since I don't think they could reasonably be as venerated in the lore if they were much weaker - Sozin is a known dragon-slayer, for example. On the other hand, some characters like Mako and Bolin do not belong here whatsoever, and I don't think Ghazan or Huu do either.
  5. Low Master: Iroh II (missing but could go a tier lower if you, again, prefer more concrete feats), Rangi (missing but could go to Mid Master depending on how you're feeling, although she should probably always be at least one tier beneath her mother), pre-flight Zaheer (already there), Tagaka (missing), Huu (too high), and Ghazan (too high). People like Hama, Tonraq, Kya, Mako and Bolin are all just short of this tier: Zaheer has bested Tonraq and Kya both (the former while fighting chained Korra on the side), and, in the words of one of the creators, treated Mako like a "little boy"; and Ghazan was clearly Bolin's superior in the lavabending match. Zhao, Long Feng, the Lieutenant, and Jet do not belong here either.
  6. You should probably lower most of the people from the Skilled tier to a brand new tier in between Skilled and Foot Soldier, and then put most of the people I mentioned there, because there is enough variance in ability to warrant it - even though Mako and company may not quite be what I would call "masters," they're not fodder either and don't deserve to be lumped in with the likes of Opal or Hakoda.
  7. You're missing quite a few relevant names on the lower end such as Ty Lee and Sokka, but honestly I don't really care enough about the bottom rung to compile an extensive list.
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Pizzagod342

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@byondeon:

Did you actually, you know, watch the fight between Team Avatar and Jet vs Dai Li and Long Feng?

Long Feng >>> Jet

Why did Kya get destroyed by her?

Kya countered multiple attacks from Ming and landed a massive attack that sent her flying.

Eska and Deska couldn’t land a single hit and got stomped the second she got close

It’s not that hard

Cause he never actually beat Tonraq.

Tonraq was matching him all their fights and even surpassed him.

Did he surpass him in a deleted scene? Because he never fights Zaheer again after being yeeted off that mountain

No. He couldn't do anything to him when Tonraq was only using a small amount of water.

I already posted Zaheer throwing Tonraq off a mountain

And Mako, Zuko and Azula would all 1 v 2 them

If they are strong enough to 1v2 them. Then how come both Zuko and Azula state that they couldn’t 1v1 Ozai?

Do you really think that that makes him actually skilled.

If character A beats Character B then A is comparable if not stronger than B. That’s basic logic

There is no way you think that Tokuga would beat anyone that isn't actually above all other characters than AS avatars and the strongest spirits..

1- You haven’t even proven that Korra is above all other characters

2- even if you could prove that. Tokuga still beat Korra

Did you.. Watch what actually happened? Cause she did, in fact, hold away an entire army by herself. And frankly,

All the tornado did was blow away fodder. Aang’s feats during the volcano episode were far greater.

If they did, they wouldn't make Ozai and Iroh the weakest firebenders of them all.

”Calls Ozai and Iroh the weakest fire benders”

”Asks me if I watched the show”

Ok

Suyin outskilled Kuvira.

Please tell me one time when she actually got clean hits in against Kuvira

You didn't watch the fight did you? Kuvira would get her ass handed to her by Korra. And Lin and Suyin would beat Kuvira in the giant mecha.

I’m trying to find the part where Kuvira got her ass handed to her.

When Azula match Bumi, you might have a point.

S1 Aang matched Bumi

Spirit projection

notice how that’s absolutely useless in a fight.

holding off an army

Let’s assume that she actually held off an army. What Aang did in that Volcano required far greater AP

Kuvira struggling keeping herself on the ground.

This isn’t Dragon Ball. Any character can affect Kuvira using their powers or gear.

It is literally stated that Old Iron have less power than 3 combustion benders.

Feats >>> Statements. Old Iron fighting Avatars >>> combustion bending

They are, indeed, avatar level without the AS. Avatar level is how good avatars are with and without the AS.

Without AS avatars are far weaker and can be threatened/overwhelmed by normal characters. Such as Ozai, Kuvira and Tokuga

She is just that strong. She can, in fact, get through the metal.

Then why didn’t she?

Not really, as Szeto is below Wan, so no. Their powers doesn't depend on the place in the avatar cycle they are.

Szeto bending 4 volcanos >>> Wan. Roku literally states that the avatar state is the combination of every past life giving there energy to the current avatar.

Szeto is automatically above Wan due to Wan + the other avatars giving him his power

Except they do.

So what is it then?

You realize that Kuvira saw Korra's true power and realized that noone is a match for Korra right?

When was this?

She literally have the 3 single best feats in Avatar. Granted, one of them is due to Harmonic Convergence.

No she doesn’t. The top 3 feats in avatar don’t even happen in LoK

1- Kuruk sinking Yangchen’s island

2- Kyoshi creating Kyoshi Island

3- Yangchen moving clouds

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Pizzagod342

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#44  Edited By Pizzagod342

@stratospher:

He's not. Tonraq had a very limited source of water and Korra was heavily restrained. Tonraq completely stalemated Zaheer in the north for the entire encounter, while Ming was freeing P'li and slowly climbing back up, and even tanked a ground slam combo from Zaheer that he later used to knock out Korra despite her great durability.

Yeah Tonraq did have a small source of water but Korra even restrained was still giving good support to him while he fought Zaheer

Tonraq had the home-field advantage when fighting Zaheer in the north. Fighting in a location made of water does wonders for a waterbender’s power level

example being


He didn't stop a volcano, he cooled a large splash of lava.

Still better then what Opal/Jinora did

Except the fact that Lin is relative to Suyin because of their fight.

Ok you have a point there

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Stratospher

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@pizzagod342:

Yeah Tonraq did have a small source of water but Korra even restrained was still giving good support to him while he fought Zaheer

Which is still a very significant restriction compared to unlimited supply of water that helped him stalemate Zaheer earlier by himself. It wasn't a fair compensation at all. They were both heavily nerfed and did worse than Tonraq did on his own without restrictions.

Still better then what Opal/Jinora did

Different circumstance. We don't know if Aang's feat would've stopped an army, we don't know if their tornado would've cooled that lava.

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Pizzagod342

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@tektonic:

Unalaq should be in the same tier as the Avatars/Ozai/Iroh considering he was Korra's strongest opponent

I don’t think he really has the feats for that. Also Post flight Zaheer would beat Unalaq

I don't necessarily see Kuvira as an actual peer to Korra like Unalaq was. Sure she fought a restricted Korra in the mech to a relative stalemate(Korra had the advantage though in landed hits, techniques). But she can't do that outside the mech like Unalaq, and ROTE made it clear Korra along with everyone was confident she could easily take down Kuvira whenever.

The people have spoken. Kuvira is now high master

Tonraq should be relative to Zaheer given their North Pole stalemate

Being in the poles makes Tonraq stronger due to fighting in an environment completely made out of water. B1 Zuko was stronger than B1 Katara and look what happened during the North Pole

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Stratospher

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#47  Edited By Stratospher

@pizzagod342:

Being in the poles makes Tonraq stronger due to fighting in an environment completely made out of water. B1 Zuko was stronger than B1 Katara and look what happened during the North Pole

The same goes for fighting any earthbender in pretty much every location. The only thing unfair about fighting a waterbender in the poles is either lack of material for earthbenders or firebending being nerfed by low temperature. Airbenders are not affected by the poles in any way. Also, Zuko lost this fight because it was full moon, and because he went through a freezing hell both on his way to Aang and later through ice tundra dragging Aang's body, while Katara was chilling for the most part.

Also Post flight Zaheer would beat Unalaq

I wonder how is this going to happen.

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Tektonic

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@tektonic:

I don’t think he really has the feats for that. Also Post flight Zaheer would beat Unalaq

Unalaq showcased far better mastery of his element than either Ozai or Iroh ever did. Just like Iroh he has invented sub-elements as well.

Void Zaheer would defeat most combatants though I don't see how Post-Fusion Unalaq would be on that list. Since he was also capable of keeping up with Avatar State attacks. While Zaheer is still faster, Unalaq can keep up and has a crazy arsenal of techniques.

Unalaq/Ozai/Yun/Thapa are the most dangerous villains of their respective era's.

Being in the poles makes Tonraq stronger due to fighting in an environment completely made out of water. B1 Zuko was stronger than B1 Katara and look what happened during the North Pole

He may have had access to large quantities of ice and water, but he still only used small attacks against Zaheer to keep pace.

And Katara wrecked a severely weakened Zuko with the full moon enhancing her.

No she doesn’t. The top 3 feats in avatar don’t even happen in LoK

1- Kuruk sinking Yangchen’s island

2- Kyoshi creating Kyoshi Island

3- Yangchen moving clouds

I'd say the top 3 feats are Korra's spirit portal feat, Kyoshi creating an island and Szeto's volcano feat.

Kuruk sank an atoll(very tiny speck of an island) after a unknown amount of time. There are many better AS feats than that.

Yangchen moving clouds shows giant range but the power isn't that great, she wasn't busting anything, not even the trees or grass.! Even her latest AS feat in Legacy is her pushing a old moderatly sized building structure aside. Comparing her to AS Korra:

Korra knocked away and damaged four large battleships, blasted an army of dark spirits away, lifted an entire hill up to a mountain top, and blocked a bomb that vaporized downtown republic city.

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RonnyLamar

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#50  Edited By RonnyLamar

Iroh is too high he has hype and no good feats

Tenzin.Unalaq.Kuvira.Pli.Katara.Pakku

Combustion man all above Iroh.

You mist be a iroh stan