AVATAR: LEAST WATERBENDER RANKING 9 (READ OP!!!)

THINGS GET HARDER FROM HERE ON.

Ming should go

Right now, Ming in terms of fighting style is amazing, and would do really well against other benders, but some of these people are overall more powerful or show more waterbending techniques. Amon has the least pure waterbending feats, but his bloodbending techniques are the best, so that's something to consider. I...really do not know who to vote for here. I'm not gonna vote yet because I want to hear what others think but uggghhh...this is so hard!

Amon, Ming Hua, or pre-fusion Unalaq. Well...this is tough lol.

Octo-arm Ming Hua is great and all, but I'm voting her out this round. I think her style relies on overwhelming her opponent, but she kinda gets exposed if someone is quick enough to keep up with her arms. She doesn't have much technique beyond them, and I think that's why Mako was able to take her out.

I'll wait to read a few arguments before I cast my official vote.

Hmm. I think it's between Unalaq and Ming-Hua. Unalaq has spiriting bending which he invented. That's pretty impressive. But Ming-Hua's bending without arms and agility is truly remarkable. Amon's bloodbending might be able to take him another round, but it's clear is water is the worst here.

This is a tough one, but I'm thinking to vote Unalaq for now. His pre fusion self restricts him a lot here

Amon should be out. His bloodbending is impressive, as are his physicals/skill, but he has like one actual waterbending feat.

Although Unalaq could also go. But I don't think Ming should be out next.

He literally combined bloodbending with chi-blocking...

Ming should out this round, Amon after and Unalaq 3rd and 1st and 2nd are a tossup honestly, based on the conditions for voting.

@viking1205: @geekryan: @chloros: @indomitableregal: @bigdreamer48: I personally think unalaq should go, even his impressive feats post fusion were still aided by him going DAS, so even if we consider post fusion unalaq was still his base ability (which I was against but I'm starting to think it was, not fully sure yet tho) , the only thing he did was waterspout (which Ming replicated for a few moments in her fight against kya) and few variety of water arm based skill, (which Ming has shown she's better at than him), the rest were in the avatar state.

He does have good skill and control tho but it's not enough to put him above the people his up against.

ADDITIONAL OBSERVATION

The more I think about it, the more I think he should have even gone before pakku because his base power(scale) that we've seen so far is still less than pakku's own, his unaided spout control was lesser or at most comparable to pakku's own, and pakku has still shown more versatility than he has (e.g utilizing different states of water and showcasing various mobility options like spouts and ramps), pakku also destroyed Fire nation tanks which IMO I think is better than any potency feat we've seen from unalaq(unaided). Pakku has also shown More precision/accuracy like the ice spike cage he used against an in-combat katara though it's worth noting that korra was more mobile than katara was in unalaq's attempt to use it against her.

@aystarr: Take this however you want, but Unalaq is more skilled than he get's credit for (also, in the first GiF, only Korra was switching in and out of AS, Unalaq didn't)...

Two first GiF's a post-fusion, but no AS

In this, Unalaq casually knock out Mako and Bolin. To be fair to them though, they were unprepared for the attack but still the amount of power was still good. Then he casually floats in on water...

To me, it seems you underrate Unalaq quite a bit.

I think Unalaq is being underrated. To me, he showed better technique and abiity in his fights against Tonraq, Mako, Bolin, and Korra than Ming Hua did at any one point.

@byondeon:

Take this however you want, but Unalaq is more skilled than he get's credit for (also, in the first GiF, only Korra was switching in and out of AS, Unalaq didn't)...

Although not in that gif, unalaq did switch alot also and doesn't an avatar who knows how to control the state require just a glow for amped moves??!

Casually breaking a large chunk of Ice (Pre-Fusion)

Using his waterspout to dodge several of Korra's fireblasts (Think this is Post-Fusion)

Blocking Mako and Bolin and pushing them back. Mako and Bolin I would say have better teamwork than 99% of the characters we have seen in the show (This is Pre-Fusion)

In this pakku

- Divides metal tanks in half using thin slices of snow, this is a far better potency feat than breaking ice from tonraq, metal>>>>> base uncharged ice this also makes for a great precision feat from pakku

- unalaq spout dodge Is impressive but doesn't compare to the multidirectional attacks from multiple firebenders that pakku was dodging, it's there and clearly visible in the showings .

- pakku also showed mass snow manipulation as he lifted almost a dozen soldiers a considerable distance from his height without even concentrating on them.

- from this, we also see pakku smack a fire nation soldier so hard with little water (much smaller than the one unalaq used) that he went out of the frame and this was whilst controlling a mobile spout and dodging multiple attacks at the same time!. I'm sure thats a better or at least comparable feat to fending the brothers.

Using snow to knock back Tonraq (who should have been higher) (Pre-Fusion)

- good but all in all, this is still a scale feat which pakku has him beat in with the mini wave he used at ba sing se.

Encasing Tonraq in water then flash freeze him (Pre-Fusion)

I don't know how this is a feat that puts him above anyone here, tonraq was already down, ming replicated a faster flash freeze against mobile Two- person opponent (not one that's down), pakku is still more versatile than him showing all and more variation than he has shown.

In this, Unalaq casually knock out Mako and Bolin. To be fair to them though, they were unprepared for the attack but still the amount of power was still good. Then he casually floats in on water...

Yeah, they were unprepared for the attack, also we don't know how much force unalaq had put on the attack or at what distance he fired it , I stand corrected on him having Less mobile options though.

To me, it seems you underrate Unalaq quite a bit.

No, he still up on my list but without "post fusion-DAS switch" mode, I just don't think he can contend with Anyone here.

I know that I didn't focus on Ming has much but she has still done almost everything he has, but

- she had matched his potency against ice and rock with her own feats of drilling through an ice ground to rescue pli and cutting through statues effortlessly.

- she has matched his versatility with her various mobile options and having control over as much states as he has e.g water, ice, snow-ice and has shown most of his skill/techniques like water arms (which she has better control of), localized freezing, water spouts and water slides and has shown she can apply them in combat.

Her only downside against him is power/scale which she has shown to work around and still comes out victorious in different scenarios.

His downside against her is her speed, I don't think generally unalaq falls way back in anything, he's above average in everything but he does tend to use smaller scale attacks and sometimes environmental ones and I see Ming being capable of working around his environmental attacks and closing in on him and I don't think he's scale advantage would be able to help him after that unless it's quite a difference like the ones korra, katara and pakku possesses. With that being said, her speed comes to play here securing her a victory.

@viking1205: @geekryan: @chloros: @indomitableregal: @bigdreamer48: @vengefulshot: Y'all, looking back at it, pakku was not justified (they're close though).

@aystarr:

Although not in that gif, unalaq did switch alot also and doesn't an avatar who knows how to control the state require just a glow for amped moves??!

Ok, so first of all, I will be that guy... It's a lot, not alot.

Unalaq wasn't in DAS, only times he was in the AS was when his eyes glows, they didn't there. This is to show the scope of Unalaq's powers without the AS...

Korra and Aang both glow when they are in the AS, and Korra just powers up an attack at a time when she stop glowing. She isn't in the AS after that.

In this:

- Divides metal tanks in half using thin slices of snow, this is a far better potency feat than breaking ice from tonraq, metal>>>>> base uncharged ice this also makes for a great precision feat from pakku

Dividing them isn't what you make it out to be. Not only was Pakku boosted in power by the moon, he only cut a small part of the tanks. If you look at the tanks, the wheels or whatever it's called (not sure what it's called in English as it's not my first language), they were only fastened at the two wheels. It would have been more impressive if he actually cut the tanks in half.

- pakku also showed mass snow manipulation as he lifted almost a dozen soldiers a considerable distance from his height without even concentrating on them.

Yes, thanks to his boost by the full moon. It's impressive. The only feat he has that can compete with the top benders is in Ba Sing Se.

- unalaq spout dodge Is impressive but doesn't compare to the multidirectional attacks from multiple firebenders that pakku was dodging, it's there and clearly visible in the showings .

So again, moon boosted. We have not seen him do something like it without moon boost. It's impressive no doubt, but being boosted by the moon makes it less impressive. Remember that when the moon spirit was killed, the waterbenders lost their powers. And the firebenders lost some of their powers during the full moon.

- from this, we also see pakku smack a fire nation soldier so hard with little water (much smaller than the one unalaq used) that he went out of the frame and this was whilst controlling a mobile spout and dodging multiple attacks at the same time!. I'm sure thats a better or at least comparable feat to fending the brothers.

Sure Pakku could have done what Unalaq did to Mako and Bolin, but comparably to this, it's not really as good:

- good but all in all, this is still a scale feat which pakku has him beat in with the mini wave he used at ba sing se.

Sure... But his feat in Ba Sing Se was not of snow but water/ice. That is also his more powerful we have seen him.

I don't know how this is a feat that puts him above anyone here, tonraq was already down, ming replicated a faster flash freeze against mobile Two- person opponent (not one that's down), pakku is still more versatile than him showing all and more variation than he has shown.

My point wasn't that it was better than Ming's feat, just one feat of flash freezing... Also, Eska and Desna was standing still the entire time after they created the large chunks of Ice. Which is kinda funny as that in scale is above what all but Unalaq, Korra and Katara have.

Yeah, they were unprepared for the attack, also we don't know how much force unalaq had put on the attack or at what distance he fired it , I stand corrected on him having Less mobile options though.

Not the best powerfeat, but scale wise it's fairly large. And the point was that he is more mobile than just water spouts.

No, he still up on my list but without "post fusion-DAS switch" mode, I just don't think he can contend with Anyone here.

He is above most here, including Ming Hua and Amon without the DAS. As we have seen from him Pre-Fusion.

I know that I didn't focus on Ming has much but she has still done almost everything he has, but

Not really.. She has a few feats only, and most are not on his level.

- she had matched his potency against ice and rock with her own feats of drilling through an ice ground to rescue pli and cutting through statues effortlessly.

Yeah... While impressive, maybe, she has drilled through Ice and Rock, not really that impressive as we have seen many things break Rock. Heck, Zuko can break Metal chains with his feets. We have seen Water cutting through stone effortlessly.

Drilling through rock is not as impressive as cutting or breaking it outright with water. Takes less effort to do.

- she has matched his versatility with her various mobile options and having control over as much states as he has e.g water, ice, snow-ice and has shown most of his skill/techniques like water arms (which she has better control of), localized freezing, water spouts and water slides and has shown she can apply them in combat.

She has her water arms, which I would argue Unalaq would counter. Also, she can't really come in close to him, as he has counters for that. Her waterspout is FAR from as potent as his. She has water slides, but she has never shown she can use ice to move around. In the North Pole and open places, she doesn't have the mobility he has. In places where the terrain are more suited for water arms/tentacles, she has better mobility. This is all about location in mobility.

He has also more power behind his attacks. He has more ways to attack her than she does. For example, she would never have been able to take out Desna/Eska as easy had it not been for them creating the large Ice field where she had the possibility for her Arms to be better suited for her mobility.

Her only downside against him is power/scale which she has shown to work around and still comes out victorious in different scenarios.

Against Kya and Desna/Eska... Who Unalaq would have beat easier. Based on what they have shown.

His downside against her is her speed, I don't think generally unalaq falls way back in anything, he's above average in everything but he does tend to use smaller scale attacks and sometimes environmental ones and I see Ming being capable of working around his environmental attacks and closing in on him and I don't think he's scale advantage would be able to help him after that unless it's quite a difference like the ones korra, katara and pakku possesses. With that being said, her speed comes to play here securing her a victory.

His speed is more than enough to actually outspeed her honestly. Also, he usually tend to not attack recklessly like Kya, Desna and Eska. He is smarter than them. Closing in on him isn't going to help her actually...

There are more feats, but I feel that you have underplayed him here.

@geekryan: @chloros: @bigdreamer48: @vengefulshot: @aystarr:

Any thought's on this one?:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/unavaatu-vs-kuvira-read-op-2089261/

The votes are too close.. Ming should go and Amon after then Unalaq.

@byondeon:

- Then don't be that guy , I'm rolling my eyes .

- but he did alternate between DAS on and off, so did korra.

- while opening the chasm was good, it's still not something that puts him over anyone here in power(bar Ming), also he was clearly concentration on a small portion of the chasm when he wanted to close it and that was a continuous attempt, so that can't be gauged. He still doesn't have superior power feat to anyone but Ming but you're not ready to have that conversation.

- Yes, thanks to his boost by the full moon. It's impressive. The only feat he has that can compete with the top benders is in Ba Sing Se.

Which unalaq hasn't shown to be above (keyword above, not less or compared)

- So again, moon boosted. We have not seen him do something like it without moon boost. It's impressive no doubt, but being boosted by the moon makes it less impressive. Remember that when the moon spirit was killed, the waterbenders lost their powers. And the firebenders lost some of their powers during the full moon.

Last time I checked, full moon only boosted power a bit, it didn't affect a benders skill, versatility control and mobility or things like reaction time and combat speed and evasion in any form (positively or negatively).

Also, the audacity to talk about pakku's full moon influence when using unalaq's post fusion feats, lol.

- Still with the irrelevant feats, how is dodging multiple fire attacks all at once while maintaining a mobile spout and still having enough reaction time and combat speed to launch powerful attacks not comparable to unalaq Vs two mid tiers that are in his Line of sight??? , or are you trying to say pakku can't create a chunk of Ice??

- like you said yourself, at this point you're just posting more feats without even trying to compare anything , more feats doesn't mean superior, mako has more feats than iroh and ozai, does that mean he's above them??. Stating his feats without relating it to others isn't going to solve or prove anything.

-

Yeah... While impressive, maybe, she has drilled through Ice and Rock, not really that impressive as we have seen many things break Rock. Heck, Zuko can break Metal chains with his feets. We have seen Water cutting through stone effortlessly.

Drilling through rock is not as impressive as cutting or breaking it outright with water. Takes less effort to do.

Youre just confirming what I'm saying here, if so many people have broken through Ice, why are you using that as a point for unalaq (where he broke tonraq's ice shield) ?, zuko breaking metal is a feat for his strength and durability not a weakness for the metal in the avatarverse. But Ming didn't drill through rock tho, she drilled through Ice, thick ice, she only cut rocks which like you said is impressive.

- pakku has manipulated snow, even in large scale,

And still on that, you haven't showed anything from unalaq that's superior to pakku's versatility and precision

She has her water arms, which I would argue Unalaq would counter. Also, she can't really come in close to him, as he has counters for that. Her waterspout is FAR from as potent as his. She has water slides, but she has never shown she can use ice to move around. In the North Pole and open places, she doesn't have the mobility he has. In places where the terrain are more suited for water arms/tentacles, she has better mobility. This is all about location in mobility.

I don't know if you mean he'll take over her arms but Ming hua is literally the queen of water arms, I would say she has the highest connection to water and control of it in the verse only rivalled by katara and Avatar State waterbenders (AS korra and DAS unalaq), I do agree with your mobility point tho but like you said it's about location so it's not really a factor, regardless, I am more inclined to see Ming utilizing a slide where there's abundance of water like the poles (like she did against kya ) than unalaq utilizing a spout where there's limited water or in constricted/occupied spaces.

- Ming has faster movement and attack than anyone he's Fought here (especially tonraq, it's not even close) and TBH including him .

@aystarr: I said I will be that guy. Because I can't stand it when I see people write alot instead of a lot...

- but he did alternate between DAS on and off, so did korra.

Literally didn't. The only time he did was when he and Korra used doubble water arms to pull eachother. Other than that, I can't remember if any other time. None that I showed was in DAS.

- while opening the chasm was good, it's still not something that puts him over anyone here in power(bar Ming),

It puts him above all but Korra and Katara...

also he was clearly concentration on a small portion of the chasm when he wanted to close it and that was a continuous attempt, so that can't be gauged.

He closed the entire thing, just enough to trap Korra. She literally couldn't get out of it. Tbf though, it took a second to close it...

It was one of the best feats we have seen in terms of water bending while not boosted by AS or DAS or full moon.

He still doesn't have superior power feat to anyone but Ming but you're not ready to have that conversation.

That feat alone is more than anyone besides Katara and Korra have shown in power.

Which unalaq hasn't shown to be above (keyword above, not less or compared)

Yes, he has. Several times actually. While fighting Korra. This is close. The best feat he has is Ba Sing Se. And btw, that is only ONE feat and it's not above anything Unalaq have shown.

Last time I checked, full moon only boosted power a bit, it didn't affect a benders skill, versatility control and mobility or things like reaction time and combat speed and evasion in any form (positively or negatively).

It's true it boost power only, and not as much as Sozins comet boost firebenders. However the things he did with the boost wasn't on Unalaq's level.

- Still with the irrelevant feats, how is dodging multiple fire attacks all at once while maintaining a mobile spout and still having enough reaction time and combat speed to launch powerful attacks not comparable to unalaq Vs two mid tiers that are in his Line of sight??? , or are you trying to say pakku can't create a chunk of Ice??

If you would actually see the fight again, you would see what point was being made. The fire blasts were literally less than seconds apart and he dodged them all. And he used his water to nearly cut Korra. She barely managed to dodge the attack. Korra is faster than anyone here. Also, Mako literally had no way of defending against the attack, and Mako is one of the fastest character we have seen. Dodging 3 fire blasts in a second. While this is not his best speed feat, it's still as good a feat as Pakku have. Pakku reacting to

- like you said yourself, at this point you're just posting more feats without even trying to compare anything , more feats doesn't mean superior, mako has more feats than iroh and ozai, does that mean he's above them??. Stating his feats without relating it to others isn't going to solve or prove anything.

I could post feats of Pakku, but you literally posted his best feat outside of the Ba Sing Se feat, which was not that great compared to Unalaq and Korra and Katara. Unalaq fighting even with Korra put him above Pakku alone. However if you would look at the actual feats I posted, you would see the scale. His spouts are more mobile than Pakku's while also being larger. His waterbending is also larger in scale and have more power behind them. I will repost them and tell you WHY they are greater than Pakku...

Youre just confirming what I'm saying here, if so many people have broken through Ice, why are you using that as a point for unalaq (where he broke tonraq's ice shield) ?, zuko breaking metal is a feat for his strength and durability not a weakness for the metal in the avatarverse. But Ming didn't drill through rock tho, she drilled through Ice, thick ice, she only cut rocks which like you said is impressive.

There is rock beneath the ice in the North Pole... Now that I look at it again, it was a thin layer of ice... Not that impressive at all (the drill thing was cool)... I stand corrected. That actually makes it less impressive.

The point of Unalaq breaking the ice wasn't to show breaking through ice is in any way the hardest thing to do. What is hard is breaking through ice without the attack stopping. You have literally not seen anyone do that before. When you break ice, the attacks stop dead in their tracks.

- pakku has manipulated snow, even in large scale,

If that is large scale, then honestly, large scale in the Avatar verse is not impressive in the slightest.

And still on that, you haven't showed anything from unalaq that's superior to pakku's versatility and precision

Pakku don't have versatility. All he has is water, snow and ice. Literally fodder benders all have that. While he is better at using them and he can use a spout and cut things, his versatility isn't nearly close to Unalaq's. And Unalaq's precision is literally more impressive than Pakku's.

The only really impressive here is the ice slide and the ice spikes that traps Katara. And possibly the ice pillar. Other than that, it's basic waterbending. In the beginning, he trapped her, but I wouldn't say that is impressive in the slightest. You can't say that that fight was even remotely close to what Unalaq vs Korra was.

I don't know if you mean he'll take over her arms but Ming hua is literally the queen of water arms, I would say she has the highest connection to water and control of it in the verse only rivalled by katara and Avatar State waterbenders (AS korra and DAS unalaq),

I know Ming Hua is literally the Queen of water arms. However what I mean is that it's not something that Unalaq can't deal with. Besides, I don't think that she has a greater connection to water than many waterbenders. I would say Unalaq, Korra, Katara are above her. No AS needed either.

I do agree with your mobility point tho but like you said it's about location so it's not really a factor, regardless, I am more inclined to see Ming utilizing a slide where there's abundance of water like the poles (like she did against kya ) than unalaq utilizing a spout where there's limited water or in constricted/occupied spaces.

Unalaq would use a slide in tight spaces, while spout in open areas. Ming Hua would mostly only have the advantage in places like a forest or like in the prison where she was held where she can grab places with her arm and swing herself. Unalaq have mobility in 85% of the places... Location is key and Unalaq have more places to utilize his mobility and more ways to do it.

- Ming has faster movement and attack than anyone he's Fought here (especially tonraq, it's not even close) and TBH including him .

Definitely not the fastest. All that are left are faster than her in movement and attacks.

Here are some feats that I will explain a bit more...

It's not uncharacteristic of her to try to get in close, which even Kya can deal with. Though she beat Kya in the end.

There are more things I could add but this will do for now.

@aystarr: Oh, and one more thing, which technically have nothing to do with what we argued, but it might depending on how you see it.

I think this guys should be allowed...

I forgot all about this thread XD. But if i'm being honest I would have to say Ming. She is amazing, but Unalaq gets props for holding his own against both Mako and Bolin, something Ming could never do, especially since she lost to Mako.

@byondeon: Pakku was only toying with Katara in that fight

IF YOU HAVENT VOTED, VOTE NOW!

TIE-BREAKER !!!

@aystarr: Voted pre-fusion Unalaq.

Didn't expect Ming Hua to leave now tbh. I'll have her close to the top 3.

@viking1205:

The votes were really scattered, I doubt it'll be the same outcome if it was between the two of them.

@matbezlima: Those are literally his best feats. You can't say that he is above Unalaq when he has not shown anything that would put him above Unalaq.

@byondeon: I didn't say that he is above Unalaq. I agree that he isn't. My point is just that Pakku must be significantly better than what we saw

@matbezlima: How though..?

TIE-BREAKER!

Ming should out, then Amon should out, then Unalaq then Katara then Korra...

Ofc he is, he didn't have as much screen time as the others here.

@aystarr: But you can't say he is better than he has been shown to be...

@byondeon: He is considered the gratest waterbending master in the North Pole. Certainly the most respected. He surely must be great.

Never said he wasn't good. But what he has shown is the best he can do... That is why they showed him like that. Because he can't do better than what we have seen.

You are talking about Unalaq...

Also, how the F**K does Unalaq have 33% of the votes...?

@byondeon: I’m pretty sure in atla, Pakku was said to be the #1 water bending master in the world at one point (maybe not during the show but at some point he was) but I can’t remember exactly so I might be wrong about the exact phrasing.

Until season 2 Katara that is...

Also, he isn't really that good compared to Unalaq, Korra and Katara.

See how the tables have turned .

The lowballing is real, katara didn't get better than him until like mid-S3.

@aystarr: Yes, she did get better than him in season 2. Pakku didn't do anything that would put him above Season 2 Katara.

Let's face it, those voting Unalaq have not seen season 2 of Korra. As he literally matched Korra in AS.

when is the next round?

Probably in 1-2 days Time

it would have come yesterday but there was a tie so it was prolonged

You're removing the context, he needed AS to even match base korra.

unrelated but is your d.p quasar?

@aystarr: Only time he was in the AS was at the beginning, and when they had their Tug O War... Other than that, he was base while Korra was in and out of AS.

I assume you mean my profile pic, and yes, though it is Phyla-Vell from EMH cartoon, in which she went by the moniker Quasar as Wendell wasn't in the show...

Don't know why people are voting out Unalaq as he is literally above both Ming and Amon together

@byondeon:

I assume you mean my profile pic, and yes, though it is Phyla-Vell from EMH cartoon, in which she went by the moniker Quasar as Wendell wasn't in the show...

D.p - display picture

Yeah, I remember wanting her powers so bad watching EMH when I was younger, lol.

Unalaq being out now is a pretty high low ball tbh, but at least Ming is out next round.