Avatar: Should Tenzin Be Part of the "Excellent Eight?"

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CocaColaMan

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Poll Avatar: Should Tenzin Be Part of the "Excellent Eight?" (17 votes)

Yes 76%
No 24%

The Son of the Avatar

For those of you who don't know what the Excellent Eight are, it's my personal group of eight benders who I believe are the best representatives of the top tier/prodigy/grandmaster etc. tier of bending. They aren't the only people on this tier, nor necessarily the strongest, but they have the most representation on the Battles forums and elsewhere.

  • Azula
  • Dark Avatar Unalaq
  • Firelord Ozai
  • Iroh
  • Katara
  • King Bumi
  • Toph Beifong
  • Yun

Now here's where we come to Tenzin. I consider Tenzin as sort of the "gatekeeper" to the top tiers of the verse, so I call him the "Gatekeeper to the Excellent Eight." Basically, if you can beat Tenzin for a majority, you're on that level. If you lose to Tenzin, which most do (solidly) they are not on that level. The only exception to this rule is Toph, who only loses to Tenzin because of an inherent weakness that Tenzin can easily exploit, and is otherwise on the same exact level as two others in the group. I put Tenzin here because I hold Tenzin as being at the very top of the "high tiers"/very bottom of the "low tiers," arguably in his own little level.

But some have disputed my little thing here, saying that Tenzin should be part of the Excellent Eight, since he is used more commonly than others on this level such as fellow airbenders Kelsang and Gyatso. Common claims include:

  • Tenzin is better than Toph
  • Tenzin can beat/give great fights to the other prodigy girls, Iroh and/or Unalaq
  • Tenzin's feats are on that level overall even if he can't beat them

And people have also started taking me to fictional court with lawyers and etc. trying to argue that Unalaq shouldn't be on the Excellent Eight since one could consider him as the equivalent of a single-element Avatar, who I purposefully exclude from the Excellent Eight.

What are y'all's thoughts? Should I add Tenzin to the "Excellent Eight" and expand it? Or is it fine as is?

 • 
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SupremeGeneration

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Obviously

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CocaColaMan

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MinhCake

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#4  Edited By MinhCake

I personally do have him in the Top 8, though he's def at around the bottom part of that section, can see where the contention with his placing comes from.

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geekryan

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I'd replace Iroh with Tenzin TBH

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ANTHP2000

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CryoLancer47

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#7  Edited By CryoLancer47

@cocacolaman: What blasphemy is this? You considered this clown. But not these three beasts:

No Caption Provided

Each one of these fine gentlemen, can solo your fodder team with the clap of their cheeks.

I think this guy is more worthy of being in the squad than Tenzin:

No Caption Provided

Especially when you consider how impressive he was after only 10 episodes of his introduction, in comparison to Tenzin. Who had 2 books to showcase his skills at that point. And still seemed weaker than Zaheer.

No Caption Provided

LOL

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geekryan

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#9  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

tenzin > iroh or bumi

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CocaColaMan

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geekryan

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#11  Edited By geekryan
@cocacolaman said:
@geekryan said:

I'd replace Iroh with Tenzin TBH

@emmafrostxmen said:

tenzin > iroh or bumi

Why?

I think Tenzin would beat Iroh in a fight.

Also, your list already has 2 other firebenders.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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CryoLancer47

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@geekryan: How did he "STOMP" Zaheer exactly? If you mean when he threw him, Ghazan & Ming Hua to the wall. That was via a surprise attack when they weren't ready. Does that mean Tenzin stomps the three members of TRL?

Zaheer showcased the ability to outmanuver (him going over Tenzin after blocking attack from him.), and keep up with Tenzin during their brief fight. As well as block, and land a hit before we cut away to Ming Hua & Ghazan vs Tenzins' siblings.

A stomp would imply that one side was beating the other without having any form of difficulty. Which Is definitely not the case with what we saw of Zaheer Vs Tenzin.

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CryoLancer47

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#14  Edited By CryoLancer47

@emmafrostxmen:How is Tenzin more impressive than King Bumi?

I think this explains of a take this is:

Bumi is too much of a big gun. And has too big of a hax, mobility, and raw power advantage over Team 1, and a vast majority of other benders. He can dig underground and move freely around great distances. Man can also throw entire buildings at you. Which is something I don't think either on team 1 has a way to deal with. He can also propel himself high up and drown you in quicksand. As well as his speed allowing him to compete with Aang.

King Bumi and Tenzin are as far from each other as the sun and moon. If Zaheer can keep up with, and outmanuver him during their fight, before landing a hit. Then that just proves that he's nowhere near Bumi. Who's feats are considered to be THE best earth-bending feats in Canon. Plus his skill definitely being >>> Tenzin's.

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eslay03

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No.

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chloros

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I think we need an airbender in the mix, so I'll say yes! Make it the nifty nine! :p

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SupremeGeneration

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Tenzin was kicking Zaheer's ass what da ducks

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SupremeGeneration

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  • Tenzin is better than Toph
    • This is true
  • Tenzin can beat/give great fights to the other prodigy girls, Iroh and/or Unalaq
    • Idk about Iroh, but Tenzin beats Toph, can beat Azula, and has a good argument against Katara
  • Tenzin's feats are on that level overall even if he can't beat them
    • Except he can beat them

Also Unalaq is an Avatar etc

And frankly if you think people think Tenzin can beat Unalaq who's basically an Avatar that should tell you all you need to know

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geekryan

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@geekryan: How did he "STOMP" Zaheer exactly? If you mean when he threw him, Ghazan & Ming Hua to the wall. That was via a surprise attack when they weren't ready. Does that mean Tenzin stomps the three members of TRL?

Zaheer showcased the ability to outmanuver (him going over Tenzin after blocking attack from him.), and keep up with Tenzin during their brief fight. As well as block, and land a hit before we cut away to Ming Hua & Ghazan vs Tenzins' siblings.

A stomp would imply that one side was beating the other without having any form of difficulty. Which Is definitely not the case with what we saw of Zaheer Vs Tenzin.

Zaheer did not land a single hit on Tenzin. He knew he could not beat Tenzin and mostly tried to evade, but the few times he fought back, not once did he tag Tenzin.

Meanwhile, Tenzin tagged Zaheer three times. While Zaheer was downed from the last hit and Tenzin was about to end it, P'Li intervened.

And then, even while fighting off all of the Red Lotus, he still managed to take a hit from Zaheer and hit him back.

The only way Zaheer would be able to put up a fight against Tenzin is when he unlocked flight. Before then, he didn't stand a chance.

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Azronger

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Make it the nonpareil nine.

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CryoLancer47

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#21  Edited By CryoLancer47

@geekryan:

Zaheer did not land a single hit on Tenzin. He knew he could not beat Tenzin and mostly tried to evade, but the few times he fought back, not once did he tag Tenzin.

It's implied that he did after outmanuvering him, and them launching that air attack when Tenzin still had his backturned (start at 3:06):

Loading Video...

Which is quite impressive consider Zaheer only got his air bending recently. So outmanuvering a guy like Tenzin, is noteworthy feat.

Either way, if we use the Zaheer from the Tenzin fight, then sure. He doesn't qualify to be on the Eight. But Zaheer with all his showings, definitely does. Especially after his great demonstration against a poisoned AS Korra. Who was still pretty powerful:

While Zaheer was formidable even before unlocking this, he reached a whole new level when he discovered the power of flight.

Dodging a pillar slam and three high speed earth projectiles from Korra.
Dodging a pillar slam and three high speed earth projectiles from Korra.
Dodging more earth projectiles from Korra.
Dodging more earth projectiles from Korra.
Outpacing a bloodlusted (although poisoned) AS.
Outpacing a bloodlusted (although poisoned) AS.
Using airbending to reverse Korra's tackle.
Using airbending to reverse Korra's tackle.
Demonstrates excellent range and good accuracy.
Demonstrates excellent range and good accuracy.

Would love to see an argument for Tenzin replicating the above. If even early pre-flight Zaheer could keep up and outmanuver him/block his hits and tank them.

Pre-flight Zaheer isn't worthy of being on the team. But you need a damn good counter to say that Tenzin is, without a doubt. Better than Post-flight Zaheer. And can replicate the feats above against the Bloodlusted AS Korra.

Trying to make Zaheer look weak, and claiming that he got stomped by Tenzin, is baseless. The guy was a novice with his bending. But still kept up with, and blocked/tanked hits from a serious Tenzin. And he only got stronger from then on.

Using your logic. Anyone who has managed to press/beat a character in a decent/good fight, when they were at their early stages. Can definitely do the same to them at their absolute Peak.

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SupremeGeneration

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Tenzin:

  • Surprise attacks three RL while at basically point blank range and floors all three of them for what appears to be a dozen or so, probably less, seconds
  • Walked through point blank attacks from Zaheer after casually jumping up on to a ledge, which the latter had to do multiple maneuvers to do
  • Contrary to Zaheer, when Tenzin jumped over over him he landed and attacked, actually landing his shot

Zaheer:

  • Was seen immediately on the run and defensive against Tenzin, jumping up and getting tagged mid flip
  • Was running even after, landing and got caught looking the wrong way and paying for it with a mid flip hit
  • Jumped over Tenzin one time and shot, with zero indication whatsoever of it landing especially when one considers Tenzin was casually lol-ing this dude
    • If we assume the cut from fight at 3:09 and back to 6:31 were back-to-back (it certainly seems that way, as Zaheer at 3:09 attacked in the middle of a handstand and he's clearly not standing up after the attack Tenzin blocks at 6:31, however this may not be the case) then the attack didn't land and Tenzin showed him what true mastery looks like immediately after

The most damning part is when, after taking a surprise P'li explosion from the side + a surprise attack from both Ming Hua and Ghazan, then some more punishment from Ghazan/Zaheer on the side, the dude does this:

Book 3: The Ultimatum
Book 3: The Ultimatum

Zaheer looked like a slowpoke here, he watched Ghazan get sent flying, watched Ming Hua attack, and then did he decide to airkick only to get it dodged and get blasted tf away. How anyone can watch this knowing the context and come to the conclusion that Zaheer is on his level will forever be beyond me. Zaheer literally spent an entire fight running from him. Unless this suddenly has another name?

The only one of the eight that Zaheer would beat is Toph and that's because she can't see him.

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Reyne-TheAbyss

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#23  Edited By Reyne-TheAbyss

Flight is cool though.

Fletcher is just pissed he can't fly.

I don't think Zaheer should be categorized as a prodigy. He already new the stuff, but now the stuff could make wooshes.

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VengefulParadox

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I think Tenzin beats Azula, Iroh, and Ozai pretty soundly. Azula stands the best chance with lightning but the likelyhood of her getting it off when Tenzin comes from an era where he knows firebenders can abuse lightning, just isnt there. Not to mention the Hard counter to fire and while he can beat Toph it relies on a few factors because without plot its really no reason she wont resort to AoE or shrapnel based attacks. That to me is more than enough to put Tenzin in that category; because outside of avatars the best benders in the verse havent really changed:

Katara-Water
Azula - Fire
Toph - Earth
Tenzin - Air

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MinhCake

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In my case I just feel Tenzin's superior to Toph; in a Ranking system standard that is, where her Sense-exploitability drags her down a bit from ranking her amongst the Top Tiers a bit for me, and where Tenzin's just the more consistent (and similarly capable) combatant.

I also view Tenzin on par with Azula & Katara, tend to toss-up between which of them beats who (view on that changes basically every other day-), but I see them at an even enough pace to have Tenzin in the same general Group, even if he'd be at around the bottom of it lol.

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geekryan

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Tenzin:

  • Surprise attacks three RL while at basically point blank range and floors all three of them for what appears to be a dozen or so, probably less, seconds
  • Walked through point blank attacks from Zaheer after casually jumping up on to a ledge, which the latter had to do multiple maneuvers to do
  • Contrary to Zaheer, when Tenzin jumped over over him he landed and attacked, actually landing his shot

Zaheer:

  • Was seen immediately on the run and defensive against Tenzin, jumping up and getting tagged mid flip
  • Was running even after, landing and got caught looking the wrong way and paying for it with a mid flip hit
  • Jumped over Tenzin one time and shot, with zero indication whatsoever of it landing especially when one considers Tenzin was casually lol-ing this dude
    • If we assume the cut from fight at 3:09 and back to 6:31 were back-to-back (it certainly seems that way, as Zaheer at 3:09 attacked in the middle of a handstand and he's clearly not standing up after the attack Tenzin blocks at 6:31, however this may not be the case) then the attack didn't land and Tenzin showed him what true mastery looks like immediately after

The most damning part is when, after taking a surprise P'li explosion from the side + a surprise attack from both Ming Hua and Ghazan, then some more punishment from Ghazan/Zaheer on the side, the dude does this:

Book 3: The Ultimatum
Book 3: The Ultimatum

Zaheer looked like a slowpoke here, he watched Ghazan get sent flying, watched Ming Hua attack, and then did he decide to airkick only to get it dodged and get blasted tf away. How anyone can watch this knowing the context and come to the conclusion that Zaheer is on his level will forever be beyond me. Zaheer literally spent an entire fight running from him. Unless this suddenly has another name?

The only one of the eight that Zaheer would beat is Toph and that's because she can't see him.

@cryolancer47 This pretty much sums it up.

Zaheer being a "novice" with his airbending doesn't change the fact that he still got smoked by Tenzin.

Keep in mind that Zaheer was considered a massive threat even before getting airbending.

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byondeon

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tenzin > iroh or bumi

Tenzin above Iroh, yes, definitely. Not above Bumi though. Honestly, the only airbender that can match Bumi is Aang, and possibly Korra.

Also, am I the only one that actually think that Iroh is one of, if not the most overrated bender in the franchise?

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CryoLancer47

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@supremegeneration: @geekryan:

So you're both literally using a weaker version of the character to lowball, and say he loses even after he got stronger and clearly improved enough to tag, and keep up with a Bloodlusted AS Korra? Are you serious?

Loading Video...

Zaheer clearly got stronger, and more skilled post-flight. And his display against the Bloodlusted Korra, who casually does this stuff like ripping giant rocks and flings them at him, as well as managing to keep up with his flight is definitely >> Tenzin. And Zaheer tagged her, and kept up. Although, with high-diff. Which is still more impressive than Tenzin beating a less powerful Zaheer. And getting outmanuvered by him and tagged.

So unless you have anything else to prove Tenzin > is Peak Zaheer. other than using low-ends of an earlier version. Despite that weaker version keeping up and actually blocking some of Tenzin's attacks. As well as outmanuvering him. And using the "Zaheer was dangerous before bending" excuse. As if that means he can perform as well as he did against anyone without it.

Then all that you showed proves nothing. And has no effect on my argument that post-flight Zaheer is > Tenzin.

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geekryan

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@supremegeneration: @geekryan:

So you're both literally using a weaker version of the character to lowball, and say he loses even after he got stronger and clearly improved enough to tag, and keep up with a Bloodlusted AS Korra? Are you serious?

Loading Video...

Zaheer clearly got stronger, and more skilled post-flight. And his display against the Bloodlusted Korra, who casually does this stuff like ripping giant rocks and flings them at him, as well as managing to keep up with his flight is definitely >> Tenzin. And Zaheer tagged her, and kept up. Although, with high-diff. Which is still more impressive than Tenzin beating a less powerful Zaheer. And getting outmanuvered by him and tagged.

So unless you have anything else to prove Tenzin > is Peak Zaheer. other than using low-ends of an earlier version. Despite that weaker version keeping up and actually blocking some of Tenzin's attacks. As well as outmanuvering him. And using the "Zaheer was dangerous before bending" excuse. As if that means he can perform as well as he did against anyone without it.

Then all that you showed proves nothing. And has no effect on my argument that post-flight Zaheer is > Tenzin.

You realize Korra as poisoned and dying when she fought Zaheer, right? Are you going to ignore that?

Are you also going to ignore how Zaheer getting flight did not amp his airbending in any way, it just enhanced his mobility? There is zero proof that getting flight resulted in his airbending becoming stronger or him getting more skilled.

I still maintain that Tenzin would stomp Pre-Void Zaheer, while Tenzin vs. Void Zaheer would be a closer fight but still result in a majority win for Tenzin. He is a superior airbender in every single way.

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CryoLancer47

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#31  Edited By CryoLancer47

@geekryan:

You realize Korra as poisoned and dying when she fought Zaheer, right? Are you going to ignore that?

I already acknowledged that Korra was poisoned. But that doesn't take away from the fact that she was in AS and Bloodlusted. And her display of power even then was better than base Korra.

Are you also going to ignore how Zaheer getting flight did not amp his airbending in any way, it just enhanced his mobility? There is zero proof that getting flight resulted in his airbending becoming stronger or him getting more skilled

That's debatable. He went from KO'ing Kya, who's already decently durable. And has far longer training with her bending in comparison to him:

KO's Kya by slamming her into a wall.
KO's Kya by slamming her into a wall.
KO's Kya with the sheer force of his airblast, no slamming required.
KO's Kya with the sheer force of his airblast, no slamming required.
Kya tanked a decent size ice attack shattering on her, as well as several other hits during her fight with Ming Hua, while remaining conscious. Ming's blows are very strong, enough that she's one shotted Mako and shattered earth/steel repeatedly, making this a very respectable feat.
Kya tanked a decent size ice attack shattering on her, as well as several other hits during her fight with Ming Hua, while remaining conscious. Ming's blows are very strong, enough that she's one shotted Mako and shattered earth/steel repeatedly, making this a very respectable feat.

To being able to knock out base Korra, someone who's pretty durable. As well as hit her pretty hard and make her fly a good distance while she was in AS and Bloodlusted:

KO's Korra by smashing her into the ground.
KO's Korra by smashing her into the ground.
Outpacing a bloodlusted (although poisoned) AS.
Outpacing a bloodlusted (although poisoned) AS.
Using airbending to reverse Korra's tackle.
Using airbending to reverse Korra's tackle.
Demonstrates excellent range and good accuracy.
Demonstrates excellent range and good accuracy.

And you can't use the "She's dying!" excuse, cause the poison didn't suddenly make Korra weak enough to the point where she'd lose to Tenzin in this state. Especially when you see how powerful she was in comparison to her base version. She even displayed far better durability to Tenzin. And the feats she performed are better than her base version. So Zaheer taking her on, and not getting negged, puts him above Tenzin. Cause if this Korra struggled to tag him. I seriously doubt Tenzin would.

I still maintain that Tenzin would stomp Pre-Void Zaheer, while Tenzin vs. Void Zaheer would be a closer fight but still result in a majority win for Tenzin. He is a superior airbender in every single way.

He can beat pre-Void. Sure. But saying he can beat Void Zaheer. Let alone take the majority, requires you to ignore the evidence above. And rely on your own opinion. As well as using a weaker version to lowball the living hell out of Peak Zaheer.

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geekryan

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CryoLancer47

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@geekryan said:

@cryolancer47: Want to CaV it then?

I have tests at the moment. Which is why I replied to post #27 two days later.

I don't have enough free time for a CaV. Sorry.

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geekryan

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@geekryan said:

@cryolancer47: Want to CaV it then?

I have tests at the moment. Which is why I replied to post #27 two days later.

I don't have enough free time for a CaV. Sorry.

Alright, we'll agree to disagree then.

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CryoLancer47

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#35  Edited By CryoLancer47

@geekryan:

Alright, we'll agree to disagree then.

I mean, not really. You're yet to actually come up with a counter to the points I made about Zaheer. So while I can't participate in a CaV. You're still to debunk/counter what I provided and said. And also prove that Tenzin is > Zaheer. Without using low-ends of a weaker version to say he beats the far better Void Zaheer. Which is still some faulty logic on your end. Who kept up with a powerful, bloodlusted AS Korra. And tagged her. Which is far better than what Tenzin showed.

Unless you can make a good case that Tenzin can replicate his feats and do as well as he did in the same situation.