Arthur Morgan or John Marston? (RDR2 SPOILERS)

Author had so much more swagger and character development.

I don't know why, but during the epilogue I felt more sorry for John than I did for Arthur...

Arthur by a decent margin, especially if you're an honourable outlaw.

I was in shock when Micah shot me in the face, I just stared at the screen

I wasn't... I was by every definition a serial killer in the game lol

John, he's the reason Arthur became that man during the end.

Arthur is probably the most complex and well-written protagonist in gaming.

Yeah, but I was so invested in Arthur, like how his character developed into someone who wanted to do the right thing and redeem himself before his inevitable death.

I know he's a killer, but I still felt for him. Dutch raised and manipulated him, "I gave you all I had".

Arthur

@michaelbn: John isn't the reason why Arthur became a better man. Looking back at his own mistakes is what changed Arthur.

I got the same ending, and although it was pretty shocking, I think it was kind of badass in its own way. Arthur got the final word on Micah, “Damn us both!” He got Micah to realize that he was better than him. Plus it sort of fits in with the live by the gun, die by the gun attitude that Arthur has.

As a character? John. While Arthur's game was better than John's game and he had a better story, as a character, John had a lot more character development. I like them both equally though. There's no one above the other.

@emperorb777: No, that sickness just helped him see more clearly. He said that several times. Knowing his death would happen soon really made him reflect and decide he didn't wanna die the terrible man he once was.

@rogueshadow: I don't see what's so complex about him. He's well written for sure but nothing about him is complex.

@kanyecosby: I just found it too annoying to play as a full on outlaw. You get high bounties (or wanted dead or alive) that make it impossible to roam without being attacked.

@batmanplusjay: Prior to Arthur getting sick he had already started to reflect on his life and decisions. It's why he started to question Dutch more and more. If you talk to one of the girls before leaving Valentine camp, he actually talks about choices he's made.

@king-ragnar: It’s really annoying, but it’s so hard to resist being a criminal in the game. I was pretty much a psychopath in that game lol.

Arthur by a landslide

I was also honorable as hell

@emperorb777: He questioned Dutch because Dutch kept f**kin up. None of his plans worked. Everyone questioned Dutch. He really started to question himself after he realized he was sick. Arthur always knew he was crazy, but it wasn't until then he tried to change that.

His disillusionment with Dutch after having essentially been indoctrinated by a snake-oil salesman, strong implications that he has always known the proper moral path but let his loyalty to Dutch clouded it. Subsequent clarity afforded by his illness and circumstance that finally let him see through it and reawakened his moral sensibilities that likely died along with his child years before, along with events that transpired resulting in him seeking redemption through the happiness of the Marston family. It's all compelling, character-driven stuff, the choices he makes say a lot about him. What we see as the game goes on is several characters with their backs against the walls and it shines a light on what really matters to them, and who they really are when left with nowhere to turn. This was revealed for John, Arthur and Dutch alike. All three are extremely compelling. Dutch is the most complex of the three.

@rogueshadow: But that's not complicated. It's just that Arthur lived life the way he was raised to live it, as an outlaw. And later in life, after becoming sick he realizes there's more to life than he initially thought. It wasn't all bad, there's some beauty in it. And he and John both regret their blind loyalty to Dutch they had for so long. So he decided to change his ways and at least try to change for the better, try to grow as a person and redeem himself. Or at least try to. And his biggest step in redemption, like you said, was seeing to it that John and his family escaped.

Which honestly is a GREAT character design. But it's not "complex". Someone who's complex, at least to me, is someone who is hard to understand(their character takes a lot of thought to piece together). But maybe my definition of a complex character is wrong.

When I use the term complex I mean layered and well constructed, but I might have been misusing the term in hindsight.

Loving this discussion!

Seriously though, I don't think I've ever been this emotionally affected from a video game before.

@kanyecosby: Yeah, looking back those are some badass last words

@batmanplusjay: a complex character isn’t someone hard to understand, they’re essentially a dynamic/round individual

They react believably to events around them, undergo a change in personality (either good or bad) from beginning to the end of their story. And, above all things, they tend to show a wide range of emotions. They don’t react the same way depending on the situation that they’re put in.

Essentially, you can’t take Arthur at face value of being just the dumb muscle of a gang of outlaws (I.e. a simple character), he’s much more than that

I got you.